Solo DPS: Str/Swiftaxe or AGI/Joust

dagoo7 · 12-19-2006, 10:15 PM

Almost solely play my SK solo and tend to prioritize dps for faster kills over defense/utility. After maxing the requisite spell crit in INT, was initially planning on going the STR route and putting points in swiftaxe and the passive haste. However, after hearing that both Joust attacks currently fire even when unmounted I started to reconsider the AGI line. Along with joust, I find Trample very appealing (coming from my Hurricane-happy swashie) and beginning to wonder if net dps gain from AGI would be equal to or better than STR. Particularly given that when soloing, I'm generally in an area where mounted is an option.

However, I'm still somewhat confused about the efficacy and net benefit of the strength line. I know swiftaxe starts out giving an 18% attack speed buff at first level, but have been unable to find out if this goes up with more points, and if so how it scales. In order to make a good comparison, need to get a better idea of what the total speed buff is from swiftaxe and passive bonus.

Can any experienced SKs give me some hard data and/or anecdotal evidence/opinions on where I should go?

Anselan · 12-20-2006, 05:05 PM

I've been down the STR line to the end so speaking from experience here, I think the haste goes up at 2% per point after initial from memory. It's certainly useful if you have an amazing axe to equip, but in your case for soloing I would recommend the agility line.

We thrive against multiple mobs with our AOEs as it is, adding trample/joust would hugely improve soloing, espcially given that most heroic named come with a couple of linked adds or spawn them. However it's worth pointing out that joust may be fixed.

I think one of the guys on here uses agi line combined with Reaver line for soloing and is doing very well with it.

Message Edited by Anselan on 12-20-2006 12:08 PM

dagoo7 · 12-20-2006, 07:43 PM

Thanks for the input. I think I will try out agility first. Can always respec to strength if things change or I get a hold of an uber/endgame axe. Only painful part will be needing to keep both piercing and slashing close to level.

Nocifer Deathblade · 12-20-2006, 07:46 PM

Anselan wrote:

We thrive against multiple mobs with our AOEs as it is, adding trample/joust would hugely improve soloing, espcially given that most heroic named come with a couple of linked adds or spawn them. However it's worth pointing out that joust may be fixed.

I think one of the guys on here uses agi line combined with Reaver line for soloing and is doing very well with it.

Message Edited by Anselan on 12-20-2006 12:08 PM

Hehe, that is me.. AGI+Reaver.. I'm Vampire Cavalier.. SMILEY One of few SK on that path cuz I refuse to give up as true Cavalier (Cuz of RP reason that I must be mounted dark knight so I dedicate myself as one and wrote up about AGI path and learn more about it from players' feedbacks) going all way to lance as final ability and loving it so far.

Anyway, the joust is the same since KOS and I dunno if it would ever get fixed cuz right now, its really reasonable skill as is.. Fixing it will only make it pretty unattractive compared to other weapon-requiring skills. If SOE decides to fix joust skil then they should up the damage if plan to single attack without horse and double attack as mounted so we won't feel much of a nerf from single increased attack but a nice bonus if get horse on tho..

Trample is not only good for solo. Trample is great for solo, group and raid. It will not break mezzes at all unless you intentionally target a mezzed mob.. I use 2h pierce all the time in raids when I am not MT. No reason to go 1h/shield as damage support in raids at all. I use 2hp all the time to solo as wel. I use 1h/shield all the time as duo or group tho cuz I have to be MT.

One BIGGEST drawback for using joust skill is SEVERLY lack of good 1h pierce for SK. Be prepared.. 2h pierce weapons are pretty lacking for SKs as well but, fortunately, pike of pain is only fabled weapon that we could obtain with decent ratio and it's cheapest pain type of weapon compared to other pain weapons that we could obtain.

