Video Proof

Khuds · 02-22-2005, 10:32 PM

Over the past week or so there has been alot of chatter on these forums and elsewhere indicating that monks can no longer tank nor solo. In numerous threads I've seen people claim in specific that we cannot take Green^^ as we once could. I provided counterpoints describing that this is not true and that we CAN still solo green^^. Anyhow, this resulted in people in game, on the forums, and even in PM's telling me that I must be lying as it is simply impossible to solo green^^ anymore. They asked me to provide proof and I decided to do so SMILEY

Keep in mind that this only addresses concerns over solo'ing green^^ and not the slew of other rants people have brought up over the monk subclass. I filmed this last evening and decided to post it. To make it more interesting I didn't simply solo a standard green^^, but instead one of the various named mobs placed throughout the world of EQ2. In this video I am also able to demonstrate why even since patch I have been agility heavy, and have not changed my views that it makes or breaks a monk. To avoid any confusion, I am using a custom UI from www.eq2interface.com. My health indicator is bottom center just under the target health readout.Enjoy...

Message Edited by Khudson on 02-22-2005 09:45 AM

Kwonryu_DragonFi · 02-22-2005, 11:41 PM

Problem isnt really soloing greens (greens never were a problem, were they?), but being able to perform in a group vs yellow mobs 40+.The new mitigation helps a bit, but not alot, especially compared with the plate fighters.

Khuds · 02-22-2005, 11:43 PM

I agree somewhat with you there. I've been tanking but taking more damage than prior.The video though was specific to some people claiming we can no longer solo green^^, which confused me quite a bit as I didn't have the problem.My AC is currently 4242, but at times it doesnt feel like it when tanking. Though, I do believe we _can_ still tank; it's just not the way it was prior to two patches back.

Message Edited by Khudson on 02-22-2005 10:45 AM

kerra · 02-22-2005, 11:51 PM

I was in a 4 man group last night in CT and I was tanking lvl 45^^ mobs, I really see no problem with tanking other than the fact we still get huge spikes in damage. They said that the added mitigation would cure this and from what I have seen it does not however, I have seen a positive change in the class since it was added.

Khuds · 02-22-2005, 11:52 PM

Agree with you there SMILEY

Maybe Im just more easy going than alot of people, because I still have alot of fun playing my monk.

Message Edited by Khudson on 02-22-2005 10:53 AM

Lodak · 02-23-2005, 12:35 AM

Khudson wrote:

Maybe Im just more easy going than alot of people, because I still have alot of fun playing my monk.

That pretty much says it all. :smileyhappy:

Zasarix · 02-23-2005, 12:46 AM

You human monks are so silly to watch fight.. *pat pat* Fist, Tail and Scales SMILEY

kerra · 02-23-2005, 12:52 AM

Zasarix wrote:

You human monks are so silly to watch fight.. *pat pat* Fist, Tail and Scales

Role play much?:smileywink:

Message Edited by kerra on 02-22-2005 11:53 AM

ArivenGemini · 02-23-2005, 01:14 AM

Zasarix wrote:
You human monks are so silly to watch fight.. *pat pat* Fist, Tail and Scales

Yes, I have to agree human monks are silly to watch... SMILEY

Good thing Synnovea is a wood elf monk.. Cause they rock (as my Samtha would attest to) SMILEY

Khuds · 02-23-2005, 01:35 AM

And ANY monk can benefit from having Carl Douglas singing Kung Fu Fighting in the background SMILEY

It ends up vaulting you from mediocre to super keen, flipping, kicking master wearing AQ pajamas.Hrm, the single star stalker strikes again. And back into the shadows the beast has gone.

Message Edited by Khudson on 02-22-2005 12:39 PM

Aegi · 02-23-2005, 02:13 AM

Khudson wrote:Agree with you thereMaybe Im just more easy going than alot of people, because I still have alot of fun playing my monk.
Message Edited by Khudson on 02-22-2005 10:53 AM

Amen. I don't really get what all the complaining is about, I still have a great time, and don't really notice a difference in my abilities.

