Hints at spell and stat changes coming soon to test...

Arrowheart · 05-07-2005, 11:01 PM

Moorgard stated this in another post:

================================================== ===============================

This is already in progress as part of the upcoming balance changes. Every spell is getting looked at.

The reason our current system has some of these problems is that our spells grow two ways: by level and by quality. Your App3 at level X is not the same as your App3 at level Y, and because of that there can often be crossover points where one spell of a given quality is the same as a higher quality--or potentially less desireable in some way. We simply don't have enough headroom without making spells that do crazy damage.

That's why we're doing away with the concept of spells growing by level. This will allow us to make sure spells and arts have clearer benefits as you increase their quality tier.

We're also going to be organizing the knowledge book into spell lines so that upgrade paths are a lot easier to understand. There will likely be new spells added to flesh out some of the lines a bit more, so current spells that grow infinitely will likely be replaced by spell lines that accomplish much the same thing.

Not all the spell changes we're making are about balance. Another good reason for them is to make our spell system more consistent and easier for players to understand.

As for the next phase of the changes that will be showing up on Test server soon: Intelligence will provide a much more noticeable bonus to spell damage, and Wisdom will be important for mitigating the damage bonus of your opponent. So yes, you will have a good reason to buff your INT and WIS, just like many of you have been asking for.

===========================
Moorgard
EverQuest II Community Guy

Message Edited by Arrowheart on 05-08-2005 04:03 PM

IrulanDunedanc · 05-07-2005, 11:14 PM

Well, at least it'll make all that int and wis on brawler gear useful. I sense a rather drastic rise in the price of App4's, Adepts, and Masters coming if that makes it live.

woo · 05-08-2005, 01:10 AM

cool.. although im not quite sure doing away with scaling spells was the right way to fix that issue..

int/wis being usefull = :smileysurprised: !

zabor · 05-08-2005, 01:53 AM

Int won't be useful for us. Int increases spell damage, thus being important for casters.Wisdom on the other hand will be quite handy because spell caster usually beat us up quite good. Some increased resistances won't be so bad.

woo · 05-08-2005, 03:57 AM

seems like paladins are going to make out really really well..

Rohlstu · 05-08-2005, 04:16 AM

Well I hope that also look at our self buffs and allow more stacking and reduce the darn concentration points on some to allow more than one to be applied.

The Matrix Drag · 05-08-2005, 09:34 AM

If they do this they will need to increase the drop rate of upgrades, otherwise anyone that does not twink will not be able to afford to upgrade. On my server at least low lvl upgrades lvl 10-20 are selling for around 3g.

woo · 05-08-2005, 09:50 AM

spells are stupid the way they are priced.

example:

i find a spell.. lets call it Jack(adept 1)

i go to merchant.. it sells for 66s.

i go to put it on broker, and there are 8 for sale under 10 silver. um.. .. ..

or.. the exact opposite

i go to buy George (adept1) and

George (App 4): 9999plat

George (Master1) 5plat

George (adept1: 1 plat

George (Adept III) 1 plat

George (adept 1) 99g99s99c

rarely is anything actually priced decently.. most people just press 999999 plat or put a 10 silver tag on it..

Nefari · 05-09-2005, 05:21 PM

People do similar things on AB quite often, price spells/sell loot below the merchant price... I love those people! I call them stupid, buy up their stuff, and make a nice profit. All hail the stupid people! May you live forever.

Andur · 05-10-2005, 07:52 PM

lol that is the exact same thing i do Nefarien i bet i have made over 5g that way!!

salerene · 05-10-2005, 08:11 PM

Nefarien wrote:
People do similar things on AB quite often, price spells/sell loot below the merchant price...

I love those people! I call them stupid, buy up their stuff, and make a nice profit.

All hail the stupid people! May you live forever.

Its not that they are stupid it's because they are not greedy. If I find a spell I can't use I'll check what the merchant will give me for it and price it about 5 silver higher. I'm not greedy or I'll check the going price on the market and see what most are pricing it. If it doesnt sell then I lower it some.

If people want to be greedy and hurt others fun then I guess more power to them, but making someone else stress about upgrades isn't very friendly.

As it is right now 2 of my characters can't upgrade anything, because of all the idiots pricing things way to high.(being greedy.)

But I guess its not all thier fault SOE makes it so hard to get things and making the cost to make spells/arts to much people want thier money back. Just remember that you were a lower level trying to make some money and upgrade stuff once.

Not sure about anyone else, but I really don't want someone in my group with app1 spells/arts and all grey armor. theres only two reasons that would be

1. things cost to much money.(I think this is biggest reason)

2. person doesnt care.

