Str AA Monk or Bruiser, is there a difference?

maus · 12-31-2006, 11:02 AM

Hey all. I'm a Ratonga who heard that the max haste would output more dps than the bruisers +dps buff when going unarmed.

I betrayed to Qeynos and I really miss my hovel in Temple Street. But you know opportunistic ratonga like myself go where we can take advantage of things.

Is there a difference between the two numbers wise?

Kasai · 01-01-2007, 05:10 AM

Well, on the account that monks have much more auto attack dps than bruisers from the haste, the STR line will do more dps as a monk. The unarmed bonus is only for auto attacks so it works well for monks.

Ameniel · 01-05-2007, 02:38 AM

OP: While monks do benefit from the haste combined with the added dps of the STR line, imo it ought to even out for bruisers. Compare your autoattack with and without the extra dps from STR line(+20%). You will see that the dps modifier makes a pretty big difference. Now, the t7 bruiser dps buff rabid cry can add another 20-25% dps to you depending on how much you upgrade it. So now imagine your dps mod going from 20% to 40-45%. You will not have the haste the monk has, but your auto attacks will do even more huge amounts of dmg.

Madmoon · 01-05-2007, 02:46 AM

A parser might prove different, but my money is on a negligible difference, if even that.

Zelkova · 01-05-2007, 11:46 PM

A parser would prove different. Haste destroys DPS in equal numbers.That being said, our combat arts do a crapload of damage. If you actually use them... as it seems most people don't.

Ameniel · 01-10-2007, 03:54 AM

brekehan wrote:
A parser would prove different. Haste destroys DPS in equal numbers.

That being said, our combat arts do a crapload of damage. If you actually use them... as it seems most people don't.

I dont know about parsing , I dont get that much into it. But I tested auto attack with the str line with and without rabid cry. It seemed on the whole, for both regular auto attack and crits, the dmg went up by roughly 50-100. I.e. autoattack that used to hit for lets say 250 with just STR line and no dps buff would now hit for 300-350. So...dunno if thats better or worse than hitting for less but slightly faster(monk haste is only same amt as our dps....like 20-25% so it cant be that great). Anyway...just an observation.

Madmoon · 01-11-2007, 09:25 PM

And you have to take into account what the differences actually come out to. The only real number is how fast you can get monster X down to zero. And I have yet to hear, "This Flying Hippogriph of Doom in the Loping Plains, a monk can always take it down, and a bruiser can't." If I am fighting it, and a monk is, too, and the monk finishes a couple seconds earlier than me, that's no difference.

Zelkova · 01-11-2007, 10:21 PM

Doomhand wrote:

brekehan wrote:A parser would prove different. Haste destroys DPS in equal numbers.That being said, our combat arts do a crapload of damage. If you actually use them... as it seems most people don't.

I dont know about parsing , I dont get that much into it. But I tested auto attack with the str line with and without rabid cry. It seemed on the whole, for both regular auto attack and crits, the dmg went up by roughly 50-100. I.e. autoattack that used to hit for lets say 250 with just STR line and no dps buff would now hit for 300-350. So...dunno if thats better or worse than hitting for less but slightly faster(monk haste is only same amt as our dps....like 20-25% so it cant be that great). Anyway...just an observation.

Yeah the difference between the monk group haste and our group DPS buff isn't that huge, but they get another self-haste buff that puts them up pretty darned high. I think some have a base of 85% haste or higher with offensive stance + group buff + a haste item and possible adornment. So I think when discussing STR line that's important to consider. Also this helps them do a LOT of damage with Crane Flock since it's an autoattack based ability, and I've met a lot of monks who have that AA so that's probably why.Madmoon: if the AA line is only utilizing autoattack and the OP is asking for a comparison between the brawler classes using said AAs then I think the comparison of autoattack between the two classes is all that matters.

Illustrious · 01-13-2007, 05:59 AM

Yeah the difference between the monk group haste and our group DPS buff isn't that huge, but they get another self-haste buff that puts them up pretty darned high. I think some have a base of 85% haste or higher with offensive stance + group buff + a haste item and possible adornment. So I think when discussing STR line that's important to consider. Also this helps them do a LOT of damage with Crane Flock since it's an autoattack based ability, and I've met a lot of monks who have that AA so that's probably why.

