Heads up: shields going away

bonesbro · 12-14-2004, 01:52 PM

I just bought a shield for 3.5 gold, hope I can resell it for that much:Moorgard wrote:One change that will be coming for brawlers, monks, and bruisers in this Wednesday's update is that they will no longer be able to equip shields. Why? Because we're increasing their deflection skill to give them the equivalent of always having a shield equipped. This allows these classes to gain the benefits of blocking additional attacks while retaining their ability to use two-handed or dual-wield weapons.

Kwonryu_DragonFi · 12-14-2004, 04:13 PM

Perfect.

The Shield and fist style had to go! SMILEY

Looked ridiculous.

Auhal · 12-14-2004, 04:32 PM

Glad I held off on buying one then. I like the sound of our blocking techniques being upped.

Gamepsychot · 12-14-2004, 04:54 PM

cheers to them. hope this doesn't make us too powerful. :smileytongue:

Message Edited by Gamepsychotic on 12-14-2004 03:54 AM

ReynardTheFox · 12-14-2004, 05:42 PM

Gamepsychotic wrote:

cheers to them. hope this doesn't make us too powerful. :smileytongue:

Message Edited by Gamepsychotic on 12-14-2004 03:54 AM

ROFL!!

Ala · 12-14-2004, 05:52 PM

bonesbro wrote:
I just bought a shield for 3.5 gold, hope I can resell it for that much:

Moorgard wrote:
One change that will be coming for brawlers, monks, and bruisers in this Wednesday's update is that they will no longer be able to equip shields. Why? Because we're increasing their deflection skill to give them the equivalent of always having a shield equipped. This allows these classes to gain the benefits of blocking additional attacks while retaining their ability to use two-handed or dual-wield weapons.

I really appreciate your post I was browsing for a shield myself. Sorry you just spent your coin but you did help others who were in the market!

iph · 12-14-2004, 08:08 PM

Doh, i just spent 2g on a shield and a new 1h weapon... Oh well, maybe i can sell them back on the market.

shaolen · 12-14-2004, 08:20 PM

Sorrry about you guys that bought the shields, hopefully you can get them sold. I am glad they are finally getting the deflection straightened out.

Norivar · 12-14-2004, 10:25 PM

Whew! Glad I checked the forums today. I was debating whether or not to purchase a shield and test this out, but decided to check for feedback from others. Thanks much for saving me more coin. :smileywink:

psubull · 12-15-2004, 09:34 AM

Laff @ shields. But seriously, deflection going up will end the whole "Bruisers and Monks can't tank" discussion. For people who don't believe it, shove your old shield down their throats

Sant · 12-15-2004, 09:36 AM

Best news I have heard all week about monks.

I never thought a monk with a shield was anything but a cheese fix anyway.

Waks · 12-15-2004, 01:18 PM

Good, I am personally sick of seeing Grp needs tank 20'ish lvl and get turned down, or a paladin telling me that "Monks cant hold aggro and require far to many heals to ever tank properly" (this was about half an hour before I ended up tanking giants in TS) We could use a few more tweaks on the defensive side but its mainly the perception of other players that needs work.

netswine · 12-15-2004, 03:11 PM

Wakson wrote:
Good, I am personally sick of seeing Grp needs tank 20'ish lvl and get turned down, or a paladin telling me that "Monks cant hold aggro and require far to many heals to ever tank properly" (this was about half an hour before I ended up tanking giants in TS) We could use a few more tweaks on the defensive side but its mainly the perception of other players that needs work.

That just made me laugh. A paladin saying monks cant hold aggro.

95% of the time, I can take aggro from a paladin without taunting once.

Ala · 12-15-2004, 07:35 PM

I usually don't advertise as a tank, rather DPS and pitch FD, staggering stance to assist tanka and keep guard of the healer if they get agroed. I'm looking forward to this upgrade and testing it out! I don't have all the AQ armor yet but I've spent TONS on jewelry upgrading my stats.

