PVP: Target advice and how to stop runners?

[Rotanga]

I am fairly new to eq2 (only joined since pvp) and made a bruiser as I kind of like the flexibility of the class, however I have found it increasingly frustrating that if someone wants to kill me I have no chance of getting away, but yet when I try to kill someone they always run...I seem to have trouble selecting casters that have a pet also - or stealther types.....

 

I understand that later on I'll have AAs and CAs that will help, but for the 30s it seems that either I suck as a melee in pvp or that its just working as intended and we just arent able to pvp? Sure I have knockdowns but I always seem to get 'Target out of Range' or 'Target not in sight' rubbish, like I said, maybe I just suck at the class

 

I use lvl30 15.2rating duel wield crushing weaps atm, is there anything considerably better without having to pay out the wazoo?

 

Is there a weapon proc that can snare? Is there a trick for targetting casters instead of their pet? Am I doomed to being unable to kill anyone other than afkers - and maybe the odd tank or dumb lowbie?

 

I can  see that probably all tank types have this problem, and can imagine a lot of ppl saying, get support or maybe this class isnt for you (or game heh) but I refuse to believe that the game is so out of whack

 

Bruiser is supposed to be a dps melee char? when Im grouped and see some of the numbers that flash up I really wonder. Maybe Im just in a midlife crisis phase and it'll all come good? but I would hate to spend a lot of time levelling a char only to be substandard tank in the end game (unable to tank higher level mobs) , substandard dps (unable to outdps any dps class), substandard utility (unable to heal, or offer fluff) AND not be able to pvp.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ShinmaRyche]

As I dont play PVP, I cant comment on much of your post. Im sure pets taunting you stinks in PVP. We arent melee DPS though, were tanks.

 

Dont worry though, bruisers get nastier and meaner as you level.

[Radigazt]

This is how Bruisers are man, sorry to tell ya that.    In close mele range we do very very well.  Before the PvP servers went live we could chain-stun people in duels ... that was how we became good, by permanently keeping them in mele range.  When the PvP servers went live they gave double-duration immunity after your first stun wears off, so if you stun them for 1.8 seconds, then once the stun has finished they'll be immune to stuns for the next 3.6 seconds.  That works pretty well for most classes in PvP, but it specifically hurt Bruisers, because now we have no real device to keep them in mele range for any length of time.  Once they move outside of mele range, and if they can keep that speed/range difference of 5m or more, we cannot stun/fear/etc. them in any way ... we just watch them get away.  Our ranged attack has pitiful damage (understandably), but IMHO, we should have a Snare.  That would at least re-introduce risk when attacking a solo Bruiser.  As it is now, they attack, if they get lucky u die, if you start winnning, they run away successfully. 

Solution:  The only real solution I've found is that you need to team to make PvP effective as a Bruiser.  Scouts snare, casters root, healers can buff your running speed.  So, most people that you team with that are not tanks will be beneficial for dealing with runners.  IMHO, the tank classes should have a snare.  Roots mean you'll definitely catch them, so those might be a bit too powerful, but a snare is dependant upon how you apply it, and when you time it.  Alas, Bruisers had our Proc's nerfed, we received lackluster AA's, and are receiving some more minor nerfs. 

[Adewale]

You need to dish out a serious bit of burst damage, then mez/fear them (preferably mez). At this point, you could possibly use a hex doll for snare, mitigation decrease or whatever. Also a good time for your Sucker Punch line. It is tough, no doubt, but this latest live update made ranged melee damage as effective as regular melee damage (relative to your weapon quality) so that should help a bunch.

[Owa]

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AdewaleTD wrote:You need to dish out a serious bit of burst damage, then mez/fear them (preferably mez). At this point, you could possibly use a hex doll for snare, mitigation decrease or whatever. Also a good time for your Sucker Punch line. It is tough, no doubt, but this latest live update made ranged melee damage as effective as regular melee damage (relative to your weapon quality) so that should help a bunch.

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Hex Dolls are interrupted when you move and I can't see many classes standing still long enough for us to cast these on them. Also I don't think many Bruisers would give up the opportunity for burst damage on a stationary target in order to try to debuff with a hex doll.

Something has to be done though. If you come up against more than one Qeynos and either of 'em have root or snare it's pretty difficult to close with them to use your melee DPS or to chase 'em if they run. As things stand  - with our lack of ranged damage and/or snare - Bruisers are in the peculiar position of being one of the best solo classes in PvE and of of the the worst in PvP.

