So what do you think about the stat cap increase in EOF?

madha · 10-26-2006, 06:05 PM

Will be get a boost or not? Becasue right now im over 4k self buffed they new diminished return point. Will I surviive better or not during raids?

The focus change sounds nice maybe i can self heal alittle when MTing,

I just want to know after the change will all tanks become = as far as raid tanking? I would love to see a monk MT a raid mob=P. Becasue Frankly guardians are dam drama queens, well all the ones ive ever raided with..

And will stuff that adds + deffence ever increase mit again the avoidance thing is stupid unless they can realy fix avoidence with epics. And are shields ever going to absorb some damage why does my avoidance go up when im carring this big [Removed for Content] tower sheild? I get up to high 60ish% avoidance in defensive with a sheild. makes no sence. Our defensice stance used to add a bunch of mit but with that +deffensie i dont like it as much.

But who knows maybe after the stat changes and the days off omg pure mit rules the day will be over and our ubber wisdom and all around better attitudes will let us tank epic named..

If not im rolling a Fae guardian and im gonna start Mting casue people who dont play crusaders are whinny cry babies =P..

Boethius_Permafrost · 10-26-2006, 06:36 PM

Did you just say it makes no sense that you can block attacks using a shield? SMILEY

RaistNA · 10-26-2006, 06:42 PM

spell check ftw.

Anyways i think i know what ur trying to say....lets see if im right.

madhatr wrote:

Will be get a boost or not? Becasue right now im over 4k self buffed they new diminished return point. Will I surviive better or not during raids? Im going to assume ur talking about power. From what iv heard our power will be higher...how thatll help u survive better in raids im not sure...

The focus change sounds nice maybe i can self heal alittle when MTing,

I just want to know after the change will all tanks become = as far as raid tanking? I would love to see a monk MT a raid mob=P. Becasue Frankly guardians are dam drama queens, well all the ones ive ever raided with.. I have heard that they are making brawler tanks, crusaders for that matter, a little better. But they have promised that with every expansion, dont hold ur breath on it.

And will stuff that adds + deffence ever increase mit again the avoidance thing is stupid unless they can realy fix avoidence with epics. And are shields ever going to absorb some damage why does my avoidance go up when im carring this big [Removed for Content] tower sheild? I get up to high 60ish% avoidance in defensive with a sheild. makes no sence. Our defensice stance used to add a bunch of mit but with that +deffensie i dont like it as much. The shield helps avoidance, like it should. A shield wont work as armor, never has, never will, which is good. Shields help you AVOID hits, not absorb them. When you say ur in the high 60ish% avoidance, that is in a MT group for a raid right? Cause im one of the higher self buffed avoidance pallys out there and mine is only 53% self buffed. Most sit around 49-51

But who knows maybe after the stat changes and the days off omg pure mit rules the day will be over and our ubber wisdom and all around better attitudes will let us tank epic named.. What the changes to wis will do is allow us to 1) get higher resists 2) get more power. Since their fixing capping, we wont cap out str and stop benefiting from wis, we will again benefit from both.

If not im rolling a Fae guardian and im gonna start Mting casue people who dont play crusaders are whinny cry babies =P..

PolarBear77 · 10-26-2006, 06:59 PM

RaistNA wrote:

spell check ftw.

The shield helps avoidance, like it should. A shield wont work as armor, never has, never will, which is good. Shields help you AVOID hits, not absorb them. When you say ur in the high 60ish% avoidance, that is in a MT group for a raid right? Cause im one of the higher self buffed avoidance pallys out there and mine is only 53% self buffed. Most sit around 49-51

Shhhhhooooooooooooot 49-51 avoidance

Mine is like 44% in defence stance with a shield :smileysad: i just block the punches with my face ... : you know ... like Rocky :smileyvery-happy:

holypaladin28 · 10-26-2006, 08:28 PM

what about the INT cap i use that for my spell crits and spell heals. im hoping that will had to my dps.