I don't understand why SOE introduced Cavalier line for crusaders and won't add any decent 1h lances or spears for us to use to work with AGI. They even held carrot to my face when I was doing Wurmslayer and saw that it was classified as great spear. I was soo thrilled and decided to throw myself to it and saw that all upgraded wurmslayers are still great spear. Formed Wurmslayer was my best 2hp weapon for jousting etc and decided to upgrade it even further to get uber final 2h wurmslayer. When I got it, I was soo excited only to feel a great disappointment when I saw that the label said TWO HANDED STAFF all the sudden out of no where while all 3 or 4 previous 2h versions are all great spears.. I hoped it won't hurt joust/lance skill so I went out to test. I was soo disappointed when I pressed joust and lance and it said requires spear to do it.. It doesn't recognize Wurmslayer at all, period. Wurmslayer will be a perfect weapon for Cavalier riding on horse using wurmslayer to slay dragons. A very fitting RP picture. SOE is pretty dumb not to allow that.

I tried to switch to dual wield version of Wurmslayer.. Guess what? It is classifed as spear!! I can even joust and lance with it! But, unfortunately, cuz it's classified as DW, my attack rating got halved from 1200 to 600 and the DR on it is not much diff from mastercrafted voulge and voulger is doing better damage over it. ;( Wurmslayer is now hanging on my wall in house mocking me with the purpose for my hatred to grow and grow stronger and stronger. I guess that's Innoruuk's purpose of that wurmslayer odd design to rub it in my face.

I tried to use 2h wurmslayer to trample. I LOVE it.. Was doing nearly 1k damage each to 4 mobs pretty often cuz of 3.0 delay couples with Despoil AC debuff for better trampling job.. Too bad, can't joust/lance.. Pike of Pain tramples for less damage but can joust+lance so it is doing better than Wurmslayer..

I had hoped that EOF would introduce new breed of piercers for SK ESPECIALLY true lances but didn't see any so far.. I want awesome LANCE graph for Sk to use.. It'll make my day..

I have AGI line of 4-8-8-5-8 cuz had to have room for INT 4-4-8 to work with it. Now, I want melee crits AAs so can crit joust+lance. SMILEY Strength for me is pretty important compared to other SKs cuz strength increases damage on joust, trample, and lance all together so I focus heavily on Strength and INT the most of all. I like 5 ranks in higher ground cuz of nice defense bonus. It means little more now thanks to combat change that makes low avoidance to return more per 1 def point.. knockdown immunity from 5 ranks means NOTHING to me. TOO short.. so doesn't matter with or without horse. Defense stays the same regardless of horse. Only lose is knockdown immunity if you are on foot but SO freaking what.. Won't notice any difference. SMILEY

I would LOVE to see lance skill to get revised to remove useless snare ability and grant us ability to use horses indoors instead then lance final ability will be more useful for us. SMILEY That would make AGI line labelled CAVALIER a true cavalier name cuz crusaders with lance skill would be truly cavalier indoors cuz they would be only ones with horses indoors impressing everyone cuz everyone else cannot even mount.. SMILEY

I do have 21 EOF AA into reaver including final reaver ability. I sure love it a lot! I wish harmtouch leech can be revised. Will respec later to get 3 aa off leech into lifetap sec reduction or whatever..

Message Edited by Nocifer Deathblade on 12-20-2006 10:01 AM

Zagats · 12-22-2006, 02:38 AM

all this is making me wanna start up my SK again.. he's 42 Iksar SK, only has 8 aa atm though. Still, with the changes in Iksar's swimming and alot of the SK issues being fixed, he's looking really attractive on my character select screen..think ill give him a whirl tonight!

Nocifer Deathblade · 12-22-2006, 06:40 PM

Zagats wrote:

he's 42 Iksar SK, only has 8 aa atm though.

No big deal now. AA is easy to come by from quests. SMILEY

If you do lot of quests, aa will just fly. SMILEY

Everquest 2 is truly EverQUEST. EQ1 is not...

Bladewind · 12-22-2006, 08:45 PM

Nocifer Deathblade wrote:

Zagats wrote:

he's 42 Iksar SK, only has 8 aa atm though.

