Why Free To Play does not really gives us subscribers more options

[Nijia]

Don't get me wrong: I think the recent news are GREAT and I wish it had been done sooner.

I think the new F2P pricing table is much better, with access to all races and classes for subscribers.

However there is still on glaring problem:

In EverQuest 2 nobody wants to log in after a break, as a F2P player, and find their character half naked because all the LEGENDARY/FABLED items are unusable and have been returned to bag slots.

This is a big deal breaker for me, as a subscriber.

The game remains pretty much PAY TO PLAY, because I can not do anything worthwhile with my character if I log while not being subscribed. And worse, it will actually mess up my character to log in when I am not subscribed.

Thus, there is no additional flexibility or options for a subscriber (seeing as the Marketplace is already on live).

Consider the spells: if you log in and were only able to cast Expert level of your spells, fine. THat's acceptable and does not stop me from enjoying the game until I decide to sub again for full benefits.

But logging in and finding that NONE of my gear is usable? No, thanks.

In Summary:

1) You need to find a way to unlock and legendary/fabled gear that the character ATTUNED while being subscribed and make sure that any equipped gear remains usable when the player logs in as Silver or Free.

2) Speaking of Silver, you need to make sure that anybody who pays a sub will never downgrade to Free, but only to Silver.

[Nijia]

PS: For those who don't know, there are "unlock" items available in the marketplace, which have a reasonable price (I think 150 SC for 5 charges), which let you unlock Master spells and Legendary/Fabled gear.

Those would in fact give me more flexibility/options when I come back to the game after a break, and I am no longer subscribed. It gives me another option to play my character at "Gold" level until the time I wish to pay a Sub again.

However it's not acceptable, and not practical, to expect a current subscriber to buy all those unlocks for the current gear that they can already use while being subbed, in the hope of having a fully playable character when one logs in later as Silver/Free.

[Nanyea]

I think the F2P people or at least the silver need limited access to broker to sell things and keep the broker economy healthy, maybe make their stuff 20% more expensive (but taking it out of the sellers end instead of the buyers)

[Zephanor]

You realize that right now as a subscriber if you aren't paying you aren't playing.  If you aren't paying then you aren't currently a subscriber, plain and simple.  You can't even log into the game.  If your subscription lapses as a Gold member you can at least still login and do something, certainly a whole heck of a lot more than how things currently and have always existed on non-EQ2X servers.  Seems to me like that's an improvement.

The only difference I see is that when you re-up your $15 a month (or whatever depending on your payment schedule) your legendary/fabled gear will be waiting in your bags.  Everything else will be just as it was.

However, while leveling up toons I found that I did fine using adept spells and treasured armor.  Do things go faster, better with higher tier items?  Of course!  But the game is still completely playable and for non-hardcore players that's quite fine.  Granted, once you high the higher expansions that changes a bit but it's still not totally out of the question.  You're not going to be raiding HM Vallon Zek as a freebie or silvie... and you shouldn't.

There needs to be an incentive to pay otherwise folks would find a way not to which would impact funding and tank any future development thus... kill the game.  I know some folks that had to leave due to finances who will be more than happy to be able to get back in free or pay $5 once for silver and keep touch with friends.  When things improve in the wallet they would pay for gold and pull their good gear back out of the bank.

[Cyliena]

Nanyea wrote:

I think the F2P people or at least the silver need limited access to broker to sell things and keep the broker economy healthy, maybe make their stuff 20% more expensive (but taking it out of the sellers end instead of the buyers)

Assuming they're sticking around, Free/Silver will have access to broker credits.

[arvydys]

Nijia@Vox wrote:

Don't get me wrong: I think the recent news are GREAT and I wish it had been done sooner.

I think the new F2P pricing table is much better, with access to all races and classes for subscribers.

However there is still on glaring problem:

In EverQuest 2 nobody wants to log in after a break, as a F2P player, and find their character half naked because all the LEGENDARY/FABLED items are unusable and have been returned to bag slots.

This is a big deal breaker for me, as a subscriber.

The game remains pretty much PAY TO PLAY, because I can not do anything worthwhile with my character if I log while not being subscribed. And worse, it will actually mess up my character to log in when I am not subscribed.

Thus, there is no additional flexibility or options for a subscriber (seeing as the Marketplace is already on live).

Consider the spells: if you log in and were only able to cast Expert level of your spells, fine. THat's acceptable and does not stop me from enjoying the game until I decide to sub again for full benefits.

But logging in and finding that NONE of my gear is usable? No, thanks.

In Summary:

1) You need to find a way to unlock and legendary/fabled gear that the character ATTUNED while being subscribed and make sure that any equipped gear remains usable when the player logs in as Silver or Free.

2) Speaking of Silver, you need to make sure that anybody who pays a sub will never downgrade to Free, but only to Silver.

I think 5 bucks will buy you enough unlockers to get your gear reattuned.  Just dont spend all the SC you earn while subbed and youll be ok

[Nijia]

I'm talking about a level 90 character, not starting new characters from level 1.

I'm not going to switch every equipment slot with Treasured just to fool around and not being able to run a random last expansion dungeon.

The incentive to pay, is simply there as soon as you get a new fabled/legendary drop that is an upgrade, a new master, more plats than you can handle, etc.

For me there is no incentive to log back in to check out new updates, when I find my level 90 character naked and unusable.

If I have to buy a bunch of Unlock items just to play the level 90 character to get a feel if I want to sub again, that defeats the purpose of being able to play for free.

I understand it's EQ2 and they don't have to do it like other games, I'm just saying for a level 90 character (ie. long time player), there is no flexibility in the pricing model. It's pay to play.

Being able to simply log in my character and say "hi" doesn't count as a flexibility.

Seeing as you always get new gear as you progress in the game I think they should really unlock any gear that is obtained while being subscribed.

All I'm saying is... looking at the F2P pricing models right now... I have flexibility in LOTRO. I know in LOTRO if I stop to pay and come back two months later, I will be able to ride my horse, I will be able to use all my five bags, because they were earned when I paid a subscription, and they remain usable.