As a monk i can tell you we get more than 85% haste.

with M1 grp haste, HP burn haste, Offense stance and DT access bracer a monk has 124 haste (works out almost exactly 100% haste). With dps adornments currently stacking as well I can personally get 30 dps buff (i think max is 58 if you have all the correct items to adorn). So i would say Monks would be better for Str line than Bruisers. Havent seen any parses to confirm or deny that though but that would be my guess. And yes i do have crane flock as it is rather nice on occasion for burst dps or grp aggro gaining.

with my AA spec raid buffed i have about 55-65%(dependant on grp setup) of my raid wide dps coming from pure auto attack damage. Bruiser in my guild has a good 5-10% less than me but makes up for it with higher CA damage.

Lildebbie · 01-14-2007, 11:58 AM

i am a new 52 Bruiser. i recently betrayed my halfling. i can tell you that i personally didn't like the str AA line as a monk. i went wis, int, and sta and i consistently tanked and PvP'd better than when i was STR, INT, STA. now i have to qualify this by saying that i was NOT maxed on AA's. i had enough to get 8 points in Double attack and 4 points in crit (int) but i was not using all 50 points. anyhow, as a bruiser, i am finding the STR AA line MUCH MUCH better than when i was a monk. i do miss being at 93 haste but [Removed for Content]. i drop mobs a LOT faster as a bruiser and pvp is just crazy. i was reading that at some point there is almost no return for increased haste. i am not sure if that is true and i am not trying to conduct a lesson. this is just my oberservation as someone who was a monk for 52 levels and has just spent 20PP trying to get adept III's and masters back (sigh). overall, i think the bruiser pvp's and pve's better (solo) with the STR AA line. on the other hand, for monks, 93 haste on crane is very very nice.

Illustrious · 01-16-2007, 04:46 AM

am a new 52 Bruiser. i recently betrayed my halfling. i can tell you that i personally didn't like the str AA line as a monk. i went wis, int, and sta and i consistently tanked and PvP'd better than when i was STR, INT, STA. now i have to qualify this by saying that i was NOT maxed on AA's. i had enough to get 8 points in Double attack and 4 points in crit (int) but i was not using all 50 points. anyhow, as a bruiser, i am finding the STR AA line MUCH MUCH better than when i was a monk. i do miss being at 93 haste but [Removed for Content]. i drop mobs a LOT faster as a bruiser and pvp is just crazy. i was reading that at some point there is almost no return for increased haste. i am not sure if that is true and i am not trying to conduct a lesson. this is just my oberservation as someone who was a monk for 52 levels and has just spent 20PP trying to get adept III's and masters back (sigh). overall, i think the bruiser pvp's and pve's better (solo) with the STR AA line. on the other hand, for monks, 93 haste on crane is very very nice

100 haste = 100% haste

200 haste = 125% haste

so yes the old decreasing returns curve really kicks in after about 80-90 haste That being said 200 haste is still nicer than 100 haste =)

regarding dropping mobs faster on bruiser that is because of your far higher CA damge that you can spam out in a short peroid, burst dps wise bruiser much better hence they generally tend to make better solo and pvpers (depending on skill as well of course). But if you compare the auto attack dps that you would do on an equaly str specced bruiser compared to the monk the monk would prolly do more auto by far. On my raid parses though the bruiser often beats me overall dps my auto attack damage is highest in raid, but the bruiser makes up for it with betetr CAs.

Message Edited by Illustrious on 01-15-2007 03:50 PM

Carouz · 01-22-2007, 10:18 AM

this is just anecdotal evidence, but u may find it interesting

the other night i was in a raid

am a 70 bruiser, and my group included a 70 monk

we were both being used for dps rather than tanking

so we would have had similar group buffs

the monk had WAY better equipment than mine

makes me think he probably also had more than my 62 AA

anyway, i parsed every fight in the raid...was Labs so no shortage of fights

i ranked higher in dps than the monk in 80+% of the fights

given his far superior equipment, i was a bit surprised

anyway, could be a million explanations

but i thought it was interesting

and btw, i also have a monk, so am in no way biased against them

01-01-2007, 05:10 AM	#2
Kasai Loremaster Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 135	Well, on the account that monks have much more auto attack dps than bruisers from the haste, the STR line will do more dps as a monk. The unarmed bonus is only for auto attacks so it works well for monks. __________________

