Vision of madness changed Again, and again and again....

Khal · 09-09-2005, 03:34 AM

Vision of madness Version 4, berserker level 55

Seems like a decent idea for a spell, but I liked version 3 better. And, as you can see from my SS above, it is not currently working. Its keeping u alive, but with stats like u are dead and the revive window is up.

Message Edited by Khalad on 09-08-2005 04:51 PM

Khal · 09-09-2005, 03:42 AM

You can also see how 2 level 50 green con solo mobs almost never miss a level 60 in full fabled armor with the recent changes to avoidence.

Message Edited by Khalad on 09-08-2005 05:06 PM

tnefoo · 09-09-2005, 04:09 AM

Woohoo! We are now gods and can resurrect ourselves from the dead!

Splinte · 09-09-2005, 04:12 AM

/sigh Berzerkers looked SOOO much fun like two weeks ago. Now its just looking so freaking hard and wierd.

Zerk.

Azr · 09-09-2005, 05:04 AM

Bah, they shoulda just kept it like it started off, looks like junk now. The new combat changes just make zerks look worse and worse. Ahh well, 5 days till public beta.

Khal · 09-09-2005, 05:12 AM

Once its workiong right, its def not junk. If this keeps you alive with buffs up, that could be huge. The spell is a permanant type spell, you cast it and its up, no timer. Once it triggers to save you, then the 15 min recast comes into play.

Chog · 09-09-2005, 07:34 AM

And the best part is, the spell will not kill you afterwards :smileyvery-happy:

Much better then the 1st adventure pack skill...

Speaking of that skill (forget name at work).

Wonder if they can be used back to back or if they share the same timer.

Khal · 09-10-2005, 06:21 AM

Ok, as of friday the 9th, this spell is working correctly, here is what it does.

You cast the buff, it does not have a timer . When you die with it up and your berserked (not too hard, spec when you are getting hit enough to die) , it keeps you alive. It healed me for 1025, then I had 6 ticks of regen for 195 each. All my buffs stayed up, no xp dept. After this happens, it is 15 minutes before you can recast it.

I am guessing that upgrades of this spell will heal even more hp.

Def does not seem like a bad spell. I might have liked the damage taken to power conversion spell better, but this isn't bad at all either. It also seems to fit in to what a berserker is, a warrior that just wont go down.

Message Edited by Khalad on 09-09-2005 07:22 PM

Ep · 09-10-2005, 06:34 AM

thats like casting a self buff divine intervention that will go off 95% of the time(depending on berserk), pretty nice for epic mob burst damage on you.

Khal · 09-10-2005, 06:58 AM

In all the times I have tested it, even when it was broken, i have always happened to be berserk when the time came, so ya it has a pretty high chance.

Khal · 09-10-2005, 05:20 PM

Well, VOM is now on a 30 minute recast timer. And instead of healing you when it brings you back, it gives u a regen, 1% per tick when not berserked, 4% when berserked. Which is 48 and 195 respectivly. I accidently toggled this spell off and it now starts the recast timer, so I cant even try it to test it. Once I do, im gonna bug report it, the spell is worthless in its current form imo, all it does is give you an extra second of life. The recast timer i can deal with, but the recast timer should not reset when you toggle the spell on and off, because you are not even using the spell and the recast timer starts.

Message Edited by Khalad on 09-10-2005 06:11 PM

kono · 09-10-2005, 08:39 PM

Typo above, it's actually on a 30 minute recast. And yes, the amount of healing it does at apprentice I is a little silly. Maybe at Adept III+ it's ok?

najena.konk

Azr · 09-11-2005, 11:37 AM

Im still wishing they change it back to original form, use to be good. Welcome to public beta in a few days ;/

Donners · 09-11-2005, 03:23 PM

I would also like the DoT / DPS + Haste buff most ...but ghetto DI would also work :smileysad:

XensosKinein · 09-13-2005, 01:20 AM

I've got to say, fellow zerkers, I'm am getting less and less enthused with what I am seeing. Seems like Sony gave everyone some good changes when they first started putting out DoF on Beta and Test, and then milked away the bennies little by little. I was getting excited about some of the changes when Khalad first started posting screenshots, but as we get closer to D Day, I'm realizing that we are going to start the first day at our new school gimped and laughed at.