There are enough limits in the game. All they're doing is making less people want to come back in and play.

[Frenzywolf]

Nijia@Vox wrote:

I'm talking about a level 90 character, not starting new characters from level 1.

I'm not going to switch every equipment slot with Treasured just to fool around and not being able to run a random last expansion dungeon.

The incentive to pay, is simply there as soon as you get a new fabled/legendary drop that is an upgrade, a new master, more plats than you can handle, etc.

For me there is no incentive to log back in to check out new updates, when I find my level 90 character naked and unusable.

If I have to buy a bunch of Unlock items just to play the level 90 character to get a feel if I want to sub again, that defeats the purpose of being able to play for free.

I understand it's EQ2 and they don't have to do it like other games, I'm just saying for a level 90 character (ie. long time player), there is no flexibility in the pricing model. It's pay to play.

Being able to simply log in my character and say "hi" doesn't count as a flexibility.

Seeing as you always get new gear as you progress in the game I think they should really unlock any gear that is obtained while being subscribed.

All I'm saying is... looking at the F2P pricing models right now... I have flexibility in LOTRO. I know in LOTRO if I stop to pay and come back two months later, I will be able to ride my horse, I will be able to use all my five bags, because they were earned when I paid a subscription, and they remain usable.

There are enough limits in the game. All they're doing is making less people want to come back in and play.

As I see it Nijia what incentive would you have to ever pay another subscription if you can just gear up your toon and then quit paying? I am not really all that happy to see F2P come to the normal servers, however it seems it is coming no matter how much I like or dislike it. There needs to be an incentive for players to continue to pay a sub.. otherwise how would it be fair for the rest of us that do pay a sub see someone playing for free have the same advantages as we do paying monthly? Will I be grouping with a level 90 F2P player? Nope! They are a disadvantage with gear and spells and trust me in the future when this is launched and the transition is done, I will be checking out gear before grouping with anyone. I see only treasured on that character I will be going the other way.

I feel how it is going down is at least fair. You pay nothing you don't get all the content period at least be happy you will be able to still play.. more than you can do now.

[bluefish]

Nijia@Vox wrote:

I'm talking about a level 90 character, not starting new characters from level 1.

I'm not going to switch every equipment slot with Treasured just to fool around and not being able to run a random last expansion dungeon.

The incentive to pay, is simply there as soon as you get a new fabled/legendary drop that is an upgrade, a new master, more plats than you can handle, etc.

For me there is no incentive to log back in to check out new updates, when I find my level 90 character naked and unusable.

If I have to buy a bunch of Unlock items just to play the level 90 character to get a feel if I want to sub again, that defeats the purpose of being able to play for free.

I understand it's EQ2 and they don't have to do it like other games, I'm just saying for a level 90 character (ie. long time player), there is no flexibility in the pricing model. It's pay to play.

Being able to simply log in my character and say "hi" doesn't count as a flexibility.

Seeing as you always get new gear as you progress in the game I think they should really unlock any gear that is obtained while being subscribed.

All I'm saying is... looking at the F2P pricing models right now... I have flexibility in LOTRO. I know in LOTRO if I stop to pay and come back two months later, I will be able to ride my horse, I will be able to use all my five bags, because they were earned when I paid a subscription, and they remain usable.

There are enough limits in the game. All they're doing is making less people want to come back in and play.

well that's your opinion and you have a right to your own opinion

[SmokeJumper]

Nanyea wrote:

I think the F2P people or at least the silver need limited access to broker to sell things and keep the broker economy healthy, maybe make their stuff 20% more expensive (but taking it out of the sellers end instead of the buyers)

That's a natural thought, and it's one of the things we watched carefully on Freeport. But it just didn't turn out that way. The broker on Freeport is robust (although it started out lean because everyone on the server was level 1...it took time to mature). We had to make a few tweaks after launch (allowing Silver/Free to buy from the broker, but sell only via marketplace unlock charges, thus creating a bigger purchasing base for sellers), but it's great now.

[SmokeJumper]

Zephanor@Guk wrote:

You realize that right now as a subscriber if you aren't paying you aren't playing.  If you aren't paying then you aren't currently a subscriber, plain and simple.  You can't even log into the game.  If your subscription lapses as a Gold member you can at least still login and do something, certainly a whole heck of a lot more than how things currently and have always existed on non-EQ2X servers.  Seems to me like that's an improvement.

The only difference I see is that when you re-up your $15 a month (or whatever depending on your payment schedule) your legendary/fabled gear will be waiting in your bags.  Everything else will be just as it was.

However, while leveling up toons I found that I did fine using adept spells and treasured armor.  Do things go faster, better with higher tier items?  Of course!  But the game is still completely playable and for non-hardcore players that's quite fine.  Granted, once you high the higher expansions that changes a bit but it's still not totally out of the question.  You're not going to be raiding HM Vallon Zek as a freebie or silvie... and you shouldn't.

There needs to be an incentive to pay otherwise folks would find a way not to which would impact funding and tank any future development thus... kill the game.  I know some folks that had to leave due to finances who will be more than happy to be able to get back in free or pay $5 once for silver and keep touch with friends.  When things improve in the wallet they would pay for gold and pull their good gear back out of the bank.

This is exactly what I would have posted from my own viewpoint as a player on Freeport. Full agreement, Zephanor. Thanks.

[SmokeJumper]

Nijia@Vox wrote:

I'm talking about a level 90 character, not starting new characters from level 1.

I'm not going to switch every equipment slot with Treasured just to fool around and not being able to run a random last expansion dungeon.

The incentive to pay, is simply there as soon as you get a new fabled/legendary drop that is an upgrade, a new master, more plats than you can handle, etc.

For me there is no incentive to log back in to check out new updates, when I find my level 90 character naked and unusable.

If I have to buy a bunch of Unlock items just to play the level 90 character to get a feel if I want to sub again, that defeats the purpose of being able to play for free.

