Conserving/maximising power for epic encounters

lostsandman · 05-13-2005, 03:58 PM

Conserving/maximising power for epic encounters

Thanks guys for some of the advice from other threads about Mt'e epic.

I was Mt the epic just outside sol eye (for saving soles HQ) last night with 2 groups.

I used Desperate Rush with HTL and my other usual taunts and buffs. I didn't loose agro at all.

During the fight i was running out of power(even after using manastone) and so was the wizard in my group.

But we had 3 healers (50 warden, 50 Templar and 49 defiler) and the warden was at full power and the Templar had plenty left.

So i asked the wizard to give me some power and she said "I am not your battery m8". So i didn't ask again.

Normally i won't have asked the wizard for power. But in the situation i though the healers are at full power
so if she gave me power they can heal her. So in effect i am using the the healers power.

I know that getting power form the wizard is not very efficient but so is using manastone.

I regularly group with the said wizard and we are good friends.

The reason why i posted this here is to find some more info form you guys so that we can plan better.

1) Is it ok to get power from wizards?
2) Do you guys find yourself doing this? (assuming no chanter or conjurers in group)
3) One of implicit assumption was that its more important for me to hold agro than the wizard to do dps. is this correct?
4) How many of you run of power very quickly? i was out of power and the mob still had 35% hp left.

One of the mistake i made during the fight was that i should have used manstone right from the beginning
so i would have taken more power from the healers evenly..... Warden and Templar can easily heal 600hp with little or no power cost to them.

But i was bit scared(!) of getting spikes damage form the mob so i didn't use manstone right at the beginning.

I would greatly appreciate any help/advice on how ot maximise/save power for epic fights.

Izudin · 05-13-2005, 04:24 PM

1) Yes. Power transfer is a part of the job description of all mages. If that happens via breeze (chanters), power stones (summoners) or direct transfer (sorcerers) doesn't matter. Wizards also have a nice buff line that gives you power whenever you're hit, not sure how effective it is however. Just don't be aggressive about it SMILEY

Remind the wizard that it helps you to do your job and ensures the safety of all raid members. 3) It depends, but...if the wizard ends the fight with power left, and the tank is oop...then something's wrong.

Pin StNeedl · 05-13-2005, 04:31 PM

1) Yes it's okay. Keeping the MT alive with the aggro glue to him is THE priority in virtually all raids (and most other cases too). If you're low on power and ned more to keep taunting, then yes, the Wizard should miss-out on his 1-2k damage that round and give it to you.

2) Rarely - but I'm a (MT) Berserker so I hold aggro differently to how a Guardian would (and almost always have an Illusionist with a Master I of Insight). I only tend to run oop if the raid mob has a hefty power drain, and then I'll sometimes need a feed to recast buffs.

3) That's correct for any mob which would quickly kill the rest of the raid - e.g. that 50^^^ would 1-shot the Wizard if he peeled you.

4) See 2... But as a general rule, try to pace yourself throughout the fight and keep your powerbar higher than the mob's health bar and you shouldn't have a problem.

Banwar · 05-13-2005, 08:26 PM

Your friend is selfish, and the responce he gave was pretty rude. Consider finding a new hunting partner.

Grond · 05-13-2005, 09:28 PM

If he isn't your battery then you don't have to be his meat shield. A good group is about working together, and if he isn't making the best use of his skills then he is worthless to you.

Grondax Ix'Thania of the Shard

Master of Genesis on the Highkeep Server

Level 50 Guardian / Level 50 Woodworker

Arsen · 05-13-2005, 11:12 PM

Unless the wizzy is ok with tanking, they should be willing to feed you some power once in a while! That being said though, it does sound like you might have went a little overboard with the taunting at first. If the healers had lots of power, and the mage had power - who were you really keeping aggro from? Firing up desperate rush probably wasn't necessary with 3 healers since you probably figure to have a long fight where you don't have enough DPS to end the encounter quickly. A good strategy for the entire group as mentioned below is to have everyone try to keep their power about the same level as the targets health... if they do that, and you do that primarily focusing on taunting, then you should have no problem keeping things under control and your group will come pretty close to maxamizing their dps potential.