Terminus E · 02-23-2005, 03:19 AM

I am truely stunned by that. Not so much that you were able to do it, but that you took hardly any damage. Fighting any green^^ mob I am dead within seconds. What are you doing that I am not?

I have good equipment, reasonable spells, and I have picked every racial trait/training to increas AGI that I can find. Seriously, I take more damage fighting a solo green than you take on green^^, but there was nothing that you did in that clip which I don't do. No special trick that I could see.

Is there an explanation for this or is this game just bugged to death?

Khuds · 02-23-2005, 03:45 AM

See..That is what I am trying to figure out. I mean in that people are achieving results between two polar opposite extremes. I've been looking for some sort of common ground between those who don't have any problem and those that do. So far I really haven't turned up anything.Mostly, I've just kept my agi up to date as well as all of my equipment. As of current I have a 128 agility; which is down two points from when I swapped a piece of equipment a week or two ago. My total unbuffed ac calculates to 4202, which often seems to be even higher than some of the other warrior classes of equal level. But then again, I still do not have a clear understanding of exactly HOW the visible numeric actually calculates. Instead, I only end up knowing less than I did prior to each SOE post I read on the topic. I want everybody to love their monks! Why should I be the only one having fun? Seriously though; it does frustrate me that I can't see any clear reasoning behind it all. Even though I am not experiencing such difficulty, I still care enough to wonder why others are. SMILEY

Message Edited by Khudson on 02-22-2005 02:47 PM

Solaera_E · 02-23-2005, 03:46 AM

In my experience, when soloing a green ^^, make sure the green in question is 4-5 levels below you and it shouldn't be a problem (make sure to be in defensive stance, e.g. sweeping crane). This is especially true since they widenend the con range for green mobs - that is, as of a few weeks ago, mobs stay greener longer so that people who were having trouble can still xp off of them. Basically, for mobs 5 or more levels under you, it's like you're fighting something that more than a few weeks ago would have been grey, but now it's still green. In my experience, any ^^ mob within three levels will still own you (I'd like to see a video showing otherwise). It's all a matter of choosing your target wisely. Don't pick on spellcaster group mobs either... ouch.I've soloed some green ^^ mobs in TS, EL, Zek, RE, etc. If you want to do it to just prove you can, or to kill time it's cool, but it's really not worth it IMO if you are simply looking for solo xp. In my mind you're better off killing solo mobs that take much much less time to kill and just killing more of them. I have noticed that it's much faster to burn your power and take solo mobs out quick, regening afterwards, than to sit there auto-attacking a green ^^ for several minutes after you have run out of power as you wait for it to die (as can be seen in the video also).Just my opinion.

Khuds · 02-23-2005, 03:50 AM

I used to solo the green^^ defiled knights in Stormhold WAAAY before the agi nerf or any of the other changes. I'd guess that now theyd be much harder for anybody else that would try the same under the same circumstances. Well, that is without taking into consideration the level range changes.Yes it does take forever for me to solo windfeather. And I agree on the fact that it's alot faster to go to Zek and just run around hunting grunts. But windfeather however was dropping rare resources quite ofte, along with earrings of shadow, storm shields, among tons of other odds and ends. It is nice at times to be able to just pick something up off a mob without worrying about who wants it.Well, maybe that is because I am too nice while grouping and pretty much decline EVERYTHING until somebody says no no you should have this. So then im bankrupt and have to go find some tedious mob that takes a century to kill so I can get it to drop a golden carrot or rare albino Pikachu... Or something. Anyhow, waaay off topic. I mean, yes I agree. It takes way too long to kill certain ^^ mobs and your better off finding areas that are plentiful in lower level range beasties wandering about.

Message Edited by Khudson on 02-22-2005 02:56 PM

Mamasee · 02-23-2005, 03:59 AM

Everyone knows Windfeather is a undercon, or so will say the woe-is-monk crowd.

