Int and Wis -

Grond · 03-04-2005, 12:19 AM

Anyone have hard information on how these affect our ability to tank? I have been unable to gain much data on the issue. We're starting to see master drops that have alternate stats then the base stats. Like shields with Str and Sta. I'm wondering if completely ignoring int and wis will have a really bad effect on ones ability to tank.

Thanks

Grondax Ix'Thania

T5 Guardian and Woodworker of the Highkeep server, member of Genesis

TunaBoo · 03-04-2005, 01:27 AM

I have yet to see a conclusive parse OR a dev statement that either one did anything while tanking.This does not mean they don't matter, but I have seen no proof that they do, so I focus on tank stats.

Message Edited by TunaBoo on 03-03-2005 02:28 PM

Qwindar · 03-04-2005, 01:42 AM

Somebody said int and wis affected you magic type saves (or resists), but I don't buy it. When you start a new toon, you have a little bit of all five stats. These stats affect your starting hp, power, ac, and attack. If you notice, all your resists are still zero. Add gear that has +int and +wis, nothing will change. Add items that have +str, +sta, and +agi and you will see your carrying capacity and attack, hit points, and defence (respectively) all go up. Add items that have resists on them and your resist go up exactly what the stats are on the gear. That tells me that either int and wis have no effect on your abilities, they do but in a way that's not expected, or they do and it's not represented correctly. I remember a dev, during the development, say that every stat will be important, that's what would help the odd race/class combos be effecient. I don't see this yet. I'm not sure if it was changed for some reason, or if it's in and not showing properly. Remember how they "adjusted" the AC to show all the effects? That could be the case with resists now, they leave some of it not showing.

Triste · 03-04-2005, 01:48 AM

The claim was that devs said in beta that INT effects your parry skill. There was also an effect from WIS but I don't recall the specifics...

Demon · 03-04-2005, 02:01 AM

Qwindar wrote:
Somebody said int and wis affected you magic type saves (or resists), but I don't buy it. When you start a new toon, you have a little bit of all five stats. These stats affect your starting hp, power, ac, and attack. If you notice, all your resists are still zero. Add gear that has +int and +wis, nothing will change. Add items that have +str, +sta, and +agi and you will see your carrying capacity and attack, hit points, and defence (respectively) all go up. Add items that have resists on them and your resist go up exactly what the stats are on the gear. That tells me that either int and wis have no effect on your abilities, they do but in a way that's not expected, or they do and it's not represented correctly. I remember a dev, during the development, say that every stat will be important, that's what would help the odd race/class combos be effecient. I don't see this yet. I'm not sure if it was changed for some reason, or if it's in and not showing properly. Remember how they "adjusted" the AC to show all the effects? That could be the case with resists now, they leave some of it not showing.

I was the one who said that and i tried your test and ur right. No concrete proof like I said just going off almost any type of rpg way back to pnp dnd. Wouldn't suprise me if it actualy did and soe didnt change it with the ac values because no one was asking about it. MAybe if we get this thread going real goo we can get sa real answer on what int and wis do for a tnak.

Qwindar · 03-04-2005, 02:35 AM

Demonos, You may have said that, but unless you are my guild leader, you're not the person I was refering to.

Demon · 03-04-2005, 02:35 AM

ahh ok nope not a guild leader i thought you were talking about from another board lol.

Morriz · 03-04-2005, 06:51 AM

I very much doubt Int/Wis has any hidden effect on resists. Irrespective of other RPGs/MMO's/PNP RPGs, this game is largely (I didn't say totally) based on EQ1. The stats have very similar effects to those they had in EQ1.

English Da Gua · 03-04-2005, 08:09 AM

It has been stated here on the "what race is best" thread that int does in fact help you to parry more.

It has been stated on other forums that wis helps you to resist spells.

Like Tuna, I have yet to see hard data such as a parse on the actual affects of either stat.

Thing is, whether this is true or not, as a guardian, you would have to majorly overhaul a lot of your equipment to get the desired stat high enough to make a noticaeble difference. As I said on the race post, the guy who said something about int helping him parry was talking about an absurd amount of int added. Not an everyday amount. As I also said, a guardian dressed in all int caster gear, even if he now parries 75% more often, WHEN, not if, an attack lands, will hit harder then a baseball struck by Steriod Bonds, I mean Barry.

The stats most important right now, unless proven otherwise, are ac, hp, sta, agi and str. Not in that order neccessarily.