I was really looking forward to combat changes, but as I read the test notes, I realize that zerkers have had something taken away nearly ever day. What I think is even more interesting is that if you read the Sep 11th update from test, Guards got x spell has had it's damaged increased like 5 times in a row. I'm just flat out curious now, Are we going to be below guards in DPS? All of this is really starting to bug me. I am going to try and keep an open mind about it and I will play the new game (because absolutely nothing resembles the EQ2 I started playing back in November). However, I fully intentend to take an active role in /bugging, /petitioning, / feedbacking for everything they ph*cked up. I urge everyone else to do the same. I think it is absolute crap for SOE to realease the NDA and then nerf the crap out of every single spell on the screenshots. (except Rampage). Next they are going to change the class name from 'Berserker' to 'Smurfette'

Tudd · 09-13-2005, 11:04 AM

XensosKinein wrote:

I've got to say, fellow zerkers, I'm am getting less and less enthused with what I am seeing. Seems like Sony gave everyone some good changes when they first started putting out DoF on Beta and Test, and then milked away the bennies little by little. I was getting excited about some of the changes when Khalad first started posting screenshots, but as we get closer to D Day, I'm realizing that we are going to start the first day at our new school gimped and laughed at.

I was really looking forward to combat changes, but as I read the test notes, I realize that zerkers have had something taken away nearly ever day. What I think is even more interesting is that if you read the Sep 11th update from test, Guards got x spell has had it's damaged increased like 5 times in a row. I'm just flat out curious now, Are we going to be below guards in DPS? All of this is really starting to bug me. I am going to try and keep an open mind about it and I will play the new game (because absolutely nothing resembles the EQ2 I started playing back in November). However, I fully intentend to take an active role in /bugging, /petitioning, / feedbacking for everything they ph*cked up. I urge everyone else to do the same. I think it is absolute crap for SOE to realease the NDA and then nerf the crap out of every single spell on the screenshots. (except Rampage). Next they are going to change the class name from 'Berserker' to 'Smurfette'

I think you'll be pleasantly suprised at what we got, even with some things being nerfed down. On this particular CA, I agree also that I wish it would have stayed in it's original form. But then, it's original form was quite powerful, perhaps too much so. I'd have to agree that it got nerfed down far too much (to the point of insignificance now, IMO), that's something we'll just have to work on getting changed. Given the nature of our CA's, I highly doubt guards will outdamage us. Especially while tanking. Our reactives are pretty hard hitting, and our AE's are quite impressive. Add in our Berserks and Strength buffs, and we'll probably still be a decent bit ahead of them even when not tanking.

XensosKinein · 09-13-2005, 11:21 AM

Aye, I agree that the Aoe's and reactives are nice, but only in a group or solo situation. The problem with applying our DPS through AoE's is that , in a raid situation, Aoe's are a pbad idea (Breaking Mez, or gaining unwanted aggro from adds). Although our zerks now buff DPS as well, I don't think it will make up for the hit we've taken to our hastes, especially when you take into consideration the fact that haste items and spells no longer stack. I like the AGI buffs you get with Vehemence, however, by buffing AGI, you are more likely to avoid an attack, thus losing the chance to proc a reactive. The reactives would be nice, if our Mitigation went up a bit, but it seems to be the contrary, I'm losing about 400 mitigation from my accessories, and as I understand it, the armor is being bumped down too. The one glimmering light that I do see is that a zerker is going to be a great buff for a DPS group of scouts in a raid with the str buff and group zerk, I think that will be a somewhat entertaining role to play. Short of that, I see us as the guild heritage guide, running around with a single group playing a tank/group DPS role. Once again, this is all speculation, but the changes just don't seem too favorable, we have gained some nice CA's but I feel the cost has been too high. I really liked playing my zerker as he is. The balance with the guards seemed perfect witha zerker as an MA or DPS buff. To me it seems like the best parts of each world were taken away.

