Is needed love on the way?

Torum · 05-10-2006, 10:33 AM

Was just wondering if Guardians are having there intercept lines fixed does this mean possible love for pallys in the future... I mean this is a form of utility for a group, or raid so mabey SOE will help pallys who wish to MT raid content... The one trick pony has been shot and a new day is coming SMILEY

I always thought that pallys and guards were the opposite ends of the spectrum one heals the groups dmg while another intercepts it. Unfortunatly we never recieved the insane tanking abilitys that class does

Mabey now pallys can get a ward over time, self and group buff, plus all plate tanks should have an AA mit option....

Oh yeah its late im tired and just my thoughts.

Goejun · 05-10-2006, 01:55 PM

This fix is for fighters...Pally are fighters and we have that intercept line...So now it will work for us too with the mitigation at last . Though I'm not sure it works out of group and as I'm never in MT group it won't help me in raid but its cool for groups anyway. Futhermore, the intercept line is a good way to get aggro back because, from my experience, the mob seem to turn back to me almost each time I use this skill.

Hakan · 05-10-2006, 02:13 PM

I'm reasonably sure Intercept line is going to be group-only, otherwise you could just set up an intercept chain right?

robusticus · 05-10-2006, 05:05 PM

We always get love with every update. It's just sometimes we get tough love. SMILEY

Leawyn · 05-11-2006, 12:45 AM

Hakanek wrote:
I'm reasonably sure Intercept line is going to be group-only, otherwise you could just set up an intercept chain right?

Its already raid wide. The main reason people don't use it on raids is the fact that it was unmitigated, so tanks were getting one-shotted.

Rocksthemic · 05-11-2006, 12:57 AM

Aye, it is raid wide, but you have to be very close to use it. It's range is something like 5 meters. With this change it will become much more viable though. Right now I only use it as an emergency option if the MT is about to die. Thundaarr Unrest

Torum · 05-11-2006, 04:38 AM

Guardians also have guardian sphere and another Sustain so they have the most to gain in this utllity. Now would it be to much for an AA mit line and group/self ward over time, please SOE gods SMILEY

I understand in the pass people said if you take MTing away from guardians they have nothing but that is no longer the case, please to here my calls SOE...

Sirlutt · 05-11-2006, 05:15 PM

I still think pallies need a self only WOT, like 5% of incoming damage for 30 seconds., and a group wide WOT, (10% of incoming damage for 30 seconds). Make them in group only. This is effectively the exact same thing as the guardians short term buffs.Will you guys stop wanting to nerf guardians / be guardians / whine about your tanking then ? .. hehe.. (just playin)I'd also support giving guards something like "Divine Intervention" which is akin to Guardians TOS except 1 Attack only, but is up for 30 seconds (or until used)... or something like that.Bottom line is this intercept change is good for EVERYONE, means more choices in strategies for tanks other than Guardians... and something constructive for plate tanks who arent tanking to do.

robusticus · 05-11-2006, 05:58 PM

No, sorry, that won't stop me from whining. What MIGHT do the trick though is if warriors got interrupted, fizzled, stunned, etc every time they tried to cast those mit buffs. And when they would actually get one off it wouldn't take effect because someone else already cast one. Then we could ALL be silly clown [Removed for Content] - misery loves company.

QualityJolt · 05-11-2006, 10:32 PM

Guardians also have guardian sphere and another Sustain so they have the most to gain in this utllity. Now would it be to much for an AA mit line and group/self ward over time, please SOE gods I understand in the pass people said if you take MTing away from guardians they have nothing but that is no longer the case, please to here my calls SOE...

I've been playing Paladin since beta in this game but never really posted on this forums. I would vote for AA mit line and Self ward over time. IMO main *raid* tanking ability between warriors and Paladin been widening more in KOS expansion...

OrcSlayer96 · 05-11-2006, 11:10 PM

robusticus wrote:
No, sorry, that won't stop me from whining. What MIGHT do the trick though is if warriors got interrupted, fizzled, stunned, etc every time they tried to cast those mit buffs. And when they would actually get one off it wouldn't take effect because someone else already cast one. Then we could ALL be silly clown [Removed for Content] - misery loves company.

