Bruiser MT group

Grimchaos87 · 12-14-2006, 03:02 PM

I was recently considering what it would take to overcome the defects in the bruiser class when it came to being the second tank in a raid, and doing things such as duel tanking mobs, or picking up mobs when the MT was down or charmed (DT). I thought with a group made up of Bruiser, Warden, Conj/SK/Pally, Coercer, Shaman, Cleric we could stay at about a constant 5k+ mit, with the wardens instant recast mit buff, and on at least the first 3 mins of any named battle at 5.7-6k mit with our own mit buff.

I was wondering if anyone would have any better suggestions for a MT group for a brawler. I think this group gives more then sufficient agro (our already high dps, along with coercer agro + dps buff) and a lot of mit. I don't think for a second this is a preferred setup for a raid, and I don’t plan on being the MT of a raid often, this is more a "just incase the guards are out of town one weekend" kind of thing. I would just like to know which healer types you would chose, and which of the mit buffers would be best, or perhaps a better setup all together outside of the classes I have set up. I honestly think the only concrete class in a MT group for us would have to be a warden, with the mit buff, and +slashing piercing and crushing to help us land our hits. Any input would be very much apreciated.

Message Edited by Grimchaos87 on 12-14-2006 02:04 AM

BigRed1 · 12-14-2006, 06:58 PM

The group I usually have when MTing is:

Myself

Templer

Defiler

Dirge

Coercer

Swash

I consider a Dirge a must for Stone skin and his other buffs..nothing like seeing stoneskin suck up 2-4k damage instead of you taking it. The Swash is there for pure hate transfer. The hate transfer from the group set up you made while fine for groups I don't think will hold up in a raid, not if scouts and casters are going to reach their potential.

Message Edited by BigRed1 on 12-14-2006 05:59 AM

mace of night · 12-14-2006, 07:14 PM

Hello, As a Bruiser tank, i'm 99% of the time in the MT group. Paladin / Fury / Defiler / Templar / Dirge /Bruiser . This group works really well, we have good buffs and a very nice agro, Paladin's amend is on me so i can dps a lot and be on the 2nd place in agro-list if he die, when he's rezzed i keep the tanking and he can pledge me. Amend fasten the agro-switch to MT when i pull too. I wear legendary stuff and i use to hit 12k hp , 12k avoidance , 4k mitig , 6k+ with stance. I don't know if this is the best combo, but it really works. Hogi Mata Leao - 70 Bruiser - Renegade - Mistmoore

Grimchaos87 · 12-15-2006, 11:21 AM

Big Red - Isn't 3 agro transfers a bit overkill? I may have gone light on the agro transfer in my proposed group, but a dirge giving 40%, Coercer giving 50%, and swash giving what? 28% of his hate to you? it all seems a bit over kill to me. I would say lose the swash, you traded out a healer for an extra 28% hate, which I dont think is a good trade. Losing all the extra buffs from the druid class for a small amount of agro isnt worth it in my eyes, not to mention the Warden adds both mit (survivabuility) and +65 to crushing piercing and slashing, which I honetly think does more for helping you keep agro then the 28% from a swash would do. If you dont land blows you wont get agro, Bruisers keep agro with dps, not taunts. I would also point out templars have a stoneskin proc, so the dirge templar combo is nice for that, but I still think mitigation is more important here, hence the conj. with the group you suggested I would only be at about 3800 mit, 4500 on named, which I dont think is enough.Mace of night - Thank you for the reply, but I'm more looking for a set up for a MT group where the bruiser itself is the MT.thanks for the replys so far, I really want to find out peoples opinions on exact clases you prefer in the MT group, and the reasons for this, like Big Red's part about Dirges. I really would like to know which healer types you prefer, inquis/temp, defiler/mystic, and also which mit buffer would be best between sk/pally/conj.

Zelkova · 12-15-2006, 06:14 PM

Grimchaos87 wrote:Big Red - Isn't 3 agro transfers a bit overkill? I may have gone light on the agro transfer in my proposed group, but a dirge giving 40%, Coercer giving 50%, and swash giving what? 28% of his hate to you? it all seems a bit over kill to me. I would say lose the swash, you traded out a healer for an extra 28% hate, which I dont think is a good trade. Losing all the extra buffs from the druid class for a small amount of agro isnt worth it in my eyes, not to mention the Warden adds both mit (survivabuility) and +65 to crushing piercing and slashing, which I honetly think does more for helping you keep agro then the 28% from a swash would do. If you dont land blows you wont get agro, Bruisers keep agro with dps, not taunts. I would also point out templars have a stoneskin proc, so the dirge templar combo is nice for that, but I still think mitigation is more important here, hence the conj. with the group you suggested I would only be at about 3800 mit, 4500 on named, which I dont think is enough.Mace of night - Thank you for the reply, but I'm more looking for a set up for a MT group where the bruiser itself is the MT.thanks for the replys so far, I really want to find out peoples opinions on exact clases you prefer in the MT group, and the reasons for this, like Big Red's part about Dirges. I really would like to know which healer types you prefer, inquis/temp, defiler/mystic, and also which mit buffer would be best between sk/pally/conj.