my refusal of conviction or what ever its called right now says it will do 700-1000 but i crit for around 1400 alot

the bad thing about a pally is we can activaly use STR STA AGI INT WIS if you think about it

STR for melee

STA for life

WIS for power and resist

AGI for avoid (i dont really pay attention to this stat)

INT for spell damage.

so i think it will still be hard for a pallyto take advantage of the stat caps unless you say screw one and go with the other and if i had to do that i would say STR INT and WIS as the three most importent

Half-Rack · 10-26-2006, 11:07 PM

I agree that us Paladins can activly use all the stats, and of cource it would be interesting if we had max stats all the time, but I find that what my role is at the moment determins what stats I focus on. If I am in a raid not tanking, then I cap out STR and INT, if I am tanking, then STA, WIS.. and I carry around at least 2 full sets of different armor for the roles that we can play (and of cource, a bazillion pieces of resist gear). And with the stat cap I will continue to do that kind of thing I think. However, the thing that I am worried about is this: Say at max int (510) right now we do say 700-1100 dmg with refusal of conviction (I know this is not the correct number, but I am at work and can't check).. so at max INT we do that dmg.. with the new stat cap, will I do 700-1100 dmg with 510 int? or will I have to get to the new stat cap (can't remember what it is off the top of my head, like 1050 I think) to do the same damage? or will I be doing like half the damage because I am at half the int cap? I am just kinda hoping that this is not a giant DPS nurf to spells and such because the cap is changing.. Am I making any sence at all? Or has anyone heard anything about this? -Jadara, Lvl 70 Paladin Oasis, Vindication

Geekyone · 10-26-2006, 11:30 PM

I look forward to it.

holypaladin28 · 10-26-2006, 11:52 PM

no the spell damage would stay the same but if you added more to the cap say from 510 to 900 you would see an increase in DPS

Illustrious · 10-27-2006, 02:08 AM

Seen as Crusaders will not be capping any stat, that will surely mean that they will most likely be in the "sweet" spot for most of the stats purely due to the diminishing returns as stats get closer to the cap?

Im not a crusader but am thinking they will be one of the winners from the changes because of just that.

holypaladin28 · 10-27-2006, 02:43 AM

thats what ui thin as well lets be honest as pallys we can not cap all the stats we need and because of that we will see a better return on what we do by balancing

great answer

redi · 10-27-2006, 01:38 PM

Imho it is easier for Paladins to cap stats than for any other class:in standard raid set up i am capped with every stat xcept int and even have a lot more str and sta then i could ever use(till now) only thing that'll make it hard is agility, which can be dealt with potions and so on. plus we have natural higher resists against magic damage, which will put us in the number 1 spot for ot. personally, i like the stat increase

RaistNA · 10-27-2006, 06:45 PM

these stat changes could also mean higher hp then we have ever seen, and certainly higher power then ever too.

madha · 10-28-2006, 06:04 AM

So sorry about the spelling errors thought i had auto spell check.. must be thinking of my email again..

what i was bugging about is the fact that +defense doesn't increase my mitigation, i can use a 2 hander and have the same MIT And my % chance to avoid only increases a few %. Didn't + deffence used to increase your overall mitigation?

And most epic mobs blast through your avoidance like butter..

I must be getting old i swore sheilds and + defence items raised your mit, but I have been told im special..