Message Edited by English Da Guard on 03-03-2005 07:09 PM

Ibis · 03-07-2005, 09:17 PM

beta boards the devs claimed that WIS helped increase your spell avoidance and INT helped overcome your opponent's spell avoidance (Note: we use combat arts which are dependent on STR and AGI not INT). So while WIS "MAY" have an effect for us the effect of INT is still to be debated for guardians (it actually does help those who use hostile SPELLS). Notice will you though, that items with INT have hidden HP whereas items without do not. Tundran War Axe has no STA, has +49hp, has +5int, and when worn you receive like 51-52 or some such HP. this can be repeated with other items that have INT on them such as your tower shield. Why INT gives hidden HPs I do not know. I've seen no direct augmentation of any skills through the use of INT gear either. I have neither proven nor believe anyone will be proving that WIS has any effect on spell avoidance any time soon.

Death4 · 03-07-2005, 09:41 PM

It's said that Intellegence effects parry and block rates, while Wisdom increases spell avoidance (Not the skill mind you, the chance it works). From my experience playing a few races of Warrior i've noticed some parry higher and block a lot more than others with the same gear, could just be coincedence though.

leatia · 03-08-2005, 06:19 AM

Humorously speaking- I personally believe rumors of INT/WIS improving resists or parry ability are just that- rumors. They are a way to make people feel better about tons of Heavy item that have INT/WIS on them when anyone that has played EQ1 would usually be standing there scratching their head.Honestly and seriously speaking- I don't think anyone truly knows if these rumors are true or not. Due to how streaky and inconsistent the RNG is for encounters, it'll take literally weeks of compiled data logged and parsed in order to see if any kind of trend exists, and us Guardians are usually too focused on "Me big meaty warrior- me thump big badz!" to take the time to do it. SMILEY

Qwindar · 03-11-2005, 03:30 AM

Ibishi wrote: Notice will you though, that items with INT have hidden HP whereas items without do not. Tundran War Axe has no STA, has +49hp, has +5int, and when worn you receive like 51-52 or some such HP. this can be repeated with other items that have INT on them such as your tower shield. Why INT gives hidden HPs I do not know.

I don't remember if it's a racial trait (I'm a troll) or another type of selection we get every few levels, but one of them is a 3% increase in either power or health. If a tank selects the 3% increase in health, then a +49 hp item will give roughly 51 or 52 hps, simply because of the effects of all the other gear.

Computing 1 · 03-11-2005, 01:43 PM

Pardon my newbieness but cant u click p to bring up ur persona then open up ur inventory then remove ur item and see what it changes ? and then put it back on to see what it changes again ? if im wrong let me know SMILEY

SageMarrow · 03-11-2005, 02:11 PM

the armors are done in blanket with all armors being similar in most ways per tier of armor.

they dont over power the gear for fighter and tank types - because overloading them in stats would also put them out of place in attack and stamina - etc- so one must use the items and accessories available to offset the armor that gives stats that arent needed. (unless they are ultra rare or raid or master chest drops ) and even those have a cookie cutter effect about them saying as though every helmet in game that isnt specially designed gives int and wis.

anyone else see one that does otherwise before??? crown on king whatever does - but thats quested too. and is very light armor - ??? go figure what does a caster need str and agility for?

just as just about all leg items provide str and whatever- and all hand items provide the same stats that vary in 1-2 points in a given stat- and the AC provided is usually 30pts difference from the lower substitute in the same given tier across the board.

they are just now starting to gear armor towards the individual classes. such as the D'morte armor with high wisdom thats openly for warden types saying as though its light armor but has high wisdom values on almost all the peices-

its coming - and the stats that matter will be provided to the classes that use them. im positive INT and WIS have a use - but not one that is of prodiminant use in question of tanks who need all the stats we can get in str and sta and agility as tanks as we can get.

Ibis · 03-14-2005, 04:54 AM

yea well 3% hp boost aside. I'm a human. i dont get one. i still get hidden HP from INT items. i'm also not stupid enough not to have tested it out on +HP items without int. those items do not give extra hidden HP.reading comprehension thank you

Qwindar · 03-14-2005, 06:33 AM

Ibishi wrote:yea well 3% hp boost aside. I'm a human. i dont get one. i still get hidden HP from INT items. i'm also not stupid enough not to have tested it out on +HP items without int. those items do not give extra hidden HP.reading comprehension thank you

Reading comprehension? Go back and read your statement I was replying to, then come tell me about reading comprehension. You never stated that you tried it with hp items that had no int. I never implied you were stupid, simply pointed out a fact you may have missed. Like I said in my post, I'm not sure if it's a racial trait or another trait, but there is a choice that provides 3% more hp or power. That 3% would explain the difference. If the test subject does not have that bonus, then my point was, well, pointless.

Spekt · 03-14-2005, 08:37 PM

There is another trait as well, at 22 I think, that gives hp/hp regen/power/power regen....that might be it?

