With the addition of spell autoattack, will you now itemize for melee healers?

gatrm · 07-15-2011, 05:12 PM

It was one thing when in beta it was posted that the developers had no intention of itemizing for Melee healers. Now however, you are providing casting healers and mages with spell autoattack, and I imagine that if the weapon giving spell autoattack is equipped, then you can't also be using melee autoattack. If casters will get ma/haste/dps mod, etc....you know all the stats that have been denied to melee healers, then please please provide the same melee stats to wardens, inquisitors, and mystics. I.E. rather than creating a new stat identified as spell haste, spell dps, spell ma, just make those stats available for both melee and casting versions of autoattack, and the one that is used depend on the weapon that is being used (primary or ranged).

I read the information provided on EQ2wire from the fanfaire on mechanics changes, and it seemed that melee healers, as usual, were completely ignored. Healers have been able to spec melee skills for dps since AAs were introduced. The wrong solution is to remove the ability of a player to customize their toon as a melee class. The right solution is to itemize for those classes, at the very least in the form of jewelry, but preferrably across the board- haste belt or gloves would be nice.

I am cautiously optimistic that the new reallocation of stats will allow us to apply melee skills, but I suspect that we won't be able to add stats that are not already available for the classes gear we are "customizing".

It will be a heck of a slap in the face if furies get spell autoattack, haste, dps mod, ma, etc, and wardens are continually denied the same melee stats outside of adornment options, and I hope to hear something positive will happen for Melee healers, rather than taking away the option to spec melee.

Felshades · 07-15-2011, 05:16 PM

They want us not to use the melee lines.

Best guess I can make.

LardLord · 07-15-2011, 05:16 PM

I think they expect reforging to solve the "melee healer problem."

EDIT: Nevermind, I just read that you can only rearrange stats on items with reforging. If an item doesn't have mult-attack to start with, you won't be able to add it? Lame.

Banditman · 07-15-2011, 06:06 PM

If reforging only allows you to shift stats (STR/AGI/STA/WIS/INT) around it is a collosal waste of time to even impliment.

The bigger problem with melee healers is, as always, the fact that their "items" need a larger budget to create than a normal item.

So, for a Fury, an item budget that yields WIS, Potency, CB and Cast Speed is fine. The "problem" is that all of that budget works both toward the offensive and defensive abilities of the Fury. On the other hand, a melee healer still needs all of those things, but also needs DPS mod, Haste and MA. The item "budget" doesn't really work for a melee healer.

Felshades · 07-15-2011, 06:16 PM

Banditman wrote:

If reforging only allows you to shift stats (STR/AGI/STA/WIS/INT) around it is a collosal waste of time to even impliment.
The bigger problem with melee healers is, as always, the fact that their "items" need a larger budget to create than a normal item.
So, for a Fury, an item budget that yields WIS, Potency, CB and Cast Speed is fine. The "problem" is that all of that budget works both toward the offensive and defensive abilities of the Fury. On the other hand, a melee healer still needs all of those things, but also needs DPS mod, Haste and MA. The item "budget" doesn't really work for a melee healer.

I almost wonder if there wouldn't be a way to make it(even through AA) to have spell haste give MA, WIS give dps mod.

And spell haste working as melee haste would be an idea across the board. It's not like scouts are going to take wis items because it has more haste on it....

therodge · 07-16-2011, 01:08 PM

since they are completly redoing itemization and an aa revamp i forsee them completly removing melee from the mix melee aas will become spelll aas and they wont have to itemize for them ever again

Gull Fuzzynuts · 07-17-2011, 04:34 PM

They shouldn't add new spell versions of dps, haste, MA etc. They should consolidate them into plain old dps, haste, MA and those stats would just effect you differently based on how you are attacking the mob. If you are casting spells then it applies to your spell attacks. If you are melee then it applies to your melee weapon attacks. The only place I forsee this being a major issue is for hybrid melee classes such as bards and crusaders. Troubs need this kind of love. It would allow them to take advantage of their ability to do both types of damage. SK's would become too overpowered but that would just require some tuning down to bring them more in line with everyone else. This would require extensive testing to keep it from backfiring on the devs. It would have to be released in its completed form to avoid major nerfs later on.