[Adewale]

I guess you didn't read that part about using mez. Or the change to ranged damage.I do great in PVP. Hard as hell to kill and devastating on everyone except tanks for the most part.

Message Edited by AdewaleTD on 03-23-200604:32 PM

[Pheeb]

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annaspider wrote:

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AdewaleTD wrote:You need to dish out a serious bit of burst damage, then mez/fear them (preferably mez). At this point, you could possibly use a hex doll for snare, mitigation decrease or whatever. Also a good time for your Sucker Punch line. It is tough, no doubt, but this latest live update made ranged melee damage as effective as regular melee damage (relative to your weapon quality) so that should help a bunch.

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Hex Dolls are interrupted when you move and I can't see many classes standing still long enough for us to cast these on them. Also I don't think many Bruisers would give up the opportunity for burst damage on a stationary target in order to try to debuff with a hex doll.

Something has to be done though. If you come up against more than one Qeynos and either of 'em have root or snare it's pretty difficult to close with them to use your melee DPS or to chase 'em if they run. As things stand  - with our lack of ranged damage and/or snare - Bruisers are in the peculiar position of being one of the best solo classes in PvE and of of the the worst in PvP.

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Somewhat related which adds to your facts.http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=7&message.id=15900

[Owa]

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AdewaleTD wrote:

I guess you didn't read that part about using mez. Or the change to ranged damage.I do great in PVP. Hard as hell to kill and devastating on everyone except tanks for the most part.

Message Edited by AdewaleTD on 03-23-200604:32 PM

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 Maybe I read it and didn't agree. Or maybe I had a point I wanted to make. Is that OK with you?

I haven't had a chance to experience the new ranged yet but I hope you're right and it makes a difference. As regards Mez, it's only eight seconds and is dispelled with any damage so it's hardly a major asset in PvP against groups.

Solo, I have trouble against groups with snare and/or root  - and so do the other Bruisers in my guild. Clearly that doesn't affect you, so maybe you could give us some tips so we too can 'do great in PvP'?

OTBBFIPCPS1987

Message Edited by annaspider on 03-23-200607:57 PM

[Zigmun]

"It is tough, no doubt, but this latest live update made ranged melee damage as effective as regular melee damage (relative to your weapon quality) so that should help a bunch."

Bruisers get ranged damage?

Woot - heh I didn't know that, can you maybe explain, what kind of ranged weapons do we use? - I'm new to bruiser class.

Thanks.

[Adewale]

Yeah, mez isn't useful in groups but it's more than useful in solo play. Also, if you're complaining about being solo against groups... maybe you should be happy you can put up a fight at all, heh. I'm glad people like you exist so non bruisers think we're a weak class.To the other poster, you can use bandoliers and pouches, etc, that us shurikens, throwing axes, whatever.

[Owa]

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AdewaleTD wrote:Yeah, mez isn't useful in groups but it's more than useful in solo play. Also, if you're complaining about being solo against groups... maybe you should be happy you can put up a fight at all, heh. I'm glad people like you exist so non bruisers think we're a weak class.To the other poster, you can use bandoliers and pouches, etc, that us shurikens, throwing axes, whatever.

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 Get used to people disagreeing with your opinions, mate - it'll happen a lot -and try not to be more offensive than you need. :smileywink:

Owain the British Bruiser -  'Fighting In Pub Car Parks Since 1987'

Message Edited by annaspider on 03-23-200610:15 PM

[wayfaerer]

Bruisers are probably the single strongest class in the game against groups. The high avoidance means groups of greens almost cant hurt you at all, combined with one of the highest burst damage in the game to beat wimpy greeny healing means you can often win. I've soloed groups of greens and even groups of blues when I get the jump on them fighting something.With regards to runners, I do one of 3 things. If they are near a zoneline and still high on health I just dont bother. If theyre low on health I chase them with ranged attack on. If they've still got a decent amount of health I sprint to try and hit them with kidney shot to knock them down and allow 3-4 other high damage arts to land, hoping to kill them before the stun wears off.A good idea to deal with people who will run is to not use arts at the start, just plain attack them down to near half then zerg the last half of their life down with a big chain of high damage attacks.