No big deal now. AA is easy to come by from quests. If you do lot of quests, aa will just fly. Everquest 2 is truly EverQUEST. EQ1 is not...

Indeed and especially now that green quests give AA. I was doing solo quests in LFay on my old dusty 58 paladin and got 9 AA (went from 18 to 27) in two hours or so of play time. I'm sure there are just as many quests in Steamfont that a 42 SK can tear through SMILEY

Humuhumunukunukuapua · 12-22-2006, 10:27 PM

Bladewind wrote:

Indeed and especially now that green quests give AA.

/record skips. Say whaaaat? I thought only blue and higher con quests gave AA xp? If green con quests do, how much do they give you per turn in? Is there still a rough range limit (e.g., 5 lvls lower, etc.), or at level 70, can I dip down to T6 quests and so on? As a primarily solo player, I was discouraged that I had run through all the T7 EOF solo quest content (Loping) in a couple of days. This certainly brings some hope into the situation if lower tier quests give AA xp as well.

Rui · 12-22-2006, 11:02 PM

It's in the patch notes, the last note. If you look in your quest journal, you'll see a lot of your "green" quests are now grey (which means no AA XP), but some will be "green" still, and they seem to give a decent amount of AA XP. At level 23, quests more than 5 levels down were green, so I expect at 70 you might find quests 10 levels lower or more green and worth AA XP.

