Help with keeping aggro in large mobs

Jessyme · 11-15-2005, 01:22 PM

Good morning everyone-

I desperately need advice on keeping agro when pulling a mob with lots of monsters, and I have decided it is time to turn to the experts and ask for help. So here I am :smileyhappy:

I am the main tank for my groups most of the time. I have exactly two combat arts that affect a whole encounter, one is our AE taunt, and the other is our PBAoE that affects not only my encounter, but other creatures outside of my encounter. When I am the main tank and I have a large group of mobs it is next to impossible for me to keep agro on all the mobs in my encounter. I will pull with the AE taunt. Then I either need to keep switching targets which confuses the folks assisting off of me and often gains them agro since they stay with the one I started with, or the poor wizard ends up nuking the critter I just switched to and gains agro. Or I stay on my first target, usually the named, keep spamming my AE taunt the second it refreshes, and end up having the critters I am not actively fighting attack the priests who are healing and the mages who are AE’ing. I have no problem holding single target agro. It is only when I have a group of targets that my ability to hold agro falls by the wayside. One of the worst times ever for this was in BloodskullValley *shudders* We succeeded, but it got very ugly.

Anyone have any advice on how to keep agro when pulling a large group mob?

I read Bonesbro’s post on DPS and tanking in the forum sticky and found this gem:

"While you're running back:

Get agro. Get as much as possible. If the mob is chasing closely you can use your other taunts; getting off an AE taunt before the encounter makes it to the group is very important. Not only does it help ensure that the mobs will say stuck to you, but the sooner you use it the greater the chance it'll be back up for use again during the fight. Your group buff (the Call of Arms / Wisdom of Zephyl line) adds a lot of agro. Use it while running back to the group. If you've pulled with a taunt and used your AE taunt and your group buff you're going to have a much easier time holding agro throughout the fight. Now is also a good time to hit Martial Focus."

Thanks Bonesbro! I did not know that Zephyl and Martial Focus added agro.

Any other advice?

Also, SOE’s Sephiro from quality assurance is asking for feedback on the game if anyone is interested in posting their thoughts. The link is: http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=testfeed&message.id=33715

It is wonderful to see them asking for feedback like this :smileyvery-happy:

Thank you very much for any advice.

Quijana

Lost Coast Privateers, Nektulos

Cwi · 11-15-2005, 10:50 PM

Jessyme wrote:

...
I read Bonesbro’s post on DPS and tanking in the forum sticky and found this gem:

"While you're running back:

Get agro. Get as much as possible. If the mob is chasing closely you can use your other taunts; getting off an AE taunt before the encounter makes it to the group is very important. Not only does it help ensure that the mobs will say stuck to you, but the sooner you use it the greater the chance it'll be back up for use again during the fight. Your group buff (the Call of Arms / Wisdom of Zephyl line) adds a lot of agro. Use it while running back to the group. If you've pulled with a taunt and used your AE taunt and your group buff you're going to have a much easier time holding agro throughout the fight. Now is also a good time to hit Martial Focus."
...

This was very good advice before the combat revamp. However, since then the CAs mentioned aboved have changed. The Wisdom of Zephyl line now has a reuse timer that starts when you turn it off; before the revamp the reuse timer would start when you finished casting it. Now if you want to cast it while you're pulling you have to turn it off long enough ahead of time for the reuse timer to be up. Also, Martial Focus has changed; it used to be a temporary buff to Agi and Deflection (iirc) where as now its a stance (right?). To the best of my knowledge you could cast your stance CAs over and over and not generate any significant agro. (If I'm wrong about this, someone please enlighten me. SMILEY

) My advice when trying to tank multi-mob encounters is as follows. Obviously turn on your taunt proc and use your AE taunt, regular taunt and AE attack (provided you aren't going to agro extra mobs from using it) as often as possible. If you have enough healing power to use it safely, turn on your Everburning Flame line buff. If your group is going to be using AEs: Don't direct all your attacks at one target; hit one mob with one or two of your high damage or high agro generating attacks (ex. something with a stun) and a few swings of auto-attack and then switch targets to another mob and do the same, constantly moving from one target to the next. If you concentrate all your attacks and all your single target taunts at one mob while your group is AE'ing then you will lose agro, period. If your group will not be using AEs: First, make sure everyone is assisting you on your target. Use only your highest damage and highest agro generating attacks. Do not use the low damage, short recast attacks as they will eat up power and you want to save up all the power you can for taunts and large agro generating CAs. Hope that helps. SMILEY

