SK raid MT???

Sine · 08-27-2005, 05:18 AM

Just posted by Moorgard. -------------------------------------------

As for health differences among the fighter classes, that is in place already. Yesterday's Beta update included changes to health and power pools, which rebalanced the class multipliers for everyone. For Fighters, it now goes like this:

Warriors - Highest health pool, lowest power pool

Brawlers - Middle health pool, middle power pool

Crusaders - Lowest health pool, highest power pool --------------------------------------------

Better hope we get a higher mitigation or avoid or parry or something. Otherwise we will not be raid MT due to spike damage absorbtion.

vTenebr · 08-27-2005, 08:20 AM

Sineri wrote:Just posted by Moorgard. -------------------------------------------
As for health differences among the fighter classes, that is in place already. Yesterday's Beta update included changes to health and power pools, which rebalanced the class multipliers for everyone. For Fighters, it now goes like this:

Warriors - Highest health pool, lowest power pool

Brawlers - Middle health pool, middle power pool

Crusaders - Lowest health pool, highest power pool --------------------------------------------
Better hope we get a higher mitigation or avoid or parry or something. Otherwise we will not be raid MT due to spike damage absorbtion.

And the change there is what? Isn't that how it's always been? ;/

Rylight · 08-27-2005, 08:40 AM

lol, no, we used to be lowest health and lowest powerpool:smileyvery-happy: ....... ok I cant really confirm that , but our powerpool was horrible (or maybe our spells were just to power consuming)

Giral · 08-27-2005, 10:41 AM

lol thats exactly what i was thinkin Haha Lowest/Lowest : )

i know the defensive stance is suppose to be working well on the Taking damage so if your MT in def/stance using LifeTap and the right concentration you should be able to MT almost anything

Off/stance i still dont know if there is enough of a differance from Def to give us a place in a group if we not Mt Why pick an Sk to be in a group if 3 scouts are LFG are dmg should be more than half of a scouts i dont think scouts are Half as powerfull as Wizzies so we should be exactly the same amount of dmg behind scouts as Scouts to Wizzies in Def/stance and less than Half of that when we in Offensive so we are still a Viable choice for a group if we aren't MT

Message Edited by Giralus on 08-26-2005 11:55 PM

Sine · 08-27-2005, 05:10 PM

vTenebrae wrote:
Sineri wrote:Just posted by Moorgard. -------------------------------------------
As for health differences among the fighter classes, that is in place already. Yesterday's Beta update included changes to health and power pools, which rebalanced the class multipliers for everyone. For Fighters, it now goes like this:

Warriors - Highest health pool, lowest power pool

Brawlers - Middle health pool, middle power pool

Crusaders - Lowest health pool, highest power pool --------------------------------------------
Better hope we get a higher mitigation or avoid or parry or something. Otherwise we will not be raid MT due to spike damage absorbtion.
And the change there is what? Isn't that how it's always been? ;/

Yeah this is how is has been. But hasn't this community been fighting like hell to get us on equal footing raid MT wise? This is only going to reinforce that guardian > all other warriors for raid MT. You can play 2nd fiddle if you want, but I sure as hell am not gonna lay just lay down. The

Dogm · 08-27-2005, 08:32 PM

Yes, I really hate this.

Raw HPs > all.

The reason for this is casters. If you cant survive a 4k ice comet (mitigated down from 12k) then the healers cant heal you. And yes I am on beta. In almost full Fabled I have 4k hps unbuffed (5800 on live). If this isn't a huge change I dont know what is. And unless they reduce how much NPCs can nuke for it will be VERY hard for us to tank any mob that casts big nukes.

Oh and before you say buffs will help out. Most HPs from buffs come from STA, and guess what they changed to lower our HPS how many HP we get per sta. On live we get about 12.5 hp per sta. On Beta 4.3ish per sta. HUGE change, and means that those great sta buffs that shaman give will be worthless, and only pure +HP buffs will matter.

And guardian HPs where only higher then ours because of buff stacking, and we where definately ahead of brawlers

Message Edited by Dogmae on 08-27-2005 09:33 AM

Zoradan · 08-27-2005, 09:12 PM

Yep no mater what they do almost always raw hp is > anything.

This is bad :smileysad: and very disapointing to see roll out, I feel even worse for Pallies, the "2nd best tank" with 2k less hp... oh pick him to tank! Ya right....

Sasaki Koji · 08-28-2005, 02:00 AM

Dogmae wrote:

Yes, I really hate this.

Raw HPs > all.

The reason for this is casters. If you cant survive a 4k ice comet (mitigated down from 12k) then the healers cant heal you. And yes I am on beta. In almost full Fabled I have 4k hps unbuffed (5800 on live). If this isn't a huge change I dont know what is. And unless they reduce how much NPCs can nuke for it will be VERY hard for us to tank any mob that casts big nukes.

Oh and before you say buffs will help out. Most HPs from buffs come from STA, and guess what they changed to lower our HPS how many HP we get per sta. On live we get about 12.5 hp per sta. On Beta 4.3ish per sta. HUGE change, and means that those great sta buffs that shaman give will be worthless, and only pure +HP buffs will matter.

And guardian HPs where only higher then ours because of buff stacking, and we where definately ahead of brawlers

Message Edited by Dogmae on 08-27-2005 09:33 AM

They were suspost to change what NPC's nuked for. Remembe they removed the ability for MANY npcs to use super-powered versions of our spells. Hopefully that means King Drayerk can no longer cast Ice Comet for 10k damage SMILEY . But its true, if they Still have that '[expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] Strength' in their spells and hits, then theres no way paladins and SK wont ever be picked for MT, simply because we'll easily be one-shotted. on the other hand.. it was written that our HP differences wont be so Signficant as Paladin with the same gear as Guard in the same group having 4000hp as opposed to the guard haveing 5500hp. Moor Said it wouldnt be that significant of a change. More like you 4000 and guard 4300 or so.

(my post on the Brawler post on tanking..)

If it appears like this, then I for one am not worried. The way a Shadowknighs life taps are looking, and a paladins heals, it easily makes up for whatever life difference they show. Currently weve had one buff turned into a life tap proc with a better proc rate, one spell life tap amount doubled, one spell turned from a silly nuke into a physical/disease attack for a really good amount, our ward changed into a reactive life-tap/damage shield (hope its self castable now), our group lifetap proc rate increased, and our stuns work on epics now. I know, In a good group we shouldnt even have to touch these skills, but that was before the changes. They also lowered mob damage (including epics) and HP across board. We just have to wait and see whats going to happen. However i belive Brawlers should have the most HP,since when they get hit it hurts more than everyone else, plus theyre suspost to have better trained bodies, which is why they dont wear heavy armor in the first place (that and its hard to jump kick in vanguard). I also dont think Fighters of any class should Be able to buff Defense (except the Defensive stance) for anything but the group. This way whoevers in the guards group would have equal defense anyways. Given that, whoever is to be MT, group them with a guard. Being as paranoid as I am, however, i can see SOME raid leaders grouping guards w/o any other fights just to maintain thier position (yeah im that paranoid). Hopefully it wont hurt thier feelings too bad not to MT, i know some guards that get REALLY mad when they arent tank in a group (i fired them for sucking). Looking forward to out-tanking guards because of my Uber life taps SMILEY (if they dont pull out the Nerf guns on us again... Sigh)

EDIT: oh BTW. its true about them De-superpowering our spells on NPC's. Filthe in Serpent sewers can Harm Touch for the same amout I can SMILEY and hes lvl21 +++ heroic (This was on Test). one time he instant killed me cause he HT for app I Harm touch's max damge, other time it was lower and i was only near-death SMILEY . I expect to see ALL mobs this way. If he were anything like on the live servers that HT would have been instant kill for over 2000 damage. Glad it wasnt =)

EDIT2: oh but then again, HT on live suxxors SMILEY so i prolly woulda taken like 300damage or so heh.

