Shader 3.0 completely disabled?!?!?!?!

TralanaEQ · 12-20-2011, 12:18 PM

as per patch notes today...

Shader 3.0 has been disabled.

Our implementation of Shader 3.0 has had a spotty history since its debut last year. To be frank, it’s cool in some areas and it’s an eyesore in others. Worse, it occasionally crashes users completely. It’s going to take us quite a while to make it work they way it should, and until we get that work done, we don’t want users to be crashing while using it. So we are disabling this feature for now. We have every intention of bringing it back (or some version of a graphics shader improvement that’s even better than this one), but it won’t be soon. EQII still looks fantastic with the original shaders, and in fact, it often looks far better than when using Shader 3.0, so we hope this inconvenience will be very minor for you.

I SERIOUSLY beg to differ on this bolded statment. While EQ2 looks pretty good with the original shader it NEVER looks far better than when using 3.0. Not only does 3.0 look better it provides a significant performance bump to the original shader especially when running multiple clients on a single PC that improvment can be the difference between running settings that look pleasing to the eye, or having to turn performance down just to get reasonable framerates.

I completely understand you guys not having the resources to fix this right away. But disabling it should NOT be the answer. I know what zones are problematic for me (Drunder) and turn it off if I venture into them. The rest (majority) of my time spent in game I keep it on and enjoy improved graphics and a better frame rate.

Please give us the option back and re enable them. Have it noted that it is causing issues along with the note that you need to restart the client and you are working on them but it will not be fixed anytime soon. But for the love of god do NOT eliminate it entirely. The difference between 1.0 and 3.0 on a PC running 4 clients is just too significant. Having to turn them on and off for specific zones is not a deal breaker. Not having the option at all is.

Thank you,

T

genetix · 12-20-2011, 01:08 PM

Got to agree on there SM3.0 looks much better than game original ones, but the missing shadow effects and EQ2 uber failure to use GPU features is just sad. Also the original hyped 'point light shadows' is even bigger failure wonder when do they put that on ice too.

I know that SM3.0 was crashing a lot reported couple bugs myself in it.

Something I actually would like to see would be an .ini configuration of how manu CPU threads to use and close the memory leaks which game is making because of its design. O and yeah an 64-bit native executable would be nice, if you guys think using 'report freezed cannot utilize 3069MB RAM' messages down at x64 OS.

Gyee · 12-20-2011, 02:00 PM

Don't worry they're using all that delicious stations cash sale's money to good use to get it fixed. Just how long is the question.

Josgar · 12-20-2011, 03:05 PM

Shader 1.0 is barftastic. They shouldn't disable shaders 3.0. In all honesty, they shouldn't be touching it without releasing information on its replacement. Shader 1.0 is flat and ugly.

Makes me kinda wish I hadn't started playing again.

Valphine · 12-20-2011, 03:53 PM

DOnt agree, original graphic looks best, imo and without bugs.

TralanaEQ · 12-20-2011, 04:22 PM

DOnt agree, original graphic looks best, imo and without bugs.

That is wonderful for you that you think the original graphics look best... no one ever took away that option... use what you like, don't force others to use an old muddy shader that has 50% of the frame rate. Not only are the old shaders worse, but you have to lower the graphics settings even further to get similar frame rates.

I understand that shader 3.0 is buggy. Buggy however is NOT unusable. Give us the option back and fix them when you fix them.

TSR-JoshuaM · 12-20-2011, 04:23 PM

We do apologize for the inconvenience this will cause you but to clarify the Technical Support department is not responsible for changes to the game itself. That falls on the dev team. As these are the tech support forums your concerns may not be viewed by the appropriate parties. I do recommend taking this to a general discussion forum outside of support.

TralanaEQ · 12-20-2011, 04:25 PM

We do apologize for the inconvenience this will cause you but to clarify the Technical Support department is not responsible for changes to the game itself. That falls on the dev team. As these are the tech support forums your concerns may not be viewed by the appropriate parties. I do recommend taking this to a general discussion forum outside of support.

Can you move the thread then please Joshua? or can I just cut and paste into a new thread? Don't want to be accused of double posting.