Nefari · 05-10-2005, 09:01 PM

Its not that they are stupid it's because they are not greedy. If I find a spell I can't use I'll check what the merchant will give me for it and price it about 5 silver higher. I'm not greedy or I'll check the going price on the market and see what most are pricing it. If it doesnt sell then I lower it some. Exactly salerene, see what you're doing is not what I'm talking about... There will be a spell that sells to the NPC merchant for 2G, 66s....at the BROKER, there will be a 5-10 copies of it for sale for 3G. There will also be 3-4 for sale for 2G. Maybe you can say they're generous because they're selling it to the player base for less than the NPC merchant will give them. I say that's wrong... I say they've had the spell for sale for SO long without a buyer, and they've kept lowering the price. They've forgotten what the NPC merchant pays for it. I haven't forgotten. They get my 2G, they're happy, I get a nice little profit to pay for that evening's repairs, food, or thrown weapons. I fail to see how what I'm doing is "hurting anyone's fun". In fact, I fail to see how it's greedy at all. GREEDY is the Provisioner Police on AB, who will actively berate, /tell hell, and talk badly about you to customers if you price your goods below what THEY think they should sell for. THAT is greed.

DearthofWeal · 05-11-2005, 08:46 PM

Nefarien wrote:Its not that they are stupid it's because they are not greedy. If I find a spell I can't use I'll check what the merchant will give me for it and price it about 5 silver higher. I'm not greedy or I'll check the going price on the market and see what most are pricing it. If it doesnt sell then I lower it some. Exactly salerene, see what you're doing is not what I'm talking about... There will be a spell that sells to the NPC merchant for 2G, 66s....at the BROKER, there will be a 5-10 copies of it for sale for 3G. There will also be 3-4 for sale for 2G. Maybe you can say they're generous because they're selling it to the player base for less than the NPC merchant will give them. I say that's wrong... I say they've had the spell for sale for SO long without a buyer, and they've kept lowering the price. They've forgotten what the NPC merchant pays for it. I haven't forgotten. They get my 2G, they're happy, I get a nice little profit to pay for that evening's repairs, food, or thrown weapons. I fail to see how what I'm doing is "hurting anyone's fun". In fact, I fail to see how it's greedy at all. GREEDY is the Provisioner Police on AB, who will actively berate, /tell hell, and talk badly about you to customers if you price your goods below what THEY think they should sell for. THAT is greed.

Correctomundo there! I made 35gp on those Ruby Studded Wristguards because people in Longshadow/Big Bend? would get a different price at the merchant than the people in Stonestair or people would go in and continually undercut. I learned quickly it sold for 3g and some silver and snatched up every single one that could turn me a profit. It's what I did in the mornings before I had to go to work. Also did this with a few other items/adepts. It's just smart business. And on Crushbone we have the provisioner police too...

Tulw · 05-12-2005, 08:32 AM

salerene wrote:

Its not that they are stupid it's because they are not greedy. If I find a spell I can't use I'll check what the merchant will give me for it and price it about 5 silver higher. I'm not greedy or I'll check the going price on the market and see what most are pricing it. If it doesnt sell then I lower it some.

If people want to be greedy and hurt others fun then I guess more power to them, but making someone else stress about upgrades isn't very friendly.

As it is right now 2 of my characters can't upgrade anything, because of all the idiots pricing things way to high.(being greedy.)

But I guess its not all thier fault SOE makes it so hard to get things and making the cost to make spells/arts to much people want thier money back. Just remember that you were a lower level trying to make some money and upgrade stuff once.

Not sure about anyone else, but I really don't want someone in my group with app1 spells/arts and all grey armor. theres only two reasons that would be

1. things cost to much money.(I think this is biggest reason)

2. person doesnt care.

I'd have to agree with you there mostly, but I think part of it is also that many people don't know what to price things at because they don't think to check what merchants offer or just don't bother. They think that they are safer selling it for higher coin so that they can be sure that they don't get ripped off in the deal.

Maybe what SOE should do is impliment a "recommended selling price" feature in the player-merchant window thingy (can't remember what it is called =Þ) for each item when you select it so that at least some people would know what a good price would be. I think if they did this it would help these rediculous prices alot because other players would have to bring the prices down or they would never sell anything. They could even base it off of the amount merchants offer and add a little coin so that it wouldn't be a complex feature to impliment.

