Tides of War wasnt broke.....

Styk · 03-19-2005, 01:07 AM

Tides of War wasnt broke in the last patch they changed our group buff into a self buff on purpose.... read the description carefully now... Thanks SoE for secretly nerfing berserkers YET AGAIN ....... [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]? is it not enough that you killed our dps how many times in a row but now you killed 1 of the 2 things we had to offer groups and raids versatility wise? SoE what are you thinking? For those who DONT KNOW Tides of War use to be a group atk buff which also gave the group haste..... now in its description it only buffs THE CASTER with the attack buff/haste buff portion...yet when you read its description in the total amount of spells on you ( not maintained ) it still says INCREASES THE OFFENSE OF GROUP..... I now count 5 nerf to berserkers since launch? I wanna see ANY other class compete with that much nerfage? Now im just waiting for Destructive Rage to be nerfed ....... since its a group HP/atk speed buff also...... Strykr Destructicus 47 Berserker

Padi · 03-19-2005, 02:28 AM

Styker wrote:
Tides of War wasnt broke in the last patch they changed our group buff into a self buff on purpose.... read the description carefully now... Thanks SoE for secretly nerfing berserkers YET AGAIN .......

[expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]? is it not enough that you killed our dps how many times in a row but now you killed 1 of the 2 things we had to offer groups and raids versatility wise?

SoE what are you thinking?

For those who DONT KNOW Tides of War use to be a group atk buff which also gave the group haste..... now in its description it only buffs THE CASTER with the attack buff/haste buff portion...yet when you read its description in the total amount of spells on you ( not maintained ) it still says INCREASES THE OFFENSE OF GROUP.....

I now count 5 nerf to berserkers since launch?

I wanna see ANY other class compete with that much nerfage?

Now im just waiting for Destructive Rage to be nerfed ....... since its a group HP/atk speed buff also......

Strykr Destructicus
47 Berserker

When ever I read it prior, I always assumed it only raised the zerkers haste and damage on the proc. I never realized I ever did raise anyone elses damage on a proc until you started whining.

-Aonein- · 03-19-2005, 03:15 AM

Aye its a upgrade to Bloodlust, so the group should be getting the +9 skill points to offense skills, but no one else is getting them except the berserker, they broke it last patch, before last patch it was adding haste + offense skills to the whole group, now instead of fixing it like it always stated in the description and making it haste only for the Berserker and group buff offensive skills, they just went and broke the whole thing.

Tides of War Adept 3 :

Description : Increases the offense of the group and increases the attack speed of the berserker.

Increase Attack Speed of the caster by 47%
Increase Crushing, Piercing and Slashing of caster by 10
Casts Berserk on caster. On succesful attack this sepll has a 10% chance to :

Increase Damage Per Second of target by 5%
Increase Attack Speed of target by 43%

As you can see, it should be adding numbers to skill points, Crushing, Piercing and Slashing, simple test, buff your group and ask them if their skill points changed in those skills and ask them if they got a Tides of War buff in the window.

Taemek Frozenberg 44th Berserker
16th Outfitter
Blood and Ice
Everfrost Server

Enlightened Aonein Amillion ( retired )
70th Stone Fist of The Celestial Fist
Five Rings on Luclin Server

Message Edited by -Aonein- on 03-19-200508:16 AM

Message Edited by -Aonein- on 03-19-2005 08:16 AM

Message Edited by -Aonein- on 03-19-2005 08:17 AM

Message Edited by -Aonein- on 03-19-2005 08:36 AM

Toxa · 03-19-2005, 04:44 AM

nt

Message Edited by Toxaur on 03-18-2005 03:47 PM

Svan · 03-19-2005, 08:42 AM

Styker wrote:

For those who DONT KNOW Tides of War use to be a group atk buff which also gave the group haste..... now in its description it only buffs THE CASTER with the attack buff/haste buff portion...yet when you read its description in the total amount of spells on you ( not maintained ) it still says INCREASES THE OFFENSE OF GROUP.....

so they bugged their fix, what's new?

47% haste to everyone in the group AND melee skill buff AND another chance to proc berserk on yourself all up all the time for little cost was a bit excessive, since we're kinda tanks.

Eukat · 03-19-2005, 08:48 AM

I count 10 nerfs.

Styk · 03-19-2005, 05:07 PM

The spell wasnt "BUGGED" it was changed outright... read the description closely, now it says raises CASTERS slashing/crushing/piercing by X amount instead of group like it was originally ment to... Haste portion was ment to be self but not the atk portion.... if you look in the regular spells ( not maintained ) if still says INCREASE OFFENSE OF GROUP AND ATTACK SPEED OF BERSERKER But if you read the actuall spell description now both componants of spell are SELF buff only... Oh and Padian , you can kiss me [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] for all i care, we are the most nerfed class in this game by far over ANY other class also i pay to play this game so if i want to complain about it [Removed for Content] I can.....

