SK dps

[Ranta]

Hi, new to the SK class. I'm wondering what are their weapon choices? Also how is SK melee dps, or most of their dps comes from their dots and dd's? Thanks.

[Ultimatum]

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Rantaro wrote:Hi, new to the SK class. I'm wondering what are their weapon choices? Also how is SK melee dps, or most of their dps comes from their dots and dd's? Thanks.

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Welcome to the dark side   What do you mean by weapon choices?  Types or styles?  for types, we can use Swords, Axes, Hammers, and Spears.  Style-wise we can use 1h and 2h weapons of those types.  While we can't dual wield, we CAN equip some DW weapons, but it not advisable since they have half the damage rating as a 1h weapon.SKs are mostly Spell based DPS.  Think of them as a plate wearing necro-tank if you will.  We can tank just as well as any other fighter, but where we might lack in mitigation against Warriors, and avoidance against Brawlers, we make up for it with our Necro-like lifetaps to keep us alive.  My advice would be to worry about upgrading your taunts, damage shield, both stances, and your buffs first.  Also, always remember that melee only makes up for 10-15% of your total damage on average, so upgrading your spells over your combat arts is probably a good idea as well With good gear and spells, we can solo many things that give other tanks a problem, in some cases heroic mobs 1-2 levels above yours can be solo'd if you have a firm grasp on the class and what it can and can't do.Good luck and enjoy playing what I feel is the most fun and entertaining of the tank classes.

[AppyH]

SKs can use most standard weapons (not ranged weps though) , but cant dual wield, so you'll be using a 1h+shield when tanking, or a 2h weapon when not. SKs dps is pretty much abysmal, only beating paladins most of the time if that, though they can tank fairly decent, but nowhere close to what a Guardian or Berserker can do, works fine for solo/single grouping and easy x2 raids, but for real raids they are pretty much delegated to offtanks/filling up the raid slots. - Fun to play, but pretty much useless if you want to sometime join a serious endgame raid guild.

Message Edited by AppyH on 07-17-2006 11:57 AM

Message Edited by AppyH on 07-17-2006 11:59 AM

[Ultimatum]

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AppyH wrote:

SKs can use most standard weapons (not ranged weps though) , but cant dual wield, so you'll be using a 1h+shield when tanking, or a 2h weapon when not. SKs dps is pretty much abysmal, only beating paladins most of the time if that, though they can tank fairly decent, but nowhere close to what a Guardian or Berserker can do, works fine for solo/single grouping and easy x2 raids, but for real raids they are pretty much delegated to offtanks/filling up the raid slots. - Fun to play, but pretty much useless if you want to sometime join a serious endgame raid guild.

Message Edited by AppyH on 07-17-2006 11:57 AM

Message Edited by AppyH on 07-17-2006 11:59 AM

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It's posts like this that make me wonder why A) People who think this way still play an SK, and B) People who think this way find it necessary to comment on a new player's posts with something that will possibly make them not want to play the classI'll amend this by saying "people who have no concept of the SK class and do nothing but mash buttons have abysmal DPS, but people who know how to time debuffs and spells, and can play the class well can compete with T2 DPS with not much problem"  That said, learn the class and ask questions and you'll have nothing to worry about.  Don't let people's misconceptions with the class scare you away from trying it out.

[Ranta]

Thank you for your replies, will start on the class and try it out. Interesting concept. If you have any pointers on the class, they'd be greatly appreciated.

[AppyH]

You're right, instead of giving him info on the SK class we should just do him a favor and saying "Go play another class" ! :p

[Nicholai24]

AppyH Newbie________________Quoted for truth.

[Arieneth]

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AppyH wrote:
You're right, instead of giving him info on the SK class we should just do him a favor and saying "Go play another class" ! :p

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you should be posting here:

http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board?board.id=Newbie

 

if you have any useful advice for an aspiring SK, then post it. but don't post a bunch of negative b.s. about a class you didn't learn how to play.

[standupwookie]

Well, unless we are VERY well equipped, we are pretty useless on a raid.  I mean, there are SKs out there who will do respectable DPS (in terms of fighters) against raid targets...but as well all know, there is usually a Beserker or Guardian tanking those raid. Yes, a SK can tank, but he has to be well equipped and know his stuff.  This game has an abundance of fighters, and that is usually the class that raids have the most of...unless they are specifically constructed raids. The big thing a SK can bring to a raid is his own survivability.  If you have you taps adept III or even Master...and have decent HPs, you will survive that AOE even while not tanked buffed.  No scout will be able to do that. You are still going to need a healer though. If you are not on par with the best equipped raid members, then you are little more than a pet and a mana sponge.  I would advise to spec INT to get that nuke.  Just put on a robe and pretend you are a mage for a fight or two. One of the big problem is that warriors get the ability to double attack (I think they have to use a buckler).  But there are a few bucklers that are actually VERY good, so there is no real downside to this. But as bad as it can get for a middle of the road SK on a raid, we are not as bad off a a spare guardian. I think that once we get class specific AAs and equipment gets better, SKs will start to rapidly catch up to the rest of the pack in terms of what they can bring to a raid. Obviously, we have no real buffs and our Despolioing Mist is easily negated by other classes and even long casting totems.  I think there is a limit to how much you can de-mitigate a mob.