Well for starters, there is no such thing as too much agro. Any dedicated DPS class can easily pull agro from a tank. And more hate gain = more damage that can be done before you lose agro = more efficient raid. In EOF very high dps is extremely important in many encounters. So it should be your PRIMARY goal as a tank to gain and keep as much agro as possible, this of course includes agro from damage which is a big problem for us in defensive stance, since we have such limited taunt-type abilities... so assuming you want one of each healer type, a Warden is a must for the melee skills buff to counter defensive stance, a fury simply doesn't offer as much of a reliable buff for us in the MT role. Warden's damage shield is also better. Not to mention their elemental ward which is very great albeit situational.Templar should be the obvious choice between the clerics most of the time, though in some situations an Inquisitor could be more useful. If you can spare some survivability and just need to hold agro VERY well, an inquis is what you want. If you fear you might have a tough time staying alive, take a Templar for the extra HPs, stoneskin, sanctuary and heal procs. Templars arcane ward never hurts either, when it's needed.Everyone says Defilers for MT group, they are great if you want lots of hitpoints but Mystics are better if you want anything else. Defilers reactive debuffs aren't guaranteed and their weapon proc just is nothing compared to Ancient Avatar. Combined a Mystic and Templar for some [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] action as Ancestry makes their stoneskin and heal procs activate like mad :smileytongue: Mystics also have the Noxious ward, good stuff.Dirge and Coercer always. More hate gain FTW. And lots of power regen!If you can get by with two healers, last slot could be whatever but I would use either of the hate transfer scouts.So, eitherWardenMysticInquisitorCoercerDirgeorWardenTe mplarMysticCoercerDirgeIf you can afford to drop a healer, take out the Warden and replace with Assassin / Swashbuckler in balls to the walls DPS mode. The other priests are much better suited for handling burst damage than druids.If you are getting killed very fast use a Templar with Defiler for the bigger HP buffer and stoneskin.Never use a Fury, they are garbage for MT group :smileytongue: Though slightly better then pre-EOF with the Hibernation AAs I guess... lolAll of this IMO, of course :smileyhappy:

Message Edited by brekehan on 12-15-2006 05:16 AM

Grimchaos87 · 12-16-2006, 03:36 AM

Thank you very much for the detailed post brekehan, expecially the defiler vs mystic part. I was never really sure which of those classes brought more to a MT group, but now I see mystic paired with both a dirge and a templar = lots and lots of stoneskin procs SMILEY

12-14-2006, 06:58 PM	#2
BigRed1 Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 56	The group I usually have when MTing is: Myself Templer Defiler Dirge Coercer Swash I consider a Dirge a must for Stone skin and his other buffs..nothing like seeing stoneskin suck up 2-4k damage instead of you taking it. The Swash is there for pure hate transfer. The hate transfer from the group set up you made while fine for groups I don't think will hold up in a raid, not if scouts and casters are going to reach their potential. Message Edited by BigRed1 on 12-14-2006 05:59 AM __________________

12-14-2006, 03:02 PM	#1
Grimchaos87 Master Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 12	I was recently considering what it would take to overcome the defects in the bruiser class when it came to being the second tank in a raid, and doing things such as duel tanking mobs, or picking up mobs when the MT was down or charmed (DT). I thought with a group made up of Bruiser, Warden, Conj/SK/Pally, Coercer, Shaman, Cleric we could stay at about a constant 5k+ mit, with the wardens instant recast mit buff, and on at least the first 3 mins of any named battle at 5.7-6k mit with our own mit buff. I was wondering if anyone would have any better suggestions for a MT group for a brawler. I think this group gives more then sufficient agro (our already high dps, along with coercer agro + dps buff) and a lot of mit. I don't think for a second this is a preferred setup for a raid, and I don’t plan on being the MT of a raid often, this is more a "just incase the guards are out of town one weekend" kind of thing. I would just like to know which healer types you would chose, and which of the mit buffers would be best, or perhaps a better setup all together outside of the classes I have set up. I honestly think the only concrete class in a MT group for us would have to be a warden, with the mit buff, and +slashing piercing and crushing to help us land our hits. Any input would be very much apreciated. Message Edited by Grimchaos87 on 12-14-2006 02:04 AM

12-14-2006, 07:14 PM	#3
mace of night Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 20	Hello, As a Bruiser tank, i'm 99% of the time in the MT group. Paladin / Fury / Defiler / Templar / Dirge /Bruiser . This group works really well, we have good buffs and a very nice agro, Paladin's amend is on me so i can dps a lot and be on the 2nd place in agro-list if he die, when he's rezzed i keep the tanking and he can pledge me. Amend fasten the agro-switch to MT when i pull too. I wear legendary stuff and i use to hit 12k hp , 12k avoidance , 4k mitig , 6k+ with stance. I don't know if this is the best combo, but it really works. Hogi Mata Leao - 70 Bruiser - Renegade - Mistmoore