Padi · 03-19-2005, 09:53 PM

Styker wrote:
The spell wasnt "BUGGED" it was changed outright... read the description closely, now it says raises CASTERS slashing/crushing/piercing by X amount instead of group like it was originally ment to... Haste portion was ment to be self but not the atk portion.... if you look in the regular spells ( not maintained ) if still says INCREASE OFFENSE OF GROUP AND ATTACK SPEED OF BERSERKER

But if you read the actuall spell description now both componants of spell are SELF buff only...

Oh and Padian , you can kiss me [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] for all i care, we are the most nerfed class in this game by far over ANY other class also i pay to play this game so if i want to complain about it [Removed for Content] I can.....

You apparently aren't aware that the fine detailed description on exactly what an ability does is not the description the dev's use to determine what a skill should do. The general description is the real one. The fine print is nothing more than a link to the code itself. Someone screwed up and made it caster only, but that's not the intended behavior, the intended behavior, even now after the bug is:

Increases the offense of the group and increases the attack speed of the berserker.

And that description remains unchanged. When it finally does get fixed, it might not even give the base haste to the group still, but it will raise their skill, that you can count on.

Message Edited by Padien on 03-19-2005 08:55 AM

Padi · 03-19-2005, 11:19 PM

Styker wrote:

Oh and Padian , you can kiss me [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] for all i care, we are the most nerfed class in this game by far over ANY other class also i pay to play this game so if i want to complain about it [Removed for Content] I can.....

We may be the most nerfed class in the game, but by the parsed logs I see still, we were and remain one of the most overpowered classes in the game too.

Styk · 03-19-2005, 11:57 PM

Padian read the spell itself not the description after its casted .... if someone "messed" up then why did they have the time to go thru the text and replace group with caster for the atk buff portion? You are not serious are you when you say "overpowered" lol you have got to be kidding me.... if you havent noticed we are the most watered down class in the game now .... no other class has been modified to this extent.

Padi · 03-20-2005, 01:36 AM

Styker wrote:
Padian read the spell itself not the description after its casted .... if someone "messed" up then why did they have the time to go thru the text and replace group with caster for the atk buff portion?

You are not serious are you when you say "overpowered" lol you have got to be kidding me.... if you havent noticed we are the most watered down class in the game now .... no other class has been modified to this extent.

The spell description, the one that is on the book, the one that is at the top when you examine the spell says this word for word:

Increases the offense of the group and increases the attack speed of the berserker.

I tried to explain to you before, the part at the bottom that gives the exact details is a link to the code. If the code is done improperly it will show that info there. Since the description still exists as it does above, we can only conclude that what we have now is a blug. However, what we had before was also a bug. Eventually they'll get it to match as it's suposed to, but don't expect it to increase the groups haste, and the 5% damage increase may or may not be included. (I wrote this above, if you read it. If you still don't get it, go into the game, examine the skill and read only the top half of it, that is the what the skills are suposed to do, the bottom part is a link to the code itself).

Davish_Darkwolf · 03-20-2005, 02:43 AM

> We may be the most nerfed class in the game, but by the parsed logs I see still, we were and remain one of the most overpowered classes in the game too <

I can't believe what im seeing..... you play a Zerker, got yourself nerfed xxx times and still say you are overpowered?

Do you want another nerf????

Why do you say we are overpowered? Can you mitigate as much as a guardian? Who normally is chosen for Main Tank in big raids? Guardians right?

Yes, you do more damage than a Guardian / Pally or SK but we should do more damage than them, that's one of our few unique features, so please stop saying we are overpowered cause youre just hurting our class more with this kind of remarks.

Nerfs are bad enough thx

Padi · 03-20-2005, 03:15 AM

Davish_Darkwolf wrote:

> We may be the most nerfed class in the game, but by the parsed logs I see still, we were and remain one of the most overpowered classes in the game too <

I can't believe what im seeing..... you play a Zerker, got yourself nerfed xxx times and still say you are overpowered?

Do you want another nerf????

Why do you say we are overpowered? Can you mitigate as much as a guardian? Who normally is chosen for Main Tank in big raids? Guardians right?

Yes, you do more damage than a Guardian / Pally or SK but we should do more damage than them, that's one of our few unique features, so please stop saying we are overpowered cause youre just hurting our class more with this kind of remarks.