Josgar · 12-20-2011, 04:27 PM

I created a thread in look and feel last night i think.

TralanaEQ · 12-20-2011, 04:40 PM

Thanks,

Copied and pasted my original comments to there. Hopefully someone actually looks and gives us back the option even if it's just through an .ini switch.

T

TSR-JoshuaM · 12-20-2011, 04:57 PM

TralanaEQ wrote:

We do apologize for the inconvenience this will cause you but to clarify the Technical Support department is not responsible for changes to the game itself. That falls on the dev team. As these are the tech support forums your concerns may not be viewed by the appropriate parties. I do recommend taking this to a general discussion forum outside of support.
Can you move the thread then please Joshua? or can I just cut and paste into a new thread? Don't want to be accused of double posting.

I can't. I'm not a moderator here, just a tech representative. I can lock and sticky! SMILEY

Peogia · 12-20-2011, 06:58 PM

I hope they implement shader 5 or higher

shader 3 was an eye soar with mega crashes blue screens driver crashes bugs and unfinished not to mention it wasn't truly shader 3 it was a hybrid of the original shader 1 mix not full 3

Ziplock9k · 12-21-2011, 08:00 AM

Peogia wrote:

I hope they implement shader 5 or higher
shader 3 was an eye soar with mega crashes blue screens driver crashes bugs and unfinished not to mention it wasn't truly shader 3 it was a hybrid of the original shader 1 mix not full 3

BSODs can only be caused by bad drivers or drivers that are incorrectly assuming something. As far as shaders 3 is concerned, some people liked them, some hated them.. so /meh, neither is 'right'. Don't be suprised if we never see anything beyond shader 1.0 again as all new resources are geared toward Everquest Next.

genetix · 12-21-2011, 08:10 AM

Ziplock9k wrote:

Peogia wrote:
I hope they implement shader 5 or higher
shader 3 was an eye soar with mega crashes blue screens driver crashes bugs and unfinished not to mention it wasn't truly shader 3 it was a hybrid of the original shader 1 mix not full 3
BSODs can only be caused by bad drivers or drivers that are incorrectly assuming something. As far as shaders 3 is concerned, some people liked them, some hated them.. so /meh, neither is 'right'. Don't be suprised if we never see anything beyond shader 1.0 again as all new resources are geared toward Everquest Next.

Yeah agree with this one totally.

We will never see SM3.0 again. Since they want to make money and best way to make it to make next EQ game or expansions for people to buy and to make expansion doesn't make sense to correct all earlier data with it so only way to actually get something to engine done is to build totally new engine and config that and try to tell people this is the new big thing.

The comment:

(or some version of a graphics shader improvement that’s even better than this one)

is also a fishing pole. Since A. you do not have resources to build anything greater and B. even if you would have resources you would never EVER build next model to current engine, heh.

Valphine · 12-22-2011, 01:32 PM

TralanaEQ wrote:

DOnt agree, original graphic looks best, imo and without bugs.
That is wonderful for you that you think the original graphics look best... no one ever took away that option... use what you like, don't force others to use an old muddy shader that has 50% of the frame rate. Not only are the old shaders worse, but you have to lower the graphics settings even further to get similar frame rates.
I understand that shader 3.0 is buggy. Buggy however is NOT unusable. Give us the option back and fix them when you fix them.

Errm "lol" I dont force anyone, I just had my opinion.

TralanaEQ · 12-22-2011, 07:55 PM

Errm "lol" I dont force anyone, I just had my opinion.