I understand it's EQ2 and they don't have to do it like other games, I'm just saying for a level 90 character (ie. long time player), there is no flexibility in the pricing model. It's pay to play.

Being able to simply log in my character and say "hi" doesn't count as a flexibility.

Seeing as you always get new gear as you progress in the game I think they should really unlock any gear that is obtained while being subscribed.

All I'm saying is... looking at the F2P pricing models right now... I have flexibility in LOTRO. I know in LOTRO if I stop to pay and come back two months later, I will be able to ride my horse, I will be able to use all my five bags, because they were earned when I paid a subscription, and they remain usable.

There are enough limits in the game. All they're doing is making less people want to come back in and play.

If what you want is for everything to be unlocked for you completely when you log back in, you'd have to do what you have to do today. You'd have to become a subscriber (or as we'll be calling it soon, get a Gold membership).

The flexibility in that case would be that you could pay for either a recurring or non-recurring subscription. So if you just wanted to pay for one month and not have to worry about it recurring because you're trying things oiut, you can do that now.

Additionally, I'll be really surprised if we don't find a way to run winback or other marketing campaigns that would be designed to let you come back as a Gold member occasionally. (Or something to that same effect, anyway.)

On the other hand, if you did want to just come back as a Free account, then yes, you'd be subject to the Free restrictions. This, however, is a significant improvement over what you'd face now...which would be no access at all (unless you come in via a marketing program like the free trial or RAF...but in that case, please see above).

You may want more, and that's understandable. But this is the trade-off that comes when we make the decision to let you play *all* levels and *all* content up through Sentinel's Fate for free. I think you'll find that you pay for that same sort of content in other F2P MMOs.

We like our way better. We think it promotes a better community because anyone can go anywhere and play at any level. That's fun. And Free players on EQ2X seem to be more than happy to live with these restrictions in trade for such an awesome game free of charge.

It pretty much depends on what you want, personally. I can't change your mind. Only you can do that. But this is our reasoning. I hope it makes sense.

[Maroger]

SmokeJumper wrote:

Nijia@Vox wrote:

I'm talking about a level 90 character, not starting new characters from level 1.

I'm not going to switch every equipment slot with Treasured just to fool around and not being able to run a random last expansion dungeon.

The incentive to pay, is simply there as soon as you get a new fabled/legendary drop that is an upgrade, a new master, more plats than you can handle, etc.

For me there is no incentive to log back in to check out new updates, when I find my level 90 character naked and unusable.

If I have to buy a bunch of Unlock items just to play the level 90 character to get a feel if I want to sub again, that defeats the purpose of being able to play for free.

I understand it's EQ2 and they don't have to do it like other games, I'm just saying for a level 90 character (ie. long time player), there is no flexibility in the pricing model. It's pay to play.

Being able to simply log in my character and say "hi" doesn't count as a flexibility.

Seeing as you always get new gear as you progress in the game I think they should really unlock any gear that is obtained while being subscribed.

All I'm saying is... looking at the F2P pricing models right now... I have flexibility in LOTRO. I know in LOTRO if I stop to pay and come back two months later, I will be able to ride my horse, I will be able to use all my five bags, because they were earned when I paid a subscription, and they remain usable.

There are enough limits in the game. All they're doing is making less people want to come back in and play.

If what you want is for everything to be unlocked for you completely when you log back in, you'd have to do what you have to do today. You'd have to become a subscriber (or as we'll be calling it soon, get a Gold membership).

The flexibility in that case would be that you could pay for either a recurring or non-recurring subscription. So if you just wanted to pay for one month and not have to worry about it recurring because you're trying things oiut, you can do that now.

Additionally, I'll be really surprised if we don't find a way to run winback or other marketing campaigns that would be designed to let you come back as a Gold member occasionally. (Or something to that same effect, anyway.)

On the other hand, if you did want to just come back as a Free account, then yes, you'd be subject to the Free restrictions. This, however, is a significant improvement over what you'd face now...which would be no access at all (unless you come in via a marketing program like the free trial or RAF...but in that case, please see above).

You may want more, and that's understandable. But this is the trade-off that comes when we make the decision to let you play *all* levels and *all* content up through Sentinel's Fate for free. I think you'll find that you pay for that same sort of content in other F2P MMOs.

We like our way better. We think it promotes a better community because anyone can go anywhere and play at any level. That's fun. And Free players on EQ2X seem to be more than happy to live with these restrictions in trade for such an awesome game free of charge.

It pretty much depends on what you want, personally. I can't change your mind. Only you can do that. But this is our reasoning. I hope it makes sense.

Those of us who currently have station Access and continue with the subscription - what happens to our access to EQ LIVE and Vanguar - I still have characters on both of those and I am afraid I am going to lose access with this new plan. Don't you think that the access to those two games should be grandfathered in along with out character slots. This seems like it will not be good for those with station access if we lose access to the other games.

[Rijacki]

Maroger wrote:

SmokeJumper wrote:

Nijia@Vox wrote:

I'm talking about a level 90 character, not starting new characters from level 1.

I'm not going to switch every equipment slot with Treasured just to fool around and not being able to run a random last expansion dungeon.

The incentive to pay, is simply there as soon as you get a new fabled/legendary drop that is an upgrade, a new master, more plats than you can handle, etc.

For me there is no incentive to log back in to check out new updates, when I find my level 90 character naked and unusable.

If I have to buy a bunch of Unlock items just to play the level 90 character to get a feel if I want to sub again, that defeats the purpose of being able to play for free.

I understand it's EQ2 and they don't have to do it like other games, I'm just saying for a level 90 character (ie. long time player), there is no flexibility in the pricing model. It's pay to play.

Being able to simply log in my character and say "hi" doesn't count as a flexibility.

Seeing as you always get new gear as you progress in the game I think they should really unlock any gear that is obtained while being subscribed.

All I'm saying is... looking at the F2P pricing models right now... I have flexibility in LOTRO. I know in LOTRO if I stop to pay and come back two months later, I will be able to ride my horse, I will be able to use all my five bags, because they were earned when I paid a subscription, and they remain usable.