[Beldin_]

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standupwookie wrote:
Well, unless we are VERY well equipped, we are pretty useless on a raid.  I mean, there are SKs out there who will do respectable DPS (in terms of fighters) against raid targets...but as well all know, there is usually a Beserker or Guardian tanking those raid.

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Yeah .. so what ? Should he better play a zerker or guardian .. and then realize that if he wants to raid there is .. like you said .. already a full fabled guard or zerker that is tanking .. and so they say : sorry .. no need for another warrior. A Raid Ally on my server for example had a Guard Zerker and Pala .. and they always said we need no other tanks .. but when the Pala left them what did they wanted ? Another zerker or guard ? No .. a Pala or SK.

If you want so much a good damned role in a raid make a healer or brigand .. if you want to play a fighter class that can solo excellent and also makes a good group tank .. play SK .. its really a fun class in my opinion since i don't give a heck about raids

[VainShad]

I think people are over-emphasizing raiding as a reason for not choosing SK.  What if you don't plan to raid?  I don't find scheduling my free time around farming the same defenceless pixels in a zerg of 24 people very interesting.  Already did that in WoW, no thanks, raiding sucks.I'm L51 and have had a blast playing the class so far, it's the most fun class I've ever played.So when I hit L70 what will I do?  Keep PvPing some, and when I get bored of that, move on to another game -- there are plenty of new mmorpgs coming out this year.

There is plenty of fun to be had on the road to 70 with this class, so enjoy it and then once you get there, figure out if you'd rather do something else.

[Nicholai24]

Vain is wise.

[G1Joe]

Well just to throw an answer into the DPS question , I can only speak for myself and at level 57 its pretty poor, if I actually go all out to do max dps cos someone has a parser and everyone in the group wants an ego boost I can beat a healer but thats about it. These guys that are topping the DPS charts without HT I fond astonishing cos in my 57 levels so far my DPS has not really improved that much.

 

Maybe they are all master/adept iii out, maybe they have the best gear and maybe they are simply much better players??? but DPS on SK's is not very great with multiple mobs your Tap vens will help for sure but if you wanna see numbers try a diff class.

 

You only have to look at the spells/ca damage to know our dps sux. I mean I got an assassin alt to level 10 yesterday and he already got a CA does more than 100 damage, think I was like 40 before I got one of those on the SK (Joke)

[Beldin_]

Have you ever seen the reuse-timer of the assa-spells ? I have also a 70 ranger and i think assa has the same reuses .. and most styles are on 45sec up to 90 second timers.

Btw.: don't give a heck about numbers that some raiders post .. just compare your damage to other people you group with .. so what is for example in Sanct of scaleborn see when i sum up 2-3 hours goes like this : Pala: 150-200, Zerker 200-300,SK/Monk 350-450, Wizzy/Necro/Conji/Swashie 500-600,Ranger 600-700.

And like saif before .. our best DPS is always on massive multi encounters .. the best to test it is go to gazer isle .. run through a temple and kill 8 gazers .. at such fights i constantly do around 1100 dps solo .. too sad there are no dungeons with only that kind of encounters

[Lord Montague]

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G1Joe wrote:

Well just to throw an answer into the DPS question , I can only speak for myself and at level 57 its pretty poor, if I actually go all out to do max dps cos someone has a parser and everyone in the group wants an ego boost...

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I generally tell people who start spamming the group chat with parses - don't.  If I don't ask for the numbers, then I don't want to see them.  When I'm tanking the two things I ask myself are "am I holding aggro sufficiently?" and "am I keeping everyone from dying?"  If I can answer yes to those questions then I'm doing well, I think - I could care less on my DPS at that point as to me that is not my primary role.  If I'm in an off-tanking role that might be a different story but I still hate seeing the numbers because it takes the fun out of it for me.  I come to this game to group with people, adventure, and have fun - not get overly concerned with number crunching.

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G1Joe wrote:

 

You only have to look at the spells/ca damage to know our dps sux. I mean I got an assassin alt to level 10 yesterday and he already got a CA does more than 100 damage, think I was like 40 before I got one of those on the SK (Joke)

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Hate to say it, but you're comparing apples to oranges here.  Not only that but you're exagerating the differences just a tad.  I do agree with what a previous poster said - you can't just look at the straight numbers that a combat art has but also the reuse timers.  It's like our Harm Touch - sure, it does a lot of burst damage and we all know it.  Spread that out across the timespan of 15 minutes, however, and no, it's not a significant contributor to DPS.  The Shadowknights that boast the nice DPS numbers - I am fairly certain they aren't worrying very much with Harm Touch because it's purpose is not to maximize your damage output but to save you in a pinch - nothing more.