Kojiro, 50 SK of Lucan D'Lere

Xertanth, 22 SK of Test

Message Edited by Sasaki Kojiro on 08-27-2005 03:05 PM

Xiziz · 08-28-2005, 02:21 AM

Most peeps i know are rerolling to warrior class or going on to Caster type DPS. I went Swash and from what im reading ill have 2 utterly worthless characters in EQ2. Crusaders are not very welcome in most raid guilds now on my server most accept one fro Despoiling mist and some other Buffs. Most Function just fine with 4 or five Zerks and Guards to rotate in there line up.

And please dont take offense But SK is barely limping in functionality unless in high end gear. From what ive read and heard from our guild leader who is Beta on DOF Crusaders will be few and far between in high end raiding content. Luck to ya lads and hopefully they will change our Class, But making our Health pool so low and just increasing our power? What [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] good are we if we cant stay alive. Say good by to off tank SK's And MT pfffft, never happen

Sasaki Koji · 08-28-2005, 02:24 AM

Xiziz wrote:

Most peeps i know are rerolling to warrior class or going on to Caster type DPS. I went Swash and from what im reading ill have 2 utterly worthless characters in EQ2. Crusaders are not very welcome in most raid guilds now on my server most accept one fro Despoiling mist and some other Buffs. Most Function just fine with 4 or five Zerks and Guards to rotate in there line up.

And please dont take offense But SK is barely limping in functionality unless in high end gear. From what ive read and heard from our guild leader who is Beta on DOF Crusaders will be few and far between in high end raiding content. Luck to ya lads and hopefully they will change our Class, But making our Health pool so low and just increasing our power? What [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] good are we if we cant stay alive. Say good by to off tank SK's And MT pfffft, never happen

I really hope it doesnt end up that way SMILEY

I Really rather not have to Re-roll just to enjoy the game...

Giral · 08-28-2005, 04:08 AM

i made a post about the Player made gimping of Sk's on another thread but let me just put out the basics of it

Group= Templar,Mystic,Assasin,Ranger,Gaurd and SK "Who is MT ? Guard is he has more HP and resists" group starts Guard loses agro "Sk" grabs them and Group says "No biggy we just gettin started", next pull Guard pulls and loses his target on the mob and hes takin damage healer heals pulls agro "Sk" pulls mob again ,Guard says Sorry lost my target some how " Group says dont sweat it we got it , next the guard runs thru agro and dont stop "SK" pulls again guard says " oops sorry didnt see agro" Group Say "No Prob " . k by now Sk has tanked every encounter with out the Major buffs the MT gets Not One time did he get a thank you or a compliment BUT the Guard scr3ws up to no end and its no big deal LOL funny BUT sadly true , Now the 5th time Guard loses agro Templar says let the "SK" tank for awhile im gettin tired of healing .So now you SK is MT you start workin the mobs and never lose agro you go 40 minutes straight fighting group is like Yeah we Kickin [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]in [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] now sweet ! Whats the Guardian thinkin?? this SK rocks Great Tank OR SK's Suck they one of the worst tanks in the game Everybody knows that! so guard see guild chat says Hey whats up His guildies say " nothin much what u doin Guardian ?" guard says "im in a group and they have a SK tankin instead of me " Guild says Are you F'knn Serious Man they are a bunch of Noob's get out of that group they goin to Wipe and you goin to get Debt BIG time" Guard says "Yeah your right they are stupid"to the Group guardian says "Sorry guys but my guild needs me i have to go now " Group says Ok later Man good meetin you hope to group you again we was kickin BUTT" Guard Chuckles to himself wyle he's portin out and he's thinkin "Suckers"

Is this true ? does this happen? Yes why did i never have a problem findin a group to MT for until 3 to 4 months into game? why all of a sudden isnt a SK a great choice for MT THE reason you hear is Guards do it "EASIER" Period. Is that really all there is to all the guilds on every single server ? what is the Easiest possible way to get this done ? how Lame ! How Boring ! who the hell want's every single encounter to be a 100% success rate what kind of f'kn fun is that ? Level 50 are bored out of there minds cuase all they do is endless Raids over and over Except for a few lvl 50 toons that arent that much of a help in some players eye's When you hear Sk's have tanked the Entire game and All End game Raids and then listen to the crap of SK's are a sucky MT it's an Oxymoron. The only [Removed for Content] on live with Sk as main tank is the Player Base that wants the game to be Absolutly no challenge at all That wants a 100% guarante on every single fight So they use the same Boring group same set up for months on end and then complain there bored wyle others are bored cuase they cant even get in 1 of those raids over months and months what a Joke . and we Can also MA best in game that has been pointed out also But does taht change anything Nope almost all the posts hear are from Sk's who cant get an invite to Raid except a few who raid all the time becuase they actually have Intelligent guild people who understand SK's are very usefull in any condition

I'm sorry but with the re-vamp alot of the player base is goin to stick with the tried and true method of Guard for MT all the time Thats how they did it for months And re-vamp shows Poeple Hate Drastic change so they will stick with guards and never realize the possibilities of SK's as mt . And if your an Sk and dont want to MT then your offensive stance should do DPs at between 1/2 to 3/4 of a predator so you can function in an off tank position

Sasaki Koji · 08-28-2005, 04:45 AM

Giralus wrote:

i made a post about the Player made gimping of Sk's on another thread but let me just put out the basics of it

Group= Templar,Mystic,Assasin,Ranger,Gaurd and SK "Who is MT ? Guard is he has more HP and resists" group starts Guard loses agro "Sk" grabs them and Group says "No biggy we just gettin started", next pull Guard pulls and loses his target on the mob and hes takin damage healer heals pulls agro "Sk" pulls mob again ,Guard says Sorry lost my target some how " Group says dont sweat it we got it , next the guard runs thru agro and dont stop "SK" pulls again guard says " oops sorry didnt see agro" Group Say "No Prob " . k by now Sk has tanked every encounter with out the Major buffs the MT gets Not One time did he get a thank you or a compliment BUT the Guard scr3ws up to no end and its no big deal LOL funny BUT sadly true , Now the 5th time Guard loses agro Templar says let the "SK" tank for awhile im gettin tired of healing .So now you SK is MT you start workin the mobs and never lose agro you go 40 minutes straight fighting group is like Yeah we Kickin [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]in [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] now sweet ! Whats the Guardian thinkin?? this SK rocks Great Tank OR SK's Suck they one of the worst tanks in the game Everybody knows that! so guard see guild chat says Hey whats up His guildies say " nothin much what u doin Guardian ?" guard says "im in a group and they have a SK tankin instead of me " Guild says Are you F'knn Serious Man they are a bunch of Noob's get out of that group they goin to Wipe and you goin to get Debt BIG time" Guard says "Yeah your right they are stupid"to the Group guardian says "Sorry guys but my guild needs me i have to go now " Group says Ok later Man good meetin you hope to group you again we was kickin BUTT" Guard Chuckles to himself wyle he's portin out and he's thinkin "Suckers"

         Is this true ? does this happen? Yes why did i never have a problem findin a group to MT for until 3 to 4 months into game? why all of a sudden isnt a SK a great choice for MT THE reason you hear is Guards do it "EASIER" Period. Is that really all there is to all the guilds on every single server ? what is the Easiest possible way to get this done ? how Lame ! How Boring ! who the hell want's every single encounter to be a 100% success rate what kind of f'kn fun is that ? Level 50 are bored out of there minds cuase all they do is endless Raids over and over Except for a few lvl 50 toons that arent that much of a help in some players eye's When you hear Sk's have tanked the Entire game and All End game Raids and then listen to the crap of SK's are a sucky MT it's an Oxymoron. The only [Removed for Content] on live with Sk as main tank is the Player Base that wants the game to be Absolutly no challenge at all That wants a 100% guarante on every single fight So they use the same Boring group same set up for months on end and then complain there bored wyle others are bored cuase they cant even get in 1 of those raids over months and months what a Joke . and we Can also MA best in game that has been pointed out also But does taht change anything Nope almost all the posts hear are from Sk's who cant get an invite to Raid except a few who raid all the time becuase they actually have Intelligent guild people who understand SK's are very usefull in any condition

              I'm sorry but with the re-vamp alot of the player base is goin to stick with the tried and true method of Guard for MT all the time Thats how they did it for months And re-vamp shows Poeple Hate Drastic change so they will stick with guards and never realize the possibilities of SK's as mt . And if your an Sk and dont want to MT then your offensive stance should do DPs at between 1/2 to 3/4 of a predator so you can function in an off tank position

Lol, that has happened to me many times. I was helping some people Do thier heritage quest in Lavastorm one day, full group of SK, Guard, Inquis, Temp, and assassin. Well, i noticed the guard had just turned lvl50, so being my funny SK self, is said 'OMG guard your lvl50 now, YOU TANK /grin' So he tanked and got beat up some, and i followed his lead... all up until he got my Girlfriend killed because he'd rather train mobs than fight them. So yeah, i fired his [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] on the spot and just took agro like it wasnt nothing. He eventually gave up and switched to a 2h weapon SMILEY . No one gets my Princess killed, NO ONE! rar.