SomeDudeCRO · 02-23-2005, 05:48 AM

Here's some video of me tanking today in Perma SMILEY

http://www.videodesk.net/show.aspx?user_key=17788&file=Tank_Post3.wmv&send_link=1

Inv · 02-23-2005, 04:42 PM

I have noticed my miss rate to the front on skills is rather insulting even aginst green cons. What really is annoying it in grp fights skills tend to land almost all the time on me. Overall the "improvement" has made it better I can tank when people really are desperate and don't do to bad. I still get out classed rather easily by alot of plate tanks. The gap tho in tanking skill is narrower but would like to see it a bit smaller. Casters seem to flatten us alot more then a plate. I think the spell avoidance skill is broken or not working at all lol. But hopefully things will improve and not be forgotten as I fear they may be. Still testing some tanking skills and seeing how it goes the spike dmg is scary still. Also noticed I avoid about the same as a plate tank atm I have to be wrong lol still looking into that SMILEY

Ala · 02-23-2005, 07:18 PM

I can't wait to get home to watch your video! My work computer stinks becuase I'm in sales and they give all the good stuff to production.
There are some con green ^ ^ you can solo and some that you cannot. I think those that had problems found themselves toe-to-toe with a magic caster which can rip you to shreds.
Monks can tank well given the right circumstanes. However, we are still not equal to plate class tanks, at least Guardians.

Abedni · 02-24-2005, 01:10 AM

Alarr wrote:
I can't wait to get home to watch your video! My work computer stinks becuase I'm in sales and they give all the good stuff to production.
There are some con green ^ ^ you can solo and some that you cannot. I think those that had problems found themselves toe-to-toe with a magic caster which can rip you to shreds.
Monks can tank well given the right circumstanes. However, we are still not equal to plate class tanks, at least Guardians.

I find that to be very true. I can solo quite a few ++ green mobs, but others just destroy me. There is a mob in Vermin's Snye (can't remember his name, but he drops the Mace of Twilight). I soloed him the other day. He was Green ++ and had two green skellies with him. I managed to kill all three without a problem. But a few days earlier I wandered onto the undead island north of NQ and came across the named skellie there. In about 6 seconds he killed me with 3-4 spells at 200-300 damage each. He's green ++ too.

Nefari · 02-24-2005, 01:38 AM

Personally, I have never bought into the agi nerf making us useless as tanks. I'm still a good tank, even on yellow/orange/red mobs. I get hit a little more, true, but I mitigate better. Ok not exactly what I used to do, but it's fine. I still get hit WAY WAY less than a plate tank.If I'm with a Templar or such, I will never be as good as a guardian. Oh well. The best wpns in the game, they won't put out the dmg I do. BUT throw me a Ward healer, and I'm pretty close to a Guard/Templar duo. VERY close.Guardians are fantastic meat shields, we are fantastic in the right situation (namely ward healers). I still love my Monk.Oh and I still go full-bore for Agi. To me the nerf did very, very little.Nefalu41st Monk33rd Provisionerwww.savagehonour.comAntonia Bayle

himesan · 02-24-2005, 10:57 PM

Nice video, but i got a question about the fighting animation.

Is it because you used 2 cestis or do you have to put a command to switch it to that fighting stance. I really love that monk stance since i saw a monk use it in the trailer. So can you tell me how to get that fighting animation?

Much thanks.

xrippe · 02-24-2005, 11:29 PM

Cant change fight styles unfortunatly. Its just looks different depending on the weapons forms you use.

Khuds · 02-25-2005, 11:08 PM

In that Im actually using a pair of pristine etched fist wraps.The problem is that the pristine etched are bugged right now and they are using the forged nuckle models. It's very annoying SMILEY

They are SUPPOSED to look just like fists and nothing more. The odd thing is the levels below pristine do look like fists, yet pristine do not.