There are enough limits in the game. All they're doing is making less people want to come back in and play.

If what you want is for everything to be unlocked for you completely when you log back in, you'd have to do what you have to do today. You'd have to become a subscriber (or as we'll be calling it soon, get a Gold membership).

The flexibility in that case would be that you could pay for either a recurring or non-recurring subscription. So if you just wanted to pay for one month and not have to worry about it recurring because you're trying things oiut, you can do that now.

Additionally, I'll be really surprised if we don't find a way to run winback or other marketing campaigns that would be designed to let you come back as a Gold member occasionally. (Or something to that same effect, anyway.)

On the other hand, if you did want to just come back as a Free account, then yes, you'd be subject to the Free restrictions. This, however, is a significant improvement over what you'd face now...which would be no access at all (unless you come in via a marketing program like the free trial or RAF...but in that case, please see above).

You may want more, and that's understandable. But this is the trade-off that comes when we make the decision to let you play *all* levels and *all* content up through Sentinel's Fate for free. I think you'll find that you pay for that same sort of content in other F2P MMOs.

We like our way better. We think it promotes a better community because anyone can go anywhere and play at any level. That's fun. And Free players on EQ2X seem to be more than happy to live with these restrictions in trade for such an awesome game free of charge.

It pretty much depends on what you want, personally. I can't change your mind. Only you can do that. But this is our reasoning. I hope it makes sense.

Those of us who currently have station Access and continue with the subscription - what happens to our access to EQ LIVE and Vanguar - I still have characters on both of those and I am afraid I am going to lose access with this new plan. Don't you think that the access to those two games should be grandfathered in along with out character slots. This seems like it will not be good for those with station access if we lose access to the other games.

Station Access will have Gold level membership in EQ2 and nothing happens to the Vanguard subscription.

From the FAQ:

10. I have an All Access membership. What does this mean for EverQuest II?

Being an All Access member you will receive the premium Gold level membership. However, Gold access is only available while you have an active All Access subscription.

[Maroger]

Rijacki wrote:

Maroger wrote:

SmokeJumper wrote:

Nijia@Vox wrote:

I'm talking about a level 90 character, not starting new characters from level 1.

I'm not going to switch every equipment slot with Treasured just to fool around and not being able to run a random last expansion dungeon.

The incentive to pay, is simply there as soon as you get a new fabled/legendary drop that is an upgrade, a new master, more plats than you can handle, etc.

For me there is no incentive to log back in to check out new updates, when I find my level 90 character naked and unusable.

If I have to buy a bunch of Unlock items just to play the level 90 character to get a feel if I want to sub again, that defeats the purpose of being able to play for free.

I understand it's EQ2 and they don't have to do it like other games, I'm just saying for a level 90 character (ie. long time player), there is no flexibility in the pricing model. It's pay to play.

Being able to simply log in my character and say "hi" doesn't count as a flexibility.

Seeing as you always get new gear as you progress in the game I think they should really unlock any gear that is obtained while being subscribed.

All I'm saying is... looking at the F2P pricing models right now... I have flexibility in LOTRO. I know in LOTRO if I stop to pay and come back two months later, I will be able to ride my horse, I will be able to use all my five bags, because they were earned when I paid a subscription, and they remain usable.

There are enough limits in the game. All they're doing is making less people want to come back in and play.

If what you want is for everything to be unlocked for you completely when you log back in, you'd have to do what you have to do today. You'd have to become a subscriber (or as we'll be calling it soon, get a Gold membership).

The flexibility in that case would be that you could pay for either a recurring or non-recurring subscription. So if you just wanted to pay for one month and not have to worry about it recurring because you're trying things oiut, you can do that now.

Additionally, I'll be really surprised if we don't find a way to run winback or other marketing campaigns that would be designed to let you come back as a Gold member occasionally. (Or something to that same effect, anyway.)

On the other hand, if you did want to just come back as a Free account, then yes, you'd be subject to the Free restrictions. This, however, is a significant improvement over what you'd face now...which would be no access at all (unless you come in via a marketing program like the free trial or RAF...but in that case, please see above).

You may want more, and that's understandable. But this is the trade-off that comes when we make the decision to let you play *all* levels and *all* content up through Sentinel's Fate for free. I think you'll find that you pay for that same sort of content in other F2P MMOs.

We like our way better. We think it promotes a better community because anyone can go anywhere and play at any level. That's fun. And Free players on EQ2X seem to be more than happy to live with these restrictions in trade for such an awesome game free of charge.

It pretty much depends on what you want, personally. I can't change your mind. Only you can do that. But this is our reasoning. I hope it makes sense.

Those of us who currently have station Access and continue with the subscription - what happens to our access to EQ LIVE and Vanguar - I still have characters on both of those and I am afraid I am going to lose access with this new plan. Don't you think that the access to those two games should be grandfathered in along with out character slots. This seems like it will not be good for those with station access if we lose access to the other games.

Station Access will have Gold level membership in EQ2 and nothing happens to the Vanguard subscription.

From the FAQ:

10. I have an All Access membership. What does this mean for EverQuest II?

Being an All Access member you will receive the premium Gold level membership. However, Gold access is only available while you have an active All Access subscription.

*insults are not necessary* - gold access is only $14.99 - Station access = $19.99 - Station Access INCLUDES access to EQ LIVE and VANGUARD for the price. Nothing has been said about this gold account giving you access to the other 2 games as in Station Access. Its sounds like we may be going to be foraced to pay for a subscription To EQLIVE and could end up costing us more money.

I AM AGAINST THIS CHANGE without clarification on the free access to the other 2 games.

[Deveryn]

Maroger wrote:

Rijacki wrote:

Maroger wrote:

Those of us who currently have station Access and continue with the subscription - what happens to our access to EQ LIVE and Vanguar - I still have characters on both of those and I am afraid I am going to lose access with this new plan. Don't you think that the access to those two games should be grandfathered in along with out character slots. This seems like it will not be good for those with station access if we lose access to the other games.