Youre also right about no one ever blames the guard. that same group it was just 'no prob, we can dig'. Man its frusterating. The guard doesnt even have to be a GOOD guard, hes just a guard so hes instantly capable of ANYTHING. what a load of crap... I was in a raid and pulled agro simply by autoattacking, and who do they yell at, me of course. me me me [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] them SK and their good agroing! I feared they would tie me up and beat me with a stick. hoping candy would pop out!

I love my job!

Kojiro 50th SK of Lucan D'Lere

Message Edited by Sasaki Kojiro on 08-27-2005 05:49 PM

Elymri · 08-28-2005, 04:53 AM

all i can say is .. what kind of drugs are they using

to mess with something so fundamental for a tank class as hitpoints

I was pleasantly surprized about the revamp, I even thought that I would be tanking some raid mobs but nooo ill just be a dps class with nerfed dps.. yay me

Sasaki Koji · 08-28-2005, 04:57 AM

Extacy, Crack, Cocaine, Speed, Ridaline, Something worse than all those, and all of the above

EDIT: Prolly some Anti-Depressants too i dunno...

Message Edited by Sasaki Kojiro on 08-27-2005 05:58 PM

Xiziz · 08-28-2005, 09:34 AM

Giralus seems to be having Fun as SK , at least he is it seems .More and more peeps are noticing the unbalance in tank classes. My take on it is we have 2 tank classes Offensive and Defensive . Guardian Defensive, Zerker Offensive. where does SK fit in ? Some say Support tank we get Mit debuff ,group LT procs ,and some Armor Buffs making us support tanks. Simply put people have done the math, they have broke down the numbers on what we bring to the table. What ever we bring to the table othe rclasses can do better, DPS Put in assasin or ranger we dont even hold a candle to thier numbers, you need Debuffs and Tank buffs the shaman classes or Druid classes get Various Abilites with higher effect then SK. They may not be on the Same streams but our STR bdebuffs are pretty weak compared to the heat and cold debuffs the other classes can pump into an epic. And our Disease debuffs pffft. our only saving grace is despoing mist which is pretty iffy to stick. The bottom line is we are like a handy man some one to handle small jobs you dont want to pay a Contractor to do.

Now I am strictly speaking from my Expierence on my server. Seems Giralus and Phoz have different expierences on thier respective servers. So before you go lighting up my post and start saying i dont know what i am talking about i am stating this is my expierence on my server. Guilds that are succesfull are Doing Drayek with 2 groups zalak 2 groups, Venekor ,Vox 4 groups, And the contested are still hit and miss. :smileyhappy: They got it down , Ive asked as to why these guilds dont except more then 1 or 2 SK's and its all the Same answer, What you do we can find another class to do it better.

pawnipt · 08-28-2005, 11:31 AM

In the current combat system im usually in the main tank group buffing the MT with Gift of armament (to stack on some Mitigation) and Calculated evasion (to help avoid some attacks for the MT) and Unholy Strength for some stat buffage. To the MT the mitigation and avoidance is most important, and a Crusader is able to give both proving to be a useful main tank buffer (other classes may be able to give more Mitigation and avoidance, but theres always the question of what stacks with what and that every little bit helps. So you are saying in the combat changes this usefulness is removed???!!!

Vrug · 08-28-2005, 12:00 PM

I am a level 50 SK who has tanked allot of the lower tier epics- IE both Kings( well King Z before the new and improved version) Angler, The Drakotas for Priz etc. All I can say is it is easier to use a guardian- they where always able to get aggro back if they where worth a [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] much quicker then a SK especially in a multiple group encounter. Now with the new patch I discover my Health is 1900 HPs lower when self buffed- and my mana pool is lower by like 200. Explain to me how I will be able to handle even a named with say a Ice comet that hits for 5k. Figure our Master 2 Ruinious Touch does 2-4k of damage so you know that mobs will be doing the same. Then comes the fact we were suppose to need STR and Wis as our main stats. Well our new Plaque sword buff is a INT buff (100 at adapt 3) so since this is our offensive buff we will also need to get our INT up if we want to do any DPS. I dont care how much mitigation they give us- we are going to take a beating and barely have more HP then the Wiz in our group. Our taunts are still weak, we have only 2 taunts (1 of which is a taunt over time) and 1 taunting attack (that cannot be used on a ^^^). Our group buff is now watered down and is just a proc, its level 51 replacement is basically the same thing and still no buff to disease resist or Slash/Pierce/Crush.

I was happy with the changes in combat other then the group buff. Now I really question why I have tried to prove that the SK class is worth anything. I pray they come to there sense our I feel our class will be in trouble.

Xiziz · 08-28-2005, 06:30 PM

1900 hp thats laughable, Sony why dont you just remove SK were worse then in EQ 1 you dont even remotely understand the frustration of your players who use this class id rather you say look were removing the class from the game it serves no purpose appologies for wasting your time

Sasaki Koji · 08-28-2005, 08:03 PM

Xiziz wrote:
1900 hp thats laughable, Sony why dont you just remove SK were worse then in EQ 1 you dont even remotely understand the frustration of your players who use this class id rather you say look were removing the class from the game it serves no purpose appologies for wasting your time

No no, dont remove it, instead change it to Jester with -50 to all stats.. and 1hp

Sasaki Koji · 08-28-2005, 08:08 PM

Vrugor wrote:

I am a level 50 SK who has tanked allot of the lower tier epics- IE both Kings( well King Z before the new and improved version) Angler, The Drakotas for Priz etc. All I can say is it is easier to use a guardian- they where always able to get aggro back if they where worth a [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] much quicker then a SK especially in a multiple group encounter. Now with the new patch I discover my Health is 1900 HPs lower when self buffed- and my mana pool is lower by like 200. Explain to me how I will be able to handle even a named with say a Ice comet that hits for 5k. Figure our Master 2 Ruinious Touch does 2-4k of damage so you know that mobs will be doing the same. Then comes the fact we were suppose to need STR and Wis as our main stats. Well our new Plaque sword buff is a INT buff (100 at adapt 3) so since this is our offensive buff we will also need to get our INT up if we want to do any DPS. I dont care how much mitigation they give us- we are going to take a beating and barely have more HP then the Wiz in our group. Our taunts are still weak, we have only 2 taunts (1 of which is a taunt over time) and 1 taunting attack (that cannot be used on a ^^^). Our group buff is now watered down and is just a proc, its level 51 replacement is basically the same thing and still no buff to disease resist or Slash/Pierce/Crush.

I was happy with the changes in combat other then the group buff. Now I really question why I have tried to prove that the SK class is worth anything. I pray they come to there sense our I feel our class will be in trouble.

Dont forget Blasphemy is one our tauts. and Destructive slam as i see should hit epics, but it looks like they took the Taunt out of it so yea i guess 2 taunts... Insideous Whisper and Blasphemy

Giral · 08-28-2005, 08:24 PM

lol yeah and have are squire stand there jugglin health and mana potions/totems and they should have made the new monkeys in the game be are pets. Que the benny hill theme song

Kagatoey · 08-28-2005, 11:33 PM

Eh...not surprising to me. They might as well shove us in VLA. =/

Eatu · 08-29-2005, 09:41 AM

i just recently did some tests myself with the new nerf to HP gained per stamina and it is ridiculous. I have the master 1 version of the Unholy Str (beta it now increases str and sta of group by 42). Before the new ratios it gave over 600 hp to us and group *wohoo*.... after the buff the master 1 gives us a whoppin 200 or so hp.....WOW that is sad, thats like a 2/3 decrease in hp. Just dreadful.