12-20-2006, 07:46 PM	#4
Nocifer Deathblade Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 850	Anselan wrote: We thrive against multiple mobs with our AOEs as it is, adding trample/joust would hugely improve soloing, espcially given that most heroic named come with a couple of linked adds or spawn them. However it's worth pointing out that joust may be fixed. I think one of the guys on here uses agi line combined with Reaver line for soloing and is doing very well with it. Message Edited by Anselan on 12-20-2006 12:08 PM Hehe, that is me.. AGI+Reaver.. I'm Vampire Cavalier.. One of few SK on that path cuz I refuse to give up as true Cavalier (Cuz of RP reason that I must be mounted dark knight so I dedicate myself as one and wrote up about AGI path and learn more about it from players' feedbacks) going all way to lance as final ability and loving it so far. Anyway, the joust is the same since KOS and I dunno if it would ever get fixed cuz right now, its really reasonable skill as is.. Fixing it will only make it pretty unattractive compared to other weapon-requiring skills. If SOE decides to fix joust skil then they should up the damage if plan to single attack without horse and double attack as mounted so we won't feel much of a nerf from single increased attack but a nice bonus if get horse on tho.. Trample is not only good for solo. Trample is great for solo, group and raid. It will not break mezzes at all unless you intentionally target a mezzed mob.. I use 2h pierce all the time in raids when I am not MT. No reason to go 1h/shield as damage support in raids at all. I use 2hp all the time to solo as wel. I use 1h/shield all the time as duo or group tho cuz I have to be MT. One BIGGEST drawback for using joust skill is SEVERLY lack of good 1h pierce for SK. Be prepared.. 2h pierce weapons are pretty lacking for SKs as well but, fortunately, pike of pain is only fabled weapon that we could obtain with decent ratio and it's cheapest pain type of weapon compared to other pain weapons that we could obtain. I don't understand why SOE introduced Cavalier line for crusaders and won't add any decent 1h lances or spears for us to use to work with AGI. They even held carrot to my face when I was doing Wurmslayer and saw that it was classified as great spear. I was soo thrilled and decided to throw myself to it and saw that all upgraded wurmslayers are still great spear. Formed Wurmslayer was my best 2hp weapon for jousting etc and decided to upgrade it even further to get uber final 2h wurmslayer. When I got it, I was soo excited only to feel a great disappointment when I saw that the label said TWO HANDED STAFF all the sudden out of no where while all 3 or 4 previous 2h versions are all great spears.. I hoped it won't hurt joust/lance skill so I went out to test. I was soo disappointed when I pressed joust and lance and it said requires spear to do it.. It doesn't recognize Wurmslayer at all, period. Wurmslayer will be a perfect weapon for Cavalier riding on horse using wurmslayer to slay dragons. A very fitting RP picture. SOE is pretty dumb not to allow that. I tried to switch to dual wield version of Wurmslayer.. Guess what? It is classifed as spear!! I can even joust and lance with it! But, unfortunately, cuz it's classified as DW, my attack rating got halved from 1200 to 600 and the DR on it is not much diff from mastercrafted voulge and voulger is doing better damage over it. ;( Wurmslayer is now hanging on my wall in house mocking me with the purpose for my hatred to grow and grow stronger and stronger. I guess that's Innoruuk's purpose of that wurmslayer odd design to rub it in my face. I tried to use 2h wurmslayer to trample. I LOVE it.. Was doing nearly 1k damage each to 4 mobs pretty often cuz of 3.0 delay couples with Despoil AC debuff for better trampling job.. Too bad, can't joust/lance.. Pike of Pain tramples for less damage but can joust+lance so it is doing better than Wurmslayer.. I had hoped that EOF would introduce new breed of piercers for SK ESPECIALLY true lances but didn't see any so far.. I want awesome LANCE graph for Sk to use.. It'll make my day.. I have AGI line of 4-8-8-5-8 cuz had to have room for INT 4-4-8 to work with it. Now, I want melee crits AAs so can crit joust+lance. Strength for me is pretty important compared to other SKs cuz strength increases damage on joust, trample, and lance all together so I focus heavily on Strength and INT the most of all. I like 5 ranks in higher ground cuz of nice defense bonus. It means little more now thanks to combat change that makes low avoidance to return more per 1 def point.. knockdown immunity from 5 ranks means NOTHING to me. TOO short.. so doesn't matter with or without horse. Defense stays the same regardless of horse. Only lose is knockdown immunity if you are on foot but SO freaking what.. Won't notice any difference. I would LOVE to see lance skill to get revised to remove useless snare ability and grant us ability to use horses indoors instead then lance final ability will be more useful for us. That would make AGI line labelled CAVALIER a true cavalier name cuz crusaders with lance skill would be truly cavalier indoors cuz they would be only ones with horses indoors impressing everyone cuz everyone else cannot even mount.. I do have 21 EOF AA into reaver including final reaver ability. I sure love it a lot! I wish harmtouch leech can be revised. Will respec later to get 3 aa off leech into lifetap sec reduction or whatever.. Message Edited by Nocifer Deathblade on 12-20-2006 10:01 AM __________________ EQ I: Archfiend Nocifer Deathblade -Retired Fall '06, Bristlebane Server Vampire Cavalier, 80 Armorer, 390Transmuter, 138 AP, 2.3M Guild Status Points

12-22-2006, 02:38 AM	#5
Zagats Loremaster Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 419	all this is making me wanna start up my SK again.. he's 42 Iksar SK, only has 8 aa atm though. Still, with the changes in Iksar's swimming and alot of the SK issues being fixed, he's looking really attractive on my character select screen..think ill give him a whirl tonight! __________________ 80 Defiler - Lawlz/ 80 Alchy/ Master Tink/ 189AA aka 80 Brig - Brekon/ 80 Jeweler/ Master Tink/ 198 AA Retired!!! 80 Coercer - Freeqq/ Master Tink/ 168 AA 80 Guard - Zomg/ Master Muter/ 192 AA 80 Zerk - Zomg (R.I.P) 80 Zerk - Barn/ 80 Provi/ 162 AA 80 Dirge - Micetro/ 165AA 80 Swash - Erno/ 141 AA 80 Templar - Shortey/ 75 Alchy/ 151 AA 80 Inquis - Ubet (R.I.P) 80 Templar - Ubet (R.I.P) 80 Wiz - Brnd/ 145AA 72Conjy - Zzzz 71 Assasin - Scoole 70 Swash - Bladeflash ... I play too much.

