The NEED for rare crafted armor (or better) to be an effective tank

Troupez · 11-09-2005, 01:18 PM

I took about a 5 month break from EQII due to some RL issues. When I left the game I had a full suit of Handcrafted armor, jewelry, etc... This equipment worked very well so I didn't spend time harvesting rares because I play the game for fun and do not consider clicking nodes for 4 hours to be much fun. When I returned I noticed everyone running around in Legendary crafted, ebon and cobalt, and was like [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]. I hopped in a group with my handcrafted [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] and got pummeled. I mean I felt like I was playing a Mage. After a few instances like that one I decided to bite the bullet and harvest. I have full legendary now and am finally able to tank somewhat effectivly. Since many of the Guardians in this forum probably play alts and so many other fighter classes post here I would like to ask a couple of questions. Is this a problem for the avoidance tanks also? Are they forced to harvest countless hours as well? The life of a plate tank is very expensive now and very unfulfilling.

Message Edited by Troupez on 11-09-2005 03:25 AM

Message Edited by Troupez on 11-09-2005 03:26 AM

Aethane · 11-09-2005, 01:23 PM

Troupez wrote:
I took about a 5 month break from EQII due to some RL issues. When I left the game I had a full suit of Handcrafted armor, jewelry, etc... This equipment worked very well so I didn't spend time harvesting rares because I play the game for fun and do not consider clicking nodes for 4 hours to be much fun. When I returned I noticed everyone running around in Legendary crafted, ebon and cobalt, and was like [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]. I hopped in a group with my handcrafted [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] and got pummeled. I mean I felt like I was playing a Mage. After a few instances like that one I decided to bite the bullet and harvest. I have full legendary now and am finally able to tank somewhat effectivly. Since many of the Guardians in this forum probably play alts and so many other tank classes post here I would like to ask a couple of questions. Is this a problem for the avoidance tanks also? Are they forced to harvest countless hours as well? The life of a plate tank is very expensive now and very unfulfilling.

No brawlers can get by fine in treasured/handcrafted and yes plate tanks MUST equip in legendary to equal them.

Dovifat · 11-09-2005, 02:59 PM

Brawlers are just as equipment reliant as every other tank. Leather is however the cheapest of all rares, so they do have a much easier time getting a set of legendary armor.

Belgor · 11-09-2005, 03:30 PM

Dovifat wrote:
Brawlers are just as equipment reliant as every other tank. Leather is however the cheapest of all rares, so they do have a much easier time getting a set of legendary armor.

T6 pelt costs more than cobalt on my server. The cheapest rare is by far wood rare.

Galeo1 · 11-09-2005, 07:04 PM

Dovifat wrote:
Brawlers are just as equipment reliant as every other tank. Leather is however the cheapest of all rares, so they do have a much easier time getting a set of legendary armor.

Perhaps T5 armor, but T6 rares are equal or more expensive than cobalt.

Fact is more people harvest rocks than anything else so the supply is greater.

Starwind · 11-09-2005, 08:08 PM

Yeah, this has been a major turn-off for me aswell. It's pretty freaking lame that you -need- to be a rich SOB, or spend hours upon hours farming just to get half-assedly decent gear. It's BS. It goes back to something I said on the SK forums; I like playing games. Grinding for hours on end, or having to work my tail off just to not be dirt poor isn't my idea of fun, and I play games to have fun. All that seems more like work than a game to me.

Message Edited by Starwind87 on 11-09-2005 09:16 AM

Veshtan · 11-09-2005, 08:10 PM

Galeo1 wrote:

Dovifat wrote:
Brawlers are just as equipment reliant as every other tank. Leather is however the cheapest of all rares, so they do have a much easier time getting a set of legendary armor.

Perhaps T5 armor, but T6 rares are equal or more expensive than cobalt.

Fact is more people harvest rocks than anything else so the supply is greater.

I would agree with Galeo, Ore is harvested a lot more then the other nodes, but that also makes it much easier for someone to find those pelt producing nodes when they want them since fewer people are harvesting from them. Doesn't change the fact that there is probably more cobalt out there since it is harvested for so much.

That being said, on my server, Cobalt is still sold for 1-2pp more a piece then any cloth or leather T6 rare.

Message Edited by Veshtan on 11-09-2005 07:11 AM

Wasuna · 11-09-2005, 10:26 PM

Dovifat wrote:
Brawlers are just as equipment reliant as every other tank. Leather is however the cheapest of all rares, so they do have a much easier time getting a set of legendary armor.

Incorrect. Avoidance tanks have inate avoidance and inate block without a shield. Now, Avoidance can be seriously boosted with good equipment but we must be clear here. Without equipment Guardians have nothing and Avoidance tanks have maybe 25% of their tanking ability already.