This change should help a lot!

buggz620 · 12-15-2004, 08:10 PM

What about the deflection bonus we are already missing. While i like the idea of more deflection to do away with shields. I hope they are going to up it more then the bonus we are already suppose to have.If they dont and just give us our original bonus then I just see it as taking shields away.Or have they already fixed the bonus part?Mine shows i think 149/149 at lvl 29.

iNiQUitY- · 12-15-2004, 09:24 PM

http://www.brawlers-pit.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=41&Itemid=2Quote from the interview with Moorgard----------------------------------------"Zadkiel: When we reach 20, our deflection skill raises by 40 points, but the cap value doesn't raise with it. For most monks this results in deflection skill being listed at 139/100 and no skill gain can be achieved until level 28 when the cap reaches 140. Is this intentional? Are we getting the effect of those extra skill points while they are higher than the cap?Moorgard: It's a bug that ends up benefiting monks and bruisers. We'll be fixing it, but for now it provides additional deflection from levels 20 to 28. Enjoy it!"

Musashi- · 12-16-2004, 06:55 PM

Problem is this.The other Figher Bases are complaining that Monks can Tank as well as they do and DO more DPS. I saw the shield as an OUT for monks. "Ya we only tank as good as a guardian when we use a shield" If we tank as good as guardians w/o a shield and do good DPS why would anyone play a guardian? I see this leading up to the BIG EQ1 Nerf of monks that made us into the crappy Monk that you see in EQ1 right now, a shell of its former self.

Wolver · 12-16-2004, 08:14 PM

Did this change go live yet? My brawler still has buckler and round shield listed in his skill list.

Dovifat · 12-16-2004, 08:31 PM

Musashi- wrote:Problem is this.The other Figher Bases are complaining that Monks can Tank as well as they do and DO more DPS. I saw the shield as an OUT for monks. "Ya we only tank as good as a guardian when we use a shield" If we tank as good as guardians w/o a shield and do good DPS why would anyone play a guardian? I see this leading up to the BIG EQ1 Nerf of monks that made us into the crappy Monk that you see in EQ1 right now, a shell of its former self.

Other tank classes, especially some of the Guardians coming from the EQ1 warrior, will always whine. Many just cant live with not being the only viable tank.As to the matter at hand - i highly doubt SOE intends Brawlers to be as strong defensively as Guardians are. If they would, there would be indeed a problem. What i could imagine however, would be tanking about on par with Berserkers. Between teh both offensive tanks would be a distinction somewhat similar to Wizard vs. Scouts then - Brawlers better suited for single targets, Berserkers better for mob groups. There - everyone has his role and could be happy - if there wasnt the grass is greener syndrome.

Ala · 12-17-2004, 12:01 AM

I think the change happens with teh major update which is a few days behind. Scheduled push to test server is today and scheduled to hit live servers between Friday and early next week.

Cora · 12-17-2004, 12:50 AM

That's what you get for giving in to satan and buying a shield. What were you thinking?

Hecklerko · 12-17-2004, 08:26 PM

Any word on when this might actually go in? Still proudly have my shield. Not sure why some think it's stupid or silly. If I choose to fight bare-handed what's silly about adding 37 AC and a bunch of stats at the same time. That's what this change will do, subtract nice stats and AC. Deflection is nice but that's all you get from it. Laugh all you want, they can have my shield when they pry it from my cold dead fingers.

Bodhidar · 12-17-2004, 08:27 PM

Hecklerkoch wrote:
Any word on when this might actually go in? Still proudly have my shield. Not sure why some think it's stupid or silly. If I choose to fight bare-handed what's silly about adding 37 AC and a bunch of stats at the same time. That's what this change will do, subtract nice stats and AC. Deflection is nice but that's all you get from it. Laugh all you want, they can have my shield when they pry it from my cold dead fingers.

Next week sometime. The patch just went to the test server today.