[Owa]

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wayfaerer wrote:Bruisers are probably the single strongest class in the game against groups. (?) The high avoidance means groups of greens almost cant hurt you at all (er...caster root & nuke?) , combined with one of the highest burst damage in the game to beat wimpy greeny healing means you can often win. I've soloed groups of greens and even groups of blues when I get the jump on them fighting something.With regards to runners, I do one of 3 things. If they are near a zoneline and still high on health I just dont bother. If theyre low on health I chase them with ranged attack on. If they've still got a decent amount of health I sprint to try and hit them with kidney shot to knock them down and allow 3-4 other high damage arts to land, hoping to kill them before the stun wears off.A good idea to deal with people who will run is to not use arts at the start, just plain attack them down to near half then zerg the last half of their life down with a big chain of high damage attacks.

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I think this is a good tactic at other times too. Often your opponent/victim is expecting you to unload all your DPS in one go and makes allowances for it by running, warding etc. Lull 'em into a false sense of security by letting your health go down a bit, self-heal and blam.

OTBBFIPCPS1987

[wayfaerer]

A green caster attempting to root/nuke me is laughable. Even if root does manage to land, which is highly doubtful, their attack spells simply don't do enough to bother me. The only way green groups can hurt me is if they have a good tank who manages to keep me taunted,  combined with good healers who keep the tank alive against my onslaught.

[fireto]

Beg borrow or steal to get good gear. Your two best friends should be an alchemist and a tailor. Harvest your butt off to get all Adept3s and pelts for armor. If you can't afford the rare crafted armor or better, at least get the emerald armor from the Hammer quests in Zek. Not the best, but decent in the 30s. You can get an imbued weapon for a little extra proc now and then. I almost always use dual wield, but if you're going to use a 2hander, make sure its fast. Something with a speed of 2.8 aint helping you in pvp.

[Splintered]

feel your pain guys (in regards to runners), as an inquisitor, for some reason they find i'm winning, they will just simply run away or evac, and there isn't anything I can do to stop them. Luckily for inquisitors, later on we have more ways to stop someone.

[Owa]

I was thinking about what Zizz Zazz wrote about never being bothered by roots and nukes from grey or green casters. And I came to the conclusion... that it's bollocks. Every single melee class in my guild on Venekor has trouble with groups of casters - in fact everyone I talked to has. I'd rather fight a solo orange con - if I could [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing find one that didn't either run away or call in his mates.

I myself got beaten up this morning by a group of greens and greys - one tank and 5 casters.  I couldn't move for roots and those DOTS and nukes finished me off in no time. Similar thing happened to our other high level Bruiser the day before. We can't close with 'em and we can't get away. So I'm calling shenanigans on you, sir - unless you know something we don't or have a bunch of Adept IIIs and fabled gear that makes all the difference.

Maybe I'm being harsh, too cynical? If you can give us tips on how to avoid these embarrassing deaths I will apologise, abjectly, salute your uberness and tell my kids how groovy you are [ if I had kids].

OTBBFIPCPS1987

[Adewale]

I never claimed going up against grey or green groups is going to be instantly easy, heh. I'm talking one on one encounters with all I've said above.  That you think you should be able to wipe out a full group no problem is the error in your thinking.This line: "maybe you should be happy you can put up a fight at all, heh. I'm glad people like you exist so non bruisers think we're a weak class." perhaps confused you. It means the fact that you don't get instantly squashed by a group is a sign Bruisers aren't pathetic. When you complain about stupid stuff like that, other people don't realize how powerful we can be when the stakes are even.For example, I took out a 57 wizard 3 times as a 50 bruiser... fair fight, one on one, no running or other lame tactics.

[Owa]

Fair fight with no running or other lame tactics...? Wish I could find one of those :smileyvery-happy:

 

Message Edited by annaspider on 03-25-200606:04 PM

[Greggthegrmreapr]

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annaspider wrote:

Fair fight with no running or other lame tactics...? Wish I could find one of those :smileyvery-happy:

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you won't on a pvp server

[Adewale]

Funny, I find them often enough.Also, the ranged damage change was a MASSIVE help for bruisers. Get yourself a real ranged weapon and use appropriately tiered throwing ammo and those guys you get to red/orange are going to have problems running away from now on.

[Owa]

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AdewaleTD wrote:Funny, I find them often enough.Also, the ranged damage change was a MASSIVE help for bruisers. Get yourself a real ranged weapon and use appropriately tiered throwing ammo and those guys you get to red/orange are going to have problems running away from now on.

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Actually I found one today - yellow con Champion Qeynosian Fury  - name of Nightfox.