Wasuna · 11-09-2005, 10:29 PM

I also hate to harvest all the time. I once went 8000 suscessful harvests (back when you only got three whacks at a node) without any form of rare. I posted this on the forum with the break down of everything I harvested.

Now I just do quests and work tradeskills to make money so I can just buy my rares. I only harvest for supplies for my tradeskills and if I get lucky and get a rare then I just saved some platnium.

Gaige · 11-09-2005, 11:29 PM

Wasuna wrote:
Incorrect. Avoidance tanks have inate avoidance and inate block without a shield. Now, Avoidance can be seriously boosted with good equipment but we must be clear here. Without equipment Guardians have nothing and Avoidance tanks have maybe 25% of their tanking ability already.

Brawlers also rely on mitigation and therefore also need to upgrade their equipment.

Ironmeow · 11-09-2005, 11:48 PM

im full t6 rare armor and jewlery except for my fbss, so no complaints here

Shizzirri · 11-10-2005, 12:06 AM

I've noticed a considerable difference in gear on my monk from legendary to the treasured/crafted, part of the thing about being a tank is you have to spend on gear where casters can kinda slack and push for stats rather than mitigation.

Dart · 11-10-2005, 03:43 AM

I think this is true for any tank really. Im already starting to bank cobalts, in the event Darton is ever revived. Although there is a hella thick coat of dust on his barbarian azz.

ToiletBomb · 11-10-2005, 01:29 PM

Gaige wrote:

Brawlers also rely on mitigation and therefore also need to upgrade their equipment.

Yes but the point is brawlers have the innate advantage. With nothing they are better because of just raw ability. Not sure how big a deal the difference is but that is the point. Guards rely on their mitigation much more and I agree it seems the mit isn't effective alone until the guardian (or any plate tank I suppose) is in the legendary gear. I personally noticed a huge difference (and was able to tank effectively) only after I upgraded at least half my armor (which was ebon before). Gear upgrades, simply put, are a lot more noticeable now.

Unfortunately, you have to upgrade to legendary to be effective to the point you are worthwhile in a group.

What I really want to know is do brawlers have to be in legendary gear to be effective in a group?

Rienlos of Crushbone

51 Guardian

Message Edited by ToiletBomb on 11-10-2005 12:31 AM

Hend · 11-10-2005, 04:16 PM

Ironmeow wrote:

im full t6 rare armor and jewlery except for my fbss, so no complaints here

Well, so am I, and most of my CAs are adept III, but that doesn't prevent me from thinking it was a poor idea to turn EQ2 into a harvesting race.

I'm not in a raid guild, so harvesting is by far the most sensible thing I can do to gain equipment and wealth. When I go questing, I do it because it's an entertaining break from what I really should be doing, and that can't be a healthy thing for a game.

Vork, 53 guardian

ToiletBomb · 11-11-2005, 04:39 AM

I think you nailed it perfectly hendis.

The point is, why cant we be effective in the stuff we gain through adventuring. Why should I NEED to spend time harvesting just to work in a group. Thats total BS. I mean I don't mind noticing a difference in those that equip themselves accordingly, I think that is all well and good. But when you NEED to be in certain gear to be effective at all thats just [Removed for Content].

Aethane · 11-12-2005, 05:50 AM

ToiletBomb wrote:

I think you nailed it perfectly hendis.

The point is, why cant we be effective in the stuff we gain through adventuring. Why should I NEED to spend time harvesting just to work in a group. Thats total BS. I mean I don't mind noticing a difference in those that equip themselves accordingly, I think that is all well and good. But when you NEED to be in certain gear to be effective at all thats just [Removed for Content].

Basically Eq2 is smash rocks to have gear good enough to perform your role as a Guardian then if you want to upgrade anything you have to be in a guild that can raid and if you aren't, quit playing, there is nothing left for you. And then even if you are in a raid capable guild, you get that nice fabled armor and such then BAM, expansion comes out and instead of the reward being you can skip smashing rocks you get to smash some more rocks. Basically there is NO reason to ever fight, they won't drop anything you would use and those that do are raid only.

In my opinion Fabled should be the absolute best, treasured should become legendary and rarer, next up rare harvests EQUAL to treasured( the new legendary) then maybe we'd have a game with a purpose and goal to it. Right now its just smash rocks, level, quit.