RadricTyc · 12-17-2004, 08:39 PM

Hecklerkoch wrote:

Any word on when this might actually go in? Still proudly have my shield. Not sure why some think it's stupid or silly. If I choose to fight bare-handed what's silly about adding 37 AC and a bunch of stats at the same time. That's what this change will do, subtract nice stats and AC. Deflection is nice but that's all you get from it. Laugh all you want, they can have my shield when they pry it from my cold dead fingers.

If it's subtracting stats that you are worried about, then dual wield, preferably some firwood batons or some playermade fist wraps or cestus. You aren't losing AC, the mitigation of Deflection is being made comparable to the mitigation of a round shield.

I had no problem with using a round shield, although mine was more like 100 AC, but I feel that the extra deflection PLUS the extra attacking power of a dual wield or staff is going to be MUCH better for monks than the fists + shield combo.

TheRealDude · 12-17-2004, 11:59 PM

netswine wrote:
Wakson wrote:Good, I am personally sick of seeing Grp needs tank 20'ish lvl and get turned down, or a paladin telling me that "Monks cant hold aggro and require far to many heals to ever tank properly" (this was about half an hour before I ended up tanking giants in TS) We could use a few more tweaks on the defensive side but its mainly the perception of other players that needs work.
That just made me laugh. A paladin saying monks cant hold aggro.
95% of the time, I can take aggro from a paladin without taunting once.

heh i pulled aggro from a warrior today ...... and i didnt taunt once and he through all his taunts out right before i pulled aggro too =P and i acctualy took less damage than him ...... so i think maybe they are still thinking monk as in EQ1 monk not EQ2 =P(oh and i had a sheild on and all yellow armor if anyone wants to know =P)and my EQ1 monk could acctualy tank better than some other tanks as well ... so maybe .... well .... i dont know what they are thinking

Message Edited by TheRealDude on 12-17-2004 11:02 AM

12-14-2004, 01:52 PM	#1
bonesbro Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 651	I just bought a shield for 3.5 gold, hope I can resell it for that much:Moorgard wrote:One change that will be coming for brawlers, monks, and bruisers in this Wednesday's update is that they will no longer be able to equip shields. Why? Because we're increasing their deflection skill to give them the equivalent of always having a shield equipped. This allows these classes to gain the benefits of blocking additional attacks while retaining their ability to use two-handed or dual-wield weapons. __________________ Legond of Najena, Monk Ancient.

12-14-2004, 04:13 PM	#2
Kwonryu_DragonFi Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 183	Perfect. The Shield and fist style had to go! Looked ridiculous.

12-14-2004, 04:32 PM	#3
Auhal Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 69	Glad I held off on buying one then. I like the sound of our blocking techniques being upped. __________________ Carrod, Human Monk, Antonia Bayle Herrick - Ratonga Bard, Antonia Bayle

12-14-2004, 05:42 PM	#5
ReynardTheFox Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 50	Gamepsychotic wrote: cheers to them. hope this doesn't make us too powerful. :smileytongue: Message Edited by Gamepsychotic on 12-14-2004 03:54 AM ROFL!!

12-14-2004, 05:52 PM	#6
Ala Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 185	bonesbro wrote: I just bought a shield for 3.5 gold, hope I can resell it for that much: Moorgard wrote: One change that will be coming for brawlers, monks, and bruisers in this Wednesday's update is that they will no longer be able to equip shields. Why? Because we're increasing their deflection skill to give them the equivalent of always having a shield equipped. This allows these classes to gain the benefits of blocking additional attacks while retaining their ability to use two-handed or dual-wield weapons. I really appreciate your post I was browsing for a shield myself. Sorry you just spent your coin but you did help others who were in the market! __________________ -Retired from EQ2. Have fun everyone!

12-14-2004, 04:54 PM	#4
Gamepsychot Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 26	cheers to them. hope this doesn't make us too powerful. :smileytongue: Message Edited by Gamepsychotic on 12-14-2004 03:54 AM

12-14-2004, 08:08 PM	#7
iph General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 25	Doh, i just spent 2g on a shield and a new 1h weapon... Oh well, maybe i can sell them back on the market.