The only time a warrior sees a fizzle is when he tries to use his manastone, heheh. Seriously tho, they need to look at the fizzle rate and decide if the spell quality can reduce or eliminate the fizzles on benefical spells(ie app 1-4 is same fizzle rate now, adept 1 25% less, adept 3 50% less, master 1 75% less, master 2 no fizzle for a example). Warriors get stunned and interrupted just like us, they may have a little less on some of their faster casting combat arts, but i can assure you they do get hit with it. I agree it would be nice to reduce the casting time of our ward down to a second but i will not hold my breath on that one.

robusticus · 05-12-2006, 06:23 PM

Yeah, come to think of it, I get rather sick of hearing the warriors whine about their temp mit buffs getting perepetua interrupted to death.

One has to wonder what effect interrupts have on mobs. If it is a system where a slight breeze or someone farting or whatever causes an interrupt what does that do to a caster or healer mob? Small wonder they all seem to just stand there taking a cloth armor beating. Ever been rooted by a mob and then they didn't back up? Makes a lot of sense. Multiple 10+ page threads on crowd control and not a squeak about interrupts. Boggles the mind.

Knesh · 05-12-2006, 06:36 PM

Is major loving on the way. IMO no...

Here are my rants - our recast on most of our spells are WAY TO LONG. Taunts come to mind, bash comes to mind and Refusal of Faith line dont even get me started. Also why OH WHY is a buff on a 1 minute timer for recast. Call of Glory line 1 minute reallllllllly? Means i have to ask the group after a wipe to stand there for 1 minute while I get to cast this spell....

If they really want to help us, they truly need to revaluate our recast timers because they are appauling at best...

Our Prayer of Conceration lvl 56 group healing is busted. Master 2 lvl 46(?) is better than apprentice 1 even adept 1 lvl 56 spell. Only is the adept 3 and master option better but only slightly...

For some reason I dont see them fixing that anytime soon.

Backlash adept 1 on my server at least and master 1 seems non-existant. And because spongy loams cost more than my left arm I can't afford the adept 3....

I will think of some more stuff later. My head hurts thinking about all these problems....

Anzak · 05-12-2006, 06:52 PM

The 1 minute recast on some of our unlimited durations buffs is to prevent zerging. If I can revive and get back to the group and have all my buffs up in a matter of seconds then there is only revive sickness to deal with. Or if I get rezzed I need to wait a minute before I can get all my buffs up so I can't go right back to tanking a raid mob because it will eat me alive.

Knesh · 05-12-2006, 06:57 PM

Anzak wrote:
The 1 minute recast on some of our unlimited durations buffs is to prevent zerging. If I can revive and get back to the group and have all my buffs up in a matter of seconds then there is only revive sickness to deal with. Or if I get rezzed I need to wait a minute before I can get all my buffs up so I can't go right back to tanking a raid mob because it will eat me alive.

Really zerging??? We have what 4 buffs for ourselves and all of them but 1 is a 1 minute recast. And you're thinking is that it prevents zerging??? I think not....

Anzak · 05-12-2006, 08:08 PM

Actually it is only our group buffs that have the 1 minute recast and there are 2 of them. The call line and the strike line. While I would not consider the strike line critical I would consider the call line critical if you are in the MT group. The point is that if you die there is a limiting factor it between this recast and Rez/revive sickness you are going to be be weakened. This means in places where it is easy to run back to the raid just doing a revive and running back while helping a bit will still leave you at decent size disadvantage.

Knesh · 05-12-2006, 08:14 PM

Anzak wrote:
Actually it is only our group buffs that have the 1 minute recast and there are 2 of them. The call line and the strike line. While I would not consider the strike line critical I would consider the call line critical if you are in the MT group. The point is that if you die there is a limiting factor it between this recast and Rez/revive sickness you are going to be be weakened. This means in places where it is easy to run back to the raid just doing a revive and running back while helping a bit will still leave you at decent size disadvantage.

I get what you saying about going right back into battle but the out the 4 buffs 2 are self only - the imbue weapon proc and our HP buff the other two are the str and wis group buff which is a 30sec recast along with the imbue weapon proc and hp buff and our call line. Our call line is the ONLY buff I know of that we have that takes longer than 30secs to cast.