Squidwalk · 11-16-2005, 03:47 AM

Group agro is tough for us monks. I found the new combat changes and things like dragon stance made it a bit easier. Here are my tips for being MT in group encounters. Make note, the people I run with are familiar with how I/we run groups, what their job is, and how I MT.

To start we make sure people use a /assist valentar macro, so they stay on my first targette mob, and move along from there.
I have up dragon stance, defensive stance, Wo% buff, and sparking hands ready to go.

1. I target the desired first mob such as named, healer/caster or heroic in the group. Run up pull using aoe taunt, run back, hit the main target with single taunt, then my aoe attack(if safe). I then might through up the FOTM line buff if needed, which build more agro for me (buffs=agro) By this time I recon I have good agro on it, the rest of the group, and my group should have /assist setup already.

2. I tab to next target, use two attacks, move to next target use two attacks, rince repeat. Whenever my taunts refresh I just hit them on what ever my current target is.

3. My gold is to hold agro, nothing else in this situation. If we are running a group, and attacking group encounters, my job is not dps, it's anything but holding agro. And with group encounters that's a full time job for a monk. I think I do a pretty decent job of it in these situations.

I have done a lot of running with a swashy ramping up their dps so I have practice in holding agro, or trying. SMILEY In my experience as long as I don't have mage or scout more then 5 levels above me I can hold group agro pretty decent. I usually have enough agro built up should something peel, I can usually get it back in a few seconds.

Hope this helps.

Jessyme · 11-16-2005, 06:44 PM

Thank you, Brice, for the advice of using only the taunts and specialty hate generating combat arts. When I tank I tend to cycle through all my combat arts as they refresh. Now I will stop doing that. I'm going to assume that any combat art that includes a knockdown, stifle or stun will be a hate generator and focus on those and stop using those fast refrest damage only attacks. Also, will continue to use the flurry attack line, since the 1000 hand slap would tick me off *grin*

And thank you Valentar for the group tanking walk thru. I have printed both of these up and will be using them next time I tank for a group. I never knew buffs ticked them off so much, so I will be sure to buff when I pull. Also, I did not know about tab to go to the next enemy. Targeting can be hell in a big mob (BSV *cough cough*) and that is incredibly helpful to know. And I will stop trying to be DPS while MT- no more burning through the combat arts as they refresh.

Thank you both again for the help!

Quijana

ArivenGemini · 11-16-2005, 11:24 PM

Jessyme wrote:
Also, I did not know about tab to go to the next enemy.

As long as your current target does not die, and you do not [esc] off him, hitting tab will cycle through all mobs in a given encounter and never walk off to that harvest node in the background SMILEY

Jobeson · 11-17-2005, 01:09 AM

stack your proc with your AE whenever possible. Wait for all mobs to be in range b4 AE taunting, it does have a range ya know. and tab through the encounter doing 1-2 CAs to every mob there. For people who want you to assist tell em to ae / bounce or tank a mob bc you can either tank for AEs or tank for direct damage, its not realy possible to do much of both well. be sure to tell em though if your gona be bouncing not to do too much to any single mob. BTW even when off tanking I normaly bounce around spreading dps out so I dont pull hate and if the tankw ould happen to loose agro I already have a small ammount built up.

Jessyme · 11-22-2005, 04:18 AM

I will definitely be using tab and bouncing from now on. It is nice to know that tab will stay in the mob only. Also, bouncing while offtanking also makes sense to keep from stealing aggro, though as I tend to be MT that is less of an issue for me. All of this advice is working quite well: I am much better at holding big group aggro now, though some do still get away from me off and on. And BSV is still hell (multiple big mobs are just awful!)

Thank you all for the advice!