03-04-2005, 01:27 AM	#2
TunaBoo Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,507	I have yet to see a conclusive parse OR a dev statement that either one did anything while tanking.This does not mean they don't matter, but I have seen no proof that they do, so I focus on tank stats. Message Edited by TunaBoo on 03-03-2005 02:28 PM __________________ www.spiralguild.com

03-04-2005, 02:01 AM	#5
Demon Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 88	Qwindar wrote: Somebody said int and wis affected you magic type saves (or resists), but I don't buy it. When you start a new toon, you have a little bit of all five stats. These stats affect your starting hp, power, ac, and attack. If you notice, all your resists are still zero. Add gear that has +int and +wis, nothing will change. Add items that have +str, +sta, and +agi and you will see your carrying capacity and attack, hit points, and defence (respectively) all go up. Add items that have resists on them and your resist go up exactly what the stats are on the gear. That tells me that either int and wis have no effect on your abilities, they do but in a way that's not expected, or they do and it's not represented correctly. I remember a dev, during the development, say that every stat will be important, that's what would help the odd race/class combos be effecient. I don't see this yet. I'm not sure if it was changed for some reason, or if it's in and not showing properly. Remember how they "adjusted" the AC to show all the effects? That could be the case with resists now, they leave some of it not showing. I was the one who said that and i tried your test and ur right. No concrete proof like I said just going off almost any type of rpg way back to pnp dnd. Wouldn't suprise me if it actualy did and soe didnt change it with the ac values because no one was asking about it. MAybe if we get this thread going real goo we can get sa real answer on what int and wis do for a tnak. __________________ We all got to die sometime it's just a matter of when and how.Personaly I would prefer to choose the how. What about you.

03-04-2005, 02:35 AM	#7
Demon Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 88	ahh ok nope not a guild leader i thought you were talking about from another board lol. __________________ We all got to die sometime it's just a matter of when and how.Personaly I would prefer to choose the how. What about you.

03-04-2005, 06:51 AM	#8
Morriz Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 83	I very much doubt Int/Wis has any hidden effect on resists. Irrespective of other RPGs/MMO's/PNP RPGs, this game is largely (I didn't say totally) based on EQ1. The stats have very similar effects to those they had in EQ1. __________________ Malkerith - Oasis's First Qeynosian Dark Elf Guardian. Morrizar - Oasis's First Dark Elf Monk - Level 36 and Retired. Guild Leader of Angelic Descent GMT+10 Australasian Timezone Guild

03-14-2005, 08:37 PM	#18
Spekt Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 35	There is another trait as well, at 22 I think, that gives hp/hp regen/power/power regen....that might be it? __________________

03-04-2005, 12:19 AM	#1
Grond Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 90	Anyone have hard information on how these affect our ability to tank? I have been unable to gain much data on the issue. We're starting to see master drops that have alternate stats then the base stats. Like shields with Str and Sta. I'm wondering if completely ignoring int and wis will have a really bad effect on ones ability to tank. Thanks Grondax Ix'Thania T5 Guardian and Woodworker of the Highkeep server, member of Genesis

03-04-2005, 01:42 AM	#3
Qwindar Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 65	Somebody said int and wis affected you magic type saves (or resists), but I don't buy it. When you start a new toon, you have a little bit of all five stats. These stats affect your starting hp, power, ac, and attack. If you notice, all your resists are still zero. Add gear that has +int and +wis, nothing will change. Add items that have +str, +sta, and +agi and you will see your carrying capacity and attack, hit points, and defence (respectively) all go up. Add items that have resists on them and your resist go up exactly what the stats are on the gear. That tells me that either int and wis have no effect on your abilities, they do but in a way that's not expected, or they do and it's not represented correctly. I remember a dev, during the development, say that every stat will be important, that's what would help the odd race/class combos be effecient. I don't see this yet. I'm not sure if it was changed for some reason, or if it's in and not showing properly. Remember how they "adjusted" the AC to show all the effects? That could be the case with resists now, they leave some of it not showing.

03-04-2005, 01:48 AM	#4
Triste Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2	The claim was that devs said in beta that INT effects your parry skill. There was also an effect from WIS but I don't recall the specifics...

03-04-2005, 08:09 AM	#9
English Da Gua Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 203	It has been stated here on the "what race is best" thread that int does in fact help you to parry more. It has been stated on other forums that wis helps you to resist spells. Like Tuna, I have yet to see hard data such as a parse on the actual affects of either stat. Thing is, whether this is true or not, as a guardian, you would have to majorly overhaul a lot of your equipment to get the desired stat high enough to make a noticaeble difference. As I said on the race post, the guy who said something about int helping him parry was talking about an absurd amount of int added. Not an everyday amount. As I also said, a guardian dressed in all int caster gear, even if he now parries 75% more often, WHEN, not if, an attack lands, will hit harder then a baseball struck by Steriod Bonds, I mean Barry. The stats most important right now, unless proven otherwise, are ac, hp, sta, agi and str. Not in that order neccessarily. Message Edited by English Da Guard on 03-03-2005 07:09 PM