Station Access will have Gold level membership in EQ2 and nothing happens to the Vanguard subscription.

From the FAQ:

10. I have an All Access membership. What does this mean for EverQuest II?

Being an All Access member you will receive the premium Gold level membership. However, Gold access is only available while you have an active All Access subscription.

I see you are having your usual reading problems, Rijacki - gold access is only $14.99 - Station access = $19.99 - Station Access INCLUDES access to EQ LIVE and VANGUARD for the price. Nothing has been said about this gold account giving you access to the other 2 games as in Station Access. Its sounds like we may be going to be foraced to pay for a subscription To EQLIVE and could end up costing us more money.

I AM AGAINST THIS CHANGE without clarification on the free access to the other 2 games.

You'd have to look at the other two FAQs for those games or maybe there's an answer on the SOE site. If they have similar deals for access, then it's possible you get gold in each game under Station Access.

[Rijacki]

Maroger wrote:

Rijacki wrote:

Maroger wrote:

SmokeJumper wrote:

Nijia@Vox wrote:

I'm talking about a level 90 character, not starting new characters from level 1.

I'm not going to switch every equipment slot with Treasured just to fool around and not being able to run a random last expansion dungeon.

The incentive to pay, is simply there as soon as you get a new fabled/legendary drop that is an upgrade, a new master, more plats than you can handle, etc.

For me there is no incentive to log back in to check out new updates, when I find my level 90 character naked and unusable.

If I have to buy a bunch of Unlock items just to play the level 90 character to get a feel if I want to sub again, that defeats the purpose of being able to play for free.

I understand it's EQ2 and they don't have to do it like other games, I'm just saying for a level 90 character (ie. long time player), there is no flexibility in the pricing model. It's pay to play.

Being able to simply log in my character and say "hi" doesn't count as a flexibility.

Seeing as you always get new gear as you progress in the game I think they should really unlock any gear that is obtained while being subscribed.

All I'm saying is... looking at the F2P pricing models right now... I have flexibility in LOTRO. I know in LOTRO if I stop to pay and come back two months later, I will be able to ride my horse, I will be able to use all my five bags, because they were earned when I paid a subscription, and they remain usable.

There are enough limits in the game. All they're doing is making less people want to come back in and play.

If what you want is for everything to be unlocked for you completely when you log back in, you'd have to do what you have to do today. You'd have to become a subscriber (or as we'll be calling it soon, get a Gold membership).

The flexibility in that case would be that you could pay for either a recurring or non-recurring subscription. So if you just wanted to pay for one month and not have to worry about it recurring because you're trying things oiut, you can do that now.

Additionally, I'll be really surprised if we don't find a way to run winback or other marketing campaigns that would be designed to let you come back as a Gold member occasionally. (Or something to that same effect, anyway.)

On the other hand, if you did want to just come back as a Free account, then yes, you'd be subject to the Free restrictions. This, however, is a significant improvement over what you'd face now...which would be no access at all (unless you come in via a marketing program like the free trial or RAF...but in that case, please see above).

You may want more, and that's understandable. But this is the trade-off that comes when we make the decision to let you play *all* levels and *all* content up through Sentinel's Fate for free. I think you'll find that you pay for that same sort of content in other F2P MMOs.

We like our way better. We think it promotes a better community because anyone can go anywhere and play at any level. That's fun. And Free players on EQ2X seem to be more than happy to live with these restrictions in trade for such an awesome game free of charge.

It pretty much depends on what you want, personally. I can't change your mind. Only you can do that. But this is our reasoning. I hope it makes sense.

Those of us who currently have station Access and continue with the subscription - what happens to our access to EQ LIVE and Vanguar - I still have characters on both of those and I am afraid I am going to lose access with this new plan. Don't you think that the access to those two games should be grandfathered in along with out character slots. This seems like it will not be good for those with station access if we lose access to the other games.

Station Access will have Gold level membership in EQ2 and nothing happens to the Vanguard subscription.

From the FAQ:

10. I have an All Access membership. What does this mean for EverQuest II?

Being an All Access member you will receive the premium Gold level membership. However, Gold access is only available while you have an active All Access subscription.

I see you are having your usual reading problems, Rijacki - gold access is only $14.99 - Station access = $19.99 - Station Access INCLUDES access to EQ LIVE and VANGUARD for the price. Nothing has been said about this gold account giving you access to the other 2 games as in Station Access. Its sounds like we may be going to be foraced to pay for a subscription To EQLIVE and could end up costing us more money.

I AM AGAINST THIS CHANGE without clarification on the free access to the other 2 games.

You are the one with reading issues.

No change is being made to All Access (the new name for Station Access) for any game other than EQ2/E2X:

http://www.soe.com/allaccess/faq.vm:

[Currently]

The SOE All Access game pass grants game time for all of the following games:

• DC Universe™ Online (PC version) [This is now Legendary or whatever the premimum access is called]
• EverQuest® (PC and Mac versions)
• EverQuest II
• EverQuest II Extended - Gold Membership Included!
• EverQuest Online Adventures™ (PlayStation® 2)
• Pirates of the Burning Sea® - Captain's Club Membership Included!
• PlanetSide®
• Vanguard: Saga of Heroes
• Free Realms® (PC and Mac versions) Membership Included!Star Wars®: Clone Wars Adventures™ (PC and Mac versions) Jedi™ Membership Included!

The only thing changing are the two lines for EverQuest II and EverQuest II Extended will be merged into one with the "Gold Membership" portion remaining. 

That's what "Being an All Access member you will receive the premium Gold level membership." means. You will get GOLD access in EQ2 if you have an All Access account.

There was no need to specifically mention Vanguard's access in an FAQ about EQ2 going F2P because it doesn't affect Vanguard or your access there one iota!

[Maroger]

Rijacki wrote:

Maroger wrote:

Rijacki wrote:

Maroger wrote:

SmokeJumper wrote:

Nijia@Vox wrote:

I'm talking about a level 90 character, not starting new characters from level 1.