One thing is for certain when they make this change something will have to be done or there are going to be alot of players giving mysupersales some serious consideration. :smileytongue:

05-08-2005, 01:53 AM	#4
zabor General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 425	Int won't be useful for us. Int increases spell damage, thus being important for casters.Wisdom on the other hand will be quite handy because spell caster usually beat us up quite good. Some increased resistances won't be so bad. __________________

05-08-2005, 04:16 AM	#6
Rohlstu Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 76	Well I hope that also look at our self buffs and allow more stacking and reduce the darn concentration points on some to allow more than one to be applied. __________________ Vin Diesel once beat Super Mario Bros 3 without even touching his Nintendo controller. He just yelled at his TV in between bites of his "Filet of Child" sandwich, and the game beat itself out of fear.

05-10-2005, 08:11 PM	#11
salerene Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 72	Nefarien wrote: People do similar things on AB quite often, price spells/sell loot below the merchant price... I love those people! I call them stupid, buy up their stuff, and make a nice profit. All hail the stupid people! May you live forever. Its not that they are stupid it's because they are not greedy. If I find a spell I can't use I'll check what the merchant will give me for it and price it about 5 silver higher. I'm not greedy or I'll check the going price on the market and see what most are pricing it. If it doesnt sell then I lower it some. If people want to be greedy and hurt others fun then I guess more power to them, but making someone else stress about upgrades isn't very friendly. As it is right now 2 of my characters can't upgrade anything, because of all the idiots pricing things way to high.(being greedy.) But I guess its not all thier fault SOE makes it so hard to get things and making the cost to make spells/arts to much people want thier money back. Just remember that you were a lower level trying to make some money and upgrade stuff once. Not sure about anyone else, but I really don't want someone in my group with app1 spells/arts and all grey armor. theres only two reasons that would be 1. things cost to much money.(I think this is biggest reason) 2. person doesnt care. __________________ *To Err is Human, To really Screw Up* You Need A Computer.**

05-12-2005, 08:32 AM	#14
Tulw Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 19	salerene wrote: Its not that they are stupid it's because they are not greedy. If I find a spell I can't use I'll check what the merchant will give me for it and price it about 5 silver higher. I'm not greedy or I'll check the going price on the market and see what most are pricing it. If it doesnt sell then I lower it some. If people want to be greedy and hurt others fun then I guess more power to them, but making someone else stress about upgrades isn't very friendly. As it is right now 2 of my characters can't upgrade anything, because of all the idiots pricing things way to high.(being greedy.) But I guess its not all thier fault SOE makes it so hard to get things and making the cost to make spells/arts to much people want thier money back. Just remember that you were a lower level trying to make some money and upgrade stuff once. Not sure about anyone else, but I really don't want someone in my group with app1 spells/arts and all grey armor. theres only two reasons that would be 1. things cost to much money.(I think this is biggest reason) 2. person doesnt care. I'd have to agree with you there mostly, but I think part of it is also that many people don't know what to price things at because they don't think to check what merchants offer or just don't bother. They think that they are safer selling it for higher coin so that they can be sure that they don't get ripped off in the deal. Maybe what SOE should do is impliment a "recommended selling price" feature in the player-merchant window thingy (can't remember what it is called =Þ) for each item when you select it so that at least some people would know what a good price would be. I think if they did this it would help these rediculous prices alot because other players would have to bring the prices down or they would never sell anything. They could even base it off of the amount merchants offer and add a little coin so that it wouldn't be a complex feature to impliment. One thing is for certain when they make this change something will have to be done or there are going to be alot of players giving mysupersales some serious consideration. :smileytongue: __________________

05-07-2005, 11:01 PM	#1
Arrowheart Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 243	Moorgard stated this in another post: ================================================== =============================== This is already in progress as part of the upcoming balance changes. Every spell is getting looked at. The reason our current system has some of these problems is that our spells grow two ways: by level and by quality. Your App3 at level X is not the same as your App3 at level Y, and because of that there can often be crossover points where one spell of a given quality is the same as a higher quality--or potentially less desireable in some way. We simply don't have enough headroom without making spells that do crazy damage. That's why we're doing away with the concept of spells growing by level. This will allow us to make sure spells and arts have clearer benefits as you increase their quality tier. We're also going to be organizing the knowledge book into spell lines so that upgrade paths are a lot easier to understand. There will likely be new spells added to flesh out some of the lines a bit more, so current spells that grow infinitely will likely be replaced by spell lines that accomplish much the same thing. Not all the spell changes we're making are about balance. Another good reason for them is to make our spell system more consistent and easier for players to understand. As for the next phase of the changes that will be showing up on Test server soon: Intelligence will provide a much more noticeable bonus to spell damage, and Wisdom will be important for mitigating the damage bonus of your opponent. So yes, you will have a good reason to buff your INT and WIS, just like many of you have been asking for. =========================== Moorgard EverQuest II Community Guy Message Edited by Arrowheart on 05-08-2005 04:03 PM

05-07-2005, 11:14 PM	#2
IrulanDunedanc Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 142	Well, at least it'll make all that int and wis on brawler gear useful. I sense a rather drastic rise in the price of App4's, Adepts, and Masters coming if that makes it live.