Nerfs are bad enough thx

I say we are over powered because besides wizards and warlocks, I out damage everyone when trying for DPS almost all the time. Even as main tank I usually out DPS everyone. I even out DPS wizards and warlocks frequently who are my level and higher. Not only do I dps everyone almost 95% of the time, I have nothing better than adept 1's. Something is out of whack if you ask me.

And for reference, I'm a level 43 gnome berserker with 100 self buffed str.

Message Edited by Padien on 03-19-2005 02:16 PM

Svan · 03-20-2005, 03:23 AM

ya know Styker, it's awfully appearent in a lot of your posts that you're not at all happy with your class. that's really too bad :smileysad:

good news though! Sony is givin everyone 2 extra character slots! *hint hint*

Styker wrote:

You are not serious are you when you say "overpowered" lol you have got to be kidding me.... if you havent noticed we are the most watered down class in the game now .... no other class has been modified to this extent.

if you think we have it bad, take a stroll over to the sk boards sometime.

-Aonein- · 03-20-2005, 04:42 AM

Padien wrote:

I say we are over powered because besides wizards and warlocks, I out damage everyone when trying for DPS almost all the time. Even as main tank I usually out DPS everyone. I even out DPS wizards and warlocks frequently who are my level and higher. Not only do I dps everyone almost 95% of the time, I have nothing better than adept 1's. Something is out of whack if you ask me.

And for reference, I'm a level 43 gnome berserker with 100 self buffed str.

Message Edited by Padien on 03-19-200502:16 PM

Thats because of AE damage makes it look like we are out DPS'ing people, line your self up with ANY Mage / Scout and play a DPS role, not a Tank role and only use ^^ single mobs, not group encounters, now tell me we are over powered. People need to learn how to use a parser and not jsut install it and use default settings.

Like i have said before, when you are doing 200+ damage to all the mobs in a encounter, a Mage can beat you hands down anyway, and a Scout is doing the same amount of damage to a single target mob that you just done to the entire encounter in the time it took to cast the ae attacks. Put Berserkers in a DPS mode, in the back with teh Scout, non group encounters and watch our DPS go down the drain, bring the Group encounters back and watch the number climb again, but there is no possible way that we can out damage a Mage, unless you cant hold agro and he cant nuke like he should be doing which in turn isnt the Mages fault, its the Berserkers fault for not knowing how to play his class right.

People need to stop posting newbie posts and start looking at the entire picture instead of numbers generated by a parser, and learn how to use a parser.

Taemek Frozenberg 45th Berserker
16th Outfitter
Blood and Ice
Everfrost Server

Enlightened Aonein Amillion ( retired )
70th Stone Fist of The Celestial Fist
Five Rings on Luclin Server

Padi · 03-20-2005, 05:41 AM

-Aonein- wrote:

Padien wrote:

I say we are over powered because besides wizards and warlocks, I out damage everyone when trying for DPS almost all the time. Even as main tank I usually out DPS everyone. I even out DPS wizards and warlocks frequently who are my level and higher. Not only do I dps everyone almost 95% of the time, I have nothing better than adept 1's. Something is out of whack if you ask me.

And for reference, I'm a level 43 gnome berserker with 100 self buffed str.

Message Edited by Padien on 03-19-200502:16 PM

Thats because of AE damage makes it look like we are out DPS'ing people, line your self up with ANY Mage / Scout and play a DPS role, not a Tank role and only use ^^ single mobs, not group encounters, now tell me we are over powered. People need to learn how to use a parser and not jsut install it and use default settings.

Like i have said before, when you are doing 200+ damage to all the mobs in a encounter, a Mage can beat you hands down anyway, and a Scout is doing the same amount of damage to a single target mob that you just done to the entire encounter in the time it took to cast the ae attacks. Put Berserkers in a DPS mode, in the back with teh Scout, non group encounters and watch our DPS go down the drain, bring the Group encounters back and watch the number climb again, but there is no possible way that we can out damage a Mage, unless you cant hold agro and he cant nuke like he should be doing which in turn isnt the Mages fault, its the Berserkers fault for not knowing how to play his class right.

People need to stop posting newbie posts and start looking at the entire picture instead of numbers generated by a parser, and learn how to use a parser.

Taemek Frozenberg 45th Berserker
16th Outfitter
Blood and Ice
Everfrost Server

Enlightened Aonein Amillion ( retired )
70th Stone Fist of The Celestial Fist
Five Rings on Luclin Server

First off, both single target and group target fights are equally valid as comparisons, and an average of the 2 is the most fair way to compare because we fight both. You are the one who needs to learn to parse, both are suposed to be compared not just one side.