If they create separate stats for melee and casting they are going backwards. There was a reason why they consolidated base ca/spell damage into potency and +CA/spell into ability mod. Why complicate it now by segregating melee and caster stats again.

Back to the subject at hand. I think if SOE decided to do away with melee priest aa's and dont properly itemize for them, they will have a real problem on their hands with retaining the players that have those types of toons. I know I wouldnt want to play an Inq/Warden/Mystic without the melee side of the class. It's what makes them fun to play.

Felshades · 07-17-2011, 06:46 PM

With me it wasn't what made them fun to play, it's what made them tolerable to level.

Spells being resisted a lot when your spells hit like wet noodles made levelling a healer antagonizingly painful.

Vellisse · 07-17-2011, 07:04 PM

therodge wrote:

since they are completly redoing itemization and an aa revamp i forsee them completly removing melee from the mix melee aas will become spelll aas and they wont have to itemize for them ever again

That would be the single most pathetic thing SOE could ever do in the game.

I'd personally fly to San Diego and protest it.

Odys · 07-17-2011, 11:27 PM

Let's see melee healers are a substancial part of the player base, and may be they want us to quit.

It seems to me that everything they do is going in the wrong direction.

Scout auto attack now account for 70-80 % of their damage, so in a sense there is no good scout dps anymore, just well equiped ones. SO they get 80-160k of dps auto attack this is ridiculous.

So basically scouts can now go afk during raids like in Eq1.

Since mages want afk playing to SOE will give them auto attack, it's ridiculous.

gatrm · 07-18-2011, 10:33 AM

Gull@Blackburrow wrote:

They shouldn't add new spell versions of dps, haste, MA etc. They should consolidate them into plain old dps, haste, MA and those stats would just effect you differently based on how you are attacking the mob. If you are casting spells then it applies to your spell attacks. If you are melee then it applies to your melee weapon attacks. The only place I forsee this being a major issue is for hybrid melee classes such as bards and crusaders. Troubs need this kind of love. It would allow them to take advantage of their ability to do both types of damage. SK's would become too overpowered but that would just require some tuning down to bring them more in line with everyone else. This would require extensive testing to keep it from backfiring on the devs. It would have to be released in its completed form to avoid major nerfs later on.
Well, since these stats do not affect combat arts, they would not affect spells either. It would not overpower anyone if it was linked to type of attack. I.E. if the new autoattack wand is equipped in the range slot, and you have your ranged autoattack turned on, then you would have spell autoattack going. If you have melee autoattack toggled, you would only have the classic melee autoattack. I am certain I read somewhere that you cannot have both going at the same time, so it would probably work the way rangers have now where they have a bow and melee weapons and depending on what attack they use or which they toggle, is which autoattack they will be using. Hopefully, this is what they do with the stats. It would probably be the easiest solution to the problem at hand...if the devs even see it as a problem.
If they create separate stats for melee and casting they are going backwards. There was a reason why they consolidated base ca/spell damage into potency and +CA/spell into ability mod. Why complicate it now by segregating melee and caster stats again.
Yeah. I certainly hope they make it just one stat which they make available on gear of all classes. It's the only way melee healers will be treated fairly with this change. Of course, melee healers have never been itemized for specifically, probably for the reason that banditman describes, but in the past they could use gear designed for other classes, be it brawlers, scouts, or tanks.
Back to the subject at hand. I think if SOE decided to do away with melee priest aa's and dont properly itemize for them, they will have a real problem on their hands with retaining the players that have those types of toons. I know I wouldnt want to play an Inq/Warden/Mystic without the melee side of the class. It's what makes them fun to play.
This would cause way too much backlash. Like I said in my original post, healers have been able to spec for melee dps since AAs were introduced. It's way too late for the developers to reverse that decision and hope to keep much of their loyal playerbase.

The description I read of the AA revamp indicated that they would be removing the webbing and possibly the requirement to take useless prerequisites to get the good stuff. They were also talking about changing the unpopular AAs or AA lines. Since the melee lines are popular among the players, I would hope that they weren't considering removing those particular lines. Also, I have heard rumors that they are not touching the KoS tree, which still provides choices for melee dps for healers.

