My vision of the brawler class

TheSummoned · 05-15-2006, 09:43 PM

I was thinking about what role a brawler class has on raids and in general and while in group situations he is a very good tank came up with very little for raids... What do we offer on raids? Well, each brawler class has a debuff (bruisers lower the mobs accuracy, while monks lower the mobs defenses). They both can do DPS, from good to awsome. They can both trigger traps quite good. The monk is a better puller than the bruiser, though they can both perform the task well. Well equiped brawlers can tank epics. But you see, all these things can be replaced by other classes and we have nothing to offer to the raid that is unique to the brawler class. A predator or a pet can pull mobs just as good, the MT can decide to trigger traps and our DPS is nothing exceptional that make others say WOW! You're a true DPS class! It too can be replaced by other classes. And a plate tank will tank content better than a brawler. Now, after some thought I can up with a truely unique role for brawlers for groups and for raids. A supporting tank! Now you may think that we already are a supporting tank by taking over tanking incase the MT dies. But I have something different in mind. A brawler should support the main tank with tanking making it easier for him! Something like a stone to lean on incase the mob has a knockback to prevent him from taking off. Someone that has a 100% chance to intercept an attack with 0 dmg done to either, but would be on a longer recast. Someone who can [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]slap the people that overaggro to lower their hate SMILEY

Someone who will prevent the tank from going down and wipe the whole raid. Someone who generally helps the other tanks tank better! Now, a brawler wouldn't necessary be needed on raids, but if given these abilities the brawler will be wanted on raids. I know some older brawlers that were around and raiding before LU13 screamed for tanking abilities, for tank classes to be interchangable, not to only have 1 MT class tank raid mobs. Well, that wish was granted to them with LU13, but at what cost? People still prefer plate over leather and DPS classes were given such a boost that ours looks medicore. I know some brawlers out there are in their guild to tank raid mobs, which they successfully perform. But what about the other brawlers that raid? They shouldn't be given a spot in raids just to pick up some brawler gear if it drops and for the medicore DPS we provide. I know some will say that the making the MT a better MT should be the domain of the guardian, but what I just wrote is my vision of the brawler class.

Message Edited by TheSummoned on 05-15-2006 07:45 PM

ganjookie · 05-15-2006, 11:09 PM

can't we do that already?

TheSummoned · 05-15-2006, 11:24 PM

ganjookie wrote:can't we do that already?

[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]slap people to lower their hate? nah...

ganjookie · 05-15-2006, 11:29 PM

A brawler should support the main tank with tanking making it easier for him! Something like a stone to lean on incase the mob has a knockback to prevent him from taking off. Someone that has a 100% chance to intercept an attack with 0 dmg done to either, but would be on a longer recast. .....

Someone who will prevent the tank from going down and wipe the whole raid. Someone who generally helps the other tanks tank better!

We can do this already with normal CAs and through AAsWe save the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] slapping for the rogues

TheSummoned · 05-15-2006, 11:59 PM

ganjookie wrote:A brawler should support the main tank with tanking making it easier for him! Something like a stone to lean on incase the mob has a knockback to prevent him from taking off. Someone that has a 100% chance to intercept an attack with 0 dmg done to either, but would be on a longer recast. ..... Someone who will prevent the tank from going down and wipe the whole raid. Someone who generally helps the other tanks tank better!
We can do this already with normal CAs and through AAsWe save the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] slapping for the rogues

We can prevent the tank from getting knockbacked? And intercept damage with 0 dmg done to eachother whenever we want to? (with longer recast ofc) Altruism is broken since it dispells for no reason quite often, but I agree it is a nice ability. But think outside our current skills. What would you like the brawler to be? In our current state we offer NOTHING that other classes can't do, and in many cases others do it even better. I'd like for the brawler to stand near the MT helping him out with my superior reflexes rather than just DPSing. And rogues aren't as [Removed for Content] as bruisers are, so we should get a master 2 [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]slap by default imo SMILEY

Message Edited by TheSummoned on 05-15-2006 10:00 PM

Gungo · 05-16-2006, 12:03 AM

This is actually not a half bad idea. fake death another person who draws agro. O wait thats a SK ability =P, still a maintained reactive fake death with deagro would be a sweet addtion to either subclass.