[G1Joe]

agreed yes I am exaggerating

agreed yes we do best damage versus multiple mob encounters

 

however I still think our DPS is poor when compared to most classes, you guys might have different experience I am just pointing out mine.

Also I enjoy the char I nearly did give up before my 40 th level but kept going and steadily things have got a little better I just wish we had a few more class defining spells, lvl 65 spell doesnt seem that great on paper but ill defer to those that have it and death march also , could be better imo but again ill defer to those with the levels to know.

I have Int capped to my level but I only have 16AA and do not have the 68% crit that again may change things significantly.

 

[Ranta]

Sorry to sidetrack a little. Is raiding the only way to get high end equipments in EQ2? Just wondering. Didn't like that WoW was a raider's game.

[Ultimatum]

Ok, for all the naysayers and non-believers I offer you all a parse to illustrate the point of the few of us who are sticking with our argument that SKs can in fact DPS.  This parse program isn't my favorite, but it is the only one I could find at the time.  Keep in mind the way this parser calculates DPS is different for each person because of the way it calculates when combat started for each person (Instead of a more accurate parse that would calculate everyone's DPS based on the exact time everyone started the raid, which would have the same number for each person)  That said, the parser still accurately records TOTAL DAMAGE which, by nature, is what really matters because if calculated off the exact same amount of time spent on the raid for each person, the order od total damage would be the same as the order of DPS.This parse was taken in Gates of Akhet'Aken when everyone was lvl 70 and we wanted to do the T6 zones for AAs and to see how much of an impact AAs really had.  It is completely unaltered besides changing everyne's names to their respective classes.  I think the total damage numbers speak for themselves:

[SonnyA]

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Rantaro wrote:
Sorry to sidetrack a little. Is raiding the only way to get high end equipments in EQ2? Just wondering. Didn't like that WoW was a raider's game.

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Yes, without raiding the best you can hope for is relic armor (do a search, plenty of info on that) as Vyemms trash mobs can be done with a single group.

There are also a few nice heritage items which compares to fabled gear (raid drops).

But as has been pointed out plenty of times before. If you don't raid, then you have little need for raid drops to survive your everyday grind.

[Dragonsfire73]

First I must say that I love playing my SK because he fits my play style and is fun to play. I didn't choose to play SK to be the best raid tank or nuker chose SK because it’s a fun class that has many uses. Here are my observations.

 

 As an SK I don't really plan on doing much in the way of being the MT on T7 raids, but I can and I have without issue. The only issue for me being the MT in a raid is of course agro control. A well balanced group with agro increase on me (dirge etc) I can hold multiple mobs without issue as long as the raid adheres to the DPS in calls. We have a pally that does the same think and tanks just as well or better with some types of mobs. It really comes down to knowing the classes and how to balance the group’s right for each zone. I most often either MA or I am in the MT for my mit buff and dps. Yes I do dps well also. I usually manage to keep in the top 5 of the parsing. The exception to the rule is the short fights where the mages and conj just out burst me.

 

On that note a couple of us took on the rift last night. On the 3rd or 4th named we had a long fight 15+ minutes. Not sure what the name was but she kept dropping all debuffs and her self heals and power regen were just nuts. For the fight we managed over 1 million dps. I managed to keep on top of the list against a ranger, conj, mystic, fury and pally. The pally was the MT with his amends on me. During this fight I managed to get my PT off for over 12K. Anyways, we can dps just fine as a mid lvl wizzy as long as the fights are long fights. Our burst damage is not the best but we can hold our own in the long haul.

 

When I am not the MA, I usually stack my EQ based on the group buffs. My mit is almost always over 4700 regardless of shield etc. I manage to keep all my stats (except agi) above 400-450. Usually I keep my int, sta, str above 500 in a raid group.

EDIT to add comment that in a T7 raid I usually AVG 500-700 DPS depending on mob type and length of fight.

Message Edited by Dragonsfire73 on 07-18-2006 10:55 AM

[wakkogooch]

well, i think on the raiding issue is that SK's have a bad name due to alot of very poorly trained SK's out there, can't dps cause they cast a disease debuff then attack with a devine damage spell. SK's are without a doubt one of the more complicated classes to play, thats the joy of playing one, you have to plan encounters carefully and life will feel like a breeze, you start casting things randomly, then they become useless and you just waste your power pool on ineffective attacks and eventually become an example of other SK's that put us in a position not to get to MT any raids. so my suggestion to any aspiring and especially to the button mashers out there, go back, carefully pick your core spells, study them, practice your combinations and get your act together or betray, and become a pally, they can always use a couple more button mashers

[Beldin_]

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wakkogooch wrote:
well, i think on the raiding issue is that SK's have a bad name due to alot of very poorly trained SK's out there, can't dps cause they cast a disease debuff then attack with a devine damage spell.