Banditman · 05-14-2005, 01:55 AM

Unless you have someone just going ape*(@# with the DPS you should try to match your power bar to the mob's HP bar. Pace your use of power so that you run out just as the mob dies. Your DPS people should be doing the same thing. Nice steady kill is the best way to go.

lostsandman · 05-14-2005, 05:35 PM

"That being said though, it does sound like you might have went a little overboard with the taunting at first. If the healers had lots of power, and the mage had power - who were you really keeping aggro from?"

I do think i went overboard i was taunting and buffing no stop. The mage did not have power. He was using his hp to make power. So he was also very low on power.

But my theory was to make the healers work bit more since only one of the healer was running very low on power (49 defiler) . The other 2 healers had plenty of power (50 warden and templar). Liek i said before the lvl 50 heals both the warden and templars get hardly uses any power to them. The only downside is it roots them but provided i hold agro its a non issue.

You see sometimes i loose agro to the said wizard usually half way throug the fight or nearly at the end of it. The wizard had all his big dps spells at adp3. Only yesterday i got defane to adp3 (all lower taunts are adp3). So i din't want to loose so i spamed taunts no stop.....

When something goes wrong i work frm the assumption that i made a mistake and try to find the soloution from there.......

I guess even thoug we are nearly 50 (i am 48, wiz 49) we still have lot to learn.....

Sinadi · 05-14-2005, 08:17 PM

Those level 50 templar/warden heals don't root, they stun. Can't do anything at all while they're active. Also keep in mind that the warden one gives the aggro to the warden, not to you. You don't really need the 50 spells though, 600 points healed is pretty trivial and can be covered with a regular regen that won't pull aggro too badly. Next time though, tell the wizard to give you power or *he* can tank. I'd have just zoned the mob at that point heh.

Aren · 05-14-2005, 11:14 PM

If power is a problem in the scenario you posted originally, drop Desperate Rush, it'll save you lots of power for taunts.

Also, if any wizard made that comment to me, I would never taunt a mob that he peeled aggro from. And when he told me to taunt, I'd say "I'm not your tank m8"

In our guild, our wizzies and warlocks seem to pump tanks and healers without being asked, not only does this keep the raid running smooth, but it keeps the nukers from overnuking and peeling aggro.

Noah · 05-15-2005, 12:59 AM

This is not an encounter you should use D-Rush / HTL. The increase haste and power degeneration, coupled with HTL proc cost will wipe you out of power very fast. I would have stuck with normal deafen, Vstrike, slates... etc etc. D-Rush HTL is really used for a blitz raid/fight where you need a mob dead ASAP and you have the DPS classes to back that up.

As far as the wizard not giving you power... lettem learn. Once you get into the large raids, you need that power transfering (pre power regen items etc) or the mob is going to ping pong kill your dps. 1 person feeding you could be the different to keep agro and ensure all the OTHER dps stay up and doing their job. So... 200dps or 15000dps... If they dont like it, the tune will change after a few raids and things go bad cause you cant taunt!!

G'luck!

Soapfiend · 05-16-2005, 12:18 PM

well put NOAH could have said it better myself!

Aaliamz · 05-16-2005, 12:37 PM

And pop on your GEBs. :smileywink:

lostsandman · 05-16-2005, 04:18 PM

I do realise now (like lots of things!) that there was no need for HtL and desperate rush for this encounter.
I reason why i did that was , the mob can depop within 15 mins of you agroign it. But we killed it in less than 5 mins.