2nd, I do about the same single target dps as most classes or more. Wizards and Warlocks are usually slightly ahead of me, but the rest are about the same or lower (usually lower). Assassins sometimes swap from kill to kill depending on if they have there big hit skills up (up to 5 mins recast timers).

3rd, if you go to the real truth of the parser, total damage per encounter, it's very rare indeed that anyone out damages me, because I start the fight, I'm always a little head, but the time frame makes my DPS a little lower than it would be if I started at the same time as the rest of the group.

It's true that I frequently don't do as high of DPS when I'm MT with a shield out, but when I go DPS mode, my DPS is as high as anyones.

Message Edited by Padien on 03-19-2005 04:48 PM

Davish_Darkwolf · 03-20-2005, 08:18 AM

Zerkers shine in groups like Aonein said. We have great AE skills that can fool around with parses quite a bit.

So now, forget parsers and go out fight solo. Compare a fight of yours with a guardian fighting the same mob. Who ends up with most HP? Who killed the mob faster? Now compare with a Bruiser or a Shadow Knight, same results? Can you really tell that BIG difference?

Perhaps we killed the mob a bit faster than a Guardian, but with less HP. Isnt that right?

SOE stated we were doing a bit more damage than other Tank classes. We are Zerkers, enraged fighters, we DO hit more than them. The day when your DPS is equal or lesser than other Tank classes, is the day when Zerkers die in EQ2.

When youre Tanking, you can go DPS only but you will suffer from it and so will your healers, sure your DPS is great, but what about the power healers take to heal ya in the process?.

Grab a sword and shield, see the difference in your hps and your healer's power after fight. Your DPS wont be so great, but very useful and some times even still shining.

Now go and Off-Tank..... do you do more damage than a Monk or a Caster? Dont telll me youre constantly using your AE moves (and drawing attention from MT to yourself). Other than that we do high-constant damage, not HUGE when off-tanking.

We DO good over-time damage. Monks, Rangers, Assassins can DO more damage in short amounts of time. Go and see Bruisers forums and take a look. Look at higuest melee hits in EQ2Players and take a look.

Our damage numbers dont reach that high, but yes, we can do damage to more than 1 mob in a group, that's what our class is all about. We are enraged fighters and as in reality, to be side-by-side with a Zerker (in fact, to be nearer a enraged Zerker) was a very dangerous situation, even to his friends.... cause when his rage hits the fan, it hits everyone near (as in EQ2).

Our damage is more like a constant over-average line.... DPS classes damage is a constant over-average line but with high peaks. The times we get those high-peaks are mainly the times when we are AE fighting.

Take the Warlock class for instance, when played right it deals HUGE amounts of damage - when played right. If they let me do the pulling and grab the initial aggro, i wont have problems with mobs aggroing to him afterwards..... but when they dont do that, when they start nuking hard before you grab a good amount of initial hate, then mobs turn to them like they killed their entire family and i will have to start using a lot of aggro skills to take aggro off them.

That shows their power, they are Hate machines, so much.... that if not played right, they can end-up dead if MT cant draw aggro back to him again in time.

IMO using parses is very subjective, cause there are so many combinations you can have with so many different results that it would take heavy studying of them to reach conclusive reliable information.

Message Edited by Davish_Darkwolf on 03-20-2005 03:22 AM

Message Edited by Davish_Darkwolf on 03-20-2005 03:28 AM

Padi · 03-20-2005, 09:14 AM

Let me try to answer a few of your thoughts.

When I'm off tank, you better believe I use bloodrage and my AE's. Yes, sometimes I grab some agro, but does it matter if another tank is taking damage from a non arrow mob that hits like a panzy? No it doesn't and my damage more than makes up for any extra damage I take.

My DPS is high because ToW haste, fbss, ancient ring and rage and other zerker procs. I generally am running at 100% haste while the group is running at much lower haste. Some how it does add up so I'm consistantly doing very high DPS.

And again, single target DPS is not the gauge for your DPS, and neither is grouped encounters, it's an average of the two because we fight both.

And as far as taking a beating if I go DPS, well, that depends on what I fight and I swap between both dps and shield mode I decide by how the healers are keeping up.

And I can't be doing anything really wrong because most people I group with seem to think I'm the tank they've grouped with.

I do have an edge when I go offensive mode while tanking over many. I have 2 DW weapons, one has a 500 point ward, the other a 500 point heal proc.

denuded_shad · 03-20-2005, 10:05 AM

"I count 10 nerfs." -eukatae

go check out the bruiser and monk boards then go look at the shaman classes and then you can complain. about who's nerfing who and who's getting attention.