I'm not going to switch every equipment slot with Treasured just to fool around and not being able to run a random last expansion dungeon.

The incentive to pay, is simply there as soon as you get a new fabled/legendary drop that is an upgrade, a new master, more plats than you can handle, etc.

For me there is no incentive to log back in to check out new updates, when I find my level 90 character naked and unusable.

If I have to buy a bunch of Unlock items just to play the level 90 character to get a feel if I want to sub again, that defeats the purpose of being able to play for free.

I understand it's EQ2 and they don't have to do it like other games, I'm just saying for a level 90 character (ie. long time player), there is no flexibility in the pricing model. It's pay to play.

Being able to simply log in my character and say "hi" doesn't count as a flexibility.

Seeing as you always get new gear as you progress in the game I think they should really unlock any gear that is obtained while being subscribed.

All I'm saying is... looking at the F2P pricing models right now... I have flexibility in LOTRO. I know in LOTRO if I stop to pay and come back two months later, I will be able to ride my horse, I will be able to use all my five bags, because they were earned when I paid a subscription, and they remain usable.

There are enough limits in the game. All they're doing is making less people want to come back in and play.

If what you want is for everything to be unlocked for you completely when you log back in, you'd have to do what you have to do today. You'd have to become a subscriber (or as we'll be calling it soon, get a Gold membership).

The flexibility in that case would be that you could pay for either a recurring or non-recurring subscription. So if you just wanted to pay for one month and not have to worry about it recurring because you're trying things oiut, you can do that now.

Additionally, I'll be really surprised if we don't find a way to run winback or other marketing campaigns that would be designed to let you come back as a Gold member occasionally. (Or something to that same effect, anyway.)

On the other hand, if you did want to just come back as a Free account, then yes, you'd be subject to the Free restrictions. This, however, is a significant improvement over what you'd face now...which would be no access at all (unless you come in via a marketing program like the free trial or RAF...but in that case, please see above).

You may want more, and that's understandable. But this is the trade-off that comes when we make the decision to let you play *all* levels and *all* content up through Sentinel's Fate for free. I think you'll find that you pay for that same sort of content in other F2P MMOs.

We like our way better. We think it promotes a better community because anyone can go anywhere and play at any level. That's fun. And Free players on EQ2X seem to be more than happy to live with these restrictions in trade for such an awesome game free of charge.

It pretty much depends on what you want, personally. I can't change your mind. Only you can do that. But this is our reasoning. I hope it makes sense.

Those of us who currently have station Access and continue with the subscription - what happens to our access to EQ LIVE and Vanguar - I still have characters on both of those and I am afraid I am going to lose access with this new plan. Don't you think that the access to those two games should be grandfathered in along with out character slots. This seems like it will not be good for those with station access if we lose access to the other games.

Station Access will have Gold level membership in EQ2 and nothing happens to the Vanguard subscription.

From the FAQ:

10. I have an All Access membership. What does this mean for EverQuest II?

Being an All Access member you will receive the premium Gold level membership. However, Gold access is only available while you have an active All Access subscription.

I see you are having your usual reading problems, Rijacki - gold access is only $14.99 - Station access = $19.99 - Station Access INCLUDES access to EQ LIVE and VANGUARD for the price. Nothing has been said about this gold account giving you access to the other 2 games as in Station Access. Its sounds like we may be going to be foraced to pay for a subscription To EQLIVE and could end up costing us more money.

I AM AGAINST THIS CHANGE without clarification on the free access to the other 2 games.

You are the one with reading issues.

No change is being made to All Access (the new name for Station Access) for any game other than EQ2/E2X:

http://www.soe.com/allaccess/faq.vm:

[Currently]

The SOE All Access game pass grants game time for all of the following games:

• DC Universe™ Online (PC version) [This is now Legendary or whatever the premimum access is called]
• EverQuest® (PC and Mac versions)
• EverQuest II
• EverQuest II Extended - Gold Membership Included!
• EverQuest Online Adventures™ (PlayStation® 2)
• Pirates of the Burning Sea® - Captain's Club Membership Included!
• PlanetSide®
• Vanguard: Saga of Heroes
• Free Realms® (PC and Mac versions) Membership Included!Star Wars®: Clone Wars Adventures™ (PC and Mac versions) Jedi™ Membership Included!

The only thing changing are the two lines for EverQuest II and EverQuest II Extended will be merged into one with the "Gold Membership" portion remaining. 

That's what "Being an All Access member you will receive the premium Gold level membership." means. You will get GOLD access in EQ2 if you have an All Access account.

There was no need to specifically mention Vanguard's access in an FAQ about EQ2 going F2P because it doesn't affect Vanguard or your access there one iota!

And what about my 13 character slots?

*Political discussion is not permitted here*  

[Deveryn]

http://eq2wire.com/2011/11/10/worri...ots-dont-panic/

[Rijacki]

Maroger wrote:

And what about my 13 character slots?

You are the Rick Perry of EQ2.

And you weren't asking about character slots with your mention of Vanguard and EQ2 with All Access, etc. Besides, if you'd read any of the threads today or just only SmokeJumper's posts (easily accessible via the Dev Tracker), you would even find out the exact answer to the question you are asking -now- instead of the one you claim I'm not understanding or forgetting or whatever (even your insult doesn't make sense):

http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...509050&#5655961

SmokeJumper wrote:

SmokeJumper wrote:

Labruja wrote:

What about those of us who have the extra slots due to All Access?  Will we lose those slots now?

Checking on SA. I don't have that info at my fingertips currently, but will get an answer shortly.

Checked on it. If you have SA slots currently (we don't offer slots on SA currently, but people that had them before the change are grandfathered in still), then you will keep those SA slots after the changeover.

I'm tempted to trade you insult for insult but you're flinging insults because you're the one who is ignorant. I at least actually look for information and don't assume the world revolves solely around me and thus all answers have to be delivered on a silver platter to me directly. -I- have no problems reading.