12-14-2004, 08:20 PM	#8
shaolen Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 129	Sorrry about you guys that bought the shields, hopefully you can get them sold. I am glad they are finally getting the deflection straightened out. __________________

12-14-2004, 10:25 PM	#9
Norivar Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 18	Whew! Glad I checked the forums today. I was debating whether or not to purchase a shield and test this out, but decided to check for feedback from others. Thanks much for saving me more coin. :smileywink:

12-15-2004, 09:34 AM	#10
psubull General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 370	Laff @ shields. But seriously, deflection going up will end the whole "Bruisers and Monks can't tank" discussion. For people who don't believe it, shove your old shield down their throats __________________

12-15-2004, 09:36 AM	#11
Sant Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 174	Best news I have heard all week about monks. I never thought a monk with a shield was anything but a cheese fix anyway.

12-15-2004, 01:18 PM	#12
Waks Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1	Good, I am personally sick of seeing Grp needs tank 20'ish lvl and get turned down, or a paladin telling me that "Monks cant hold aggro and require far to many heals to ever tank properly" (this was about half an hour before I ended up tanking giants in TS) We could use a few more tweaks on the defensive side but its mainly the perception of other players that needs work.

12-15-2004, 03:11 PM	#13
netswine Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 61	Wakson wrote: Good, I am personally sick of seeing Grp needs tank 20'ish lvl and get turned down, or a paladin telling me that "Monks cant hold aggro and require far to many heals to ever tank properly" (this was about half an hour before I ended up tanking giants in TS) We could use a few more tweaks on the defensive side but its mainly the perception of other players that needs work. That just made me laugh. A paladin saying monks cant hold aggro. 95% of the time, I can take aggro from a paladin without taunting once. __________________ ------ There's no place I can be Since I found Serenity But you can't take the sky from me...

12-15-2004, 07:35 PM	#14
Ala Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 185	I usually don't advertise as a tank, rather DPS and pitch FD, staggering stance to assist tanka and keep guard of the healer if they get agroed. I'm looking forward to this upgrade and testing it out! I don't have all the AQ armor yet but I've spent TONS on jewelry upgrading my stats. This change should help a lot! __________________ -Retired from EQ2. Have fun everyone!

12-15-2004, 08:10 PM	#15
buggz620 Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 31	What about the deflection bonus we are already missing. While i like the idea of more deflection to do away with shields. I hope they are going to up it more then the bonus we are already suppose to have.If they dont and just give us our original bonus then I just see it as taking shields away.Or have they already fixed the bonus part?Mine shows i think 149/149 at lvl 29.

12-15-2004, 09:24 PM	#16
iNiQUitY- Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 50	http://www.brawlers-pit.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=41&Itemid=2Quote from the interview with Moorgard----------------------------------------"Zadkiel: When we reach 20, our deflection skill raises by 40 points, but the cap value doesn't raise with it. For most monks this results in deflection skill being listed at 139/100 and no skill gain can be achieved until level 28 when the cap reaches 140. Is this intentional? Are we getting the effect of those extra skill points while they are higher than the cap?Moorgard: It's a bug that ends up benefiting monks and bruisers. We'll be fixing it, but for now it provides additional deflection from levels 20 to 28. Enjoy it!"

12-16-2004, 06:55 PM	#17
Musashi- Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 34	Problem is this.The other Figher Bases are complaining that Monks can Tank as well as they do and DO more DPS. I saw the shield as an OUT for monks. "Ya we only tank as good as a guardian when we use a shield" If we tank as good as guardians w/o a shield and do good DPS why would anyone play a guardian? I see this leading up to the BIG EQ1 Nerf of monks that made us into the crappy Monk that you see in EQ1 right now, a shell of its former self. __________________

12-16-2004, 08:14 PM	#18
Wolver General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 13	Did this change go live yet? My brawler still has buckler and round shield listed in his skill list.