03-19-2005, 01:07 AM	#1
Styk Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: San Diego,CA Posts: 559	Tides of War wasnt broke in the last patch they changed our group buff into a self buff on purpose.... read the description carefully now... Thanks SoE for secretly nerfing berserkers YET AGAIN ....... [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]? is it not enough that you killed our dps how many times in a row but now you killed 1 of the 2 things we had to offer groups and raids versatility wise? SoE what are you thinking? For those who DONT KNOW Tides of War use to be a group atk buff which also gave the group haste..... now in its description it only buffs THE CASTER with the attack buff/haste buff portion...yet when you read its description in the total amount of spells on you ( not maintained ) it still says INCREASES THE OFFENSE OF GROUP..... I now count 5 nerf to berserkers since launch? I wanna see ANY other class compete with that much nerfage? Now im just waiting for Destructive Rage to be nerfed ....... since its a group HP/atk speed buff also...... Strykr Destructicus 47 Berserker __________________ Zesstra - 70 Warlock Halcyon Affinity - Antonia Bayle

03-19-2005, 02:28 AM	#2
Padi Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 392	Styker wrote: Tides of War wasnt broke in the last patch they changed our group buff into a self buff on purpose.... read the description carefully now... Thanks SoE for secretly nerfing berserkers YET AGAIN ....... [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]? is it not enough that you killed our dps how many times in a row but now you killed 1 of the 2 things we had to offer groups and raids versatility wise? SoE what are you thinking? For those who DONT KNOW Tides of War use to be a group atk buff which also gave the group haste..... now in its description it only buffs THE CASTER with the attack buff/haste buff portion...yet when you read its description in the total amount of spells on you ( not maintained ) it still says INCREASES THE OFFENSE OF GROUP..... I now count 5 nerf to berserkers since launch? I wanna see ANY other class compete with that much nerfage? Now im just waiting for Destructive Rage to be nerfed ....... since its a group HP/atk speed buff also...... Strykr Destructicus 47 Berserker When ever I read it prior, I always assumed it only raised the zerkers haste and damage on the proc. I never realized I ever did raise anyone elses damage on a proc until you started whining.

03-19-2005, 03:15 AM	#3
-Aonein- Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,673	Aye its a upgrade to Bloodlust, so the group should be getting the +9 skill points to offense skills, but no one else is getting them except the berserker, they broke it last patch, before last patch it was adding haste + offense skills to the whole group, now instead of fixing it like it always stated in the description and making it haste only for the Berserker and group buff offensive skills, they just went and broke the whole thing. Tides of War Adept 3 : Description : Increases the offense of the group and increases the attack speed of the berserker. Increase Attack Speed of the caster by 47% Increase Crushing, Piercing and Slashing of caster by 10 Casts Berserk on caster. On succesful attack this sepll has a 10% chance to : Increase Damage Per Second of target by 5% Increase Attack Speed of target by 43% As you can see, it should be adding numbers to skill points, Crushing, Piercing and Slashing, simple test, buff your group and ask them if their skill points changed in those skills and ask them if they got a Tides of War buff in the window. Taemek Frozenberg 44th Berserker 16th Outfitter Blood and Ice Everfrost Server Enlightened Aonein Amillion ( retired ) 70th Stone Fist of The Celestial Fist Five Rings on Luclin Server Message Edited by -Aonein- on 03-19-200508:16 AM Message Edited by -Aonein- on 03-19-2005 08:16 AM Message Edited by -Aonein- on 03-19-2005 08:17 AM Message Edited by -Aonein- on 03-19-2005 08:36 AM __________________

03-19-2005, 04:44 AM	#4
Toxa Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 165	nt Message Edited by Toxaur on 03-18-2005 03:47 PM __________________

03-19-2005, 08:42 AM	#5
Svan General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 152	Styker wrote: For those who DONT KNOW Tides of War use to be a group atk buff which also gave the group haste..... now in its description it only buffs THE CASTER with the attack buff/haste buff portion...yet when you read its description in the total amount of spells on you ( not maintained ) it still says INCREASES THE OFFENSE OF GROUP..... so they bugged their fix, what's new? 47% haste to everyone in the group AND melee skill buff AND another chance to proc berserk on yourself all up all the time for little cost was a bit excessive, since we're kinda tanks.

03-19-2005, 08:48 AM	#6
Eukat Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 28	I count 10 nerfs.