01-05-2007, 02:38 AM	#3
Ameniel Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 304	OP: While monks do benefit from the haste combined with the added dps of the STR line, imo it ought to even out for bruisers. Compare your autoattack with and without the extra dps from STR line(+20%). You will see that the dps modifier makes a pretty big difference. Now, the t7 bruiser dps buff rabid cry can add another 20-25% dps to you depending on how much you upgrade it. So now imagine your dps mod going from 20% to 40-45%. You will not have the haste the monk has, but your auto attacks will do even more huge amounts of dmg. __________________ Ameniel, Bruiser of Venekor(Retired) Sabal, Brigand of Venekor Narade, Ranger of Nagafen Offense, Troubadour of Nagafen It's all about the strategerie

01-10-2007, 03:54 AM	#6
Ameniel Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 304	brekehan wrote: A parser would prove different. Haste destroys DPS in equal numbers. That being said, our combat arts do a crapload of damage. If you actually use them... as it seems most people don't. I dont know about parsing , I dont get that much into it. But I tested auto attack with the str line with and without rabid cry. It seemed on the whole, for both regular auto attack and crits, the dmg went up by roughly 50-100. I.e. autoattack that used to hit for lets say 250 with just STR line and no dps buff would now hit for 300-350. So...dunno if thats better or worse than hitting for less but slightly faster(monk haste is only same amt as our dps....like 20-25% so it cant be that great). Anyway...just an observation. __________________ Ameniel, Bruiser of Venekor(Retired) Sabal, Brigand of Venekor Narade, Ranger of Nagafen Offense, Troubadour of Nagafen It's all about the strategerie

01-11-2007, 10:21 PM	#8
Zelkova Loremaster Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 263	Doomhand wrote: brekehan wrote:A parser would prove different. Haste destroys DPS in equal numbers.That being said, our combat arts do a crapload of damage. If you actually use them... as it seems most people don't. I dont know about parsing , I dont get that much into it. But I tested auto attack with the str line with and without rabid cry. It seemed on the whole, for both regular auto attack and crits, the dmg went up by roughly 50-100. I.e. autoattack that used to hit for lets say 250 with just STR line and no dps buff would now hit for 300-350. So...dunno if thats better or worse than hitting for less but slightly faster(monk haste is only same amt as our dps....like 20-25% so it cant be that great). Anyway...just an observation. Yeah the difference between the monk group haste and our group DPS buff isn't that huge, but they get another self-haste buff that puts them up pretty darned high. I think some have a base of 85% haste or higher with offensive stance + group buff + a haste item and possible adornment. So I think when discussing STR line that's important to consider. Also this helps them do a LOT of damage with Crane Flock since it's an autoattack based ability, and I've met a lot of monks who have that AA so that's probably why.Madmoon: if the AA line is only utilizing autoattack and the OP is asking for a comparison between the brawler classes using said AAs then I think the comparison of autoattack between the two classes is all that matters.

01-22-2007, 10:18 AM	#12
Carouz Loremaster Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 44	this is just anecdotal evidence, but u may find it interesting the other night i was in a raid am a 70 bruiser, and my group included a 70 monk we were both being used for dps rather than tanking so we would have had similar group buffs the monk had WAY better equipment than mine makes me think he probably also had more than my 62 AA anyway, i parsed every fight in the raid...was Labs so no shortage of fights i ranked higher in dps than the monk in 80+% of the fights given his far superior equipment, i was a bit surprised anyway, could be a million explanations but i thought it was interesting and btw, i also have a monk, so am in no way biased against them __________________ Domm Guardian and Armorer Lucan DLere

12-31-2006, 11:02 AM	#1
maus General Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 4	Hey all. I'm a Ratonga who heard that the max haste would output more dps than the bruisers +dps buff when going unarmed. I betrayed to Qeynos and I really miss my hovel in Temple Street. But you know opportunistic ratonga like myself go where we can take advantage of things. Is there a difference between the two numbers wise?

01-05-2007, 02:46 AM	#4
Madmoon Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Antonia Bayle Posts: 413	A parser might prove different, but my money is on a negligible difference, if even that.

01-05-2007, 11:46 PM	#5
Zelkova Loremaster Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 263	A parser would prove different. Haste destroys DPS in equal numbers.That being said, our combat arts do a crapload of damage. If you actually use them... as it seems most people don't.