Like you guys said i also think i should have got the power from the wizard....

we will work something out SMILEY

Thank guys for your advice. I really have to say that i learned lots of things form these forums

05-13-2005, 04:24 PM	#2
Izudin Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 59	1) Yes. Power transfer is a part of the job description of all mages. If that happens via breeze (chanters), power stones (summoners) or direct transfer (sorcerers) doesn't matter. Wizards also have a nice buff line that gives you power whenever you're hit, not sure how effective it is however. Just don't be aggressive about it Remind the wizard that it helps you to do your job and ensures the safety of all raid members. 3) It depends, but...if the wizard ends the fight with power left, and the tank is oop...then something's wrong. __________________ "Lets have a drink and forget that we ever met!"

05-13-2005, 11:12 PM	#6
Arsen Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 158	Unless the wizzy is ok with tanking, they should be willing to feed you some power once in a while! That being said though, it does sound like you might have went a little overboard with the taunting at first. If the healers had lots of power, and the mage had power - who were you really keeping aggro from? Firing up desperate rush probably wasn't necessary with 3 healers since you probably figure to have a long fight where you don't have enough DPS to end the encounter quickly. A good strategy for the entire group as mentioned below is to have everyone try to keep their power about the same level as the targets health... if they do that, and you do that primarily focusing on taunting, then you should have no problem keeping things under control and your group will come pretty close to maxamizing their dps potential. __________________ Let's keep the discussion out of the realm of the absurd. - SOELegal

05-14-2005, 01:55 AM	#7
Banditman Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,459	Unless you have someone just going ape*(@# with the DPS you should try to match your power bar to the mob's HP bar. Pace your use of power so that you run out just as the mob dies. Your DPS people should be doing the same thing. Nice steady kill is the best way to go. __________________

05-14-2005, 11:14 PM	#10
Aren Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 88	If power is a problem in the scenario you posted originally, drop Desperate Rush, it'll save you lots of power for taunts. Also, if any wizard made that comment to me, I would never taunt a mob that he peeled aggro from. And when he told me to taunt, I'd say "I'm not your tank m8" In our guild, our wizzies and warlocks seem to pump tanks and healers without being asked, not only does this keep the raid running smooth, but it keeps the nukers from overnuking and peeling aggro. __________________

05-16-2005, 12:18 PM	#12
Soapfiend Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 11	well put NOAH could have said it better myself! __________________ When in Doubt! Knockem Out!!

05-13-2005, 03:58 PM	#1
lostsandman Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 188	Conserving/maximising power for epic encounters Thanks guys for some of the advice from other threads about Mt'e epic. I was Mt the epic just outside sol eye (for saving soles HQ) last night with 2 groups. I used Desperate Rush with HTL and my other usual taunts and buffs. I didn't loose agro at all. During the fight i was running out of power(even after using manastone) and so was the wizard in my group. But we had 3 healers (50 warden, 50 Templar and 49 defiler) and the warden was at full power and the Templar had plenty left. So i asked the wizard to give me some power and she said "I am not your battery m8". So i didn't ask again. Normally i won't have asked the wizard for power. But in the situation i though the healers are at full power so if she gave me power they can heal her. So in effect i am using the the healers power. I know that getting power form the wizard is not very efficient but so is using manastone. I regularly group with the said wizard and we are good friends. The reason why i posted this here is to find some more info form you guys so that we can plan better. 1) Is it ok to get power from wizards? 2) Do you guys find yourself doing this? (assuming no chanter or conjurers in group) 3) One of implicit assumption was that its more important for me to hold agro than the wizard to do dps. is this correct? 4) How many of you run of power very quickly? i was out of power and the mob still had 35% hp left. One of the mistake i made during the fight was that i should have used manstone right from the beginning so i would have taken more power from the healers evenly..... Warden and Templar can easily heal 600hp with little or no power cost to them. But i was bit scared(!) of getting spikes damage form the mob so i didn't use manstone right at the beginning. I would greatly appreciate any help/advice on how ot maximise/save power for epic fights.