Quijana

11-15-2005, 01:22 PM	#1
Jessyme Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 170	Good morning everyone- I desperately need advice on keeping agro when pulling a mob with lots of monsters, and I have decided it is time to turn to the experts and ask for help. So here I am :smileyhappy: I am the main tank for my groups most of the time. I have exactly two combat arts that affect a whole encounter, one is our AE taunt, and the other is our PBAoE that affects not only my encounter, but other creatures outside of my encounter. When I am the main tank and I have a large group of mobs it is next to impossible for me to keep agro on all the mobs in my encounter. I will pull with the AE taunt. Then I either need to keep switching targets which confuses the folks assisting off of me and often gains them agro since they stay with the one I started with, or the poor wizard ends up nuking the critter I just switched to and gains agro. Or I stay on my first target, usually the named, keep spamming my AE taunt the second it refreshes, and end up having the critters I am not actively fighting attack the priests who are healing and the mages who are AE’ing. I have no problem holding single target agro. It is only when I have a group of targets that my ability to hold agro falls by the wayside. One of the worst times ever for this was in BloodskullValley shudders We succeeded, but it got very ugly. Anyone have any advice on how to keep agro when pulling a large group mob? I read Bonesbro’s post on DPS and tanking in the forum sticky and found this gem: "While you're running back: Get agro. Get as much as possible. If the mob is chasing closely you can use your other taunts; getting off an AE taunt before the encounter makes it to the group is very important. Not only does it help ensure that the mobs will say stuck to you, but the sooner you use it the greater the chance it'll be back up for use again during the fight. Your group buff (the Call of Arms / Wisdom of Zephyl line) adds a lot of agro. Use it while running back to the group. If you've pulled with a taunt and used your AE taunt and your group buff you're going to have a much easier time holding agro throughout the fight. Now is also a good time to hit Martial Focus." Thanks Bonesbro! I did not know that Zephyl and Martial Focus added agro. Any other advice? Also, SOE’s Sephiro from quality assurance is asking for feedback on the game if anyone is interested in posting their thoughts. The link is: http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=testfeed&message.id=33715 It is wonderful to see them asking for feedback like this :smileyvery-happy: Thank you very much for any advice. Quijana Lost Coast Privateers, Nektulos __________________

11-15-2005, 10:50 PM	#2
Cwi Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 187	Jessyme wrote: ... I read Bonesbro’s post on DPS and tanking in the forum sticky and found this gem: "While you're running back: Get agro. Get as much as possible. If the mob is chasing closely you can use your other taunts; getting off an AE taunt before the encounter makes it to the group is very important. Not only does it help ensure that the mobs will say stuck to you, but the sooner you use it the greater the chance it'll be back up for use again during the fight. Your group buff (the Call of Arms / Wisdom of Zephyl line) adds a lot of agro. Use it while running back to the group. If you've pulled with a taunt and used your AE taunt and your group buff you're going to have a much easier time holding agro throughout the fight. Now is also a good time to hit Martial Focus." ... This was very good advice before the combat revamp. However, since then the CAs mentioned aboved have changed. The Wisdom of Zephyl line now has a reuse timer that starts when you turn it off; before the revamp the reuse timer would start when you finished casting it. Now if you want to cast it while you're pulling you have to turn it off long enough ahead of time for the reuse timer to be up. Also, Martial Focus has changed; it used to be a temporary buff to Agi and Deflection (iirc) where as now its a stance (right?). To the best of my knowledge you could cast your stance CAs over and over and not generate any significant agro. (If I'm wrong about this, someone please enlighten me. ) My advice when trying to tank multi-mob encounters is as follows. Obviously turn on your taunt proc and use your AE taunt, regular taunt and AE attack (provided you aren't going to agro extra mobs from using it) as often as possible. If you have enough healing power to use it safely, turn on your Everburning Flame line buff. If your group is going to be using AEs: Don't direct all your attacks at one target; hit one mob with one or two of your high damage or high agro generating attacks (ex. something with a stun) and a few swings of auto-attack and then switch targets to another mob and do the same, constantly moving from one target to the next. If you concentrate all your attacks and all your single target taunts at one mob while your group is AE'ing then you will lose agro, period. If your group will not be using AEs: First, make sure everyone is assisting you on your target. Use only your highest damage and highest agro generating attacks. Do not use the low damage, short recast attacks as they will eat up power and you want to save up all the power you can for taunts and large agro generating CAs. Hope that helps. __________________