Killed the hell out of me. :smileyvery-happy:

[Adewale]

Maybe you should just accept that you suck. I don't know.

[Owa]

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AdewaleTD wrote:Maybe you should just accept that you suck. I don't know.

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Possibly. :smileyvery-happy: Although being termed sucky after just one loss to a character two levels higher seems a bit harsh.

 

 

Owain the British Bruiser  - 'Fighting In Pub Car-Parks Since 1987'

[Pheeb]

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AdewaleTD wrote:Maybe you should just accept that you suck. I don't know.

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I think he said he was not the only one (read his original post) - I guess many of us suck or are not that special eh...especially after just a month of PvP being out...

[wayfaerer]

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annaspider wrote:

I was thinking about what Zizz Zazz wrote about never being bothered by roots and nukes from grey or green casters. And I came to the conclusion... that it's bollocks. Every single melee class in my guild on Venekor has trouble with groups of casters - in fact everyone I talked to has. I'd rather fight a solo orange con - if I could [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing find one that didn't either run away or call in his mates.

I myself got beaten up this morning by a group of greens and greys - one tank and 5 casters.  I couldn't move for roots and those DOTS and nukes finished me off in no time. Similar thing happened to our other high level Bruiser the day before. We can't close with 'em and we can't get away. So I'm calling shenanigans on you, sir - unless you know something we don't or have a bunch of Adept IIIs and fabled gear that makes all the difference.

Maybe I'm being harsh, too cynical? If you can give us tips on how to avoid these embarrassing deaths I will apologise, abjectly, salute your uberness and tell my kids how groovy you are [ if I had kids].

OTBBFIPCPS1987

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Well I don't know. As you probably know, casters get weaker as you get to higher tiers since much better resist gear becomes available. Additionally I have full T5 rare/imbued equipment which means I have extremely high resists.Myself, I would rather fight groups of green casters than a solo orange con. A solo orange con is either a death for me, or an escaped victim since I really have no way of stopping someone that hard to kill from escaping. A group of green con casters on the other hand are simply a group of 2-4 shot kills. With fear, mez, self heal, high avoidance, high hp and high resists, green groups are usually little threat. Don't forget your skill that dispells stun, it comes in handy.The sarcasm at the end of your post was unneeded. I've simply reported my experiences playing on Nagafen. I die sometimes, just like anyone else (well less than most given the nature of the Bruiser class), but I honestly can't ever remember dying to a green group.

[Owa]

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wayfaerer wrote:

The sarcasm at the end of your post was unneeded. I've simply reported my experiences playing on Nagafen. I die sometimes, just like anyone else (well less than most given the nature of the Bruiser class), but I honestly can't ever remember dying to a green group.

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The 'sarcasm' was actually one of my not-always-sucessful attempts at humour. No offense intended.

Anyway, in all seriousness, I really do look for helpful tips from other Bruisers and am painfully aware that I don't know it all. Believe me, I'd much prefer not being killed by lower-con caster groups and any advice on that  - and any other aspect of Bruiserin'  - is always welcome as far as I'm concerned!

OTBBFIPCPS1987

[Samani]

I rolled a bruiser on nagafen because honestly i had no idea what i wanted to play and I love tanking and my main is a SK. So there I was expecting to wtfpwn anything that showed up on my screen. . .

so sad, so very sad where my first few weeks in pvp. Finally things started turning around for me though as I learned how to play my class, and I eventually got my kills higher than my deaths yay.

lulling people into thinking they are winning is the best way to keep them from running. I'll use my low damage short recast CA's at the start and let my auto attack with 2 procing dual wields eat away at some life. then when i hit about 60% life or so i hit self heal and go to town. if they aren't dead yet they run. The biggest thing i can say at this point is get your level appropriate axes/shurikens/whatever. you use iron axes against a lvl 30 wizards and he's gonna laugh a little bit cus it tickles. With the right axes I see their hp drop each hit and very few end up getting away. I'm also gonna try the mezz then doll snare i read about on this post that sounds like a great way to keep these scouts from high tailing it out of there.

and I know everyone loves to solo cus everyone knows the only pvp is solo pvp /sigh. get yourself a friend with snare. You will be taking anything down orange on down.

[TorianReese]

One thing that I've found useful to thwart roots are potions that cure arcane.You can only use one potion every so often (I don't recall the recast off the top of my head), but usually you only need to break the one root in order to get close enough to finish the job.