07-15-2011, 06:06 PM	#4
Banditman Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,459	If reforging only allows you to shift stats (STR/AGI/STA/WIS/INT) around it is a collosal waste of time to even impliment. The bigger problem with melee healers is, as always, the fact that their "items" need a larger budget to create than a normal item. So, for a Fury, an item budget that yields WIS, Potency, CB and Cast Speed is fine. The "problem" is that all of that budget works both toward the offensive and defensive abilities of the Fury. On the other hand, a melee healer still needs all of those things, but also needs DPS mod, Haste and MA. The item "budget" doesn't really work for a melee healer. __________________

07-15-2011, 06:16 PM	#5
Felshades Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 2,887	Banditman wrote: If reforging only allows you to shift stats (STR/AGI/STA/WIS/INT) around it is a collosal waste of time to even impliment. The bigger problem with melee healers is, as always, the fact that their "items" need a larger budget to create than a normal item. So, for a Fury, an item budget that yields WIS, Potency, CB and Cast Speed is fine. The "problem" is that all of that budget works both toward the offensive and defensive abilities of the Fury. On the other hand, a melee healer still needs all of those things, but also needs DPS mod, Haste and MA. The item "budget" doesn't really work for a melee healer. I almost wonder if there wouldn't be a way to make it(even through AA) to have spell haste give MA, WIS give dps mod. And spell haste working as melee haste would be an idea across the board. It's not like scouts are going to take wis items because it has more haste on it....

07-17-2011, 07:04 PM	#9
Vellisse Server: Antonia Bayle Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 389	therodge wrote: since they are completly redoing itemization and an aa revamp i forsee them completly removing melee from the mix melee aas will become spelll aas and they wont have to itemize for them ever again That would be the single most pathetic thing SOE could ever do in the game. I'd personally fly to San Diego and protest it. __________________

07-17-2011, 11:27 PM	#10
Odys Server: Storms Guild: Eternitalis Rank: Cavalier Loremaster Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,422	Let's see melee healers are a substancial part of the player base, and may be they want us to quit. It seems to me that everything they do is going in the wrong direction. Scout auto attack now account for 70-80 % of their damage, so in a sense there is no good scout dps anymore, just well equiped ones. SO they get 80-160k of dps auto attack this is ridiculous. So basically scouts can now go afk during raids like in Eq1. Since mages want afk playing to SOE will give them auto attack, it's ridiculous. __________________

07-18-2011, 10:33 AM	#11
gatrm Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 545	Gull@Blackburrow wrote: They shouldn't add new spell versions of dps, haste, MA etc. They should consolidate them into plain old dps, haste, MA and those stats would just effect you differently based on how you are attacking the mob. If you are casting spells then it applies to your spell attacks. If you are melee then it applies to your melee weapon attacks. The only place I forsee this being a major issue is for hybrid melee classes such as bards and crusaders. Troubs need this kind of love. It would allow them to take advantage of their ability to do both types of damage. SK's would become too overpowered but that would just require some tuning down to bring them more in line with everyone else. This would require extensive testing to keep it from backfiring on the devs. It would have to be released in its completed form to avoid major nerfs later on. Well, since these stats do not affect combat arts, they would not affect spells either. It would not overpower anyone if it was linked to type of attack. I.E. if the new autoattack wand is equipped in the range slot, and you have your ranged autoattack turned on, then you would have spell autoattack going. If you have melee autoattack toggled, you would only have the classic melee autoattack. I am certain I read somewhere that you cannot have both going at the same time, so it would probably work the way rangers have now where they have a bow and melee weapons and depending on what attack they use or which they toggle, is which autoattack they will be using. Hopefully, this is what they do with the stats. It would probably be the easiest solution to the problem at hand...if the devs even see it as a problem. If they create separate stats for melee and casting they are going backwards. There was a reason why they consolidated base ca/spell damage into potency and +CA/spell into ability mod. Why complicate it now by segregating melee and caster stats again. Yeah. I certainly hope they make it just one stat which they make available on gear of all classes. It's the only way melee healers will be treated fairly with this change. Of course, melee healers have never been itemized for specifically, probably for the reason that banditman describes, but in the past they could use gear designed for other classes, be it brawlers, scouts, or tanks. Back to the subject at hand. I think if SOE decided to do away with melee priest aa's and dont properly itemize for them, they will have a real problem on their hands with retaining the players that have those types of toons. I know I wouldnt want to play an Inq/Warden/Mystic without the melee side of the class. It's what makes them fun to play. This would cause way too much backlash. Like I said in my original post, healers have been able to spec for melee dps since AAs were introduced. It's way too late for the developers to reverse that decision and hope to keep much of their loyal playerbase. The description I read of the AA revamp indicated that they would be removing the webbing and possibly the requirement to take useless prerequisites to get the good stuff. They were also talking about changing the unpopular AAs or AA lines. Since the melee lines are popular among the players, I would hope that they weren't considering removing those particular lines. Also, I have heard rumors that they are not touching the KoS tree, which still provides choices for melee dps for healers.