11-09-2005, 01:18 PM	#1
Troupez Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 41	I took about a 5 month break from EQII due to some RL issues. When I left the game I had a full suit of Handcrafted armor, jewelry, etc... This equipment worked very well so I didn't spend time harvesting rares because I play the game for fun and do not consider clicking nodes for 4 hours to be much fun. When I returned I noticed everyone running around in Legendary crafted, ebon and cobalt, and was like [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]. I hopped in a group with my handcrafted [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] and got pummeled. I mean I felt like I was playing a Mage. After a few instances like that one I decided to bite the bullet and harvest. I have full legendary now and am finally able to tank somewhat effectivly. Since many of the Guardians in this forum probably play alts and so many other fighter classes post here I would like to ask a couple of questions. Is this a problem for the avoidance tanks also? Are they forced to harvest countless hours as well? The life of a plate tank is very expensive now and very unfulfilling. Message Edited by Troupez on 11-09-2005 03:25 AM Message Edited by Troupez on 11-09-2005 03:26 AM __________________ Troupe The Iksar Guardian - Member of Inquisition - Innothule Server "It is better to be challenged mentally than it is to be mentally challenged"

11-09-2005, 01:23 PM	#2
Aethane Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 98	Troupez wrote: I took about a 5 month break from EQII due to some RL issues. When I left the game I had a full suit of Handcrafted armor, jewelry, etc... This equipment worked very well so I didn't spend time harvesting rares because I play the game for fun and do not consider clicking nodes for 4 hours to be much fun. When I returned I noticed everyone running around in Legendary crafted, ebon and cobalt, and was like [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]. I hopped in a group with my handcrafted [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] and got pummeled. I mean I felt like I was playing a Mage. After a few instances like that one I decided to bite the bullet and harvest. I have full legendary now and am finally able to tank somewhat effectivly. Since many of the Guardians in this forum probably play alts and so many other tank classes post here I would like to ask a couple of questions. Is this a problem for the avoidance tanks also? Are they forced to harvest countless hours as well? The life of a plate tank is very expensive now and very unfulfilling. No brawlers can get by fine in treasured/handcrafted and yes plate tanks MUST equip in legendary to equal them. __________________

11-09-2005, 03:30 PM	#4
Belgor Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 180	Dovifat wrote: Brawlers are just as equipment reliant as every other tank. Leather is however the cheapest of all rares, so they do have a much easier time getting a set of legendary armor. T6 pelt costs more than cobalt on my server. The cheapest rare is by far wood rare.

11-09-2005, 07:04 PM	#5
Galeo1 Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 30	Dovifat wrote: Brawlers are just as equipment reliant as every other tank. Leather is however the cheapest of all rares, so they do have a much easier time getting a set of legendary armor. Perhaps T5 armor, but T6 rares are equal or more expensive than cobalt. Fact is more people harvest rocks than anything else so the supply is greater.

11-09-2005, 08:08 PM	#6
Starwind Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: The Truth and Reconciliation; High Orbit - Sigma Octanus IV Posts: 29	Yeah, this has been a major turn-off for me aswell. It's pretty freaking lame that you -need- to be a rich SOB, or spend hours upon hours farming just to get half-assedly decent gear. It's BS. It goes back to something I said on the SK forums; I like playing games. Grinding for hours on end, or having to work my tail off just to not be dirt poor isn't my idea of fun, and I play games to have fun. All that seems more like work than a game to me. Message Edited by Starwind87 on 11-09-2005 09:16 AM __________________ "You called down the Thunder, now reap the whirlwind." "Alcohol, my permanent accessory. Alcohol, a party-time neccessity. Alcohol, alternative to feelin' like yourself. Oh Alcohol, I still drink to your health." "Forget the godd*** lattee's, screw the rasberry icetea. A Malibu and Coke for you, a G and T for me."

11-09-2005, 02:59 PM	#3
Dovifat Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 171	Brawlers are just as equipment reliant as every other tank. Leather is however the cheapest of all rares, so they do have a much easier time getting a set of legendary armor.

11-09-2005, 08:10 PM	#7
Veshtan Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 54	Galeo1 wrote: Dovifat wrote: Brawlers are just as equipment reliant as every other tank. Leather is however the cheapest of all rares, so they do have a much easier time getting a set of legendary armor. Perhaps T5 armor, but T6 rares are equal or more expensive than cobalt. Fact is more people harvest rocks than anything else so the supply is greater. I would agree with Galeo, Ore is harvested a lot more then the other nodes, but that also makes it much easier for someone to find those pelt producing nodes when they want them since fewer people are harvesting from them. Doesn't change the fact that there is probably more cobalt out there since it is harvested for so much. That being said, on my server, Cobalt is still sold for 1-2pp more a piece then any cloth or leather T6 rare. Message Edited by Veshtan on 11-09-2005 07:11 AM

11-09-2005, 10:26 PM	#8
Wasuna Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,222	Dovifat wrote: Brawlers are just as equipment reliant as every other tank. Leather is however the cheapest of all rares, so they do have a much easier time getting a set of legendary armor. Incorrect. Avoidance tanks have inate avoidance and inate block without a shield. Now, Avoidance can be seriously boosted with good equipment but we must be clear here. Without equipment Guardians have nothing and Avoidance tanks have maybe 25% of their tanking ability already. __________________ The definition of Crazy is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