Sorry for the confusion just old age setting in..

redi · 10-28-2006, 03:32 PM

+defense raises avoidance, with fabled t7 towershield round bout 10%

EvilIguana9 · 10-29-2006, 01:44 AM

Statwise, non raiding crusaders will likely be seeing some noticable gains since we have a lot of uncapped stats. Focus helping us cast through stuns will definitely be a welcome addition, and we can now see benefits from improved casting stats (I might possibly even be convinced to respec back to the wisdom AA line). There is, however, going to be an across the board avoidance nerf that could very well put a big dent in the abilities of frequent soloers, but that is going to be spread over all the fighters so we aren't losing ground as group tanks. As far as mitigation is concerned, I'm not entirely convinced the changes will be good for us. Currently many warriors, guards especially, can raise their mitigation considerably past the existing cap. The cap is being pushed way up, so it's conceivably possible that the mitigation gap between warriors and crusaders could actually increase, at least at the very high end. Well equipped paladins pushing 6000 mit will be mitigating considerably less after the patch, but warriors can add significant amounts of mit beyond that, meaning that they may end up with the same or even better mitigation than they had before the patch.

JarredDarque · 11-03-2006, 10:55 AM

Is that 6k mit solo? or grouped? I am at 5177 solo atm

I think when it comes to stats, we will benefit, but will suffer from mitigation, however, I am going to have to wait till it is live to see how badly it hurts my mit. my 5177 is like 72.3% or something, I fear it will drop closer to 50-55% after patch. Avoid is 52% right now.

MeridianR · 11-03-2006, 06:18 PM

The max mitigation a Paladin can get solo is around 5525 or something (not including crap items such as Light Chitin Rings, Aviak Feather Charms, Cuirass of Protection), so there is no way that 6k is solo SMILEY

Mine is 5407 self buffed on live, but it will be lower when beta comes around.....(and remember this is adding another ear slot) - my hp on the other hand is 8600 on live. (This stays about the same, or so I hear)Raid Buffed (with a Defiler / Templar) I was over 13k HP and about 6100 Mitigation.....what I am kinda interested in seeing is now the viability of a Mystic buffing the MT since Stamina isn't so easily capped....as it stood now, a Mystic did nothing for me except for there raw HP buff, since I can self cap stamina easily, come the combat changes this isn't going to be possible, and 700+ stamina might be pretty [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] good....just remember come EoF mitigation will not mean as much, so base your gear selections around other more important things SMILEY

RaistNA · 11-04-2006, 07:48 PM

MeridianR wrote:...just remember come EoF mitigation will not mean as much, so base your gear selections around other more important things

Hi id like u to meet my little friend, i call him avoidance.

Silverpaws · 11-05-2006, 10:31 PM

MeridianR wrote:The max mitigation a Paladin can get solo is around 5525 or something (not including crap items such as Light Chitin Rings, Aviak Feather Charms, Cuirass of Protection), so there is no way that 6k is solo Mine is 5407 self buffed on live, but it will be lower when beta comes around.....(and remember this is adding another ear slot) - my hp on the other hand is 8600 on live. (This stays about the same, or so I hear)Raid Buffed (with a Defiler / Templar) I was over 13k HP and about 6100 Mitigation.....what I am kinda interested in seeing is now the viability of a Mystic buffing the MT since Stamina isn't so easily capped....as it stood now, a Mystic did nothing for me except for there raw HP buff, since I can self cap stamina easily, come the combat changes this isn't going to be possible, and 700+ stamina might be pretty [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] good....just remember come EoF mitigation will not mean as much, so base your gear selections around other more important things

Curiass of protection only adds 2 points of mitigation on beta versus the Chestplate of Fiery Might. Reason, curiass is legendary, and carries less innate mitigation. Fabled items carry more.I went from upper 60% on live to mid 50% on beta, semi fabled. Those fabled will see a bigger difference in their mit changes, than those in crafted or legdendary. The gap is smaller, but each point means more now. You wont see the huge 15% difference from legdendary geared players to fabled geared players, but your actual ability to mitigate will not change. Hope that makes sense... not enough coffee yet..