12-22-2006, 06:40 PM	#6
Nocifer Deathblade Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 850	Zagats wrote: he's 42 Iksar SK, only has 8 aa atm though. No big deal now. AA is easy to come by from quests. If you do lot of quests, aa will just fly. Everquest 2 is truly EverQUEST. EQ1 is not... __________________ EQ I: Archfiend Nocifer Deathblade -Retired Fall '06, Bristlebane Server Vampire Cavalier, 80 Armorer, 390Transmuter, 138 AP, 2.3M Guild Status Points

12-22-2006, 08:45 PM	#7
Bladewind Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 783	Nocifer Deathblade wrote: Zagats wrote: he's 42 Iksar SK, only has 8 aa atm though. No big deal now. AA is easy to come by from quests. If you do lot of quests, aa will just fly. Everquest 2 is truly EverQUEST. EQ1 is not... Indeed and especially now that green quests give AA. I was doing solo quests in LFay on my old dusty 58 paladin and got 9 AA (went from 18 to 27) in two hours or so of play time. I'm sure there are just as many quests in Steamfont that a 42 SK can tear through __________________

12-22-2006, 10:27 PM	#8
Humuhumunukunukuapua Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 36	Bladewind wrote: Indeed and especially now that green quests give AA. /record skips. Say whaaaat? I thought only blue and higher con quests gave AA xp? If green con quests do, how much do they give you per turn in? Is there still a rough range limit (e.g., 5 lvls lower, etc.), or at level 70, can I dip down to T6 quests and so on? As a primarily solo player, I was discouraged that I had run through all the T7 EOF solo quest content (Loping) in a couple of days. This certainly brings some hope into the situation if lower tier quests give AA xp as well.

12-19-2006, 10:15 PM	#1
dagoo7 Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 157	Almost solely play my SK solo and tend to prioritize dps for faster kills over defense/utility. After maxing the requisite spell crit in INT, was initially planning on going the STR route and putting points in swiftaxe and the passive haste. However, after hearing that both Joust attacks currently fire even when unmounted I started to reconsider the AGI line. Along with joust, I find Trample very appealing (coming from my Hurricane-happy swashie) and beginning to wonder if net dps gain from AGI would be equal to or better than STR. Particularly given that when soloing, I'm generally in an area where mounted is an option. However, I'm still somewhat confused about the efficacy and net benefit of the strength line. I know swiftaxe starts out giving an 18% attack speed buff at first level, but have been unable to find out if this goes up with more points, and if so how it scales. In order to make a good comparison, need to get a better idea of what the total speed buff is from swiftaxe and passive bonus. Can any experienced SKs give me some hard data and/or anecdotal evidence/opinions on where I should go?

12-20-2006, 05:05 PM	#2
Anselan Loremaster Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 30	I've been down the STR line to the end so speaking from experience here, I think the haste goes up at 2% per point after initial from memory. It's certainly useful if you have an amazing axe to equip, but in your case for soloing I would recommend the agility line. We thrive against multiple mobs with our AOEs as it is, adding trample/joust would hugely improve soloing, espcially given that most heroic named come with a couple of linked adds or spawn them. However it's worth pointing out that joust may be fixed. I think one of the guys on here uses agi line combined with Reaver line for soloing and is doing very well with it. Message Edited by Anselan on 12-20-2006 12:08 PM

12-20-2006, 07:43 PM	#3
dagoo7 Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 157	Thanks for the input. I think I will try out agility first. Can always respec to strength if things change or I get a hold of an uber/endgame axe. Only painful part will be needing to keep both piercing and slashing close to level.

12-22-2006, 11:02 PM	#9
Rui Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 26	It's in the patch notes, the last note. If you look in your quest journal, you'll see a lot of your "green" quests are now grey (which means no AA XP), but some will be "green" still, and they seem to give a decent amount of AA XP. At level 23, quests more than 5 levels down were green, so I expect at 70 you might find quests 10 levels lower or more green and worth AA XP.