05-08-2005, 01:10 AM	#3
woo Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 239	cool.. although im not quite sure doing away with scaling spells was the right way to fix that issue.. int/wis being usefull = :smileysurprised: !

05-08-2005, 03:57 AM	#5
woo Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 239	seems like paladins are going to make out really really well..

05-08-2005, 09:34 AM	#7
The Matrix Drag Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1	If they do this they will need to increase the drop rate of upgrades, otherwise anyone that does not twink will not be able to afford to upgrade. On my server at least low lvl upgrades lvl 10-20 are selling for around 3g.

05-08-2005, 09:50 AM	#8
woo Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 239	spells are stupid the way they are priced. example: i find a spell.. lets call it Jack(adept 1) i go to merchant.. it sells for 66s. i go to put it on broker, and there are 8 for sale under 10 silver. um.. .. .. or.. the exact opposite i go to buy George (adept1) and George (App 4): 9999plat George (Master1) 5plat George (adept1: 1 plat George (Adept III) 1 plat George (adept 1) 99g99s99c rarely is anything actually priced decently.. most people just press 999999 plat or put a 10 silver tag on it..

05-09-2005, 05:21 PM	#9
Nefari Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 91	People do similar things on AB quite often, price spells/sell loot below the merchant price... I love those people! I call them stupid, buy up their stuff, and make a nice profit. All hail the stupid people! May you live forever.

05-10-2005, 07:52 PM	#10
Andur Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 8	lol that is the exact same thing i do Nefarien i bet i have made over 5g that way!!

05-10-2005, 09:01 PM	#12
Nefari Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 91	Its not that they are stupid it's because they are not greedy. If I find a spell I can't use I'll check what the merchant will give me for it and price it about 5 silver higher. I'm not greedy or I'll check the going price on the market and see what most are pricing it. If it doesnt sell then I lower it some. Exactly salerene, see what you're doing is not what I'm talking about... There will be a spell that sells to the NPC merchant for 2G, 66s....at the BROKER, there will be a 5-10 copies of it for sale for 3G. There will also be 3-4 for sale for 2G. Maybe you can say they're generous because they're selling it to the player base for less than the NPC merchant will give them. I say that's wrong... I say they've had the spell for sale for SO long without a buyer, and they've kept lowering the price. They've forgotten what the NPC merchant pays for it. I haven't forgotten. They get my 2G, they're happy, I get a nice little profit to pay for that evening's repairs, food, or thrown weapons. I fail to see how what I'm doing is "hurting anyone's fun". In fact, I fail to see how it's greedy at all. GREEDY is the Provisioner Police on AB, who will actively berate, /tell hell, and talk badly about you to customers if you price your goods below what THEY think they should sell for. THAT is greed.

05-11-2005, 08:46 PM	#13
DearthofWeal Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 36	Nefarien wrote:Its not that they are stupid it's because they are not greedy. If I find a spell I can't use I'll check what the merchant will give me for it and price it about 5 silver higher. I'm not greedy or I'll check the going price on the market and see what most are pricing it. If it doesnt sell then I lower it some. Exactly salerene, see what you're doing is not what I'm talking about... There will be a spell that sells to the NPC merchant for 2G, 66s....at the BROKER, there will be a 5-10 copies of it for sale for 3G. There will also be 3-4 for sale for 2G. Maybe you can say they're generous because they're selling it to the player base for less than the NPC merchant will give them. I say that's wrong... I say they've had the spell for sale for SO long without a buyer, and they've kept lowering the price. They've forgotten what the NPC merchant pays for it. I haven't forgotten. They get my 2G, they're happy, I get a nice little profit to pay for that evening's repairs, food, or thrown weapons. I fail to see how what I'm doing is "hurting anyone's fun". In fact, I fail to see how it's greedy at all. GREEDY is the Provisioner Police on AB, who will actively berate, /tell hell, and talk badly about you to customers if you price your goods below what THEY think they should sell for. THAT is greed. Correctomundo there! I made 35gp on those Ruby Studded Wristguards because people in Longshadow/Big Bend? would get a different price at the merchant than the people in Stonestair or people would go in and continually undercut. I learned quickly it sold for 3g and some silver and snatched up every single one that could turn me a profit. It's what I did in the mornings before I had to go to work. Also did this with a few other items/adepts. It's just smart business. And on Crushbone we have the provisioner police too...