As a side note: I have SA (or rather All Access as it is called now) on one of my accounts with nearly all character slots filled. I also play a few other games from time to time on that account. I've had SA on that account for -years-. I used to have SA on my second account but converted it to standard shortly before the change to All Access and the dropping of the character slot benefit. That account didn't (and won't) get grandfathered slots since it wasn't SA at the time of -that- conversion.

I'm currently debating letting my second account go to Silver, paying for race/class unlocks with that ONE TIME fee and then unlocking other things as I need/want them. I haven't decided yet. It would be cheaper, but the plat cap and quest journal cap would drive me nuts (those are the 2 things for which I think there are no one time unlocks, though I could be wrong.) Without the 'pay to win' things on the Marketplace, I actually think F2P might be a good thing over all -and- cheaper for most players.

[Darq]

SmokeJumper wrote:

Nijia@Vox wrote:

I'm talking about a level 90 character, not starting new characters from level 1.

I'm not going to switch every equipment slot with Treasured just to fool around and not being able to run a random last expansion dungeon.

The incentive to pay, is simply there as soon as you get a new fabled/legendary drop that is an upgrade, a new master, more plats than you can handle, etc.

For me there is no incentive to log back in to check out new updates, when I find my level 90 character naked and unusable.

If I have to buy a bunch of Unlock items just to play the level 90 character to get a feel if I want to sub again, that defeats the purpose of being able to play for free.

I understand it's EQ2 and they don't have to do it like other games, I'm just saying for a level 90 character (ie. long time player), there is no flexibility in the pricing model. It's pay to play.

Being able to simply log in my character and say "hi" doesn't count as a flexibility.

Seeing as you always get new gear as you progress in the game I think they should really unlock any gear that is obtained while being subscribed.

All I'm saying is... looking at the F2P pricing models right now... I have flexibility in LOTRO. I know in LOTRO if I stop to pay and come back two months later, I will be able to ride my horse, I will be able to use all my five bags, because they were earned when I paid a subscription, and they remain usable.

There are enough limits in the game. All they're doing is making less people want to come back in and play.

<...>

You may want more, and that's understandable. But this is the trade-off that comes when we make the decision to let you play *all* levels and *all* content up through Sentinel's Fate for free. I think you'll find that you pay for that same sort of content in other F2P MMOs.

We like our way better. We think it promotes a better community because anyone can go anywhere and play at any level. That's fun. And Free players on EQ2X seem to be more than happy to live with these restrictions in trade for such an awesome game free of charge.

It pretty much depends on what you want, personally. I can't change your mind. Only you can do that. But this is our reasoning. I hope it makes sense.

I wrote a lengthy text but reconsidered. So I'll just say, SF isn't free, we already paid for it and all content up to SF with our subscription fees and with the expansions purchased. Long term success involves trust. And trust has been broken on more than one occasion from SOE's side. Also the players are a valuable resource.However it is what it is.

F2P, good, however for once take a look in the right direction for inspiration. DDO is a good example.

Tired of repeating myself. For now it's the right choice since what once made the game unique and the best on the market is gone. You will have to decide at some point if you want real F2P+micro or continue on the extended trial path.

From just an egotistic player's view, great I get to group with people not only at level 90. Leveling up alts in groups and open or closed dungeons were a big part of the game I enjoyed.

edit: Not happy at all with the restrictions if the subscription expires. So yeah we don't get anything for free, we get stuff taken away. Characters in DoV get punished (only Legendary+ items) while one can have fun with low level characters. All that raid gear one worked for and paid the subscription for, useless. Characters that don't fit the race/class restrictions - useless and unplayable. This is just a money grab on your part, regular players only have to option to subscribe or leave because if you're not subscribed you get slapped in the face by the restrictions. Rethink this before it's too late, well meant advice.

[Labruja]

How does this impact so negatively on subscribers?  

EQ2Live - Subscribe for full access or if subscription lapses you will have no access to account.

EQ2Live/Extended merge - Subscribe for full access or if subscription lapses you will only have limited access to account.

This is worse.... how?

[Cyliena]

Labruja wrote:

How does this impact so negatively on subscribers?  

EQ2Live - Subscribe for full access or if subscription lapses you will have no access to account.

EQ2Live/Extended merge - Subscribe for full access or if subscription lapses you will only have limited access to account.

This is worse.... how?

Exactly, it's not worse. If you can't pay for a month, you can still play in some fashion instead of being locked out of your account. Though having a backup set of Mastercrafted laying around might be in your best interests in this circumstance.

[Foofybun]

the 3 day weekend warrior pass is gone when F2P goes live. Thats been my ONLY option for playing this year due to lack of funds. Stupid econmy, grr. Anyway, like others have said, if you have races/classes not on the "free" list, you will get an unplayable toon upon login.

An expense to unlock your race/class for a single toon, never mind your whole account,will already cost the same as just paying for thre gold sub. This obviously leaves zero options if you are on a budget like myself. I was happy to at least play , I got all features for a 3 day pass. I was able to play all 5 of my accounts this way to some degree while Im going through a tough time.

Now my options are to pay for gold and only get to play one account (especially tough for a holiday event because then I have to choose, /angry) and thats only a big IF I can pay $15. Some times, I can only pay the $5 3 day pass or not eat.

Or I can try unlocking aspects of my account to get a semblence of full access, and I might add, majority of my toons will need unlockers. 750 race +750 class is $15, so Im back to just paying gold and getting access to everything.

Really sucks to not have choices in the matter. Also, I paid for classes via different expacs over the years, similar to how the BLS are handled, but we arent getting them as an automatic unlock,why?

[Valdaglerion]

Nijia@Vox wrote:

Don't get me wrong: I think the recent news are GREAT and I wish it had been done sooner.

I think the new F2P pricing table is much better, with access to all races and classes for subscribers.

However there is still on glaring problem:

In EverQuest 2 nobody wants to log in after a break, as a F2P player, and find their character half naked because all the LEGENDARY/FABLED items are unusable and have been returned to bag slots.