01-11-2007, 09:25 PM	#7
Madmoon Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Antonia Bayle Posts: 413	And you have to take into account what the differences actually come out to. The only real number is how fast you can get monster X down to zero. And I have yet to hear, "This Flying Hippogriph of Doom in the Loping Plains, a monk can always take it down, and a bruiser can't." If I am fighting it, and a monk is, too, and the monk finishes a couple seconds earlier than me, that's no difference.

01-13-2007, 05:59 AM	#9
Illustrious Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 226	Yeah the difference between the monk group haste and our group DPS buff isn't that huge, but they get another self-haste buff that puts them up pretty darned high. I think some have a base of 85% haste or higher with offensive stance + group buff + a haste item and possible adornment. So I think when discussing STR line that's important to consider. Also this helps them do a LOT of damage with Crane Flock since it's an autoattack based ability, and I've met a lot of monks who have that AA so that's probably why. As a monk i can tell you we get more than 85% haste. with M1 grp haste, HP burn haste, Offense stance and DT access bracer a monk has 124 haste (works out almost exactly 100% haste). With dps adornments currently stacking as well I can personally get 30 dps buff (i think max is 58 if you have all the correct items to adorn). So i would say Monks would be better for Str line than Bruisers. Havent seen any parses to confirm or deny that though but that would be my guess. And yes i do have crane flock as it is rather nice on occasion for burst dps or grp aggro gaining. with my AA spec raid buffed i have about 55-65%(dependant on grp setup) of my raid wide dps coming from pure auto attack damage. Bruiser in my guild has a good 5-10% less than me but makes up for it with higher CA damage.

01-14-2007, 11:58 AM	#10
Lildebbie Server: Nagafen Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 77	i am a new 52 Bruiser. i recently betrayed my halfling. i can tell you that i personally didn't like the str AA line as a monk. i went wis, int, and sta and i consistently tanked and PvP'd better than when i was STR, INT, STA. now i have to qualify this by saying that i was NOT maxed on AA's. i had enough to get 8 points in Double attack and 4 points in crit (int) but i was not using all 50 points. anyhow, as a bruiser, i am finding the STR AA line MUCH MUCH better than when i was a monk. i do miss being at 93 haste but [Removed for Content]. i drop mobs a LOT faster as a bruiser and pvp is just crazy. i was reading that at some point there is almost no return for increased haste. i am not sure if that is true and i am not trying to conduct a lesson. this is just my oberservation as someone who was a monk for 52 levels and has just spent 20PP trying to get adept III's and masters back (sigh). overall, i think the bruiser pvp's and pve's better (solo) with the STR AA line. on the other hand, for monks, 93 haste on crane is very very nice.

01-16-2007, 04:46 AM	#11
Illustrious Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 226	am a new 52 Bruiser. i recently betrayed my halfling. i can tell you that i personally didn't like the str AA line as a monk. i went wis, int, and sta and i consistently tanked and PvP'd better than when i was STR, INT, STA. now i have to qualify this by saying that i was NOT maxed on AA's. i had enough to get 8 points in Double attack and 4 points in crit (int) but i was not using all 50 points. anyhow, as a bruiser, i am finding the STR AA line MUCH MUCH better than when i was a monk. i do miss being at 93 haste but [Removed for Content]. i drop mobs a LOT faster as a bruiser and pvp is just crazy. i was reading that at some point there is almost no return for increased haste. i am not sure if that is true and i am not trying to conduct a lesson. this is just my oberservation as someone who was a monk for 52 levels and has just spent 20PP trying to get adept III's and masters back (sigh). overall, i think the bruiser pvp's and pve's better (solo) with the STR AA line. on the other hand, for monks, 93 haste on crane is very very nice 100 haste = 100% haste 200 haste = 125% haste so yes the old decreasing returns curve really kicks in after about 80-90 haste That being said 200 haste is still nicer than 100 haste =) regarding dropping mobs faster on bruiser that is because of your far higher CA damge that you can spam out in a short peroid, burst dps wise bruiser much better hence they generally tend to make better solo and pvpers (depending on skill as well of course). But if you compare the auto attack dps that you would do on an equaly str specced bruiser compared to the monk the monk would prolly do more auto by far. On my raid parses though the bruiser often beats me overall dps my auto attack damage is highest in raid, but the bruiser makes up for it with betetr CAs. Message Edited by Illustrious on 01-15-2007 03:50 PM