What main named are considered too hard for a pally to survive.

hawsecav19d · 01-29-2007, 05:22 AM

Going thru to get access for deathtoll right now guild is tank heavy so we normally have 3 Pally on raids MT is a Pal thats got claymore almost finished about 80% fabled, nodrop. We normally run 3-5 plate tanks only a couple are speced to tank others are going dps lines and 2-3 brawlers 6-7healers 3 regen rest dps. We have a couple good geared gaurdians but normally use our Pally, we have been killing Labs and Lyceum running a Pally as MT and normally wipeing once or twice a zone. Tis more normally lack of DPS then the tank as far as we are concered. What raid mobs should we switch the gaurdian in for the pally? I love my pally came in 8th on dps and 5th on heals last raid runs but from all the things that are said about what we need changed to our class to get them even with gaurdians I would like to know what mobs would be better off tanked by a gaurdian then us? We pretty much feel we can complete anything atm long as we have enough dps along, keeping the our MT Pal alive doesnt seem to hard most time. When will we have to switch out to gaurdian?

therodge · 01-29-2007, 08:23 AM

its really up to you if your paladin is better geared then the guardian then it really wont matter the paladin will still be better until the guardians outfitted for the raid, but from what i can tell cheldrek seems o be the cutoff might wanna send a pm to phov hes a high end raider and could answer this better then i can.

PolarBear77 · 01-29-2007, 11:21 AM

Paladins can tank anythign KoS.. Chel is alittle hairy at first but after the debuffs are on it is cake...and as far as matron she never lives long enough to hit me :smileywink: oops did i say that ?

Message Edited by PolarBear77 on 01-28-2007 10:22 PM

khufure · 01-30-2007, 12:34 AM

PolarBear77 wrote:

Paladins can tank anythign KoS.. Chel is alittle hairy at first but after the debuffs are on it is cake...and as far as matron she never lives long enough to hit me :smileywink: oops did i say that ?
Message Edited by PolarBear77 on 01-28-2007 10:22 PM

If using a miracle (Marr's immunity) a paladin should be able to tank most anything. The question is, why? Guardians are built for tanking. They debuff and put hate on the mob just by getting hit, not by hitting. Then they have 2x non-miracle stoneskins and reinforcement. And if things get really hairy they can throw up a miracle.

Bladewind · 01-30-2007, 03:25 AM

Last I checked, all fighters were 'built for tanking.'

khufure · 01-30-2007, 06:37 AM

Bladewind wrote:
Last I checked, all fighters were 'built for tanking.'

Last I checked Bush just now admitted there may be cause for concern in Iraq. Any fighter can tank any instance and most raid mobs. But when you get down to looking at the CA and buffs, Warriors are better for tanking and Crusaders (especially Paladin) are better for assist tanking or OT. Why?- Temporary mitigation buffs (both classes).- Built-in debuffs against attack speed or dps.- Stoneskin.- Snap aggro (reinforcement etc.)Play a healer in a raid if you want to see for yourself. Or look at the ACT parses of zones, compare crusader vs. warrior. You will see a big difference. Maybe it won't make a big difference on farming zones but if you are trying to beat a mob for the first time you will be glad to have the better tank.

hawsecav19d · 01-30-2007, 06:54 AM

And back to the original question what mob would that be?

Mgunner · 01-30-2007, 10:07 AM

A pally can tank anything in KoS. Even Chel'drak if you survive past the first 20 seconds. It's in EoF that it gets very dicey outside CMF or the first couple named in FTH. After that, survival is based on how well geared you are, adornments, etc, and how good your healers are.

IMO

khufure · 01-31-2007, 01:22 AM

hawsecav19d wrote:
And back to the original question what mob would that be?

I have not heard of any Paladin beating Chel'Drak, Mayong, Wuoshi, or Matron from start to finish.

PolarBear77 · 01-31-2007, 09:24 PM

I have not heard of any Paladin beating Chel'Drak, Mayong, Wuoshi, or Matron from start to finish.

I have tanked and killed Chel'Drak and about 99% sure i could tank Mayong he dsoesn't hit for spike to often, just witht the debuff.

Anariale · 02-02-2007, 03:42 AM

At the same time, Im sure Mahgnus has gear that the rest of us dream of... not to mention his guild has gear that only the best of the best guilds have.