I suppose, as I stated in my first post, I am more disgruntled, not by the changes, but by the changes to the changes.... especially this last one for Vision of Madness. I mean come on! Well the update is out tomorrow and there's not much to do about it now but wait for LU#14 which I hope is able to round out the damage done by these changes. One thing for sure, I would really like to see SOE find that balance they are always talking about and then leave the game the hell alone. I get sick of fighting and upgrading, only to have the upgrades I've worked so hard for (i.e. Masters, Adept 3's, MONFREAKINGSOON!) made obsolete by their tinkering. I'm really [Removed for Content] off that My Monsoon is worthless now.

Tudd · 09-13-2005, 02:32 PM

MItigation was bumped down to avoid hitting the cap too easily. The xxx Defense line not only does damage, but it also procs a taunt. So in any situation where mobs are hitting you, you are gaining hate on them. If mobs are mezzed or aren't hitting you, then your not gaining additional aggro from them. The only problem I see with reactives is that, because they are an additional attack now rather than direct damage, they can be riposted. But as Khalad pointed out, it being an additional attack also adds the benefit of you being able to proc off from that attack. So I'd say that our reactives are probably a great, if not invaluable, tool during raids. Like anything, a tool can be good or bad depending on the situation. Our AoE's have to be applied intelligently. Our AoE's and reactives are meant to take up some of the hit we took for losing our haste. Our increased tanking ability is meant to switch us away from being a DPS machine. So in regard to being MA or DPS buff, we still can fill both of those roles. In addition, we are now much more viable as MT's on raids also. The only role we won't excel at anymore is doing DPS in and of itself. If we aren't tanking, then our DPS will be limited.

Fundi · 09-13-2005, 09:08 PM

I personally loved the VoM spell the way it was when the post was first made. Now I may still love it, but that love depends on one thing. If the spell goes off when we die, will we still have aggro when we come back to life. If we do, then it's crap because you're going to go right back down as soon as you're hit by the most minute attack. If aggro leaves once we die, which I'd guess that it does, then this spell is still great because healers will have time to heal us before we grab aggro again. This spell makes the berserker superior to the current (before DoF) guardian as a raid MT. If the guardian dies, the raid is pretty much done because it takes so long to rez and heal, PLUS all his buffs are gone. The berserker would get an instant rez and keep all his buffs, wait for a heal, then grab aggro again and keep tanking like nothing happened. Fundinn gives this his seal of approval.

Khal · 09-13-2005, 09:31 PM

You never die with the spell, you only loose conciousness, so you keep agrp. Healer has to be fast in order to keep you up after.

Fundi · 09-13-2005, 09:34 PM

Fundinn rescinds his stamp of approval. Nice effort Sony, try again next time.... OR just heal us for 22% as it was originally. That isn't asking much!

Khal · 09-13-2005, 09:37 PM

10% would be enough at least, a 195 heal at level 60 berserked and a 49 heal not berserked is not gonna help much. I begged on the beta boards about this but nothing was changed.

Donners · 09-13-2005, 11:18 PM

Hahaha it heals us for 49 when we go unconscious? Sony sorry but YOU SUCK :smileyvery-happy:

kono · 09-14-2005, 12:12 AM

Khalad wrote:
10% would be enough at least, a 195 heal at level 60 berserked and a 49 heal not berserked is not gonna help much. I begged on the beta boards about this but nothing was changed.

All it seems to be good for is a "Get Out of AE Free" card, which can be nice, but not on a 30 minute timer.

najena.konk

Khal · 09-14-2005, 06:25 AM

"Hahaha it heals us for 49 when we go unconscious? Sony sorry but YOU SUCK "

Thats when your not berserked. When you are getting hit enough to die, you will usually be berserk. Still, 195 is low.