Message Edited by Silverpaws on 11-05-2006 11:33 AM

10-26-2006, 06:42 PM	#3
RaistNA Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 118	spell check ftw. Anyways i think i know what ur trying to say....lets see if im right. madhatr wrote: Will be get a boost or not? Becasue right now im over 4k self buffed they new diminished return point. Will I surviive better or not during raids? Im going to assume ur talking about power. From what iv heard our power will be higher...how thatll help u survive better in raids im not sure... The focus change sounds nice maybe i can self heal alittle when MTing, I just want to know after the change will all tanks become = as far as raid tanking? I would love to see a monk MT a raid mob=P. Becasue Frankly guardians are dam drama queens, well all the ones ive ever raided with.. I have heard that they are making brawler tanks, crusaders for that matter, a little better. But they have promised that with every expansion, dont hold ur breath on it. And will stuff that adds + deffence ever increase mit again the avoidance thing is stupid unless they can realy fix avoidence with epics. And are shields ever going to absorb some damage why does my avoidance go up when im carring this big [Removed for Content] tower sheild? I get up to high 60ish% avoidance in defensive with a sheild. makes no sence. Our defensice stance used to add a bunch of mit but with that +deffensie i dont like it as much. The shield helps avoidance, like it should. A shield wont work as armor, never has, never will, which is good. Shields help you AVOID hits, not absorb them. When you say ur in the high 60ish% avoidance, that is in a MT group for a raid right? Cause im one of the higher self buffed avoidance pallys out there and mine is only 53% self buffed. Most sit around 49-51 But who knows maybe after the stat changes and the days off omg pure mit rules the day will be over and our ubber wisdom and all around better attitudes will let us tank epic named.. What the changes to wis will do is allow us to 1) get higher resists 2) get more power. Since their fixing capping, we wont cap out str and stop benefiting from wis, we will again benefit from both. If not im rolling a Fae guardian and im gonna start Mting casue people who dont play crusaders are whinny cry babies =P..

10-26-2006, 06:59 PM	#4
PolarBear77 Loremaster Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 59	RaistNA wrote: spell check ftw. The shield helps avoidance, like it should. A shield wont work as armor, never has, never will, which is good. Shields help you AVOID hits, not absorb them. When you say ur in the high 60ish% avoidance, that is in a MT group for a raid right? Cause im one of the higher self buffed avoidance pallys out there and mine is only 53% self buffed. Most sit around 49-51 Shhhhhooooooooooooot 49-51 avoidance Mine is like 44% in defence stance with a shield :smileysad: i just block the punches with my face ... : you know ... like Rocky :smileyvery-happy:

10-26-2006, 11:30 PM	#7
Geekyone Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 236	I look forward to it. __________________ Kittik

10-27-2006, 01:38 PM	#11
redi General Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 75	Imho it is easier for Paladins to cap stats than for any other class:in standard raid set up i am capped with every stat xcept int and even have a lot more str and sta then i could ever use(till now) only thing that'll make it hard is agility, which can be dealt with potions and so on. plus we have natural higher resists against magic damage, which will put us in the number 1 spot for ot. personally, i like the stat increase __________________

10-28-2006, 03:32 PM	#14
redi General Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 75	+defense raises avoidance, with fabled t7 towershield round bout 10% __________________

10-26-2006, 06:05 PM	#1
madha General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 666	Will be get a boost or not? Becasue right now im over 4k self buffed they new diminished return point. Will I surviive better or not during raids? The focus change sounds nice maybe i can self heal alittle when MTing, I just want to know after the change will all tanks become = as far as raid tanking? I would love to see a monk MT a raid mob=P. Becasue Frankly guardians are dam drama queens, well all the ones ive ever raided with.. And will stuff that adds + deffence ever increase mit again the avoidance thing is stupid unless they can realy fix avoidence with epics. And are shields ever going to absorb some damage why does my avoidance go up when im carring this big [Removed for Content] tower sheild? I get up to high 60ish% avoidance in defensive with a sheild. makes no sence. Our defensice stance used to add a bunch of mit but with that +deffensie i dont like it as much. But who knows maybe after the stat changes and the days off omg pure mit rules the day will be over and our ubber wisdom and all around better attitudes will let us tank epic named.. If not im rolling a Fae guardian and im gonna start Mting casue people who dont play crusaders are whinny cry babies =P..