CosmicAcidGu · 05-16-2006, 11:34 AM

we already have that skill as the final ability in the Agi AA line. Finnster

TheSummoned · 05-16-2006, 04:21 PM

Altruism sounds a good ability on paper, but in practice it's not all that great and after having it for about 3 weeks here are a couple reasons: 1.) It's dispelled quite often for no obvious reason. I have talked to the main tank about it, we figured it would be another death prevention spell dispelling it, but that wasn't the case, since after a bit of testing it would dispell on encounters that hardly pose any challange and there would be no need for a death prevention spell. 2.) If it does work, it's hardly a raid saver. Often the tank gets the FD, mob turns to raid and snipes a couple guys off, then turns back to the tank that just got up only to 2-3 shot him. I hardly ever saw it save the raid from a wipe. 3.) If you manage to die before the tank, it's off and with a 15 min recast it wont help you or the tank anymore if you are revived. 4.) When it does work and save the tank a few more seconds of tankage on that mob and if the raid wipes, they won't wait for you to get it back on the MT. In the end, Altruism isn't worth it's 24 points. And the biggest issue with this skill is the recast on it, besides the dispelling bug.

Message Edited by TheSummoned on 05-16-2006 02:22 PM

PhozFa · 05-16-2006, 05:35 PM

Altruism is very situational and i think I'd get it if the other abilities in the tree apealed to me more. 15 minute recast thou on a final tree AA ability sux IMO. 5 minute recast would be a little more reasonable or have the recast timer start when the ability is casted not when it wears off, then a 15 minute recast would be better.

Message Edited by PhozFate on 05-16-2006 06:36 AM

05-15-2006, 09:43 PM	#1
TheSummoned Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 713	I was thinking about what role a brawler class has on raids and in general and while in group situations he is a very good tank came up with very little for raids... What do we offer on raids? Well, each brawler class has a debuff (bruisers lower the mobs accuracy, while monks lower the mobs defenses). They both can do DPS, from good to awsome. They can both trigger traps quite good. The monk is a better puller than the bruiser, though they can both perform the task well. Well equiped brawlers can tank epics. But you see, all these things can be replaced by other classes and we have nothing to offer to the raid that is unique to the brawler class. A predator or a pet can pull mobs just as good, the MT can decide to trigger traps and our DPS is nothing exceptional that make others say WOW! You're a true DPS class! It too can be replaced by other classes. And a plate tank will tank content better than a brawler. Now, after some thought I can up with a truely unique role for brawlers for groups and for raids. A supporting tank! Now you may think that we already are a supporting tank by taking over tanking incase the MT dies. But I have something different in mind. A brawler should support the main tank with tanking making it easier for him! Something like a stone to lean on incase the mob has a knockback to prevent him from taking off. Someone that has a 100% chance to intercept an attack with 0 dmg done to either, but would be on a longer recast. Someone who can [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]slap the people that overaggro to lower their hate Someone who will prevent the tank from going down and wipe the whole raid. Someone who generally helps the other tanks tank better! Now, a brawler wouldn't necessary be needed on raids, but if given these abilities the brawler will be wanted on raids. I know some older brawlers that were around and raiding before LU13 screamed for tanking abilities, for tank classes to be interchangable, not to only have 1 MT class tank raid mobs. Well, that wish was granted to them with LU13, but at what cost? People still prefer plate over leather and DPS classes were given such a boost that ours looks medicore. I know some brawlers out there are in their guild to tank raid mobs, which they successfully perform. But what about the other brawlers that raid? They shouldn't be given a spot in raids just to pick up some brawler gear if it drops and for the medicore DPS we provide. I know some will say that the making the MT a better MT should be the domain of the guardian, but what I just wrote is my vision of the brawler class. Message Edited by TheSummoned on 05-15-2006 07:45 PM __________________ __________________________ Yukia, Darathar's bruiser - Retired Ajeco, 70 Splitpaw bruiser - Retired Ezahia, dirge of Validus, Splitpaw

05-15-2006, 11:09 PM	#2
ganjookie Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: SoCal Posts: 2,201	can't we do that already? __________________