09-09-2005, 04:09 AM	#3
tnefoo Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 57	Woohoo! We are now gods and can resurrect ourselves from the dead! __________________ Gatts L53 Berserker Enmity Najena

09-09-2005, 07:34 AM	#7
Chog General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 475	And the best part is, the spell will not kill you afterwards :smileyvery-happy: Much better then the 1st adventure pack skill... Speaking of that skill (forget name at work). Wonder if they can be used back to back or if they share the same timer. __________________ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- "Your food stamps will be stopped effective March 1992 because we received notice that you passed away. May God bless you. You may reapply if there is a change in your circumstances."--Department of Social Services, Greenville, South Carolina

09-10-2005, 06:34 AM	#9
Ep General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 435	thats like casting a self buff divine intervention that will go off 95% of the time(depending on berserk), pretty nice for epic mob burst damage on you. __________________ --- Sir Auron

09-13-2005, 11:04 AM	#16
Tudd Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 187	XensosKinein wrote: I've got to say, fellow zerkers, I'm am getting less and less enthused with what I am seeing. Seems like Sony gave everyone some good changes when they first started putting out DoF on Beta and Test, and then milked away the bennies little by little. I was getting excited about some of the changes when Khalad first started posting screenshots, but as we get closer to D Day, I'm realizing that we are going to start the first day at our new school gimped and laughed at. I was really looking forward to combat changes, but as I read the test notes, I realize that zerkers have had something taken away nearly ever day. What I think is even more interesting is that if you read the Sep 11th update from test, Guards got x spell has had it's damaged increased like 5 times in a row. I'm just flat out curious now, Are we going to be below guards in DPS? All of this is really starting to bug me. I am going to try and keep an open mind about it and I will play the new game (because absolutely nothing resembles the EQ2 I started playing back in November). However, I fully intentend to take an active role in /bugging, /petitioning, / feedbacking for everything they ph*cked up. I urge everyone else to do the same. I think it is absolute crap for SOE to realease the NDA and then nerf the crap out of every single spell on the screenshots. (except Rampage). Next they are going to change the class name from 'Berserker' to 'Smurfette' I think you'll be pleasantly suprised at what we got, even with some things being nerfed down. On this particular CA, I agree also that I wish it would have stayed in it's original form. But then, it's original form was quite powerful, perhaps too much so. I'd have to agree that it got nerfed down far too much (to the point of insignificance now, IMO), that's something we'll just have to work on getting changed. Given the nature of our CA's, I highly doubt guards will outdamage us. Especially while tanking. Our reactives are pretty hard hitting, and our AE's are quite impressive. Add in our Berserks and Strength buffs, and we'll probably still be a decent bit ahead of them even when not tanking.

09-13-2005, 09:08 PM	#19
Fundi General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 67	I personally loved the VoM spell the way it was when the post was first made. Now I may still love it, but that love depends on one thing. If the spell goes off when we die, will we still have aggro when we come back to life. If we do, then it's crap because you're going to go right back down as soon as you're hit by the most minute attack. If aggro leaves once we die, which I'd guess that it does, then this spell is still great because healers will have time to heal us before we grab aggro again. This spell makes the berserker superior to the current (before DoF) guardian as a raid MT. If the guardian dies, the raid is pretty much done because it takes so long to rez and heal, PLUS all his buffs are gone. The berserker would get an instant rez and keep all his buffs, wait for a heal, then grab aggro again and keep tanking like nothing happened. Fundinn gives this his seal of approval. __________________ Fundinn - Befallen

09-09-2005, 03:34 AM	#1
Khal Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 649	Vision of madness Version 4, berserker level 55 Seems like a decent idea for a spell, but I liked version 3 better. And, as you can see from my SS above, it is not currently working. Its keeping u alive, but with stats like u are dead and the revive window is up. Message Edited by Khalad on 09-08-2005 04:51 PM

09-09-2005, 03:42 AM	#2
Khal Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 649	You can also see how 2 level 50 green con solo mobs almost never miss a level 60 in full fabled armor with the recent changes to avoidence. Message Edited by Khalad on 09-08-2005 05:06 PM

09-09-2005, 04:12 AM	#4
Splinte Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 58	/sigh Berzerkers looked SOOO much fun like two weeks ago. Now its just looking so freaking hard and wierd. Zerk.