SaraBH · 08-29-2005, 12:49 PM

first /ooc I see a hole lot of dogging are class but i didnt play a Shadow Knight for any other reson then this sounds like a fun class. I have loved playing my Shadow Knight and have always been abile to addapt to every change that has come. Should we truely become a worthless class then I for one will love proving everyone wrong and doing the impossible. if you dont Roleplay pay no attantion to the lower statmente hehe its kind of mean but ha im a Shadow Knight.

Now /Roleplay What is this I here you pitiful eqcuses for Shadow Knights. Your gods should feel ashamed at you all. Noone ever said are lives would be easy, We are Shadow Knights, show some back bone. Adapt and overcome there is nothing that we can not do. I for one see no reason to lay down and die without a fight. Should I die, then I for one will die with my boots up to the rim in the blood of my enemys and there will be talls written in my wake. Your lack of faith disgustes me and should we ever meet on the field Pray we stand on the same side.

vTenebr · 08-29-2005, 01:54 PM

All those complaining now, complained before. I hate to say it, but some people will never ever be happy. A lot of these changes are occuring to other classes as well. The guardians had an entire line of buffs that used to stack all on top of each other. The hp disparity will still be there, but it won't be in terms of THOUSANDS of hitpoints, like it is now. It'll be a few hundred. The idea is that while Guardians will still be the "biggier, beefier" tanks, the rest of us are supposed to be VIABLE alternatives. As it stands now, we're really not.. unless people are willing to work that much harder. That doesn't mean we were gimped. We just had a different role. It just wasn't as MT for most raid mobs. (Groups were different, we were always excellent in group settings) Before everyone goes into a blind tizzy, lets actually see how it works. I understand a few of us beta test and some are complaining. BUT.. people complained non-stop before the revamp that we were gimped (we weren't), people will complain AFTER the revamp. Those people seem to frequent the boards. Those who don't hate the class, and don't have envy about the other fighters, get 1 starred to hell and back for DARING to speak against the whining majority. If you dare say "No, seriously.. I think these are positive changes" or previously "no, seriously.. we're not gimped" you were slammed. So, those who don't post and only glean info... Don't believe the constant dissention, griping, and complaints.. check for yourself. You may be pleasantly surprised at the outcome.

Message Edited by vTenebrae on 08-29-2005 02:57 AM

pawnipt · 08-29-2005, 02:10 PM

Hope they take this change into account, and maybe add something useful to this buff.... Didnt they take out the AGI buff of it and now STA is nerfed so whats the use of this skill really, isnt much useful anymore is it..

Sasaki Koji · 08-29-2005, 04:27 PM

SaraBH wrote:

first /ooc I see a hole lot of dogging are class but i didnt play a Shadow Knight for any other reson then this sounds like a fun class. I have loved playing my Shadow Knight and have always been abile to addapt to every change that has come. Should we truely become a worthless class then I for one will love proving everyone wrong and doing the impossible. if you dont Roleplay pay no attantion to the lower statmente hehe its kind of mean but ha im a Shadow Knight.

Now /Roleplay What is this I here you pitiful eqcuses for Shadow Knights. Your gods should feel ashamed at you all. Noone ever said are lives would be easy, We are Shadow Knights, show some back bone. Adapt and overcome there is nothing that we can not do. I for one see no reason to lay down and die without a fight. Should I die, then I for one will die with my boots up to the rim in the blood of my enemys and there will be talls written in my wake. Your lack of faith disgustes me and should we ever meet on the field Pray we stand on the same side.

I have had to prove my abilities to others day after day. But they treat me as if im a criple again. There are only a handful of people that know my true abilities as a shadowknight, and other than raids, they are the only ones i perfere to travel with. Everyone else can just rot, decay, suffer, and die... in that order.

Sine · 08-29-2005, 08:36 PM

Things may be okay HP wise. Been reading the paladin boards b/c what generally happens to them happens to us. Go to this < a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=10&message.id=14678&page=2and" > link < /a > scroll down to see the SS of hps. Apparently Crusaders get 4.5 hps per 1 STA and guards get 4.75 hp per 1 STA. So even at 400 STA they would only have 100hps more then us. I can live with that and combined with superior disease resists we definitely have a spot in the rotation to MT raids.

edit: pwned by html

Message Edited by Sineri on 08-29-2005 03:21 PM

Message Edited by Sineri on 08-29-2005 03:27 PM

Gaedan · 08-29-2005, 09:26 PM

It seems to me (and though I do not have level 50 experience in this game, I have played tanks in other MMOs to raid levels), that SKs still have a spot in situations where you have a Guardian tanking as being a self-sufficient off-tank, or, with our disease resist and lifetaps, that the increased power pool will create a situation where the total amount of HPs we have including our wards and lifetap heals will exceed those of a guardian by essentially converting power into health. Granted, resists being what they are, and high damage attacks (always a risk in any game), I can see where people would have the perception that all you need is a pile of walking HP (like EQ1). As with any major group role (tanking, healing, crowd control), perception is 7/10s of mastery. If nobody believes that a SK can tank (or a druid can heal, or, well, in EQ1, say, a bard can CC), then you'll never change their minds. Just like in WOW (I have a level 60 Protection spec Paladin), nobody would believe I can tank until we had a warrior die on Gen. Drakk and I stepped up and tanked the rest of the fight. Not trying to brag, but anyone familiar with the game or game mechanics (or just the whinefest that is their forums), will know that this is a similar issue. *shrugs* My 2c.

Sasaki Koji · 08-30-2005, 06:48 AM

Gaedan wrote:
It seems to me (and though I do not have level 50 experience in this game, I have played tanks in other MMOs to raid levels), that SKs still have a spot in situations where you have a Guardian tanking as being a self-sufficient off-tank, or, with our disease resist and lifetaps, that the increased power pool will create a situation where the total amount of HPs we have including our wards and lifetap heals will exceed those of a guardian by essentially converting power into health. Granted, resists being what they are, and high damage attacks (always a risk in any game), I can see where people would have the perception that all you need is a pile of walking HP (like EQ1).

As with any major group role (tanking, healing, crowd control), perception is 7/10s of mastery. If nobody believes that a SK can tank (or a druid can heal, or, well, in EQ1, say, a bard can CC), then you'll never change their minds. Just like in WOW (I have a level 60 Protection spec Paladin), nobody would believe I can tank until we had a warrior die on Gen. Drakk and I stepped up and tanked the rest of the fight. Not trying to brag, but anyone familiar with the game or game mechanics (or just the whinefest that is their forums), will know that this is a similar issue.

*shrugs*

My 2c.

Absolutely right. ALMOST everyone has done the guardian thing since relase. Tho on some servers i have heard of Guardian being offtank and PLD/SK being MT sometimes, but on once. I belive now, before Re-vamp, that i could fight on-par with guardians if i got the same Raidlvl buffs they usually are given. I dont know if the re-vamp will change peoples attitudes towards this. On my server, many raid guilds 'Buffed out the guard' with fabled gear and everyone else came second. and even when the guard dies in a raid, and mind you a simple one, no one would care to heal me because im not a guardian SMILEY

. I dont mind tha tho, since i didnt have any buffs worth preserving. Ii hope people will come to thier senses with this revamp, Seeing as Crusader and Guardian are becomeing more Equal. Truthfully, if a mob does no Heat damage, Cold Damage, Disease damage, or Divine damage, I dont see a reason for Warriors or Crusaders to just flip a coin now SMILEY

. What needs more focus now is Brawlers, who seem to still be getting the low end of tanking.