While a Paladin can tank anything at the end of a tier, a Warrior can tank this stuff much sooner into a tier. There is still a discrepancy.

W

Fatuus · 02-02-2007, 08:49 PM

Personally,

I have tanked every named instance encounter in KoS save for Chel'drak, Crucor, or Vilucid. I think that post EoF updates 1 mob for SURE you don't want to tank as a paladin is Vilucid. There is no reliable aggro generating method available for the paladin that entire fight anymore with the brigand nerf. I haven't tanked Chel'drak or Crucor yet...but seen it done and believe that it COULD be done by a paladin.

EoF...haven't seen anything yet that couldn't be tanked by a paladin yet...save for the tactician in MMIS...but thats for a different reason. We aren't the top raiding guild on our server but have beaten about 50% of the EoF raid content so far.

HOWEVER.....

Would I want to choose a paladin to be the raid MT OVER a guardian on 99.9% of these fights.....HECK NO. Survivability is a huge factor with the changes and we simply don't have it ON PULLS. I tanked and killed one of the amphorous drake split mobs (the Virulent one) the other day successfully on the split because just prior to the split I burned both my Marr's Barrier and Marr's Blessing (to increase my parry 5%) on the fight. The marrs barrier in 10 seconds intercepted 30k worth of damage. NO HEALER can keep up with that kind of inital spike damage when you are 2 tanking unless the mob is signifigantly debuffed. Forget Guardian debuffs...the big things guardians have are their 2 stoneskins they can use against physical damage (Tower of Stone and Stone Sphere). Used properly they give the healers the critical 6 seconds they need to debuff the mobs to a more managable dps lvl.

As far as uses for raiding.......there are virtually none IMO. I have retired my paladin for the most part and am more focused on other alts I have for raiding which bring more to the raid force. A paladin can still do a decent job as the OT...but then again so can just about any other fighter class as well.

01-30-2007, 12:34 AM	#4
khufure Lord Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 649	PolarBear77 wrote: Paladins can tank anythign KoS.. Chel is alittle hairy at first but after the debuffs are on it is cake...and as far as matron she never lives long enough to hit me :smileywink: oops did i say that ? Message Edited by PolarBear77 on 01-28-2007 10:22 PM If using a miracle (Marr's immunity) a paladin should be able to tank most anything. The question is, why? Guardians are built for tanking. They debuff and put hate on the mob just by getting hit, not by hitting. Then they have 2x non-miracle stoneskins and reinforcement. And if things get really hairy they can throw up a miracle.

01-30-2007, 03:25 AM	#5
Bladewind Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 783	Last I checked, all fighters were 'built for tanking.' __________________

01-30-2007, 06:37 AM	#6
khufure Lord Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 649	Bladewind wrote: Last I checked, all fighters were 'built for tanking.' Last I checked Bush just now admitted there may be cause for concern in Iraq. Any fighter can tank any instance and most raid mobs. But when you get down to looking at the CA and buffs, Warriors are better for tanking and Crusaders (especially Paladin) are better for assist tanking or OT. Why?- Temporary mitigation buffs (both classes).- Built-in debuffs against attack speed or dps.- Stoneskin.- Snap aggro (reinforcement etc.)Play a healer in a raid if you want to see for yourself. Or look at the ACT parses of zones, compare crusader vs. warrior. You will see a big difference. Maybe it won't make a big difference on farming zones but if you are trying to beat a mob for the first time you will be glad to have the better tank.

01-30-2007, 10:07 AM	#8
Mgunner Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 225	A pally can tank anything in KoS. Even Chel'drak if you survive past the first 20 seconds. It's in EoF that it gets very dicey outside CMF or the first couple named in FTH. After that, survival is based on how well geared you are, adornments, etc, and how good your healers are. IMO __________________

01-31-2007, 01:22 AM	#9
khufure Lord Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 649	hawsecav19d wrote: And back to the original question what mob would that be? I have not heard of any Paladin beating Chel'Drak, Mayong, Wuoshi, or Matron from start to finish.