07-15-2011, 05:12 PM	#1
gatrm Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 545	It was one thing when in beta it was posted that the developers had no intention of itemizing for Melee healers. Now however, you are providing casting healers and mages with spell autoattack, and I imagine that if the weapon giving spell autoattack is equipped, then you can't also be using melee autoattack. If casters will get ma/haste/dps mod, etc....you know all the stats that have been denied to melee healers, then please please provide the same melee stats to wardens, inquisitors, and mystics. I.E. rather than creating a new stat identified as spell haste, spell dps, spell ma, just make those stats available for both melee and casting versions of autoattack, and the one that is used depend on the weapon that is being used (primary or ranged). I read the information provided on EQ2wire from the fanfaire on mechanics changes, and it seemed that melee healers, as usual, were completely ignored. Healers have been able to spec melee skills for dps since AAs were introduced. The wrong solution is to remove the ability of a player to customize their toon as a melee class. The right solution is to itemize for those classes, at the very least in the form of jewelry, but preferrably across the board- haste belt or gloves would be nice. I am cautiously optimistic that the new reallocation of stats will allow us to apply melee skills, but I suspect that we won't be able to add stats that are not already available for the classes gear we are "customizing". It will be a heck of a slap in the face if furies get spell autoattack, haste, dps mod, ma, etc, and wardens are continually denied the same melee stats outside of adornment options, and I hope to hear something positive will happen for Melee healers, rather than taking away the option to spec melee.

07-15-2011, 05:16 PM	#2
Felshades Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 2,887	They want us not to use the melee lines. Best guess I can make.

07-15-2011, 05:16 PM	#3
LardLord Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,515	I think they expect reforging to solve the "melee healer problem." EDIT: Nevermind, I just read that you can only rearrange stats on items with reforging. If an item doesn't have mult-attack to start with, you won't be able to add it? Lame.

07-16-2011, 01:08 PM	#6
therodge Loremaster Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 824	since they are completly redoing itemization and an aa revamp i forsee them completly removing melee from the mix melee aas will become spelll aas and they wont have to itemize for them ever again

07-17-2011, 04:34 PM	#7
Gull Fuzzynuts Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 18	They shouldn't add new spell versions of dps, haste, MA etc. They should consolidate them into plain old dps, haste, MA and those stats would just effect you differently based on how you are attacking the mob. If you are casting spells then it applies to your spell attacks. If you are melee then it applies to your melee weapon attacks. The only place I forsee this being a major issue is for hybrid melee classes such as bards and crusaders. Troubs need this kind of love. It would allow them to take advantage of their ability to do both types of damage. SK's would become too overpowered but that would just require some tuning down to bring them more in line with everyone else. This would require extensive testing to keep it from backfiring on the devs. It would have to be released in its completed form to avoid major nerfs later on. If they create separate stats for melee and casting they are going backwards. There was a reason why they consolidated base ca/spell damage into potency and +CA/spell into ability mod. Why complicate it now by segregating melee and caster stats again. Back to the subject at hand. I think if SOE decided to do away with melee priest aa's and dont properly itemize for them, they will have a real problem on their hands with retaining the players that have those types of toons. I know I wouldnt want to play an Inq/Warden/Mystic without the melee side of the class. It's what makes them fun to play.

07-17-2011, 06:46 PM	#8
Felshades Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 2,887	With me it wasn't what made them fun to play, it's what made them tolerable to level. Spells being resisted a lot when your spells hit like wet noodles made levelling a healer antagonizingly painful.