I dont know what you mean by strike line. Also our line the name escapes me that can increase our avoid and give mit to tank is also a 30sec recast.... (If I am not mistaken) so it seems only the call line is on a 1 minute recast that i can recall.. I would have to check in game when I get home.

Anzak · 05-12-2006, 10:11 PM

Yeah I would have to check in game as well but there are 2 buffs out of the 5 in my rebuff hot bar that are long recast and I have to wait for them to pop once I die.

QualityJolt · 05-12-2006, 10:18 PM

Two self-buffs with recast timers are

1. Ardent Belief ( wisdom buff ) 30 seconds

2. Call to Duty ( Divine damage group proc) 1 minute

Knesh · 05-12-2006, 10:23 PM

QualityJolt wrote:

Two self-buffs with recast timers are

1. Ardent Belief ( wisdom buff ) 30 seconds

2. Call to Duty ( Divine damage group proc) 1 minute

Those are not self buffs those are group buffs!

QualityJolt · 05-12-2006, 10:33 PM

Knesh wrote:

QualityJolt wrote:

Two self-buffs with recast timers are

1. Ardent Belief ( wisdom buff ) 30 seconds

2. Call to Duty ( Divine damage group proc) 1 minute

Those are not self buffs those are group buffs!

LOL. Let me re-phrase, I was answering to Aznak post about 2 out of 5 buffs that we do after we wipe SMILEY , actually there are 3 with timers

1. Ardent Belief ( wisdom buff ) 30 seconds

2. Call to Duty ( Divine damage group proc) 1 minute

3. Blessing of the Reverent ( HP buff ) 20 seconds

4. Defensive/offensive stance ( no recase timer )

5. Righteous Demonstration ( no recast timer )

05-10-2006, 10:33 AM	#1
Torum General Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 45	Was just wondering if Guardians are having there intercept lines fixed does this mean possible love for pallys in the future... I mean this is a form of utility for a group, or raid so mabey SOE will help pallys who wish to MT raid content... The one trick pony has been shot and a new day is coming I always thought that pallys and guards were the opposite ends of the spectrum one heals the groups dmg while another intercepts it. Unfortunatly we never recieved the insane tanking abilitys that class does Mabey now pallys can get a ward over time, self and group buff, plus all plate tanks should have an AA mit option.... Oh yeah its late im tired and just my thoughts.

05-10-2006, 01:55 PM	#2
Goejun Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 87	This fix is for fighters...Pally are fighters and we have that intercept line...So now it will work for us too with the mitigation at last . Though I'm not sure it works out of group and as I'm never in MT group it won't help me in raid but its cool for groups anyway. Futhermore, the intercept line is a good way to get aggro back because, from my experience, the mob seem to turn back to me almost each time I use this skill. __________________ ================================================ ============= WOW is MMO for Dummies ============== ================================================ Hebon: Paladin 70 (59 AA) - Carpenter 60 Zeranok: Necromancer 57 - Wait and see

05-11-2006, 12:45 AM	#5
Leawyn Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,014	Hakanek wrote: I'm reasonably sure Intercept line is going to be group-only, otherwise you could just set up an intercept chain right? Its already raid wide. The main reason people don't use it on raids is the fact that it was unmitigated, so tanks were getting one-shotted. __________________ Maelani \| Maelya \| Maerie \| Maehymn \| Maewyn \| Maekita \| Maelynne

05-11-2006, 12:57 AM	#6
Rocksthemic Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 213	Aye, it is raid wide, but you have to be very close to use it. It's range is something like 5 meters. With this change it will become much more viable though. Right now I only use it as an emergency option if the MT is about to die. Thundaarr Unrest __________________

05-11-2006, 05:15 PM	#8
Sirlutt Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,149	I still think pallies need a self only WOT, like 5% of incoming damage for 30 seconds., and a group wide WOT, (10% of incoming damage for 30 seconds). Make them in group only. This is effectively the exact same thing as the guardians short term buffs.Will you guys stop wanting to nerf guardians / be guardians / whine about your tanking then ? .. hehe.. (just playin)I'd also support giving guards something like "Divine Intervention" which is akin to Guardians TOS except 1 Attack only, but is up for 30 seconds (or until used)... or something like that.Bottom line is this intercept change is good for EVERYONE, means more choices in strategies for tanks other than Guardians... and something constructive for plate tanks who arent tanking to do. __________________ I heart DE Broads

05-10-2006, 02:13 PM	#3
Hakan Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 77	I'm reasonably sure Intercept line is going to be group-only, otherwise you could just set up an intercept chain right?

