Warlock and Wizards

[Bloodcellz]

I play a Necromancer same lvl, same number of aa's, and full suit of gear is exactally the same tier as the set on my Warlock, yet my necromancer can usually pull about 20k more dps on single target mobs, and only drops 10k below the Lock on multiple mobs not to shabby but considering the necro is supposed to be T2 dps with the Rogue scouts and the Preditors and Pure casters are T1 it seems to be kinda screwed up. i like playing both classess but i like the warlock better but he will be "Collecting Dust" untill they get the issues worked out of them. I think the less protection you have the more dmg you should put out...necro's have pets locks don't ....locks should be way more dps...wizzards should be the only class out parsing a lock on single target no if ands and buts about it...NO class should outdamage a Warlock on Multi targets.

[Silzin]

One big problem i have with your hypothesis is that Predators are also T1 dps and should be able to compete with the Wiz and Lock on dps. 

I have seen some geared Locks absolutely destroy the parse on a good AoE fight and also keep up with the rest of the T1 on ST fights. 

[Lempo]

Bloodstormz@Butcherblock wrote:

 i like playing both classess but i like the warlock better but he will be "Collecting Dust" untill they get the issues worked out of them. I think the less protection you have the more dmg you should put out...necro's have pets locks don't ....locks should be way more dps...wizzards should be the only class out parsing a lock on single target no if ands and buts about it...NO class should outdamage a Warlock on Multi targets. 

Not specifying linked or unlinked mobs here clearly demonstrates that this is more of a player issue than a class issue, even with linked encounters 2-3 mobs a wizzy should hold their own, unlinked mobs the wizzy can be edging out and it is no cause for alarm. If you think Warlocks have all these issues and are going to 'shelve' yours because of this misconception you have then you obviously have not played a lock for any period of time, they have gotten plenty of attention lately.

This just sounds like a whine post really, what exactly do you think needs to be done?

[Nrgy]

When I play my Drunder geared Necro with other Raid geared Warlocks & Wizzy's I nearly always out parse them Single target, linked encounter and ZW.  That doesn't make the Necro class boss ... it says something about the players behind the other toons.  And in retrospect, if your Necro is outparsing your Warlock, it says something about the player behind that keyboard.

[Elskidor]

Yeah, sounds like you needa tweak your Lock's casting order/aa set up to me, but maybe your just better at playing your Necro than you are your Lock. 

[Necrotherian]

Bloodstormz@Butcherblock wrote:

I play a Necromancer same lvl, same number of aa's, and full suit of gear is exactally the same tier as the set on my Warlock, yet my necromancer can usually pull about 20k more dps on single target mobs, and only drops 10k below the Lock on multiple mobs not to shabby but considering the necro is supposed to be T2 dps with the Rogue scouts and the Preditors and Pure casters are T1 it seems to be kinda screwed up. i like playing both classess but i like the warlock better but he will be "Collecting Dust" untill they get the issues worked out of them. I think the less protection you have the more dmg you should put out...necro's have pets locks don't ....locks should be way more dps...wizzards should be the only class out parsing a lock on single target no if ands and buts about it...NO class should outdamage a Warlock on Multi targets.

You know, I've heard a lot of people claim that Summoners are supposed to be T2 DPS.  I've never seen that said by a red name.  Could someone please link the thread containing the post by a red name stating that Summoners are supposed to be T2 DPS?  (And for those that claim that it is only right that Summoners do less DPS than others because of their supposed utility, I say give every other mage class class a single target heal and a single target rez.  Because, let's face it, hearts and shards don't go near as far as they used to go.)