10-26-2006, 06:36 PM	#2
Boethius_Permafrost Loremaster Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 335	Did you just say it makes no sense that you can block attacks using a shield?

10-26-2006, 08:28 PM	#5
holypaladin28 General Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 255	what about the INT cap i use that for my spell crits and spell heals. im hoping that will had to my dps. my refusal of conviction or what ever its called right now says it will do 700-1000 but i crit for around 1400 alot the bad thing about a pally is we can activaly use STR STA AGI INT WIS if you think about it STR for melee STA for life WIS for power and resist AGI for avoid (i dont really pay attention to this stat) INT for spell damage. so i think it will still be hard for a pallyto take advantage of the stat caps unless you say screw one and go with the other and if i had to do that i would say STR INT and WIS as the three most importent

10-26-2006, 11:07 PM	#6
Half-Rack Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 13	I agree that us Paladins can activly use all the stats, and of cource it would be interesting if we had max stats all the time, but I find that what my role is at the moment determins what stats I focus on. If I am in a raid not tanking, then I cap out STR and INT, if I am tanking, then STA, WIS.. and I carry around at least 2 full sets of different armor for the roles that we can play (and of cource, a bazillion pieces of resist gear). And with the stat cap I will continue to do that kind of thing I think. However, the thing that I am worried about is this: Say at max int (510) right now we do say 700-1100 dmg with refusal of conviction (I know this is not the correct number, but I am at work and can't check).. so at max INT we do that dmg.. with the new stat cap, will I do 700-1100 dmg with 510 int? or will I have to get to the new stat cap (can't remember what it is off the top of my head, like 1050 I think) to do the same damage? or will I be doing like half the damage because I am at half the int cap? I am just kinda hoping that this is not a giant DPS nurf to spells and such because the cap is changing.. Am I making any sence at all? Or has anyone heard anything about this? -Jadara, Lvl 70 Paladin Oasis, Vindication

10-26-2006, 11:52 PM	#8
holypaladin28 General Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 255	no the spell damage would stay the same but if you added more to the cap say from 510 to 900 you would see an increase in DPS

10-27-2006, 02:08 AM	#9
Illustrious Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 226	Seen as Crusaders will not be capping any stat, that will surely mean that they will most likely be in the "sweet" spot for most of the stats purely due to the diminishing returns as stats get closer to the cap? Im not a crusader but am thinking they will be one of the winners from the changes because of just that.

10-27-2006, 02:43 AM	#10
holypaladin28 General Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 255	thats what ui thin as well lets be honest as pallys we can not cap all the stats we need and because of that we will see a better return on what we do by balancing great answer

10-27-2006, 06:45 PM	#12
RaistNA Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 118	these stat changes could also mean higher hp then we have ever seen, and certainly higher power then ever too.

10-28-2006, 06:04 AM	#13
madha General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 666	So sorry about the spelling errors thought i had auto spell check.. must be thinking of my email again.. what i was bugging about is the fact that +defense doesn't increase my mitigation, i can use a 2 hander and have the same MIT And my % chance to avoid only increases a few %. Didn't + deffence used to increase your overall mitigation? And most epic mobs blast through your avoidance like butter.. I must be getting old i swore sheilds and + defence items raised your mit, but I have been told im special.. Sorry for the confusion just old age setting in..