05-10-2006, 05:05 PM	#4
robusticus Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 220	We always get love with every update. It's just sometimes we get tough love.

05-11-2006, 04:38 AM	#7
Torum General Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 45	Guardians also have guardian sphere and another Sustain so they have the most to gain in this utllity. Now would it be to much for an AA mit line and group/self ward over time, please SOE gods I understand in the pass people said if you take MTing away from guardians they have nothing but that is no longer the case, please to here my calls SOE...

05-11-2006, 05:58 PM	#9
robusticus Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 220	No, sorry, that won't stop me from whining. What MIGHT do the trick though is if warriors got interrupted, fizzled, stunned, etc every time they tried to cast those mit buffs. And when they would actually get one off it wouldn't take effect because someone else already cast one. Then we could ALL be silly clown [Removed for Content] - misery loves company.

05-11-2006, 10:32 PM	#10
QualityJolt Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 16	Guardians also have guardian sphere and another Sustain so they have the most to gain in this utllity. Now would it be to much for an AA mit line and group/self ward over time, please SOE gods I understand in the pass people said if you take MTing away from guardians they have nothing but that is no longer the case, please to here my calls SOE... I've been playing Paladin since beta in this game but never really posted on this forums. I would vote for AA mit line and Self ward over time. IMO main raid tanking ability between warriors and Paladin been widening more in KOS expansion...

05-11-2006, 11:10 PM	#11
OrcSlayer96 Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 794	robusticus wrote: No, sorry, that won't stop me from whining. What MIGHT do the trick though is if warriors got interrupted, fizzled, stunned, etc every time they tried to cast those mit buffs. And when they would actually get one off it wouldn't take effect because someone else already cast one. Then we could ALL be silly clown [Removed for Content] - misery loves company. The only time a warrior sees a fizzle is when he tries to use his manastone, heheh. Seriously tho, they need to look at the fizzle rate and decide if the spell quality can reduce or eliminate the fizzles on benefical spells(ie app 1-4 is same fizzle rate now, adept 1 25% less, adept 3 50% less, master 1 75% less, master 2 no fizzle for a example). Warriors get stunned and interrupted just like us, they may have a little less on some of their faster casting combat arts, but i can assure you they do get hit with it. I agree it would be nice to reduce the casting time of our ward down to a second but i will not hold my breath on that one.

05-12-2006, 06:23 PM	#12
robusticus Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 220	Yeah, come to think of it, I get rather sick of hearing the warriors whine about their temp mit buffs getting perepetua interrupted to death. One has to wonder what effect interrupts have on mobs. If it is a system where a slight breeze or someone farting or whatever causes an interrupt what does that do to a caster or healer mob? Small wonder they all seem to just stand there taking a cloth armor beating. Ever been rooted by a mob and then they didn't back up? Makes a lot of sense. Multiple 10+ page threads on crowd control and not a squeak about interrupts. Boggles the mind.

05-12-2006, 06:36 PM	#13
Knesh Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 215	Is major loving on the way. IMO no... Here are my rants - our recast on most of our spells are WAY TO LONG. Taunts come to mind, bash comes to mind and Refusal of Faith line dont even get me started. Also why OH WHY is a buff on a 1 minute timer for recast. Call of Glory line 1 minute reallllllllly? Means i have to ask the group after a wipe to stand there for 1 minute while I get to cast this spell.... If they really want to help us, they truly need to revaluate our recast timers because they are appauling at best... Our Prayer of Conceration lvl 56 group healing is busted. Master 2 lvl 46(?) is better than apprentice 1 even adept 1 lvl 56 spell. Only is the adept 3 and master option better but only slightly... For some reason I dont see them fixing that anytime soon. Backlash adept 1 on my server at least and master 1 seems non-existant. And because spongy loams cost more than my left arm I can't afford the adept 3.... I will think of some more stuff later. My head hurts thinking about all these problems.... __________________

05-12-2006, 06:52 PM	#14
Anzak Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 548	The 1 minute recast on some of our unlimited durations buffs is to prevent zerging. If I can revive and get back to the group and have all my buffs up in a matter of seconds then there is only revive sickness to deal with. Or if I get rezzed I need to wait a minute before I can get all my buffs up so I can't go right back to tanking a raid mob because it will eat me alive.