09-09-2005, 05:04 AM	#5
Azr Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 26	Bah, they shoulda just kept it like it started off, looks like junk now. The new combat changes just make zerks look worse and worse. Ahh well, 5 days till public beta.

09-09-2005, 05:12 AM	#6
Khal Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 649	Once its workiong right, its def not junk. If this keeps you alive with buffs up, that could be huge. The spell is a permanant type spell, you cast it and its up, no timer. Once it triggers to save you, then the 15 min recast comes into play.

09-10-2005, 06:21 AM	#8
Khal Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 649	Ok, as of friday the 9th, this spell is working correctly, here is what it does. You cast the buff, it does not have a timer . When you die with it up and your berserked (not too hard, spec when you are getting hit enough to die) , it keeps you alive. It healed me for 1025, then I had 6 ticks of regen for 195 each. All my buffs stayed up, no xp dept. After this happens, it is 15 minutes before you can recast it. I am guessing that upgrades of this spell will heal even more hp. Def does not seem like a bad spell. I might have liked the damage taken to power conversion spell better, but this isn't bad at all either. It also seems to fit in to what a berserker is, a warrior that just wont go down. Message Edited by Khalad on 09-09-2005 07:22 PM

09-10-2005, 06:58 AM	#10
Khal Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 649	In all the times I have tested it, even when it was broken, i have always happened to be berserk when the time came, so ya it has a pretty high chance.

09-10-2005, 05:20 PM	#11
Khal Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 649	Well, VOM is now on a 30 minute recast timer. And instead of healing you when it brings you back, it gives u a regen, 1% per tick when not berserked, 4% when berserked. Which is 48 and 195 respectivly. I accidently toggled this spell off and it now starts the recast timer, so I cant even try it to test it. Once I do, im gonna bug report it, the spell is worthless in its current form imo, all it does is give you an extra second of life. The recast timer i can deal with, but the recast timer should not reset when you toggle the spell on and off, because you are not even using the spell and the recast timer starts. Message Edited by Khalad on 09-10-2005 06:11 PM

09-10-2005, 08:39 PM	#12
kono Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 167	Typo above, it's actually on a 30 minute recast. And yes, the amount of healing it does at apprentice I is a little silly. Maybe at Adept III+ it's ok? najena.konk

09-11-2005, 11:37 AM	#13
Azr Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 26	Im still wishing they change it back to original form, use to be good. Welcome to public beta in a few days ;/

09-11-2005, 03:23 PM	#14
Donners Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 33	I would also like the DoT / DPS + Haste buff most ...but ghetto DI would also work :smileysad:

09-13-2005, 01:20 AM	#15
XensosKinein Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 58	I've got to say, fellow zerkers, I'm am getting less and less enthused with what I am seeing. Seems like Sony gave everyone some good changes when they first started putting out DoF on Beta and Test, and then milked away the bennies little by little. I was getting excited about some of the changes when Khalad first started posting screenshots, but as we get closer to D Day, I'm realizing that we are going to start the first day at our new school gimped and laughed at. I was really looking forward to combat changes, but as I read the test notes, I realize that zerkers have had something taken away nearly ever day. What I think is even more interesting is that if you read the Sep 11th update from test, Guards got x spell has had it's damaged increased like 5 times in a row. I'm just flat out curious now, Are we going to be below guards in DPS? All of this is really starting to bug me. I am going to try and keep an open mind about it and I will play the new game (because absolutely nothing resembles the EQ2 I started playing back in November). However, I fully intentend to take an active role in /bugging, /petitioning, / feedbacking for everything they ph*cked up. I urge everyone else to do the same. I think it is absolute crap for SOE to realease the NDA and then nerf the crap out of every single spell on the screenshots. (except Rampage). Next they are going to change the class name from 'Berserker' to 'Smurfette'