05-15-2006, 11:24 PM	#3
TheSummoned Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 713	ganjookie wrote:can't we do that already? [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]slap people to lower their hate? nah... __________________ __________________________ Yukia, Darathar's bruiser - Retired Ajeco, 70 Splitpaw bruiser - Retired Ezahia, dirge of Validus, Splitpaw

05-15-2006, 11:29 PM	#4
ganjookie Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: SoCal Posts: 2,201	A brawler should support the main tank with tanking making it easier for him! Something like a stone to lean on incase the mob has a knockback to prevent him from taking off. Someone that has a 100% chance to intercept an attack with 0 dmg done to either, but would be on a longer recast. ..... Someone who will prevent the tank from going down and wipe the whole raid. Someone who generally helps the other tanks tank better! We can do this already with normal CAs and through AAsWe save the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] slapping for the rogues __________________

05-15-2006, 11:59 PM	#5
TheSummoned Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 713	ganjookie wrote:A brawler should support the main tank with tanking making it easier for him! Something like a stone to lean on incase the mob has a knockback to prevent him from taking off. Someone that has a 100% chance to intercept an attack with 0 dmg done to either, but would be on a longer recast. ..... Someone who will prevent the tank from going down and wipe the whole raid. Someone who generally helps the other tanks tank better! We can do this already with normal CAs and through AAsWe save the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] slapping for the rogues We can prevent the tank from getting knockbacked? And intercept damage with 0 dmg done to eachother whenever we want to? (with longer recast ofc) Altruism is broken since it dispells for no reason quite often, but I agree it is a nice ability. But think outside our current skills. What would you like the brawler to be? In our current state we offer NOTHING that other classes can't do, and in many cases others do it even better. I'd like for the brawler to stand near the MT helping him out with my superior reflexes rather than just DPSing. And rogues aren't as [Removed for Content] as bruisers are, so we should get a master 2 [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]slap by default imo Message Edited by TheSummoned on 05-15-2006 10:00 PM __________________ __________________________ Yukia, Darathar's bruiser - Retired Ajeco, 70 Splitpaw bruiser - Retired Ezahia, dirge of Validus, Splitpaw

05-16-2006, 12:03 AM	#6
Gungo Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Crushbone Posts: 5,378	This is actually not a half bad idea. fake death another person who draws agro. O wait thats a SK ability =P, still a maintained reactive fake death with deagro would be a sweet addtion to either subclass.

05-16-2006, 11:34 AM	#7
CosmicAcidGu Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 200	we already have that skill as the final ability in the Agi AA line. Finnster __________________

05-16-2006, 04:21 PM	#8
TheSummoned Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 713	Altruism sounds a good ability on paper, but in practice it's not all that great and after having it for about 3 weeks here are a couple reasons: 1.) It's dispelled quite often for no obvious reason. I have talked to the main tank about it, we figured it would be another death prevention spell dispelling it, but that wasn't the case, since after a bit of testing it would dispell on encounters that hardly pose any challange and there would be no need for a death prevention spell. 2.) If it does work, it's hardly a raid saver. Often the tank gets the FD, mob turns to raid and snipes a couple guys off, then turns back to the tank that just got up only to 2-3 shot him. I hardly ever saw it save the raid from a wipe. 3.) If you manage to die before the tank, it's off and with a 15 min recast it wont help you or the tank anymore if you are revived. 4.) When it does work and save the tank a few more seconds of tankage on that mob and if the raid wipes, they won't wait for you to get it back on the MT. In the end, Altruism isn't worth it's 24 points. And the biggest issue with this skill is the recast on it, besides the dispelling bug. Message Edited by TheSummoned on 05-16-2006 02:22 PM __________________ __________________________ Yukia, Darathar's bruiser - Retired Ajeco, 70 Splitpaw bruiser - Retired Ezahia, dirge of Validus, Splitpaw

05-16-2006, 05:35 PM	#9
PhozFa General Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 737	Altruism is very situational and i think I'd get it if the other abilities in the tree apealed to me more. 15 minute recast thou on a final tree AA ability sux IMO. 5 minute recast would be a little more reasonable or have the recast timer start when the ability is casted not when it wears off, then a 15 minute recast would be better. Message Edited by PhozFate on 05-16-2006 06:36 AM __________________