03-07-2005, 09:17 PM	#10
Ibis General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 155	beta boards the devs claimed that WIS helped increase your spell avoidance and INT helped overcome your opponent's spell avoidance (Note: we use combat arts which are dependent on STR and AGI not INT). So while WIS "MAY" have an effect for us the effect of INT is still to be debated for guardians (it actually does help those who use hostile SPELLS). Notice will you though, that items with INT have hidden HP whereas items without do not. Tundran War Axe has no STA, has +49hp, has +5int, and when worn you receive like 51-52 or some such HP. this can be repeated with other items that have INT on them such as your tower shield. Why INT gives hidden HPs I do not know. I've seen no direct augmentation of any skills through the use of INT gear either. I have neither proven nor believe anyone will be proving that WIS has any effect on spell avoidance any time soon.

03-07-2005, 09:41 PM	#11
Death4 Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 37	It's said that Intellegence effects parry and block rates, while Wisdom increases spell avoidance (Not the skill mind you, the chance it works). From my experience playing a few races of Warrior i've noticed some parry higher and block a lot more than others with the same gear, could just be coincedence though.

03-08-2005, 06:19 AM	#12
leatia Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 70	Humorously speaking- I personally believe rumors of INT/WIS improving resists or parry ability are just that- rumors. They are a way to make people feel better about tons of Heavy item that have INT/WIS on them when anyone that has played EQ1 would usually be standing there scratching their head.Honestly and seriously speaking- I don't think anyone truly knows if these rumors are true or not. Due to how streaky and inconsistent the RNG is for encounters, it'll take literally weeks of compiled data logged and parsed in order to see if any kind of trend exists, and us Guardians are usually too focused on "Me big meaty warrior- me thump big badz!" to take the time to do it.

03-11-2005, 03:30 AM	#13
Qwindar Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 65	Ibishi wrote: Notice will you though, that items with INT have hidden HP whereas items without do not. Tundran War Axe has no STA, has +49hp, has +5int, and when worn you receive like 51-52 or some such HP. this can be repeated with other items that have INT on them such as your tower shield. Why INT gives hidden HPs I do not know. I don't remember if it's a racial trait (I'm a troll) or another type of selection we get every few levels, but one of them is a 3% increase in either power or health. If a tank selects the 3% increase in health, then a +49 hp item will give roughly 51 or 52 hps, simply because of the effects of all the other gear.

03-11-2005, 01:43 PM	#14
Computing 1 Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 8	Pardon my newbieness but cant u click p to bring up ur persona then open up ur inventory then remove ur item and see what it changes ? and then put it back on to see what it changes again ? if im wrong let me know

03-11-2005, 02:11 PM	#15
SageMarrow Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 958	the armors are done in blanket with all armors being similar in most ways per tier of armor. they dont over power the gear for fighter and tank types - because overloading them in stats would also put them out of place in attack and stamina - etc- so one must use the items and accessories available to offset the armor that gives stats that arent needed. (unless they are ultra rare or raid or master chest drops ) and even those have a cookie cutter effect about them saying as though every helmet in game that isnt specially designed gives int and wis. anyone else see one that does otherwise before??? crown on king whatever does - but thats quested too. and is very light armor - ??? go figure what does a caster need str and agility for? just as just about all leg items provide str and whatever- and all hand items provide the same stats that vary in 1-2 points in a given stat- and the AC provided is usually 30pts difference from the lower substitute in the same given tier across the board. they are just now starting to gear armor towards the individual classes. such as the D'morte armor with high wisdom thats openly for warden types saying as though its light armor but has high wisdom values on almost all the peices- its coming - and the stats that matter will be provided to the classes that use them. im positive INT and WIS have a use - but not one that is of prodiminant use in question of tanks who need all the stats we can get in str and sta and agility as tanks as we can get.

03-14-2005, 04:54 AM	#16
Ibis General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 155	yea well 3% hp boost aside. I'm a human. i dont get one. i still get hidden HP from INT items. i'm also not stupid enough not to have tested it out on +HP items without int. those items do not give extra hidden HP.reading comprehension thank you

03-14-2005, 06:33 AM	#17
Qwindar Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 65	Ibishi wrote:yea well 3% hp boost aside. I'm a human. i dont get one. i still get hidden HP from INT items. i'm also not stupid enough not to have tested it out on +HP items without int. those items do not give extra hidden HP.reading comprehension thank you Reading comprehension? Go back and read your statement I was replying to, then come tell me about reading comprehension. You never stated that you tried it with hp items that had no int. I never implied you were stupid, simply pointed out a fact you may have missed. Like I said in my post, I'm not sure if it's a racial trait or another trait, but there is a choice that provides 3% more hp or power. That 3% would explain the difference. If the test subject does not have that bonus, then my point was, well, pointless.