03-19-2005, 05:07 PM	#7
Styk Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: San Diego,CA Posts: 559	The spell wasnt "BUGGED" it was changed outright... read the description closely, now it says raises CASTERS slashing/crushing/piercing by X amount instead of group like it was originally ment to... Haste portion was ment to be self but not the atk portion.... if you look in the regular spells ( not maintained ) if still says INCREASE OFFENSE OF GROUP AND ATTACK SPEED OF BERSERKER But if you read the actuall spell description now both componants of spell are SELF buff only... Oh and Padian , you can kiss me [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] for all i care, we are the most nerfed class in this game by far over ANY other class also i pay to play this game so if i want to complain about it [Removed for Content] I can..... __________________ Zesstra - 70 Warlock Halcyon Affinity - Antonia Bayle

03-19-2005, 09:53 PM	#8
Padi Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 392	Styker wrote: The spell wasnt "BUGGED" it was changed outright... read the description closely, now it says raises CASTERS slashing/crushing/piercing by X amount instead of group like it was originally ment to... Haste portion was ment to be self but not the atk portion.... if you look in the regular spells ( not maintained ) if still says INCREASE OFFENSE OF GROUP AND ATTACK SPEED OF BERSERKER But if you read the actuall spell description now both componants of spell are SELF buff only... Oh and Padian , you can kiss me [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] for all i care, we are the most nerfed class in this game by far over ANY other class also i pay to play this game so if i want to complain about it [Removed for Content] I can..... You apparently aren't aware that the fine detailed description on exactly what an ability does is not the description the dev's use to determine what a skill should do. The general description is the real one. The fine print is nothing more than a link to the code itself. Someone screwed up and made it caster only, but that's not the intended behavior, the intended behavior, even now after the bug is: *Increases the offense of the group and increases the attack speed of the berserker.* And that description remains unchanged. When it finally does get fixed, it might not even give the base haste to the group still, but it will raise their skill, that you can count on. Message Edited by Padien on 03-19-2005 08:55 AM

03-19-2005, 11:19 PM	#9
Padi Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 392	Styker wrote: Oh and Padian , you can kiss me [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] for all i care, we are the most nerfed class in this game by far over ANY other class also i pay to play this game so if i want to complain about it [Removed for Content] I can..... We may be the most nerfed class in the game, but by the parsed logs I see still, we were and remain one of the most overpowered classes in the game too.

03-19-2005, 11:57 PM	#10
Styk Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: San Diego,CA Posts: 559	Padian read the spell itself not the description after its casted .... if someone "messed" up then why did they have the time to go thru the text and replace group with caster for the atk buff portion? You are not serious are you when you say "overpowered" lol you have got to be kidding me.... if you havent noticed we are the most watered down class in the game now .... no other class has been modified to this extent. __________________ Zesstra - 70 Warlock Halcyon Affinity - Antonia Bayle

03-20-2005, 01:36 AM	#11
Padi Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 392	Styker wrote: Padian read the spell itself not the description after its casted .... if someone "messed" up then why did they have the time to go thru the text and replace group with caster for the atk buff portion? You are not serious are you when you say "overpowered" lol you have got to be kidding me.... if you havent noticed we are the most watered down class in the game now .... no other class has been modified to this extent. The spell description, the one that is on the book, the one that is at the top when you examine the spell says this word for word: *Increases the offense of the group and increases the attack speed of the berserker.* I tried to explain to you before, the part at the bottom that gives the exact details is a link to the code. If the code is done improperly it will show that info there. Since the description still exists as it does above, we can only conclude that what we have now is a blug. However, what we had before was also a bug. Eventually they'll get it to match as it's suposed to, but don't expect it to increase the groups haste, and the 5% damage increase may or may not be included. (I wrote this above, if you read it. If you still don't get it, go into the game, examine the skill and read only the top half of it, that is the what the skills are suposed to do, the bottom part is a link to the code itself).

03-20-2005, 02:43 AM	#12
Davish_Darkwolf Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 259	> We may be the most nerfed class in the game, but by the parsed logs I see still, we were and remain one of the most overpowered classes in the game too < I can't believe what im seeing..... you play a Zerker, got yourself nerfed xxx times and still say you are overpowered? Do you want another nerf???? Why do you say we are overpowered? Can you mitigate as much as a guardian? Who normally is chosen for Main Tank in big raids? Guardians right? Yes, you do more damage than a Guardian / Pally or SK but we should do more damage than them, that's one of our few unique features, so please stop saying we are overpowered cause youre just hurting our class more with this kind of remarks. Nerfs are bad enough thx __________________