09-13-2005, 11:21 AM	#17
XensosKinein Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 58	Aye, I agree that the Aoe's and reactives are nice, but only in a group or solo situation. The problem with applying our DPS through AoE's is that , in a raid situation, Aoe's are a pbad idea (Breaking Mez, or gaining unwanted aggro from adds). Although our zerks now buff DPS as well, I don't think it will make up for the hit we've taken to our hastes, especially when you take into consideration the fact that haste items and spells no longer stack. I like the AGI buffs you get with Vehemence, however, by buffing AGI, you are more likely to avoid an attack, thus losing the chance to proc a reactive. The reactives would be nice, if our Mitigation went up a bit, but it seems to be the contrary, I'm losing about 400 mitigation from my accessories, and as I understand it, the armor is being bumped down too. The one glimmering light that I do see is that a zerker is going to be a great buff for a DPS group of scouts in a raid with the str buff and group zerk, I think that will be a somewhat entertaining role to play. Short of that, I see us as the guild heritage guide, running around with a single group playing a tank/group DPS role. Once again, this is all speculation, but the changes just don't seem too favorable, we have gained some nice CA's but I feel the cost has been too high. I really liked playing my zerker as he is. The balance with the guards seemed perfect witha zerker as an MA or DPS buff. To me it seems like the best parts of each world were taken away. I suppose, as I stated in my first post, I am more disgruntled, not by the changes, but by the changes to the changes.... especially this last one for Vision of Madness. I mean come on! Well the update is out tomorrow and there's not much to do about it now but wait for LU#14 which I hope is able to round out the damage done by these changes. One thing for sure, I would really like to see SOE find that balance they are always talking about and then leave the game the hell alone. I get sick of fighting and upgrading, only to have the upgrades I've worked so hard for (i.e. Masters, Adept 3's, MONFREAKINGSOON!) made obsolete by their tinkering. I'm really [Removed for Content] off that My Monsoon is worthless now.

09-13-2005, 02:32 PM	#18
Tudd Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 187	MItigation was bumped down to avoid hitting the cap too easily. The xxx Defense line not only does damage, but it also procs a taunt. So in any situation where mobs are hitting you, you are gaining hate on them. If mobs are mezzed or aren't hitting you, then your not gaining additional aggro from them. The only problem I see with reactives is that, because they are an additional attack now rather than direct damage, they can be riposted. But as Khalad pointed out, it being an additional attack also adds the benefit of you being able to proc off from that attack. So I'd say that our reactives are probably a great, if not invaluable, tool during raids. Like anything, a tool can be good or bad depending on the situation. Our AoE's have to be applied intelligently. Our AoE's and reactives are meant to take up some of the hit we took for losing our haste. Our increased tanking ability is meant to switch us away from being a DPS machine. So in regard to being MA or DPS buff, we still can fill both of those roles. In addition, we are now much more viable as MT's on raids also. The only role we won't excel at anymore is doing DPS in and of itself. If we aren't tanking, then our DPS will be limited.

09-13-2005, 09:31 PM	#20
Khal Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 649	You never die with the spell, you only loose conciousness, so you keep agrp. Healer has to be fast in order to keep you up after.

09-13-2005, 09:34 PM	#21
Fundi General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 67	Fundinn rescinds his stamp of approval. Nice effort Sony, try again next time.... OR just heal us for 22% as it was originally. That isn't asking much! __________________ Fundinn - Befallen

09-13-2005, 09:37 PM	#22
Khal Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 649	10% would be enough at least, a 195 heal at level 60 berserked and a 49 heal not berserked is not gonna help much. I begged on the beta boards about this but nothing was changed.

09-13-2005, 11:18 PM	#23
Donners Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 33	Hahaha it heals us for 49 when we go unconscious? Sony sorry but YOU SUCK :smileyvery-happy:

09-14-2005, 12:12 AM	#24
kono Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 167	Khalad wrote: 10% would be enough at least, a 195 heal at level 60 berserked and a 49 heal not berserked is not gonna help much. I begged on the beta boards about this but nothing was changed. All it seems to be good for is a "Get Out of AE Free" card, which can be nice, but not on a 30 minute timer. najena.konk

09-14-2005, 06:25 AM	#25
Khal Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 649	"Hahaha it heals us for 49 when we go unconscious? Sony sorry but YOU SUCK " Thats when your not berserked. When you are getting hit enough to die, you will usually be berserk. Still, 195 is low.