02-22-2005, 10:32 PM	#1
Khuds Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 79	Over the past week or so there has been alot of chatter on these forums and elsewhere indicating that monks can no longer tank nor solo. In numerous threads I've seen people claim in specific that we cannot take Green^^ as we once could. I provided counterpoints describing that this is not true and that we CAN still solo green^^. Anyhow, this resulted in people in game, on the forums, and even in PM's telling me that I must be lying as it is simply impossible to solo green^^ anymore. They asked me to provide proof and I decided to do so Keep in mind that this only addresses concerns over solo'ing green^^ and not the slew of other rants people have brought up over the monk subclass. I filmed this last evening and decided to post it. To make it more interesting I didn't simply solo a standard green^^, but instead one of the various named mobs placed throughout the world of EQ2. In this video I am also able to demonstrate why even since patch I have been agility heavy, and have not changed my views that it makes or breaks a monk. To avoid any confusion, I am using a custom UI from www.eq2interface.com. My health indicator is bottom center just under the target health readout.Enjoy... Message Edited by Khudson on 02-22-2005 09:45 AM

02-22-2005, 11:52 PM	#5
Khuds Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 79	Agree with you thereMaybe Im just more easy going than alot of people, because I still have alot of fun playing my monk. Message Edited by Khudson on 02-22-2005 10:53 AM

02-23-2005, 12:35 AM	#6
Lodak General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 27	Khudson wrote: Maybe Im just more easy going than alot of people, because I still have alot of fun playing my monk. That pretty much says it all. :smileyhappy:

02-23-2005, 01:14 AM	#9
ArivenGemini Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,260	Zasarix wrote: You human monks are so silly to watch fight.. pat pat Fist, Tail and Scales Yes, I have to agree human monks are silly to watch... Good thing Synnovea is a wood elf monk.. Cause they rock (as my Samtha would attest to) __________________

02-23-2005, 01:35 AM	#10
Khuds Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 79	And ANY monk can benefit from having Carl Douglas singing Kung Fu Fighting in the background It ends up vaulting you from mediocre to super keen, flipping, kicking master wearing AQ pajamas.Hrm, the single star stalker strikes again. And back into the shadows the beast has gone. Message Edited by Khudson on 02-22-2005 12:39 PM

02-22-2005, 11:41 PM	#2
Kwonryu_DragonFi Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 183	Problem isnt really soloing greens (greens never were a problem, were they?), but being able to perform in a group vs yellow mobs 40+.The new mitigation helps a bit, but not alot, especially compared with the plate fighters.

02-22-2005, 11:43 PM	#3
Khuds Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 79	I agree somewhat with you there. I've been tanking but taking more damage than prior.The video though was specific to some people claiming we can no longer solo green^^, which confused me quite a bit as I didn't have the problem.My AC is currently 4242, but at times it doesnt feel like it when tanking. Though, I do believe we _can_ still tank; it's just not the way it was prior to two patches back. Message Edited by Khudson on 02-22-2005 10:45 AM

02-22-2005, 11:51 PM	#4
kerra Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 249	I was in a 4 man group last night in CT and I was tanking lvl 45^^ mobs, I really see no problem with tanking other than the fact we still get huge spikes in damage. They said that the added mitigation would cure this and from what I have seen it does not however, I have seen a positive change in the class since it was added.

02-23-2005, 12:46 AM	#7
Zasarix Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: North Carolina Posts: 76	You human monks are so silly to watch fight.. pat pat Fist, Tail and Scales

02-23-2005, 12:52 AM	#8
kerra Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 249	Zasarix wrote: You human monks are so silly to watch fight.. pat pat Fist, Tail and Scales Role play much?:smileywink: Message Edited by kerra on 02-22-2005 11:53 AM

02-23-2005, 02:13 AM	#11
Aegi Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 61	Khudson wrote:Agree with you thereMaybe Im just more easy going than alot of people, because I still have alot of fun playing my monk. Message Edited by Khudson on 02-22-2005 10:53 AM Amen. I don't really get what all the complaining is about, I still have a great time, and don't really notice a difference in my abilities. __________________ 50 DE Monk. grobb.net

02-23-2005, 03:19 AM	#12
Terminus E Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 15	I am truely stunned by that. Not so much that you were able to do it, but that you took hardly any damage. Fighting any green^^ mob I am dead within seconds. What are you doing that I am not? I have good equipment, reasonable spells, and I have picked every racial trait/training to increas AGI that I can find. Seriously, I take more damage fighting a solo green than you take on green^^, but there was nothing that you did in that clip which I don't do. No special trick that I could see. Is there an explanation for this or is this game just bugged to death?