01-29-2007, 05:22 AM	#1
hawsecav19d Loremaster Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 134	Going thru to get access for deathtoll right now guild is tank heavy so we normally have 3 Pally on raids MT is a Pal thats got claymore almost finished about 80% fabled, nodrop. We normally run 3-5 plate tanks only a couple are speced to tank others are going dps lines and 2-3 brawlers 6-7healers 3 regen rest dps. We have a couple good geared gaurdians but normally use our Pally, we have been killing Labs and Lyceum running a Pally as MT and normally wipeing once or twice a zone. Tis more normally lack of DPS then the tank as far as we are concered. What raid mobs should we switch the gaurdian in for the pally? I love my pally came in 8th on dps and 5th on heals last raid runs but from all the things that are said about what we need changed to our class to get them even with gaurdians I would like to know what mobs would be better off tanked by a gaurdian then us? We pretty much feel we can complete anything atm long as we have enough dps along, keeping the our MT Pal alive doesnt seem to hard most time. When will we have to switch out to gaurdian?

01-29-2007, 08:23 AM	#2
therodge Loremaster Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 824	its really up to you if your paladin is better geared then the guardian then it really wont matter the paladin will still be better until the guardians outfitted for the raid, but from what i can tell cheldrek seems o be the cutoff might wanna send a pm to phov hes a high end raider and could answer this better then i can.

01-29-2007, 11:21 AM	#3
PolarBear77 Loremaster Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 59	Paladins can tank anythign KoS.. Chel is alittle hairy at first but after the debuffs are on it is cake...and as far as matron she never lives long enough to hit me :smileywink: oops did i say that ? Message Edited by PolarBear77 on 01-28-2007 10:22 PM

01-30-2007, 06:54 AM	#7
hawsecav19d Loremaster Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 134	And back to the original question what mob would that be?

01-31-2007, 09:24 PM	#10
PolarBear77 Loremaster Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 59	I have not heard of any Paladin beating Chel'Drak, Mayong, Wuoshi, or Matron from start to finish. I have tanked and killed Chel'Drak and about 99% sure i could tank Mayong he dsoesn't hit for spike to often, just witht the debuff.

02-02-2007, 03:42 AM	#11
Anariale Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 476	At the same time, Im sure Mahgnus has gear that the rest of us dream of... not to mention his guild has gear that only the best of the best guilds have. While a Paladin can tank anything at the end of a tier, a Warrior can tank this stuff much sooner into a tier. There is still a discrepancy. W __________________ Wyrd, 80 Paladin - ex-Ghosts of War, Permafrost Darton, 70 Guardian (was stolen) Permafrost

02-02-2007, 08:49 PM	#12
Fatuus Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 315	Personally, I have tanked every named instance encounter in KoS save for Chel'drak, Crucor, or Vilucid. I think that post EoF updates 1 mob for SURE you don't want to tank as a paladin is Vilucid. There is no reliable aggro generating method available for the paladin that entire fight anymore with the brigand nerf. I haven't tanked Chel'drak or Crucor yet...but seen it done and believe that it COULD be done by a paladin. EoF...haven't seen anything yet that couldn't be tanked by a paladin yet...save for the tactician in MMIS...but thats for a different reason. We aren't the top raiding guild on our server but have beaten about 50% of the EoF raid content so far. HOWEVER..... Would I want to choose a paladin to be the raid MT OVER a guardian on 99.9% of these fights.....HECK NO. Survivability is a huge factor with the changes and we simply don't have it ON PULLS. I tanked and killed one of the amphorous drake split mobs (the Virulent one) the other day successfully on the split because just prior to the split I burned both my Marr's Barrier and Marr's Blessing (to increase my parry 5%) on the fight. The marrs barrier in 10 seconds intercepted 30k worth of damage. NO HEALER can keep up with that kind of inital spike damage when you are 2 tanking unless the mob is signifigantly debuffed. Forget Guardian debuffs...the big things guardians have are their 2 stoneskins they can use against physical damage (Tower of Stone and Stone Sphere). Used properly they give the healers the critical 6 seconds they need to debuff the mobs to a more managable dps lvl. As far as uses for raiding.......there are virtually none IMO. I have retired my paladin for the most part and am more focused on other alts I have for raiding which bring more to the raid force. A paladin can still do a decent job as the OT...but then again so can just about any other fighter class as well. __________________