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Lol.. i doubt you play a SK yourself .. else tell me what Divine damage spells a SK can cast :smileytongue:

[wakkogooch]

just an example.

[Ophena]

Forgive me, but what does DPS stand for??

signed,

A very new player.....

[Ultimatum]

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Ophena wrote:

Forgive me, but what does DPS stand for??

signed,

A very new player.....

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Damage Per Second.  It refers to how much average continuous damage you can deal to a mob or group of mobs.  Currently Brigands, Summoners, and some Rangers are at the top of the list with around 1800+ DPS.

[Beldin_]

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Razerblaze wrote:

Damage Per Second.  It refers to how much average continuous damage you can deal to a mob or group of mobs.  Currently Brigands, Summoners, and some Rangers are at the top of the list with around 1800+ DPS.

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You forgot the zerkers with over 2000 dps .. lol.

Sorry.. but what i have ever seen is much more like the parses a little higher in the thread. Btw. thanks for the parses so i can see that there are still other peoples where not everyone does "constantly" 2000 dps or more .. like you can sometimes believe when reading the forums

Btw.: I never ever hit 1000 dps with my conjurer .. my ranger never hit 1000 dps after LU#23 .. but my SK can CONSTANTLY hit 1100 dps soloing on Gazer Isle .. lol

[G1Joe]

The reason I presume you can DPS that high is due to being able to pull al lot of mobs that dont do all that much damage to you, whereas some of the other classes can probably churn that kind of DPS on a single target.

[Beldin_]

That was more a kind of joke .. because i nearly never saw any class do over 1000 dps ..  at least not if you sum the fights up over a longer time. Yeah my ranger can hit it on some multi-encounters that are dead in 2 seconds if he starts with rain of arrows. My conji on the only raid i was in after KoS did around 900 against the blackqueen .. there was also a wizzy that did 900 .. but the rest was lower .. so all these 1000+ numbers are really very dependend on group setup, buffs and synergies and so mostly not very helpfull to compare if you don't know the whole picture.

[tooloose]

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Razerblaze wrote:

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AppyH wrote:
SKs can use most standard weapons (not ranged weps though) , but cant dual wield, so you'll be using a 1h+shield when tanking, or a 2h weapon when not. SKs dps is pretty much abysmal, only beating paladins most of the time if that, though they can tank fairly decent, but nowhere close to what a Guardian or Berserker can do, works fine for solo/single grouping and easy x2 raids, but for real raids they are pretty much delegated to offtanks/filling up the raid slots. - Fun to play, but pretty much useless if you want to sometime join a serious endgame raid guild.

Message Edited by AppyH on 07-17-2006 11:57 AM

Message Edited by AppyH on 07-17-2006 11:59 AM

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It's posts like this that make me wonder why A) People who think this way still play an SK, and B) People who think this way find it necessary to comment on a new player's posts with something that will possibly make them not want to play the class

I'll amend this by saying "people who have no concept of the SK class and do nothing but mash buttons have abysmal DPS, but people who know how to time debuffs and spells, and can play the class well can compete with T2 DPS with not much problem"  That said, learn the class and ask questions and you'll have nothing to worry about.  Don't let people's misconceptions with the class scare you away from trying it out.

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Well if you take an SK to T7, it will be very clear that SKs just are NOT MT material for raids. I am in a raiding guild and along with the other level 70 SKs, we usually go along for the ride. Zerks and gaurds are MTs for raids, we usually assist MA bruisers or MA bards- yeah, thats how far down the totem pole we are. I don't want to scare anyone off from the class but we are nowhere near anything as usefull as a zerk or gaurd in raid MT roles. In group xp/pvp MT we are about as good as a zerk or gaurd 3 levels below us-which is fine for everywhere I have seen.

 

But dont kid yourself, if you want to be raid quality MT, go gaurdian or zerk. If you want to dominate one on one pvp, go SK. But we all know how often we get one on one pvp.

 

Agreeing with Razerblaze though on the T2-4areas. In the lower levels, an SK is fun to play.

[tooloose]

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G1Joe wrote:
The reason I presume you can DPS that high is due to being able to pull al lot of mobs that dont do all that much damage to you, whereas some of the other classes can probably churn that kind of DPS on a single target.

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Tap Veins AE when groups of mobs come in to get high DPS, single target use pestilent touch and the int line AA to get crit chance to 70%. I have hit for 17,000+ plus with many times (Most times its only about 12,000 though). Once every 15 minutes, SKs are the kings of all things.

Message Edited by tooloose on 07-27-2006 01:08 PM