The don't force others comment wasnt directed at you. The thing is though if you prefer 1.0 you always could use it, even when they introduced 3.0. Now however there is no choice. There is only muddy old 1.0

12-20-2011, 02:00 PM	#3
Gyee Loremaster Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 46	Don't worry they're using all that delicious stations cash sale's money to good use to get it fixed. Just how long is the question. __________________ Freeport Server Representin' \| Takahops-Froglok Paladin \| Takarots - Troll Defiler

12-20-2011, 04:23 PM	#7
TSR-JoshuaM Customer Service Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 5,609	We do apologize for the inconvenience this will cause you but to clarify the Technical Support department is not responsible for changes to the game itself. That falls on the dev team. As these are the tech support forums your concerns may not be viewed by the appropriate parties. I do recommend taking this to a general discussion forum outside of support. __________________ TSR Joshua M. Technical Support Representative Sony Online Entertainment How to Contact Support: https://help.station.sony.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/28939 How to Create a DXDIAG/MSINFO https://help.station.sony.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/28973

12-20-2011, 04:57 PM	#11
TSR-JoshuaM Customer Service Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 5,609	TralanaEQ wrote: We do apologize for the inconvenience this will cause you but to clarify the Technical Support department is not responsible for changes to the game itself. That falls on the dev team. As these are the tech support forums your concerns may not be viewed by the appropriate parties. I do recommend taking this to a general discussion forum outside of support. Can you move the thread then please Joshua? or can I just cut and paste into a new thread? Don't want to be accused of double posting. I can't. I'm not a moderator here, just a tech representative. I can lock and sticky! __________________ TSR Joshua M. Technical Support Representative Sony Online Entertainment How to Contact Support: https://help.station.sony.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/28939 How to Create a DXDIAG/MSINFO https://help.station.sony.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/28973

12-20-2011, 06:58 PM	#12
Peogia Loremaster Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 928	I hope they implement shader 5 or higher shader 3 was an eye soar with mega crashes blue screens driver crashes bugs and unfinished not to mention it wasn't truly shader 3 it was a hybrid of the original shader 1 mix not full 3 __________________ The FBI is encouraging users to visit a website run by its security partner, http://www.dcwg.org , that will inform them whether they're infected and explain how to fix the problem. After July 9, infected users won't be able to connect to the Internet.

12-21-2011, 08:00 AM	#13
Ziplock9k Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 13	Peogia wrote: I hope they implement shader 5 or higher shader 3 was an eye soar with mega crashes blue screens driver crashes bugs and unfinished not to mention it wasn't truly shader 3 it was a hybrid of the original shader 1 mix not full 3 BSODs can only be caused by bad drivers or drivers that are incorrectly assuming something. As far as shaders 3 is concerned, some people liked them, some hated them.. so /meh, neither is 'right'. Don't be suprised if we never see anything beyond shader 1.0 again as all new resources are geared toward Everquest Next. __________________

12-20-2011, 12:18 PM	#1
TralanaEQ Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 59	as per patch notes today... Shader 3.0 has been disabled. Our implementation of Shader 3.0 has had a spotty history since its debut last year. To be frank, it’s cool in some areas and it’s an eyesore in others. Worse, it occasionally crashes users completely. It’s going to take us quite a while to make it work they way it should, and until we get that work done, we don’t want users to be crashing while using it. So we are disabling this feature for now. We have every intention of bringing it back (or some version of a graphics shader improvement that’s even better than this one), but it won’t be soon. EQII still looks fantastic with the original shaders, and in fact, it often looks far better than when using Shader 3.0, so we hope this inconvenience will be very minor for you. I SERIOUSLY beg to differ on this bolded statment. While EQ2 looks pretty good with the original shader it NEVER looks far better than when using 3.0. Not only does 3.0 look better it provides a significant performance bump to the original shader especially when running multiple clients on a single PC that improvment can be the difference between running settings that look pleasing to the eye, or having to turn performance down just to get reasonable framerates. I completely understand you guys not having the resources to fix this right away. But disabling it should NOT be the answer. I know what zones are problematic for me (Drunder) and turn it off if I venture into them. The rest (majority) of my time spent in game I keep it on and enjoy improved graphics and a better frame rate. Please give us the option back and re enable them. Have it noted that it is causing issues along with the note that you need to restart the client and you are working on them but it will not be fixed anytime soon. But for the love of god do NOT eliminate it entirely. The difference between 1.0 and 3.0 on a PC running 4 clients is just too significant. Having to turn them on and off for specific zones is not a deal breaker. Not having the option at all is. Thank you, T

12-20-2011, 01:08 PM	#2
genetix Champion Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 12	Got to agree on there SM3.0 looks much better than game original ones, but the missing shadow effects and EQ2 uber failure to use GPU features is just sad. Also the original hyped 'point light shadows' is even bigger failure wonder when do they put that on ice too. I know that SM3.0 was crashing a lot reported couple bugs myself in it. Something I actually would like to see would be an .ini configuration of how manu CPU threads to use and close the memory leaks which game is making because of its design. O and yeah an 64-bit native executable would be nice, if you guys think using 'report freezed cannot utilize 3069MB RAM' messages down at x64 OS.