11-16-2005, 03:47 AM	#3
Squidwalk Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 67	Group agro is tough for us monks. I found the new combat changes and things like dragon stance made it a bit easier. Here are my tips for being MT in group encounters. Make note, the people I run with are familiar with how I/we run groups, what their job is, and how I MT. To start we make sure people use a /assist valentar macro, so they stay on my first targette mob, and move along from there. I have up dragon stance, defensive stance, Wo% buff, and sparking hands ready to go. 1. I target the desired first mob such as named, healer/caster or heroic in the group. Run up pull using aoe taunt, run back, hit the main target with single taunt, then my aoe attack(if safe). I then might through up the FOTM line buff if needed, which build more agro for me (buffs=agro) By this time I recon I have good agro on it, the rest of the group, and my group should have /assist setup already. 2. I tab to next target, use two attacks, move to next target use two attacks, rince repeat. Whenever my taunts refresh I just hit them on what ever my current target is. 3. My gold is to hold agro, nothing else in this situation. If we are running a group, and attacking group encounters, my job is not dps, it's anything but holding agro. And with group encounters that's a full time job for a monk. I think I do a pretty decent job of it in these situations. I have done a lot of running with a swashy ramping up their dps so I have practice in holding agro, or trying. In my experience as long as I don't have mage or scout more then 5 levels above me I can hold group agro pretty decent. I usually have enough agro built up should something peel, I can usually get it back in a few seconds. Hope this helps. __________________

11-16-2005, 06:44 PM	#4
Jessyme Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 170	Thank you, Brice, for the advice of using only the taunts and specialty hate generating combat arts. When I tank I tend to cycle through all my combat arts as they refresh. Now I will stop doing that. I'm going to assume that any combat art that includes a knockdown, stifle or stun will be a hate generator and focus on those and stop using those fast refrest damage only attacks. Also, will continue to use the flurry attack line, since the 1000 hand slap would tick me off grin And thank you Valentar for the group tanking walk thru. I have printed both of these up and will be using them next time I tank for a group. I never knew buffs ticked them off so much, so I will be sure to buff when I pull. Also, I did not know about tab to go to the next enemy. Targeting can be hell in a big mob (BSV cough cough) and that is incredibly helpful to know. And I will stop trying to be DPS while MT- no more burning through the combat arts as they refresh. Thank you both again for the help! Quijana __________________

11-16-2005, 11:24 PM	#5
ArivenGemini Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,260	Jessyme wrote: Also, I did not know about tab to go to the next enemy. As long as your current target does not die, and you do not [esc] off him, hitting tab will cycle through all mobs in a given encounter and never walk off to that harvest node in the background __________________

11-17-2005, 01:09 AM	#6
Jobeson Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 127	stack your proc with your AE whenever possible. Wait for all mobs to be in range b4 AE taunting, it does have a range ya know. and tab through the encounter doing 1-2 CAs to every mob there. For people who want you to assist tell em to ae / bounce or tank a mob bc you can either tank for AEs or tank for direct damage, its not realy possible to do much of both well. be sure to tell em though if your gona be bouncing not to do too much to any single mob. BTW even when off tanking I normaly bounce around spreading dps out so I dont pull hate and if the tankw ould happen to loose agro I already have a small ammount built up.

11-22-2005, 04:18 AM	#7
Jessyme Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 170	I will definitely be using tab and bouncing from now on. It is nice to know that tab will stay in the mob only. Also, bouncing while offtanking also makes sense to keep from stealing aggro, though as I tend to be MT that is less of an issue for me. All of this advice is working quite well: I am much better at holding big group aggro now, though some do still get away from me off and on. And BSV is still hell (multiple big mobs are just awful!) Thank you all for the advice! Quijana __________________