08-27-2005, 08:20 AM	#2
vTenebr General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 254	Sineri wrote:Just posted by Moorgard. ------------------------------------------- As for health differences among the fighter classes, that is in place already. Yesterday's Beta update included changes to health and power pools, which rebalanced the class multipliers for everyone. For Fighters, it now goes like this: Warriors - Highest health pool, lowest power pool Brawlers - Middle health pool, middle power pool Crusaders - Lowest health pool, highest power pool -------------------------------------------- Better hope we get a higher mitigation or avoid or parry or something. Otherwise we will not be raid MT due to spike damage absorbtion. And the change there is what? Isn't that how it's always been? ;/

08-27-2005, 08:40 AM	#3
Rylight Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 572	lol, no, we used to be lowest health and lowest powerpool:smileyvery-happy: ....... ok I cant really confirm that , but our powerpool was horrible (or maybe our spells were just to power consuming) __________________ Episode 2 part 2 of my MOVIE series, Rylight the chronicles of pain can be found here http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=screen&message.id=14051

08-27-2005, 10:41 AM	#4
Giral General Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 894	lol thats exactly what i was thinkin Haha Lowest/Lowest : ) i know the defensive stance is suppose to be working well on the Taking damage so if your MT in def/stance using LifeTap and the right concentration you should be able to MT almost anything Off/stance i still dont know if there is enough of a differance from Def to give us a place in a group if we not Mt Why pick an Sk to be in a group if 3 scouts are LFG are dmg should be more than half of a scouts i dont think scouts are Half as powerfull as Wizzies so we should be exactly the same amount of dmg behind scouts as Scouts to Wizzies in Def/stance and less than Half of that when we in Offensive so we are still a Viable choice for a group if we aren't MT Message Edited by Giralus on 08-26-2005 11:55 PM __________________ who's more of a Fool, the fool or the fool who follows the fool. . . Account Terminated as of 12-27-08, RMT=Evil

08-27-2005, 05:10 PM	#5
Sine Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 57	vTenebrae wrote: Sineri wrote:Just posted by Moorgard. ------------------------------------------- As for health differences among the fighter classes, that is in place already. Yesterday's Beta update included changes to health and power pools, which rebalanced the class multipliers for everyone. For Fighters, it now goes like this: Warriors - Highest health pool, lowest power pool Brawlers - Middle health pool, middle power pool Crusaders - Lowest health pool, highest power pool -------------------------------------------- Better hope we get a higher mitigation or avoid or parry or something. Otherwise we will not be raid MT due to spike damage absorbtion. And the change there is what? Isn't that how it's always been? ;/ Yeah this is how is has been. But hasn't this community been fighting like hell to get us on equal footing raid MT wise? This is only going to reinforce that guardian > all other warriors for raid MT. You can play 2nd fiddle if you want, but I sure as hell am not gonna lay just lay down. The

08-27-2005, 08:32 PM	#6
Dogm General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 239	Yes, I really hate this. Raw HPs > all. The reason for this is casters. If you cant survive a 4k ice comet (mitigated down from 12k) then the healers cant heal you. And yes I am on beta. In almost full Fabled I have 4k hps unbuffed (5800 on live). If this isn't a huge change I dont know what is. And unless they reduce how much NPCs can nuke for it will be VERY hard for us to tank any mob that casts big nukes. Oh and before you say buffs will help out. Most HPs from buffs come from STA, and guess what they changed to lower our HPS how many HP we get per sta. On live we get about 12.5 hp per sta. On Beta 4.3ish per sta. HUGE change, and means that those great sta buffs that shaman give will be worthless, and only pure +HP buffs will matter. And guardian HPs where only higher then ours because of buff stacking, and we where definately ahead of brawlers Message Edited by Dogmae on 08-27-2005 09:33 AM __________________

08-27-2005, 05:18 AM	#1
Sine Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 57	Just posted by Moorgard. ------------------------------------------- As for health differences among the fighter classes, that is in place already. Yesterday's Beta update included changes to health and power pools, which rebalanced the class multipliers for everyone. For Fighters, it now goes like this: Warriors - Highest health pool, lowest power pool Brawlers - Middle health pool, middle power pool Crusaders - Lowest health pool, highest power pool -------------------------------------------- Better hope we get a higher mitigation or avoid or parry or something. Otherwise we will not be raid MT due to spike damage absorbtion.

08-27-2005, 09:12 PM	#7
Zoradan Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 186	Yep no mater what they do almost always raw hp is > anything. This is bad :smileysad: and very disapointing to see roll out, I feel even worse for Pallies, the "2nd best tank" with 2k less hp... oh pick him to tank! Ya right.... __________________

08-28-2005, 02:00 AM	#8
Sasaki Koji Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 283	Dogmae wrote: Yes, I really hate this. Raw HPs > all. The reason for this is casters. If you cant survive a 4k ice comet (mitigated down from 12k) then the healers cant heal you. And yes I am on beta. In almost full Fabled I have 4k hps unbuffed (5800 on live). If this isn't a huge change I dont know what is. And unless they reduce how much NPCs can nuke for it will be VERY hard for us to tank any mob that casts big nukes. Oh and before you say buffs will help out. Most HPs from buffs come from STA, and guess what they changed to lower our HPS how many HP we get per sta. On live we get about 12.5 hp per sta. On Beta 4.3ish per sta. HUGE change, and means that those great sta buffs that shaman give will be worthless, and only pure +HP buffs will matter. And guardian HPs where only higher then ours because of buff stacking, and we where definately ahead of brawlers Message Edited by Dogmae on 08-27-2005 09:33 AM They were suspost to change what NPC's nuked for. Remembe they removed the ability for MANY npcs to use super-powered versions of our spells. Hopefully that means King Drayerk can no longer cast Ice Comet for 10k damage . But its true, if they Still have that '[expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] Strength' in their spells and hits, then theres no way paladins and SK wont ever be picked for MT, simply because we'll easily be one-shotted. on the other hand.. it was written that our HP differences wont be so Signficant as Paladin with the same gear as Guard in the same group having 4000hp as opposed to the guard haveing 5500hp. Moor Said it wouldnt be that significant of a change. More like you 4000 and guard 4300 or so. (my post on the Brawler post on tanking..) If it appears like this, then I for one am not worried. The way a Shadowknighs life taps are looking, and a paladins heals, it easily makes up for whatever life difference they show. Currently weve had one buff turned into a life tap proc with a better proc rate, one spell life tap amount doubled, one spell turned from a silly nuke into a physical/disease attack for a really good amount, our ward changed into a reactive life-tap/damage shield (hope its self castable now), our group lifetap proc rate increased, and our stuns work on epics now. I know, In a good group we shouldnt even have to touch these skills, but that was before the changes. They also lowered mob damage (including epics) and HP across board. We just have to wait and see whats going to happen. However i belive Brawlers should have the most HP,since when they get hit it hurts more than everyone else, plus theyre suspost to have better trained bodies, which is why they dont wear heavy armor in the first place (that and its hard to jump kick in vanguard). I also dont think Fighters of any class should Be able to buff Defense (except the Defensive stance) for anything but the group. This way whoevers in the guards group would have equal defense anyways. Given that, whoever is to be MT, group them with a guard. Being as paranoid as I am, however, i can see SOME raid leaders grouping guards w/o any other fights just to maintain thier position (yeah im that paranoid). Hopefully it wont hurt thier feelings too bad not to MT, i know some guards that get REALLY mad when they arent tank in a group (i fired them for sucking). Looking forward to out-tanking guards because of my Uber life taps (if they dont pull out the Nerf guns on us again... Sigh) EDIT: oh BTW. its true about them De-superpowering our spells on NPC's. Filthe in Serpent sewers can Harm Touch for the same amout I can and hes lvl21 +++ heroic (This was on Test). one time he instant killed me cause he HT for app I Harm touch's max damge, other time it was lower and i was only near-death . I expect to see ALL mobs this way. If he were anything like on the live servers that HT would have been instant kill for over 2000 damage. Glad it wasnt =) EDIT2: oh but then again, HT on live suxxors so i prolly woulda taken like 300damage or so heh. Kojiro, 50 SK of Lucan D'Lere Xertanth, 22 SK of Test Message Edited by Sasaki Kojiro on 08-27-2005 03:05 PM Message Edited by Sasaki Kojiro on 08-27-2005 03:05 PM