12-16-2004, 08:31 PM	#19
Dovifat Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 171	Musashi- wrote:Problem is this.The other Figher Bases are complaining that Monks can Tank as well as they do and DO more DPS. I saw the shield as an OUT for monks. "Ya we only tank as good as a guardian when we use a shield" If we tank as good as guardians w/o a shield and do good DPS why would anyone play a guardian? I see this leading up to the BIG EQ1 Nerf of monks that made us into the crappy Monk that you see in EQ1 right now, a shell of its former self. Other tank classes, especially some of the Guardians coming from the EQ1 warrior, will always whine. Many just cant live with not being the only viable tank.As to the matter at hand - i highly doubt SOE intends Brawlers to be as strong defensively as Guardians are. If they would, there would be indeed a problem. What i could imagine however, would be tanking about on par with Berserkers. Between teh both offensive tanks would be a distinction somewhat similar to Wizard vs. Scouts then - Brawlers better suited for single targets, Berserkers better for mob groups. There - everyone has his role and could be happy - if there wasnt the grass is greener syndrome.

12-17-2004, 12:01 AM	#20
Ala Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 185	I think the change happens with teh major update which is a few days behind. Scheduled push to test server is today and scheduled to hit live servers between Friday and early next week. __________________ -Retired from EQ2. Have fun everyone!

12-17-2004, 12:50 AM	#21
Cora Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 244	That's what you get for giving in to satan and buying a shield. What were you thinking?

12-17-2004, 08:26 PM	#22
Hecklerko Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 53	Any word on when this might actually go in? Still proudly have my shield. Not sure why some think it's stupid or silly. If I choose to fight bare-handed what's silly about adding 37 AC and a bunch of stats at the same time. That's what this change will do, subtract nice stats and AC. Deflection is nice but that's all you get from it. Laugh all you want, they can have my shield when they pry it from my cold dead fingers.

12-17-2004, 08:27 PM	#23
Bodhidar Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 15	Hecklerkoch wrote: Any word on when this might actually go in? Still proudly have my shield. Not sure why some think it's stupid or silly. If I choose to fight bare-handed what's silly about adding 37 AC and a bunch of stats at the same time. That's what this change will do, subtract nice stats and AC. Deflection is nice but that's all you get from it. Laugh all you want, they can have my shield when they pry it from my cold dead fingers. Next week sometime. The patch just went to the test server today.

12-17-2004, 08:39 PM	#24
RadricTyc Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 362	Hecklerkoch wrote: Any word on when this might actually go in? Still proudly have my shield. Not sure why some think it's stupid or silly. If I choose to fight bare-handed what's silly about adding 37 AC and a bunch of stats at the same time. That's what this change will do, subtract nice stats and AC. Deflection is nice but that's all you get from it. Laugh all you want, they can have my shield when they pry it from my cold dead fingers. If it's subtracting stats that you are worried about, then dual wield, preferably some firwood batons or some playermade fist wraps or cestus. You aren't losing AC, the mitigation of Deflection is being made comparable to the mitigation of a round shield. I had no problem with using a round shield, although mine was more like 100 AC, but I feel that the extra deflection PLUS the extra attacking power of a dual wield or staff is going to be MUCH better for monks than the fists + shield combo.

12-17-2004, 11:59 PM	#25
TheRealDude Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 180	netswine wrote: Wakson wrote:Good, I am personally sick of seeing Grp needs tank 20'ish lvl and get turned down, or a paladin telling me that "Monks cant hold aggro and require far to many heals to ever tank properly" (this was about half an hour before I ended up tanking giants in TS) We could use a few more tweaks on the defensive side but its mainly the perception of other players that needs work. That just made me laugh. A paladin saying monks cant hold aggro. 95% of the time, I can take aggro from a paladin without taunting once. heh i pulled aggro from a warrior today ...... and i didnt taunt once and he through all his taunts out right before i pulled aggro too =P and i acctualy took less damage than him ...... so i think maybe they are still thinking monk as in EQ1 monk not EQ2 =P(oh and i had a sheild on and all yellow armor if anyone wants to know =P)and my EQ1 monk could acctualy tank better than some other tanks as well ... so maybe .... well .... i dont know what they are thinking Message Edited by TheRealDude on 12-17-2004 11:02 AM