05-13-2005, 04:31 PM	#3
Pin StNeedl General Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 251	1) Yes it's okay. Keeping the MT alive with the aggro glue to him is THE priority in virtually all raids (and most other cases too). If you're low on power and ned more to keep taunting, then yes, the Wizard should miss-out on his 1-2k damage that round and give it to you. 2) Rarely - but I'm a (MT) Berserker so I hold aggro differently to how a Guardian would (and almost always have an Illusionist with a Master I of Insight). I only tend to run oop if the raid mob has a hefty power drain, and then I'll sometimes need a feed to recast buffs. 3) That's correct for any mob which would quickly kill the rest of the raid - e.g. that 50^^^ would 1-shot the Wizard if he peeled you. 4) See 2... But as a general rule, try to pace yourself throughout the fight and keep your powerbar higher than the mob's health bar and you shouldn't have a problem.

05-13-2005, 08:26 PM	#4
Banwar Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 67	Your friend is selfish, and the responce he gave was pretty rude. Consider finding a new hunting partner.

05-13-2005, 09:28 PM	#5
Grond Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 90	If he isn't your battery then you don't have to be his meat shield. A good group is about working together, and if he isn't making the best use of his skills then he is worthless to you. Grondax Ix'Thania of the Shard Master of Genesis on the Highkeep Server Level 50 Guardian / Level 50 Woodworker

05-14-2005, 05:35 PM	#8
lostsandman Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 188	"That being said though, it does sound like you might have went a little overboard with the taunting at first. If the healers had lots of power, and the mage had power - who were you really keeping aggro from?" I do think i went overboard i was taunting and buffing no stop. The mage did not have power. He was using his hp to make power. So he was also very low on power. But my theory was to make the healers work bit more since only one of the healer was running very low on power (49 defiler) . The other 2 healers had plenty of power (50 warden and templar). Liek i said before the lvl 50 heals both the warden and templars get hardly uses any power to them. The only downside is it roots them but provided i hold agro its a non issue. You see sometimes i loose agro to the said wizard usually half way throug the fight or nearly at the end of it. The wizard had all his big dps spells at adp3. Only yesterday i got defane to adp3 (all lower taunts are adp3). So i din't want to loose so i spamed taunts no stop..... When something goes wrong i work frm the assumption that i made a mistake and try to find the soloution from there....... I guess even thoug we are nearly 50 (i am 48, wiz 49) we still have lot to learn.....

05-14-2005, 08:17 PM	#9
Sinadi General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 120	Those level 50 templar/warden heals don't root, they stun. Can't do anything at all while they're active. Also keep in mind that the warden one gives the aggro to the warden, not to you. You don't really need the 50 spells though, 600 points healed is pretty trivial and can be covered with a regular regen that won't pull aggro too badly. Next time though, tell the wizard to give you power or he can tank. I'd have just zoned the mob at that point heh.

05-15-2005, 12:59 AM	#11
Noah Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Willow Wood Posts: 229	This is not an encounter you should use D-Rush / HTL. The increase haste and power degeneration, coupled with HTL proc cost will wipe you out of power very fast. I would have stuck with normal deafen, Vstrike, slates... etc etc. D-Rush HTL is really used for a blitz raid/fight where you need a mob dead ASAP and you have the DPS classes to back that up. As far as the wizard not giving you power... lettem learn. Once you get into the large raids, you need that power transfering (pre power regen items etc) or the mob is going to ping pong kill your dps. 1 person feeding you could be the different to keep agro and ensure all the OTHER dps stay up and doing their job. So... 200dps or 15000dps... If they dont like it, the tune will change after a few raids and things go bad cause you cant taunt!! G'luck!

05-16-2005, 12:37 PM	#13
Aaliamz Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: UK Posts: 54	And pop on your GEBs. :smileywink: __________________ Aaliamzen

05-16-2005, 04:18 PM	#14
lostsandman Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 188	I do realise now (like lots of things!) that there was no need for HtL and desperate rush for this encounter. I reason why i did that was , the mob can depop within 15 mins of you agroign it. But we killed it in less than 5 mins. Like you guys said i also think i should have got the power from the wizard.... we will work something out Thank guys for your advice. I really have to say that i learned lots of things form these forums