05-12-2006, 06:57 PM	#15
Knesh Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 215	Anzak wrote: The 1 minute recast on some of our unlimited durations buffs is to prevent zerging. If I can revive and get back to the group and have all my buffs up in a matter of seconds then there is only revive sickness to deal with. Or if I get rezzed I need to wait a minute before I can get all my buffs up so I can't go right back to tanking a raid mob because it will eat me alive. Really zerging??? We have what 4 buffs for ourselves and all of them but 1 is a 1 minute recast. And you're thinking is that it prevents zerging??? I think not.... __________________

05-12-2006, 08:08 PM	#16
Anzak Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 548	Actually it is only our group buffs that have the 1 minute recast and there are 2 of them. The call line and the strike line. While I would not consider the strike line critical I would consider the call line critical if you are in the MT group. The point is that if you die there is a limiting factor it between this recast and Rez/revive sickness you are going to be be weakened. This means in places where it is easy to run back to the raid just doing a revive and running back while helping a bit will still leave you at decent size disadvantage.

05-12-2006, 08:14 PM	#17
Knesh Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 215	Anzak wrote: Actually it is only our group buffs that have the 1 minute recast and there are 2 of them. The call line and the strike line. While I would not consider the strike line critical I would consider the call line critical if you are in the MT group. The point is that if you die there is a limiting factor it between this recast and Rez/revive sickness you are going to be be weakened. This means in places where it is easy to run back to the raid just doing a revive and running back while helping a bit will still leave you at decent size disadvantage. I get what you saying about going right back into battle but the out the 4 buffs 2 are self only - the imbue weapon proc and our HP buff the other two are the str and wis group buff which is a 30sec recast along with the imbue weapon proc and hp buff and our call line. Our call line is the ONLY buff I know of that we have that takes longer than 30secs to cast. I dont know what you mean by strike line. Also our line the name escapes me that can increase our avoid and give mit to tank is also a 30sec recast.... (If I am not mistaken) so it seems only the call line is on a 1 minute recast that i can recall.. I would have to check in game when I get home. __________________

05-12-2006, 10:11 PM	#18
Anzak Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 548	Yeah I would have to check in game as well but there are 2 buffs out of the 5 in my rebuff hot bar that are long recast and I have to wait for them to pop once I die.

05-12-2006, 10:18 PM	#19
QualityJolt Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 16	Two self-buffs with recast timers are 1. Ardent Belief ( wisdom buff ) 30 seconds 2. Call to Duty ( Divine damage group proc) 1 minute

05-12-2006, 10:23 PM	#20
Knesh Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 215	QualityJolt wrote: Two self-buffs with recast timers are 1. Ardent Belief ( wisdom buff ) 30 seconds 2. Call to Duty ( Divine damage group proc) 1 minute Those are not self buffs those are group buffs! __________________

05-12-2006, 10:33 PM	#21
QualityJolt Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 16	Knesh wrote: QualityJolt wrote: Two self-buffs with recast timers are 1. Ardent Belief ( wisdom buff ) 30 seconds 2. Call to Duty ( Divine damage group proc) 1 minute Those are not self buffs those are group buffs! LOL. Let me re-phrase, I was answering to Aznak post about 2 out of 5 buffs that we do after we wipe , actually there are 3 with timers 1. Ardent Belief ( wisdom buff ) 30 seconds 2. Call to Duty ( Divine damage group proc) 1 minute 3. Blessing of the Reverent ( HP buff ) 20 seconds 4. Defensive/offensive stance ( no recase timer ) 5. Righteous Demonstration ( no recast timer )