03-20-2005, 03:15 AM	#13
Padi Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 392	Davish_Darkwolf wrote: > We may be the most nerfed class in the game, but by the parsed logs I see still, we were and remain one of the most overpowered classes in the game too < I can't believe what im seeing..... you play a Zerker, got yourself nerfed xxx times and still say you are overpowered? Do you want another nerf???? Why do you say we are overpowered? Can you mitigate as much as a guardian? Who normally is chosen for Main Tank in big raids? Guardians right? Yes, you do more damage than a Guardian / Pally or SK but we should do more damage than them, that's one of our few unique features, so please stop saying we are overpowered cause youre just hurting our class more with this kind of remarks. Nerfs are bad enough thx I say we are over powered because besides wizards and warlocks, I out damage everyone when trying for DPS almost all the time. Even as main tank I usually out DPS everyone. I even out DPS wizards and warlocks frequently who are my level and higher. Not only do I dps everyone almost 95% of the time, I have nothing better than adept 1's. Something is out of whack if you ask me. And for reference, I'm a level 43 gnome berserker with 100 self buffed str. Message Edited by Padien on 03-19-2005 02:16 PM

03-20-2005, 03:23 AM	#14
Svan General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 152	ya know Styker, it's awfully appearent in a lot of your posts that you're not at all happy with your class. that's really too bad :smileysad: good news though! Sony is givin everyone 2 extra character slots! hint hint Styker wrote: You are not serious are you when you say "overpowered" lol you have got to be kidding me.... if you havent noticed we are the most watered down class in the game now .... no other class has been modified to this extent. if you think we have it bad, take a stroll over to the sk boards sometime.

03-20-2005, 04:42 AM	#15
-Aonein- Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,673	Padien wrote: I say we are over powered because besides wizards and warlocks, I out damage everyone when trying for DPS almost all the time. Even as main tank I usually out DPS everyone. I even out DPS wizards and warlocks frequently who are my level and higher. Not only do I dps everyone almost 95% of the time, I have nothing better than adept 1's. Something is out of whack if you ask me. And for reference, I'm a level 43 gnome berserker with 100 self buffed str. Message Edited by Padien on 03-19-200502:16 PM Thats because of AE damage makes it look like we are out DPS'ing people, line your self up with ANY Mage / Scout and play a DPS role, not a Tank role and only use ^^ single mobs, not group encounters, now tell me we are over powered. People need to learn how to use a parser and not jsut install it and use default settings. Like i have said before, when you are doing 200+ damage to all the mobs in a encounter, a Mage can beat you hands down anyway, and a Scout is doing the same amount of damage to a single target mob that you just done to the entire encounter in the time it took to cast the ae attacks. Put Berserkers in a DPS mode, in the back with teh Scout, non group encounters and watch our DPS go down the drain, bring the Group encounters back and watch the number climb again, but there is no possible way that we can out damage a Mage, unless you cant hold agro and he cant nuke like he should be doing which in turn isnt the Mages fault, its the Berserkers fault for not knowing how to play his class right. People need to stop posting newbie posts and start looking at the entire picture instead of numbers generated by a parser, and learn how to use a parser. Taemek Frozenberg 45th Berserker 16th Outfitter Blood and Ice Everfrost Server Enlightened Aonein Amillion ( retired ) 70th Stone Fist of The Celestial Fist Five Rings on Luclin Server __________________

03-20-2005, 05:41 AM	#16
Padi Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 392	-Aonein- wrote: Padien wrote: I say we are over powered because besides wizards and warlocks, I out damage everyone when trying for DPS almost all the time. Even as main tank I usually out DPS everyone. I even out DPS wizards and warlocks frequently who are my level and higher. Not only do I dps everyone almost 95% of the time, I have nothing better than adept 1's. Something is out of whack if you ask me. And for reference, I'm a level 43 gnome berserker with 100 self buffed str. Message Edited by Padien on 03-19-200502:16 PM Thats because of AE damage makes it look like we are out DPS'ing people, line your self up with ANY Mage / Scout and play a DPS role, not a Tank role and only use ^^ single mobs, not group encounters, now tell me we are over powered. People need to learn how to use a parser and not jsut install it and use default settings. Like i have said before, when you are doing 200+ damage to all the mobs in a encounter, a Mage can beat you hands down anyway, and a Scout is doing the same amount of damage to a single target mob that you just done to the entire encounter in the time it took to cast the ae attacks. Put Berserkers in a DPS mode, in the back with teh Scout, non group encounters and watch our DPS go down the drain, bring the Group encounters back and watch the number climb again, but there is no possible way that we can out damage a Mage, unless you cant hold agro and he cant nuke like he should be doing which in turn isnt the Mages fault, its the Berserkers fault for not knowing how to play his class right. People need to stop posting newbie posts and start looking at the entire picture instead of numbers generated by a parser, and learn how to use a parser. Taemek Frozenberg 45th Berserker 16th Outfitter Blood and Ice Everfrost Server Enlightened Aonein Amillion ( retired ) 70th Stone Fist of The Celestial Fist Five Rings on Luclin Server First off, both single target and group target fights are equally valid as comparisons, and an average of the 2 is the most fair way to compare because we fight both. You are the one who needs to learn to parse, both are suposed to be compared not just one side. 2nd, I do about the same single target dps as most classes or more. Wizards and Warlocks are usually slightly ahead of me, but the rest are about the same or lower (usually lower). Assassins sometimes swap from kill to kill depending on if they have there big hit skills up (up to 5 mins recast timers). 3rd, if you go to the real truth of the parser, total damage per encounter, it's very rare indeed that anyone out damages me, because I start the fight, I'm always a little head, but the time frame makes my DPS a little lower than it would be if I started at the same time as the rest of the group. It's true that I frequently don't do as high of DPS when I'm MT with a shield out, but when I go DPS mode, my DPS is as high as anyones. Message Edited by Padien on 03-19-2005 04:48 PM