02-23-2005, 03:45 AM	#13
Khuds Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 79	See..That is what I am trying to figure out. I mean in that people are achieving results between two polar opposite extremes. I've been looking for some sort of common ground between those who don't have any problem and those that do. So far I really haven't turned up anything.Mostly, I've just kept my agi up to date as well as all of my equipment. As of current I have a 128 agility; which is down two points from when I swapped a piece of equipment a week or two ago. My total unbuffed ac calculates to 4202, which often seems to be even higher than some of the other warrior classes of equal level. But then again, I still do not have a clear understanding of exactly HOW the visible numeric actually calculates. Instead, I only end up knowing less than I did prior to each SOE post I read on the topic. I want everybody to love their monks! Why should I be the only one having fun? Seriously though; it does frustrate me that I can't see any clear reasoning behind it all. Even though I am not experiencing such difficulty, I still care enough to wonder why others are. Message Edited by Khudson on 02-22-2005 02:47 PM

02-23-2005, 03:46 AM	#14
Solaera_E Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 48	In my experience, when soloing a green ^^, make sure the green in question is 4-5 levels below you and it shouldn't be a problem (make sure to be in defensive stance, e.g. sweeping crane). This is especially true since they widenend the con range for green mobs - that is, as of a few weeks ago, mobs stay greener longer so that people who were having trouble can still xp off of them. Basically, for mobs 5 or more levels under you, it's like you're fighting something that more than a few weeks ago would have been grey, but now it's still green. In my experience, any ^^ mob within three levels will still own you (I'd like to see a video showing otherwise). It's all a matter of choosing your target wisely. Don't pick on spellcaster group mobs either... ouch.I've soloed some green ^^ mobs in TS, EL, Zek, RE, etc. If you want to do it to just prove you can, or to kill time it's cool, but it's really not worth it IMO if you are simply looking for solo xp. In my mind you're better off killing solo mobs that take much much less time to kill and just killing more of them. I have noticed that it's much faster to burn your power and take solo mobs out quick, regening afterwards, than to sit there auto-attacking a green ^^ for several minutes after you have run out of power as you wait for it to die (as can be seen in the video also).Just my opinion. __________________

02-23-2005, 03:50 AM	#15
Khuds Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 79	I used to solo the green^^ defiled knights in Stormhold WAAAY before the agi nerf or any of the other changes. I'd guess that now theyd be much harder for anybody else that would try the same under the same circumstances. Well, that is without taking into consideration the level range changes.Yes it does take forever for me to solo windfeather. And I agree on the fact that it's alot faster to go to Zek and just run around hunting grunts. But windfeather however was dropping rare resources quite ofte, along with earrings of shadow, storm shields, among tons of other odds and ends. It is nice at times to be able to just pick something up off a mob without worrying about who wants it.Well, maybe that is because I am too nice while grouping and pretty much decline EVERYTHING until somebody says no no you should have this. So then im bankrupt and have to go find some tedious mob that takes a century to kill so I can get it to drop a golden carrot or rare albino Pikachu... Or something. Anyhow, waaay off topic. I mean, yes I agree. It takes way too long to kill certain ^^ mobs and your better off finding areas that are plentiful in lower level range beasties wandering about. Message Edited by Khudson on 02-22-2005 02:56 PM

02-23-2005, 03:59 AM	#16
Mamasee Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 379	Everyone knows Windfeather is a undercon, or so will say the woe-is-monk crowd.