12-15-2006, 11:21 AM	#4
Grimchaos87 Master Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 12	Big Red - Isn't 3 agro transfers a bit overkill? I may have gone light on the agro transfer in my proposed group, but a dirge giving 40%, Coercer giving 50%, and swash giving what? 28% of his hate to you? it all seems a bit over kill to me. I would say lose the swash, you traded out a healer for an extra 28% hate, which I dont think is a good trade. Losing all the extra buffs from the druid class for a small amount of agro isnt worth it in my eyes, not to mention the Warden adds both mit (survivabuility) and +65 to crushing piercing and slashing, which I honetly think does more for helping you keep agro then the 28% from a swash would do. If you dont land blows you wont get agro, Bruisers keep agro with dps, not taunts. I would also point out templars have a stoneskin proc, so the dirge templar combo is nice for that, but I still think mitigation is more important here, hence the conj. with the group you suggested I would only be at about 3800 mit, 4500 on named, which I dont think is enough.Mace of night - Thank you for the reply, but I'm more looking for a set up for a MT group where the bruiser itself is the MT.thanks for the replys so far, I really want to find out peoples opinions on exact clases you prefer in the MT group, and the reasons for this, like Big Red's part about Dirges. I really would like to know which healer types you prefer, inquis/temp, defiler/mystic, and also which mit buffer would be best between sk/pally/conj.

12-15-2006, 06:14 PM	#5
Zelkova Loremaster Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 263	Grimchaos87 wrote:Big Red - Isn't 3 agro transfers a bit overkill? I may have gone light on the agro transfer in my proposed group, but a dirge giving 40%, Coercer giving 50%, and swash giving what? 28% of his hate to you? it all seems a bit over kill to me. I would say lose the swash, you traded out a healer for an extra 28% hate, which I dont think is a good trade. Losing all the extra buffs from the druid class for a small amount of agro isnt worth it in my eyes, not to mention the Warden adds both mit (survivabuility) and +65 to crushing piercing and slashing, which I honetly think does more for helping you keep agro then the 28% from a swash would do. If you dont land blows you wont get agro, Bruisers keep agro with dps, not taunts. I would also point out templars have a stoneskin proc, so the dirge templar combo is nice for that, but I still think mitigation is more important here, hence the conj. with the group you suggested I would only be at about 3800 mit, 4500 on named, which I dont think is enough.Mace of night - Thank you for the reply, but I'm more looking for a set up for a MT group where the bruiser itself is the MT.thanks for the replys so far, I really want to find out peoples opinions on exact clases you prefer in the MT group, and the reasons for this, like Big Red's part about Dirges. I really would like to know which healer types you prefer, inquis/temp, defiler/mystic, and also which mit buffer would be best between sk/pally/conj. Well for starters, there is no such thing as too much agro. Any dedicated DPS class can easily pull agro from a tank. And more hate gain = more damage that can be done before you lose agro = more efficient raid. In EOF very high dps is extremely important in many encounters. So it should be your PRIMARY goal as a tank to gain and keep as much agro as possible, this of course includes agro from damage which is a big problem for us in defensive stance, since we have such limited taunt-type abilities... so assuming you want one of each healer type, a Warden is a must for the melee skills buff to counter defensive stance, a fury simply doesn't offer as much of a reliable buff for us in the MT role. Warden's damage shield is also better. Not to mention their elemental ward which is very great albeit situational.Templar should be the obvious choice between the clerics most of the time, though in some situations an Inquisitor could be more useful. If you can spare some survivability and just need to hold agro VERY well, an inquis is what you want. If you fear you might have a tough time staying alive, take a Templar for the extra HPs, stoneskin, sanctuary and heal procs. Templars arcane ward never hurts either, when it's needed.Everyone says Defilers for MT group, they are great if you want lots of hitpoints but Mystics are better if you want anything else. Defilers reactive debuffs aren't guaranteed and their weapon proc just is nothing compared to Ancient Avatar. Combined a Mystic and Templar for some [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] action as Ancestry makes their stoneskin and heal procs activate like mad :smileytongue: Mystics also have the Noxious ward, good stuff.Dirge and Coercer always. More hate gain FTW. And lots of power regen!If you can get by with two healers, last slot could be whatever but I would use either of the hate transfer scouts.So, eitherWardenMysticInquisitorCoercerDirgeorWardenTe mplarMysticCoercerDirgeIf you can afford to drop a healer, take out the Warden and replace with Assassin / Swashbuckler in balls to the walls DPS mode. The other priests are much better suited for handling burst damage than druids.If you are getting killed very fast use a Templar with Defiler for the bigger HP buffer and stoneskin.Never use a Fury, they are garbage for MT group :smileytongue: Though slightly better then pre-EOF with the Hibernation AAs I guess... lolAll of this IMO, of course :smileyhappy: Message Edited by brekehan on 12-15-2006 05:16 AM

12-16-2006, 03:36 AM	#6
Grimchaos87 Master Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 12	Thank you very much for the detailed post brekehan, expecially the defiler vs mystic part. I was never really sure which of those classes brought more to a MT group, but now I see mystic paired with both a dirge and a templar = lots and lots of stoneskin procs