This is a big deal breaker for me, as a subscriber.

The game remains pretty much PAY TO PLAY, because I can not do anything worthwhile with my character if I log while not being subscribed. And worse, it will actually mess up my character to log in when I am not subscribed.

Thus, there is no additional flexibility or options for a subscriber (seeing as the Marketplace is already on live).

Consider the spells: if you log in and were only able to cast Expert level of your spells, fine. THat's acceptable and does not stop me from enjoying the game until I decide to sub again for full benefits.

But logging in and finding that NONE of my gear is usable? No, thanks.

In Summary:

1) You need to find a way to unlock and legendary/fabled gear that the character ATTUNED while being subscribed and make sure that any equipped gear remains usable when the player logs in as Silver or Free.

2) Speaking of Silver, you need to make sure that anybody who pays a sub will never downgrade to Free, but only to Silver.

You dont lose it but it does become as you note, unuseable until you are at a subscription level. Easy solution ifyou are taking a break - downgrade to Free, re-sub on return and hit the macro you create to re-equip your gear and start playing. 

Allowing people to circumvent the restrictions when they downgrade their sub is a bad thing. Ok, I have my top end gear time to downgrade and play for free until the next xpac? No, that would never happen. Plat farmers would love that one. Set up box sets all day long in good gear that didnt require any further upgrade to run effectively and then downgrade them all to free and farm with basically 1 subbed toon and an army of free ones? Nah...wouldnt happen.

[MrWolfie]

Darq wrote:

Not happy at all with the restrictions if the subscription expires. So yeah we don't get anything for free, we get stuff taken away.

QFE.

As far as I'm concerned, as an 8 year vet with all the expansions bought, I already paid for the content I have. On this account, I have already unlocked all the races and all the classes, and as I've pre-ordered the next expansion, Beastlords too. Everything I have right now, everything attuned, extra bag slots, fully mastered spell lists - they're already bought & paid for.

If I start a new account, I'll have to pay to unlock stuff. I understand.

If I let my subscription lapse, I'll have to pay to unlock new content/items. I understand.

But if there are devices to unlock those things you're considering taking away from lapsed subscribers, I would suggest that you deem all current subscriptions in good standing to have already unlocked what they currently have access to.

[Jacquotte]

Nijia@Vox wrote:

Don't get me wrong: I think the recent news are GREAT and I wish it had been done sooner.

I think the new F2P pricing table is much better, with access to all races and classes for subscribers.

However there is still on glaring problem:

In EverQuest 2 nobody wants to log in after a break, as a F2P player, and find their character half naked because all the LEGENDARY/FABLED items are unusable and have been returned to bag slots.

This is a big deal breaker for me, as a subscriber.

The game remains pretty much PAY TO PLAY, because I can not do anything worthwhile with my character if I log while not being subscribed. And worse, it will actually mess up my character to log in when I am not subscribed.

Thus, there is no additional flexibility or options for a subscriber (seeing as the Marketplace is already on live).

Consider the spells: if you log in and were only able to cast Expert level of your spells, fine. THat's acceptable and does not stop me from enjoying the game until I decide to sub again for full benefits.

But logging in and finding that NONE of my gear is usable? No, thanks.

In Summary:

1) You need to find a way to unlock and legendary/fabled gear that the character ATTUNED while being subscribed and make sure that any equipped gear remains usable when the player logs in as Silver or Free.

2) Speaking of Silver, you need to make sure that anybody who pays a sub will never downgrade to Free, but only to Silver.

this businessmodel is how you REALLY make money, get with the times!

as for all us livegamers, gold costs the same as our current sub and there is no difference between the two, NOTHING will change for us, apart from MORE players online... and alot more come-and-go n00bs, sadly

[Kursa]

As i posted in my previous thread, you cant take a divided community and squash it together and expect it to play nicely. Live and F2P will always be divided and you cant change that Smooshing them into 1 isnt going to fix anything its jsut going to cause further division. on a further note Ill be Forming a guild soon, LIVE VETS ONLY!

[screenid]

Kursa@Antonia Bayle wrote:

As i posted in my previous thread, you cant take a divided community and squash it together and expect it to play nicely. Live and F2P will always be divided and you cant change that Smooshing them into 1 isnt going to fix anything its jsut going to cause further division. on a further note Ill be Forming a guild soon, LIVE VETS ONLY!

  LOL you are not going to notice the difference.  There is no FLAG above a FTP players head that says  FTP .

Most players that want to stay FTP but are serious about the game...will upgrade to silver and buy unlockers for equipment and Master Spells.   (or they will FTP to lvl cap then SUB gold for end game) 

  You will only know they are FTP --if they TELL YOU.

[Onurissa]

Foofybunny wrote:

the 3 day weekend warrior pass is gone when F2P goes live. Thats been my ONLY option for playing this year due to lack of funds. Stupid econmy, grr. Anyway, like others have said, if you have races/classes not on the "free" list, you will get an unplayable toon upon login.

An expense to unlock your race/class for a single toon, never mind your whole account,will already cost the same as just paying for thre gold sub. This obviously leaves zero options if you are on a budget like myself. I was happy to at least play , I got all features for a 3 day pass. I was able to play all 5 of my accounts this way to some degree while Im going through a tough time.

Now my options are to pay for gold and only get to play one account (especially tough for a holiday event because then I have to choose, /angry) and thats only a big IF I can pay $15. Some times, I can only pay the $5 3 day pass or not eat.

Or I can try unlocking aspects of my account to get a semblence of full access, and I might add, majority of my toons will need unlockers. 750 race +750 class is $15, so Im back to just paying gold and getting access to everything.

Really sucks to not have choices in the matter. Also, I paid for classes via different expacs over the years, similar to how the BLS are handled, but we arent getting them as an automatic unlock,why?

You have 5 accts and you claim you pay for the 3 day passes to play them all? So thats 15$ why not consolidate down to ONE acct and pay the $15 and voila, you are set?