03-20-2005, 08:18 AM	#17
Davish_Darkwolf Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 259	Zerkers shine in groups like Aonein said. We have great AE skills that can fool around with parses quite a bit. So now, forget parsers and go out fight solo. Compare a fight of yours with a guardian fighting the same mob. Who ends up with most HP? Who killed the mob faster? Now compare with a Bruiser or a Shadow Knight, same results? Can you really tell that BIG difference? Perhaps we killed the mob a bit faster than a Guardian, but with less HP. Isnt that right? SOE stated we were doing a bit more damage than other Tank classes. We are Zerkers, enraged fighters, we DO hit more than them. The day when your DPS is equal or lesser than other Tank classes, is the day when Zerkers die in EQ2. When youre Tanking, you can go DPS only but you will suffer from it and so will your healers, sure your DPS is great, but what about the power healers take to heal ya in the process?. Grab a sword and shield, see the difference in your hps and your healer's power after fight. Your DPS wont be so great, but very useful and some times even still shining. Now go and Off-Tank..... do you do more damage than a Monk or a Caster? Dont telll me youre constantly using your AE moves (and drawing attention from MT to yourself). Other than that we do high-constant damage, not HUGE when off-tanking. We DO good over-time damage. Monks, Rangers, Assassins can DO more damage in short amounts of time. Go and see Bruisers forums and take a look. Look at higuest melee hits in EQ2Players and take a look. Our damage numbers dont reach that high, but yes, we can do damage to more than 1 mob in a group, that's what our class is all about. We are enraged fighters and as in reality, to be side-by-side with a Zerker (in fact, to be nearer a enraged Zerker) was a very dangerous situation, even to his friends.... cause when his rage hits the fan, it hits everyone near (as in EQ2). Our damage is more like a constant over-average line.... DPS classes damage is a constant over-average line but with high peaks. The times we get those high-peaks are mainly the times when we are AE fighting. Take the Warlock class for instance, when played right it deals HUGE amounts of damage - when played right. If they let me do the pulling and grab the initial aggro, i wont have problems with mobs aggroing to him afterwards..... but when they dont do that, when they start nuking hard before you grab a good amount of initial hate, then mobs turn to them like they killed their entire family and i will have to start using a lot of aggro skills to take aggro off them. That shows their power, they are Hate machines, so much.... that if not played right, they can end-up dead if MT cant draw aggro back to him again in time. IMO using parses is very subjective, cause there are so many combinations you can have with so many different results that it would take heavy studying of them to reach conclusive reliable information. Message Edited by Davish_Darkwolf on 03-20-2005 03:22 AM Message Edited by Davish_Darkwolf on 03-20-2005 03:28 AM __________________

03-20-2005, 09:14 AM	#18
Padi Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 392	Let me try to answer a few of your thoughts. When I'm off tank, you better believe I use bloodrage and my AE's. Yes, sometimes I grab some agro, but does it matter if another tank is taking damage from a non arrow mob that hits like a panzy? No it doesn't and my damage more than makes up for any extra damage I take. My DPS is high because ToW haste, fbss, ancient ring and rage and other zerker procs. I generally am running at 100% haste while the group is running at much lower haste. Some how it does add up so I'm consistantly doing very high DPS. And again, single target DPS is not the gauge for your DPS, and neither is grouped encounters, it's an average of the two because we fight both. And as far as taking a beating if I go DPS, well, that depends on what I fight and I swap between both dps and shield mode I decide by how the healers are keeping up. And I can't be doing anything really wrong because most people I group with seem to think I'm the tank they've grouped with. I do have an edge when I go offensive mode while tanking over many. I have 2 DW weapons, one has a 500 point ward, the other a 500 point heal proc.

03-20-2005, 10:05 AM	#19
denuded_shad Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 5	"I count 10 nerfs." -eukatae go check out the bruiser and monk boards then go look at the shaman classes and then you can complain. about who's nerfing who and who's getting attention.