11-09-2005, 10:29 PM	#9
Wasuna Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,222	I also hate to harvest all the time. I once went 8000 suscessful harvests (back when you only got three whacks at a node) without any form of rare. I posted this on the forum with the break down of everything I harvested. Now I just do quests and work tradeskills to make money so I can just buy my rares. I only harvest for supplies for my tradeskills and if I get lucky and get a rare then I just saved some platnium. __________________ The definition of Crazy is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

11-09-2005, 11:29 PM	#10
Gaige Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Arizona Posts: 9,500	Wasuna wrote: Incorrect. Avoidance tanks have inate avoidance and inate block without a shield. Now, Avoidance can be seriously boosted with good equipment but we must be clear here. Without equipment Guardians have nothing and Avoidance tanks have maybe 25% of their tanking ability already. Brawlers also rely on mitigation and therefore also need to upgrade their equipment. __________________

11-09-2005, 11:48 PM	#11
Ironmeow Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 175	im full t6 rare armor and jewlery except for my fbss, so no complaints here

11-10-2005, 12:06 AM	#12
Shizzirri Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 440	I've noticed a considerable difference in gear on my monk from legendary to the treasured/crafted, part of the thing about being a tank is you have to spend on gear where casters can kinda slack and push for stats rather than mitigation.

11-10-2005, 03:43 AM	#13
Dart Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 297	I think this is true for any tank really. Im already starting to bank cobalts, in the event Darton is ever revived. Although there is a hella thick coat of dust on his barbarian azz. __________________ Phinny - 68th Warlock of Permafrost Thunderfoot - 70th Bruiser Permafrost You can't expect to wield supreme executive power just because some watery tart threw a sword at you!" -Monty Python's Holy Grail-

11-10-2005, 01:29 PM	#14
ToiletBomb Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 54	Gaige wrote: Brawlers also rely on mitigation and therefore also need to upgrade their equipment. Yes but the point is brawlers have the innate advantage. With nothing they are better because of just raw ability. Not sure how big a deal the difference is but that is the point. Guards rely on their mitigation much more and I agree it seems the mit isn't effective alone until the guardian (or any plate tank I suppose) is in the legendary gear. I personally noticed a huge difference (and was able to tank effectively) only after I upgraded at least half my armor (which was ebon before). Gear upgrades, simply put, are a lot more noticeable now. Unfortunately, you have to upgrade to legendary to be effective to the point you are worthwhile in a group. What I really want to know is do brawlers have to be in legendary gear to be effective in a group? Rienlos of Crushbone 51 Guardian Message Edited by ToiletBomb on 11-10-2005 12:31 AM __________________ Rienlos T'Quost 60 Dark Elf Guardian Crushbone

11-10-2005, 04:16 PM	#15
Hend General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 54	Ironmeow wrote: im full t6 rare armor and jewlery except for my fbss, so no complaints here Well, so am I, and most of my CAs are adept III, but that doesn't prevent me from thinking it was a poor idea to turn EQ2 into a harvesting race. I'm not in a raid guild, so harvesting is by far the most sensible thing I can do to gain equipment and wealth. When I go questing, I do it because it's an entertaining break from what I really should be doing, and that can't be a healthy thing for a game. Vork, 53 guardian

11-11-2005, 04:39 AM	#16
ToiletBomb Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 54	I think you nailed it perfectly hendis. The point is, why cant we be effective in the stuff we gain through adventuring. Why should I NEED to spend time harvesting just to work in a group. Thats total BS. I mean I don't mind noticing a difference in those that equip themselves accordingly, I think that is all well and good. But when you NEED to be in certain gear to be effective at all thats just [Removed for Content]. __________________ Rienlos T'Quost 60 Dark Elf Guardian Crushbone

11-12-2005, 05:50 AM	#17
Aethane Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 98	ToiletBomb wrote: I think you nailed it perfectly hendis. The point is, why cant we be effective in the stuff we gain through adventuring. Why should I NEED to spend time harvesting just to work in a group. Thats total BS. I mean I don't mind noticing a difference in those that equip themselves accordingly, I think that is all well and good. But when you NEED to be in certain gear to be effective at all thats just [Removed for Content]. Basically Eq2 is smash rocks to have gear good enough to perform your role as a Guardian then if you want to upgrade anything you have to be in a guild that can raid and if you aren't, quit playing, there is nothing left for you. And then even if you are in a raid capable guild, you get that nice fabled armor and such then BAM, expansion comes out and instead of the reward being you can skip smashing rocks you get to smash some more rocks. Basically there is NO reason to ever fight, they won't drop anything you would use and those that do are raid only. In my opinion Fabled should be the absolute best, treasured should become legendary and rarer, next up rare harvests EQUAL to treasured( the new legendary) then maybe we'd have a game with a purpose and goal to it. Right now its just smash rocks, level, quit. __________________