10-29-2006, 01:44 AM	#15
EvilIguana9 General Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 477	Statwise, non raiding crusaders will likely be seeing some noticable gains since we have a lot of uncapped stats. Focus helping us cast through stuns will definitely be a welcome addition, and we can now see benefits from improved casting stats (I might possibly even be convinced to respec back to the wisdom AA line). There is, however, going to be an across the board avoidance nerf that could very well put a big dent in the abilities of frequent soloers, but that is going to be spread over all the fighters so we aren't losing ground as group tanks. As far as mitigation is concerned, I'm not entirely convinced the changes will be good for us. Currently many warriors, guards especially, can raise their mitigation considerably past the existing cap. The cap is being pushed way up, so it's conceivably possible that the mitigation gap between warriors and crusaders could actually increase, at least at the very high end. Well equipped paladins pushing 6000 mit will be mitigating considerably less after the patch, but warriors can add significant amounts of mit beyond that, meaning that they may end up with the same or even better mitigation than they had before the patch.

11-03-2006, 10:55 AM	#16
JarredDarque Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 270	Is that 6k mit solo? or grouped? I am at 5177 solo atm I think when it comes to stats, we will benefit, but will suffer from mitigation, however, I am going to have to wait till it is live to see how badly it hurts my mit. my 5177 is like 72.3% or something, I fear it will drop closer to 50-55% after patch. Avoid is 52% right now. __________________ -Jarred Darque-Sanctus Covenir -Server-Unrest -Lvl 70 Pally, 70 Armorer -

11-03-2006, 06:18 PM	#17
MeridianR Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,402	The max mitigation a Paladin can get solo is around 5525 or something (not including crap items such as Light Chitin Rings, Aviak Feather Charms, Cuirass of Protection), so there is no way that 6k is solo Mine is 5407 self buffed on live, but it will be lower when beta comes around.....(and remember this is adding another ear slot) - my hp on the other hand is 8600 on live. (This stays about the same, or so I hear)Raid Buffed (with a Defiler / Templar) I was over 13k HP and about 6100 Mitigation.....what I am kinda interested in seeing is now the viability of a Mystic buffing the MT since Stamina isn't so easily capped....as it stood now, a Mystic did nothing for me except for there raw HP buff, since I can self cap stamina easily, come the combat changes this isn't going to be possible, and 700+ stamina might be pretty [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] good....just remember come EoF mitigation will not mean as much, so base your gear selections around other more important things __________________ Meridian - L70 Brigand (Vendetta)

11-04-2006, 07:48 PM	#18
RaistNA Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 118	MeridianR wrote:...just remember come EoF mitigation will not mean as much, so base your gear selections around other more important things Hi id like u to meet my little friend, i call him avoidance.

11-05-2006, 10:31 PM	#19
Silverpaws Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Texas Posts: 313	MeridianR wrote:The max mitigation a Paladin can get solo is around 5525 or something (not including crap items such as Light Chitin Rings, Aviak Feather Charms, Cuirass of Protection), so there is no way that 6k is solo Mine is 5407 self buffed on live, but it will be lower when beta comes around.....(and remember this is adding another ear slot) - my hp on the other hand is 8600 on live. (This stays about the same, or so I hear)Raid Buffed (with a Defiler / Templar) I was over 13k HP and about 6100 Mitigation.....what I am kinda interested in seeing is now the viability of a Mystic buffing the MT since Stamina isn't so easily capped....as it stood now, a Mystic did nothing for me except for there raw HP buff, since I can self cap stamina easily, come the combat changes this isn't going to be possible, and 700+ stamina might be pretty [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] good....just remember come EoF mitigation will not mean as much, so base your gear selections around other more important things Curiass of protection only adds 2 points of mitigation on beta versus the Chestplate of Fiery Might. Reason, curiass is legendary, and carries less innate mitigation. Fabled items carry more.I went from upper 60% on live to mid 50% on beta, semi fabled. Those fabled will see a bigger difference in their mit changes, than those in crafted or legdendary. The gap is smaller, but each point means more now. You wont see the huge 15% difference from legdendary geared players to fabled geared players, but your actual ability to mitigate will not change. Hope that makes sense... not enough coffee yet.. Message Edited by Silverpaws on 11-05-2006 11:33 AM __________________