08-28-2005, 02:21 AM	#9
Xiziz Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 75	Most peeps i know are rerolling to warrior class or going on to Caster type DPS. I went Swash and from what im reading ill have 2 utterly worthless characters in EQ2. Crusaders are not very welcome in most raid guilds now on my server most accept one fro Despoiling mist and some other Buffs. Most Function just fine with 4 or five Zerks and Guards to rotate in there line up. And please dont take offense But SK is barely limping in functionality unless in high end gear. From what ive read and heard from our guild leader who is Beta on DOF Crusaders will be few and far between in high end raiding content. Luck to ya lads and hopefully they will change our Class, But making our Health pool so low and just increasing our power? What [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] good are we if we cant stay alive. Say good by to off tank SK's And MT pfffft, never happen

08-28-2005, 02:24 AM	#10
Sasaki Koji Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 283	Xiziz wrote: Most peeps i know are rerolling to warrior class or going on to Caster type DPS. I went Swash and from what im reading ill have 2 utterly worthless characters in EQ2. Crusaders are not very welcome in most raid guilds now on my server most accept one fro Despoiling mist and some other Buffs. Most Function just fine with 4 or five Zerks and Guards to rotate in there line up. And please dont take offense But SK is barely limping in functionality unless in high end gear. From what ive read and heard from our guild leader who is Beta on DOF Crusaders will be few and far between in high end raiding content. Luck to ya lads and hopefully they will change our Class, But making our Health pool so low and just increasing our power? What [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] good are we if we cant stay alive. Say good by to off tank SK's And MT pfffft, never happen I really hope it doesnt end up that way I Really rather not have to Re-roll just to enjoy the game...

08-28-2005, 04:08 AM	#11
Giral General Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 894	i made a post about the Player made gimping of Sk's on another thread but let me just put out the basics of it Group= Templar,Mystic,Assasin,Ranger,Gaurd and SK "Who is MT ? Guard is he has more HP and resists" group starts Guard loses agro "Sk" grabs them and Group says "No biggy we just gettin started", next pull Guard pulls and loses his target on the mob and hes takin damage healer heals pulls agro "Sk" pulls mob again ,Guard says Sorry lost my target some how " Group says dont sweat it we got it , next the guard runs thru agro and dont stop "SK" pulls again guard says " oops sorry didnt see agro" Group Say "No Prob " . k by now Sk has tanked every encounter with out the Major buffs the MT gets Not One time did he get a thank you or a compliment BUT the Guard scr3ws up to no end and its no big deal LOL funny BUT sadly true , Now the 5th time Guard loses agro Templar says let the "SK" tank for awhile im gettin tired of healing .So now you SK is MT you start workin the mobs and never lose agro you go 40 minutes straight fighting group is like Yeah we Kickin [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]in [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] now sweet ! Whats the Guardian thinkin?? this SK rocks Great Tank OR SK's Suck they one of the worst tanks in the game Everybody knows that! so guard see guild chat says Hey whats up His guildies say " nothin much what u doin Guardian ?" guard says "im in a group and they have a SK tankin instead of me " Guild says Are you F'knn Serious Man they are a bunch of Noob's get out of that group they goin to Wipe and you goin to get Debt BIG time" Guard says "Yeah your right they are stupid"to the Group guardian says "Sorry guys but my guild needs me i have to go now " Group says Ok later Man good meetin you hope to group you again we was kickin BUTT" Guard Chuckles to himself wyle he's portin out and he's thinkin "Suckers" Is this true ? does this happen? Yes why did i never have a problem findin a group to MT for until 3 to 4 months into game? why all of a sudden isnt a SK a great choice for MT THE reason you hear is Guards do it "EASIER" Period. Is that really all there is to all the guilds on every single server ? what is the Easiest possible way to get this done ? how Lame ! How Boring ! who the hell want's every single encounter to be a 100% success rate what kind of f'kn fun is that ? Level 50 are bored out of there minds cuase all they do is endless Raids over and over Except for a few lvl 50 toons that arent that much of a help in some players eye's When you hear Sk's have tanked the Entire game and All End game Raids and then listen to the crap of SK's are a sucky MT it's an Oxymoron. The only [Removed for Content] on live with Sk as main tank is the Player Base that wants the game to be Absolutly no challenge at all That wants a 100% guarante on every single fight So they use the same Boring group same set up for months on end and then complain there bored wyle others are bored cuase they cant even get in 1 of those raids over months and months what a Joke . and we Can also MA best in game that has been pointed out also But does taht change anything Nope almost all the posts hear are from Sk's who cant get an invite to Raid except a few who raid all the time becuase they actually have Intelligent guild people who understand SK's are very usefull in any condition I'm sorry but with the re-vamp alot of the player base is goin to stick with the tried and true method of Guard for MT all the time Thats how they did it for months And re-vamp shows Poeple Hate Drastic change so they will stick with guards and never realize the possibilities of SK's as mt . And if your an Sk and dont want to MT then your offensive stance should do DPs at between 1/2 to 3/4 of a predator so you can function in an off tank position __________________ who's more of a Fool, the fool or the fool who follows the fool. . . Account Terminated as of 12-27-08, RMT=Evil

08-28-2005, 04:45 AM	#12
Sasaki Koji Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 283	Giralus wrote: i made a post about the Player made gimping of Sk's on another thread but let me just put out the basics of it Group= Templar,Mystic,Assasin,Ranger,Gaurd and SK "Who is MT ? Guard is he has more HP and resists" group starts Guard loses agro "Sk" grabs them and Group says "No biggy we just gettin started", next pull Guard pulls and loses his target on the mob and hes takin damage healer heals pulls agro "Sk" pulls mob again ,Guard says Sorry lost my target some how " Group says dont sweat it we got it , next the guard runs thru agro and dont stop "SK" pulls again guard says " oops sorry didnt see agro" Group Say "No Prob " . k by now Sk has tanked every encounter with out the Major buffs the MT gets Not One time did he get a thank you or a compliment BUT the Guard scr3ws up to no end and its no big deal LOL funny BUT sadly true , Now the 5th time Guard loses agro Templar says let the "SK" tank for awhile im gettin tired of healing .So now you SK is MT you start workin the mobs and never lose agro you go 40 minutes straight fighting group is like Yeah we Kickin [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]in [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] now sweet ! Whats the Guardian thinkin?? this SK rocks Great Tank OR SK's Suck they one of the worst tanks in the game Everybody knows that! so guard see guild chat says Hey whats up His guildies say " nothin much what u doin Guardian ?" guard says "im in a group and they have a SK tankin instead of me " Guild says Are you F'knn Serious Man they are a bunch of Noob's get out of that group they goin to Wipe and you goin to get Debt BIG time" Guard says "Yeah your right they are stupid"to the Group guardian says "Sorry guys but my guild needs me i have to go now " Group says Ok later Man good meetin you hope to group you again we was kickin BUTT" Guard Chuckles to himself wyle he's portin out and he's thinkin "Suckers" Is this true ? does this happen? Yes why did i never have a problem findin a group to MT for until 3 to 4 months into game? why all of a sudden isnt a SK a great choice for MT THE reason you hear is Guards do it "EASIER" Period. Is that really all there is to all the guilds on every single server ? what is the Easiest possible way to get this done ? how Lame ! How Boring ! who the hell want's every single encounter to be a 100% success rate what kind of f'kn fun is that ? Level 50 are bored out of there minds cuase all they do is endless Raids over and over Except for a few lvl 50 toons that arent that much of a help in some players eye's When you hear Sk's have tanked the Entire game and All End game Raids and then listen to the crap of SK's are a sucky MT it's an Oxymoron. The only [Removed for Content] on live with Sk as main tank is the Player Base that wants the game to be Absolutly no challenge at all That wants a 100% guarante on every single fight So they use the same Boring group same set up for months on end and then complain there bored wyle others are bored cuase they cant even get in 1 of those raids over months and months what a Joke . and we Can also MA best in game that has been pointed out also But does taht change anything Nope almost all the posts hear are from Sk's who cant get an invite to Raid except a few who raid all the time becuase they actually have Intelligent guild people who understand SK's are very usefull in any condition I'm sorry but with the re-vamp alot of the player base is goin to stick with the tried and true method of Guard for MT all the time Thats how they did it for months And re-vamp shows Poeple Hate Drastic change so they will stick with guards and never realize the possibilities of SK's as mt . And if your an Sk and dont want to MT then your offensive stance should do DPs at between 1/2 to 3/4 of a predator so you can function in an off tank position Lol, that has happened to me many times. I was helping some people Do thier heritage quest in Lavastorm one day, full group of SK, Guard, Inquis, Temp, and assassin. Well, i noticed the guard had just turned lvl50, so being my funny SK self, is said 'OMG guard your lvl50 now, YOU TANK /grin' So he tanked and got beat up some, and i followed his lead... all up until he got my Girlfriend killed because he'd rather train mobs than fight them. So yeah, i fired his [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] on the spot and just took agro like it wasnt nothing. He eventually gave up and switched to a 2h weapon . No one gets my Princess killed, NO ONE! rar. Youre also right about no one ever blames the guard. that same group it was just 'no prob, we can dig'. Man its frusterating. The guard doesnt even have to be a GOOD guard, hes just a guard so hes instantly capable of ANYTHING. what a load of crap... I was in a raid and pulled agro simply by autoattacking, and who do they yell at, me of course. me me me [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] them SK and their good agroing! I feared they would tie me up and beat me with a stick. hoping candy would pop out! I love my job! Kojiro 50th SK of Lucan D'Lere Message Edited by Sasaki Kojiro on 08-27-2005 05:49 PM