12-20-2011, 03:05 PM	#4
Josgar Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,606	Shader 1.0 is barftastic. They shouldn't disable shaders 3.0. In all honesty, they shouldn't be touching it without releasing information on its replacement. Shader 1.0 is flat and ugly. Makes me kinda wish I hadn't started playing again.

12-20-2011, 03:53 PM	#5
Valphine Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 326	DOnt agree, original graphic looks best, imo and without bugs.

12-20-2011, 04:22 PM	#6
TralanaEQ Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 59	DOnt agree, original graphic looks best, imo and without bugs. That is wonderful for you that you think the original graphics look best... no one ever took away that option... use what you like, don't force others to use an old muddy shader that has 50% of the frame rate. Not only are the old shaders worse, but you have to lower the graphics settings even further to get similar frame rates. I understand that shader 3.0 is buggy. Buggy however is NOT unusable. Give us the option back and fix them when you fix them.

12-20-2011, 04:25 PM	#8
TralanaEQ Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 59	We do apologize for the inconvenience this will cause you but to clarify the Technical Support department is not responsible for changes to the game itself. That falls on the dev team. As these are the tech support forums your concerns may not be viewed by the appropriate parties. I do recommend taking this to a general discussion forum outside of support. Can you move the thread then please Joshua? or can I just cut and paste into a new thread? Don't want to be accused of double posting.

12-20-2011, 04:27 PM	#9
Josgar Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,606	I created a thread in look and feel last night i think.

12-20-2011, 04:40 PM	#10
TralanaEQ Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 59	Thanks, Copied and pasted my original comments to there. Hopefully someone actually looks and gives us back the option even if it's just through an .ini switch. T

12-21-2011, 08:10 AM	#14
genetix Champion Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 12	Ziplock9k wrote: Peogia wrote: I hope they implement shader 5 or higher shader 3 was an eye soar with mega crashes blue screens driver crashes bugs and unfinished not to mention it wasn't truly shader 3 it was a hybrid of the original shader 1 mix not full 3 BSODs can only be caused by bad drivers or drivers that are incorrectly assuming something. As far as shaders 3 is concerned, some people liked them, some hated them.. so /meh, neither is 'right'. Don't be suprised if we never see anything beyond shader 1.0 again as all new resources are geared toward Everquest Next. Yeah agree with this one totally. We will never see SM3.0 again. Since they want to make money and best way to make it to make next EQ game or expansions for people to buy and to make expansion doesn't make sense to correct all earlier data with it so only way to actually get something to engine done is to build totally new engine and config that and try to tell people this is the new big thing. The comment: (or some version of a graphics shader improvement that’s even better than this one) is also a fishing pole. Since A. you do not have resources to build anything greater and B. even if you would have resources you would never EVER build next model to current engine, heh.

12-22-2011, 01:32 PM	#15
Valphine Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 326	TralanaEQ wrote: DOnt agree, original graphic looks best, imo and without bugs. That is wonderful for you that you think the original graphics look best... no one ever took away that option... use what you like, don't force others to use an old muddy shader that has 50% of the frame rate. Not only are the old shaders worse, but you have to lower the graphics settings even further to get similar frame rates. I understand that shader 3.0 is buggy. Buggy however is NOT unusable. Give us the option back and fix them when you fix them. Errm "lol" I dont force anyone, I just had my opinion.

12-22-2011, 07:55 PM	#16
TralanaEQ Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 59	Errm "lol" I dont force anyone, I just had my opinion. The don't force others comment wasnt directed at you. The thing is though if you prefer 1.0 you always could use it, even when they introduced 3.0. Now however there is no choice. There is only muddy old 1.0