[NG23985_01]

The "red name" post you are looking for was probably posted back around the release of Desert of Flames. DoF coincided with the infamous combat revamp that laid the foundation for the current strengths and weaknesses of every class except Beastlord. I don't know if that post still exists or not because I don't know how far back these forums go. I remember roughly that T1 dps should be Wizard, Warlock, Assassin, and Ranger. T2 dps should be Conjuror, Necromancer, Swashbuckler, and Brigand. T3, while less talked about, included Dirge, Troubador, Illusionist and Coercer. Maybe somebody will find a link to that post.The reason for these differences in amount of dps offered is from the amount of utility offered to the group besides dps. Do not dismiss Summoner utility! I get quite irritated when a Summoner says he should be doing T1 dps, and seems to not realize just how much utility he has. Summoners have a TON more utility than true T1 dps classes. You probably don't believe me, so I will point out just how much utility summoners do have. Hearts & Shards are still highly valued because there are plenty of power drain fights and sometimes you don't have enough Enchanters to keep up. Both summoners have ET which massively ramps up the group's damage on linked encounters. Both summoners have access to a 10% group power conservation buff. Both summoners have pets that cast RAIDWIDE buffs that offer some pretty nice stat boosts. Do you know how many other classes have raidwide buffs? Not many. Call of the Hero gets used at least a couple times per raid because somebody went afk and is now behind, or got revived and spawned inside the wall or fell through the world. Necro's group stat buff is far beyond any other mage group stat buff.True T1 dps classes should retain their dps edge, because T2 dps classes still retain their superior utility. One significant reason for current dps class imbalance is that some T2 dps classes have gained massive boosts to their dps over the past couple of years, and yet they still retain superior utility. With increased dps, relative amount of utility offered should decrease. If you still think Summoners have no utility, go play a Wizard or Ranger and you'll see what it is really like to have no utility.

[Loldawg]

raidwide buff is the only utility worth much. shards don't do much in face of full on power drains. and they are certainly no where near as powerful as a warlock's dark siphoning which gives both power and health back to the group. wizards have ice lash which is way better than ET on single target burns. ET is nice for group encounters but that's it really. 

[Necrotherian]

NG23985_01 wrote:

The "red name" post you are looking for was probably posted back around the release of Desert of Flames. DoF coincided with the infamous combat revamp that laid the foundation for the current strengths and weaknesses of every class except Beastlord. I don't know if that post still exists or not because I don't know how far back these forums go. I remember roughly that T1 dps should be Wizard, Warlock, Assassin, and Ranger. T2 dps should be Conjuror, Necromancer, Swashbuckler, and Brigand. T3, while less talked about, included Dirge, Troubador, Illusionist and Coercer. Maybe somebody will find a link to that post.The reason for these differences in amount of dps offered is from the amount of utility offered to the group besides dps. Do not dismiss Summoner utility! I get quite irritated when a Summoner says he should be doing T1 dps, and seems to not realize just how much utility he has. Summoners have a TON more utility than true T1 dps classes. You probably don't believe me, so I will point out just how much utility summoners do have. Hearts & Shards are still highly valued because there are plenty of power drain fights and sometimes you don't have enough Enchanters to keep up. Both summoners have ET which massively ramps up the group's damage on linked encounters. Both summoners have access to a 10% group power conservation buff. Both summoners have pets that cast RAIDWIDE buffs that offer some pretty nice stat boosts. Do you know how many other classes have raidwide buffs? Not many. Call of the Hero gets used at least a couple times per raid because somebody went afk and is now behind, or got revived and spawned inside the wall or fell through the world. Necro's group stat buff is far beyond any other mage group stat buff.True T1 dps classes should retain their dps edge, because T2 dps classes still retain their superior utility. One significant reason for current dps class imbalance is that some T2 dps classes have gained massive boosts to their dps over the past couple of years, and yet they still retain superior utility. With increased dps, relative amount of utility offered should decrease. If you still think Summoners have no utility, go play a Wizard or Ranger and you'll see what it is really like to have no utility.

I've played my Necro as my main since 2006.  I'd prefer to allow the other mage classes a bit of utility.  I am getting tired of, when someone advertises for a DPS spot, being told, no....we meant T1 DPS, KTHXBAI.  O.o

And the last time anyone asked me for hearts outside of a group instance was VP.  (Admittedly, I haven't even been inside the DoV raid zones, but it isn't for lack of desire.)

[Banditman]

This again?  Really?