08-28-2005, 04:53 AM	#13
Elymri Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 41	all i can say is .. what kind of drugs are they using to mess with something so fundamental for a tank class as hitpoints I was pleasantly surprized about the revamp, I even thought that I would be tanking some raid mobs but nooo ill just be a dps class with nerfed dps.. yay me __________________ Elya, 60 Shadow Knight Ex Guild Leader of Fable Splitpaw Retired ...

08-28-2005, 04:57 AM	#14
Sasaki Koji Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 283	Extacy, Crack, Cocaine, Speed, Ridaline, Something worse than all those, and all of the above EDIT: Prolly some Anti-Depressants too i dunno... Message Edited by Sasaki Kojiro on 08-27-2005 05:58 PM

08-28-2005, 09:34 AM	#15
Xiziz Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 75	Giralus seems to be having Fun as SK , at least he is it seems .More and more peeps are noticing the unbalance in tank classes. My take on it is we have 2 tank classes Offensive and Defensive . Guardian Defensive, Zerker Offensive. where does SK fit in ? Some say Support tank we get Mit debuff ,group LT procs ,and some Armor Buffs making us support tanks. Simply put people have done the math, they have broke down the numbers on what we bring to the table. What ever we bring to the table othe rclasses can do better, DPS Put in assasin or ranger we dont even hold a candle to thier numbers, you need Debuffs and Tank buffs the shaman classes or Druid classes get Various Abilites with higher effect then SK. They may not be on the Same streams but our STR bdebuffs are pretty weak compared to the heat and cold debuffs the other classes can pump into an epic. And our Disease debuffs pffft. our only saving grace is despoing mist which is pretty iffy to stick. The bottom line is we are like a handy man some one to handle small jobs you dont want to pay a Contractor to do. Now I am strictly speaking from my Expierence on my server. Seems Giralus and Phoz have different expierences on thier respective servers. So before you go lighting up my post and start saying i dont know what i am talking about i am stating this is my expierence on my server. Guilds that are succesfull are Doing Drayek with 2 groups zalak 2 groups, Venekor ,Vox 4 groups, And the contested are still hit and miss. :smileyhappy: They got it down , Ive asked as to why these guilds dont except more then 1 or 2 SK's and its all the Same answer, What you do we can find another class to do it better.

08-28-2005, 11:31 AM	#16
pawnipt Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 185	In the current combat system im usually in the main tank group buffing the MT with Gift of armament (to stack on some Mitigation) and Calculated evasion (to help avoid some attacks for the MT) and Unholy Strength for some stat buffage. To the MT the mitigation and avoidance is most important, and a Crusader is able to give both proving to be a useful main tank buffer (other classes may be able to give more Mitigation and avoidance, but theres always the question of what stacks with what and that every little bit helps. So you are saying in the combat changes this usefulness is removed???!!!

08-28-2005, 12:00 PM	#17
Vrug Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 20	I am a level 50 SK who has tanked allot of the lower tier epics- IE both Kings( well King Z before the new and improved version) Angler, The Drakotas for Priz etc. All I can say is it is easier to use a guardian- they where always able to get aggro back if they where worth a [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] much quicker then a SK especially in a multiple group encounter. Now with the new patch I discover my Health is 1900 HPs lower when self buffed- and my mana pool is lower by like 200. Explain to me how I will be able to handle even a named with say a Ice comet that hits for 5k. Figure our Master 2 Ruinious Touch does 2-4k of damage so you know that mobs will be doing the same. Then comes the fact we were suppose to need STR and Wis as our main stats. Well our new Plaque sword buff is a INT buff (100 at adapt 3) so since this is our offensive buff we will also need to get our INT up if we want to do any DPS. I dont care how much mitigation they give us- we are going to take a beating and barely have more HP then the Wiz in our group. Our taunts are still weak, we have only 2 taunts (1 of which is a taunt over time) and 1 taunting attack (that cannot be used on a ^^^). Our group buff is now watered down and is just a proc, its level 51 replacement is basically the same thing and still no buff to disease resist or Slash/Pierce/Crush. I was happy with the changes in combat other then the group buff. Now I really question why I have tried to prove that the SK class is worth anything. I pray they come to there sense our I feel our class will be in trouble.

08-28-2005, 06:30 PM	#18
Xiziz Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 75	1900 hp thats laughable, Sony why dont you just remove SK were worse then in EQ 1 you dont even remotely understand the frustration of your players who use this class id rather you say look were removing the class from the game it serves no purpose appologies for wasting your time

08-28-2005, 08:03 PM	#19
Sasaki Koji Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 283	Xiziz wrote: 1900 hp thats laughable, Sony why dont you just remove SK were worse then in EQ 1 you dont even remotely understand the frustration of your players who use this class id rather you say look were removing the class from the game it serves no purpose appologies for wasting your time No no, dont remove it, instead change it to Jester with -50 to all stats.. and 1hp

08-28-2005, 08:08 PM	#20
Sasaki Koji Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 283	Vrugor wrote: I am a level 50 SK who has tanked allot of the lower tier epics- IE both Kings( well King Z before the new and improved version) Angler, The Drakotas for Priz etc. All I can say is it is easier to use a guardian- they where always able to get aggro back if they where worth a [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] much quicker then a SK especially in a multiple group encounter. Now with the new patch I discover my Health is 1900 HPs lower when self buffed- and my mana pool is lower by like 200. Explain to me how I will be able to handle even a named with say a Ice comet that hits for 5k. Figure our Master 2 Ruinious Touch does 2-4k of damage so you know that mobs will be doing the same. Then comes the fact we were suppose to need STR and Wis as our main stats. Well our new Plaque sword buff is a INT buff (100 at adapt 3) so since this is our offensive buff we will also need to get our INT up if we want to do any DPS. I dont care how much mitigation they give us- we are going to take a beating and barely have more HP then the Wiz in our group. Our taunts are still weak, we have only 2 taunts (1 of which is a taunt over time) and 1 taunting attack (that cannot be used on a ^^^). Our group buff is now watered down and is just a proc, its level 51 replacement is basically the same thing and still no buff to disease resist or Slash/Pierce/Crush. I was happy with the changes in combat other then the group buff. Now I really question why I have tried to prove that the SK class is worth anything. I pray they come to there sense our I feel our class will be in trouble. Dont forget Blasphemy is one our tauts. and Destructive slam as i see should hit epics, but it looks like they took the Taunt out of it so yea i guess 2 taunts... Insideous Whisper and Blasphemy

08-28-2005, 08:24 PM	#21
Giral General Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 894	lol yeah and have are squire stand there jugglin health and mana potions/totems and they should have made the new monkeys in the game be are pets. Que the benny hill theme song __________________ who's more of a Fool, the fool or the fool who follows the fool. . . Account Terminated as of 12-27-08, RMT=Evil

08-28-2005, 11:33 PM	#22
Kagatoey General Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 19	Eh...not surprising to me. They might as well shove us in VLA. =/

08-29-2005, 09:41 AM	#23
Eatu Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 12	i just recently did some tests myself with the new nerf to HP gained per stamina and it is ridiculous. I have the master 1 version of the Unholy Str (beta it now increases str and sta of group by 42). Before the new ratios it gave over 600 hp to us and group wohoo.... after the buff the master 1 gives us a whoppin 200 or so hp.....WOW that is sad, thats like a 2/3 decrease in hp. Just dreadful.