02-23-2005, 05:48 AM	#17
SomeDudeCRO Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 283	Here's some video of me tanking today in Perma http://www.videodesk.net/show.aspx?user_key=17788&file=Tank_Post3.wmv&send_link=1 __________________ Lavomir 80 Monk of Crushbone 80 Provisioner

02-23-2005, 04:42 PM	#18
Inv Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 62	I have noticed my miss rate to the front on skills is rather insulting even aginst green cons. What really is annoying it in grp fights skills tend to land almost all the time on me. Overall the "improvement" has made it better I can tank when people really are desperate and don't do to bad. I still get out classed rather easily by alot of plate tanks. The gap tho in tanking skill is narrower but would like to see it a bit smaller. Casters seem to flatten us alot more then a plate. I think the spell avoidance skill is broken or not working at all lol. But hopefully things will improve and not be forgotten as I fear they may be. Still testing some tanking skills and seeing how it goes the spike dmg is scary still. Also noticed I avoid about the same as a plate tank atm I have to be wrong lol still looking into that

02-23-2005, 07:18 PM	#19
Ala Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 185	I can't wait to get home to watch your video! My work computer stinks becuase I'm in sales and they give all the good stuff to production. There are some con green ^ ^ you can solo and some that you cannot. I think those that had problems found themselves toe-to-toe with a magic caster which can rip you to shreds. Monks can tank well given the right circumstanes. However, we are still not equal to plate class tanks, at least Guardians. __________________ -Retired from EQ2. Have fun everyone!

02-24-2005, 01:10 AM	#20
Abedni Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1	Alarr wrote: I can't wait to get home to watch your video! My work computer stinks becuase I'm in sales and they give all the good stuff to production. There are some con green ^ ^ you can solo and some that you cannot. I think those that had problems found themselves toe-to-toe with a magic caster which can rip you to shreds. Monks can tank well given the right circumstanes. However, we are still not equal to plate class tanks, at least Guardians. I find that to be very true. I can solo quite a few ++ green mobs, but others just destroy me. There is a mob in Vermin's Snye (can't remember his name, but he drops the Mace of Twilight). I soloed him the other day. He was Green ++ and had two green skellies with him. I managed to kill all three without a problem. But a few days earlier I wandered onto the undead island north of NQ and came across the named skellie there. In about 6 seconds he killed me with 3-4 spells at 200-300 damage each. He's green ++ too. __________________ ______________________________ "I am a ticking time bomb of fury."

02-24-2005, 01:38 AM	#21
Nefari Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 91	Personally, I have never bought into the agi nerf making us useless as tanks. I'm still a good tank, even on yellow/orange/red mobs. I get hit a little more, true, but I mitigate better. Ok not exactly what I used to do, but it's fine. I still get hit WAY WAY less than a plate tank.If I'm with a Templar or such, I will never be as good as a guardian. Oh well. The best wpns in the game, they won't put out the dmg I do. BUT throw me a Ward healer, and I'm pretty close to a Guard/Templar duo. VERY close.Guardians are fantastic meat shields, we are fantastic in the right situation (namely ward healers). I still love my Monk.Oh and I still go full-bore for Agi. To me the nerf did very, very little.Nefalu41st Monk33rd Provisionerwww.savagehonour.comAntonia Bayle

02-24-2005, 10:57 PM	#22
himesan Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 1	Nice video, but i got a question about the fighting animation. Is it because you used 2 cestis or do you have to put a command to switch it to that fighting stance. I really love that monk stance since i saw a monk use it in the trailer. So can you tell me how to get that fighting animation? Much thanks.

02-24-2005, 11:29 PM	#23
xrippe Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 341	Cant change fight styles unfortunatly. Its just looks different depending on the weapons forms you use.

02-25-2005, 11:08 PM	#24
Khuds Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 79	In that Im actually using a pair of pristine etched fist wraps.The problem is that the pristine etched are bugged right now and they are using the forged nuckle models. It's very annoying They are SUPPOSED to look just like fists and nothing more. The odd thing is the levels below pristine do look like fists, yet pristine do not.