08-29-2005, 12:49 PM	#24
SaraBH Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah Posts: 181	first /ooc I see a hole lot of dogging are class but i didnt play a Shadow Knight for any other reson then this sounds like a fun class. I have loved playing my Shadow Knight and have always been abile to addapt to every change that has come. Should we truely become a worthless class then I for one will love proving everyone wrong and doing the impossible. if you dont Roleplay pay no attantion to the lower statmente hehe its kind of mean but ha im a Shadow Knight. Now /Roleplay What is this I here you pitiful eqcuses for Shadow Knights. Your gods should feel ashamed at you all. Noone ever said are lives would be easy, We are Shadow Knights, show some back bone. Adapt and overcome there is nothing that we can not do. I for one see no reason to lay down and die without a fight. Should I die, then I for one will die with my boots up to the rim in the blood of my enemys and there will be talls written in my wake. Your lack of faith disgustes me and should we ever meet on the field Pray we stand on the same side. __________________

08-29-2005, 01:54 PM	#25
vTenebr General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 254	All those complaining now, complained before. I hate to say it, but some people will never ever be happy. A lot of these changes are occuring to other classes as well. The guardians had an entire line of buffs that used to stack all on top of each other. The hp disparity will still be there, but it won't be in terms of THOUSANDS of hitpoints, like it is now. It'll be a few hundred. The idea is that while Guardians will still be the "biggier, beefier" tanks, the rest of us are supposed to be VIABLE alternatives. As it stands now, we're really not.. unless people are willing to work that much harder. That doesn't mean we were gimped. We just had a different role. It just wasn't as MT for most raid mobs. (Groups were different, we were always excellent in group settings) Before everyone goes into a blind tizzy, lets actually see how it works. I understand a few of us beta test and some are complaining. BUT.. people complained non-stop before the revamp that we were gimped (we weren't), people will complain AFTER the revamp. Those people seem to frequent the boards. Those who don't hate the class, and don't have envy about the other fighters, get 1 starred to hell and back for DARING to speak against the whining majority. If you dare say "No, seriously.. I think these are positive changes" or previously "no, seriously.. we're not gimped" you were slammed. So, those who don't post and only glean info... Don't believe the constant dissention, griping, and complaints.. check for yourself. You may be pleasantly surprised at the outcome. Message Edited by vTenebrae on 08-29-2005 02:57 AM

08-29-2005, 02:10 PM	#26
pawnipt Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 185	Hope they take this change into account, and maybe add something useful to this buff.... Didnt they take out the AGI buff of it and now STA is nerfed so whats the use of this skill really, isnt much useful anymore is it..

08-29-2005, 04:27 PM	#27
Sasaki Koji Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 283	SaraBH wrote: first /ooc I see a hole lot of dogging are class but i didnt play a Shadow Knight for any other reson then this sounds like a fun class. I have loved playing my Shadow Knight and have always been abile to addapt to every change that has come. Should we truely become a worthless class then I for one will love proving everyone wrong and doing the impossible. if you dont Roleplay pay no attantion to the lower statmente hehe its kind of mean but ha im a Shadow Knight. Now /Roleplay What is this I here you pitiful eqcuses for Shadow Knights. Your gods should feel ashamed at you all. Noone ever said are lives would be easy, We are Shadow Knights, show some back bone. Adapt and overcome there is nothing that we can not do. I for one see no reason to lay down and die without a fight. Should I die, then I for one will die with my boots up to the rim in the blood of my enemys and there will be talls written in my wake. Your lack of faith disgustes me and should we ever meet on the field Pray we stand on the same side. I have had to prove my abilities to others day after day. But they treat me as if im a criple again. There are only a handful of people that know my true abilities as a shadowknight, and other than raids, they are the only ones i perfere to travel with. Everyone else can just rot, decay, suffer, and die... in that order.

08-29-2005, 08:36 PM	#28
Sine Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 57	Things may be okay HP wise. Been reading the paladin boards b/c what generally happens to them happens to us. Go to this < a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=10&message.id=14678&page=2and" > link < /a > scroll down to see the SS of hps. Apparently Crusaders get 4.5 hps per 1 STA and guards get 4.75 hp per 1 STA. So even at 400 STA they would only have 100hps more then us. I can live with that and combined with superior disease resists we definitely have a spot in the rotation to MT raids. edit: pwned by html Message Edited by Sineri on 08-29-2005 03:21 PM Message Edited by Sineri on 08-29-2005 03:27 PM

08-29-2005, 09:26 PM	#29
Gaedan Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 13	It seems to me (and though I do not have level 50 experience in this game, I have played tanks in other MMOs to raid levels), that SKs still have a spot in situations where you have a Guardian tanking as being a self-sufficient off-tank, or, with our disease resist and lifetaps, that the increased power pool will create a situation where the total amount of HPs we have including our wards and lifetap heals will exceed those of a guardian by essentially converting power into health. Granted, resists being what they are, and high damage attacks (always a risk in any game), I can see where people would have the perception that all you need is a pile of walking HP (like EQ1). As with any major group role (tanking, healing, crowd control), perception is 7/10s of mastery. If nobody believes that a SK can tank (or a druid can heal, or, well, in EQ1, say, a bard can CC), then you'll never change their minds. Just like in WOW (I have a level 60 Protection spec Paladin), nobody would believe I can tank until we had a warrior die on Gen. Drakk and I stepped up and tanked the rest of the fight. Not trying to brag, but anyone familiar with the game or game mechanics (or just the whinefest that is their forums), will know that this is a similar issue. shrugs My 2c.

08-30-2005, 06:48 AM	#30
Sasaki Koji Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 283	Gaedan wrote: It seems to me (and though I do not have level 50 experience in this game, I have played tanks in other MMOs to raid levels), that SKs still have a spot in situations where you have a Guardian tanking as being a self-sufficient off-tank, or, with our disease resist and lifetaps, that the increased power pool will create a situation where the total amount of HPs we have including our wards and lifetap heals will exceed those of a guardian by essentially converting power into health. Granted, resists being what they are, and high damage attacks (always a risk in any game), I can see where people would have the perception that all you need is a pile of walking HP (like EQ1). As with any major group role (tanking, healing, crowd control), perception is 7/10s of mastery. If nobody believes that a SK can tank (or a druid can heal, or, well, in EQ1, say, a bard can CC), then you'll never change their minds. Just like in WOW (I have a level 60 Protection spec Paladin), nobody would believe I can tank until we had a warrior die on Gen. Drakk and I stepped up and tanked the rest of the fight. Not trying to brag, but anyone familiar with the game or game mechanics (or just the whinefest that is their forums), will know that this is a similar issue. shrugs My 2c. Absolutely right. ALMOST everyone has done the guardian thing since relase. Tho on some servers i have heard of Guardian being offtank and PLD/SK being MT sometimes, but on once. I belive now, before Re-vamp, that i could fight on-par with guardians if i got the same Raidlvl buffs they usually are given. I dont know if the re-vamp will change peoples attitudes towards this. On my server, many raid guilds 'Buffed out the guard' with fabled gear and everyone else came second. and even when the guard dies in a raid, and mind you a simple one, no one would care to heal me because im not a guardian . I dont mind tha tho, since i didnt have any buffs worth preserving. Ii hope people will come to thier senses with this revamp, Seeing as Crusader and Guardian are becomeing more Equal. Truthfully, if a mob does no Heat damage, Cold Damage, Disease damage, or Divine damage, I dont see a reason for Warriors or Crusaders to just flip a coin now . What needs more focus now is Brawlers, who seem to still be getting the low end of tanking.