I felt like a complete idiot in yesterday's raid

Amphimedon · 10-04-2010, 07:52 AM

me : mashing buttons to keep power, pressing mana flow and savante as soon as they are up, barely able to keep our power burning fury and inq from running out of power. When not rebuffing other players, once in a while managing to get some spells off so i'm showing up in the parses

coercer: press mana flow on group, go watch tv, launch some spells, press mana flow on other group, grab a drink, press mana flow, eat some pizza, mana flow on third group .... keep up 3 groups without any problem

me : asking myself : "[Removed for Content] am i doing here" SMILEY

fury in our group to make it complete : /r we need a coercer in this group ...

/quit eq2

Laiina · 10-04-2010, 11:23 AM

Furies are a very popular class, but one of the dirtly little secrets is that they are also huge power hogs, especially if they are in dps mode.

While a Coercer can keep up much better with a single target, not so much for group wide.

Amphimedon · 10-04-2010, 11:29 AM

Laiina wrote:

While a Coercer can keep up much better with a single target, not so much for group wide.

huh ?

Laiina · 10-04-2010, 11:41 AM

See http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=429296

And http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=439861

"At high levels (raiding) illusionists are a bit more in demand as their buffs aren't so specialised to tank/priest (main tank group), but are more broadly useful for DPS classes (3 other groups)."

Pyra Shineflame · 10-04-2010, 01:39 PM

Yes, our illys have some issues power feeding but we don't put that burden on them necessarily. It's always the coercers job or a bard to mana song. And your inq really shouldn't be running out of power...

Boodle · 10-04-2010, 05:47 PM

Laiina wrote:

See http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=429296
And http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=439861
"At high levels (raiding) illusionists are a bit more in demand as their buffs aren't so specialised to tank/priest (main tank group), but are more broadly useful for DPS classes (3 other groups)."

Both of those threads are from 2008. The first one from before shortly TSO came out and the other shortly after TSO. Anyone raiding on an illy (or a coercer) since that time frame will tell you that it is much much different today than it was then. Not only the classes, but the game itself ... Gear was very different, AAs were different and desired buffs were different. (And lets not even talk about the proc nerf!) Anyways, point is, do not rely on 2 year old information to compare the classes - considering one of the comparisions is before TSO and hence before an entire AA tree (um, TSO) was added ... with the even further changes to both classes and additional AA for SF, a 2 year old comparison isn't worth much.

There have been other comparsions done - think you will mostly find them on that _other_ site, but this? gives very much the wrong impression of the current state of enchanters in comparison to each other.

As for the original OP, all I can tell you is that yes, coercers can keep mana up in multiple groups - all us illys can do is what we can - run savante as much as possible for the power hogs in your group (but really, your inq shouldn't be running out in the normal stuff as someone else pointed out) and good luck.

Laiina · 10-04-2010, 08:57 PM

Yeah, you're right, I did not notice the thread dates before I posted the links, but the basic characteristics and differences have not changed all that much. And Illy's are still usually in higher demand than are Coercers for raids.

But he is talking about a Fury running OOP, not an Inqisitor.

"...It's always the coercers job or a bard to mana song. And your inq really shouldn't be running out of power..."

If you are relying on a bard for power regen, you are probably running out of power. Even if specced (and most do not), bard regen is not all that good compared to chanters.

Cometar · 10-05-2010, 12:50 AM

Something that helps me out on my Illy, especially when trying to keep the fury in my raid groups power up, are the mana procing items you can get. Those along with my myth buff and a few points more than most people put into the mana regen side of the Illy AA tree have really made a noticible difference in my abilities to keep power up. Also, especially knowing how my fury plays pretty well now, I know I usually need to hit mana flow to him about 15 seconds before I actually think he needs it. Also, I might add that using reuse red adorns as opposed to potency adorns on shoulders and forearms has helped out getting my abilites back up in time. As I get better gear and higher reuse I may switch those out, but thats been a better option for me at this time and something you might want to consider. My perspective is coming from a raid guild that's pretty casual. Raid twice a week. Most of us are decked out in t1/t2 gear. You could try some of the things I've done (mana gear, AA alterations, better preventative tactics) and see if it yields any better results for you.

snowli · 10-05-2010, 06:07 AM

Laiina wrote:

Yeah, you're right, I did not notice the thread dates before I posted the links, but the basic characteristics and differences have not changed all that much. And Illy's are still usually in higher demand than are Coercers for raids.
But he is talking about a Fury running OOP, not an Inqisitor.
"...It's always the coercers job or a bard to mana song. And your inq really shouldn't be running out of power..."
If you are relying on a bard for power regen, you are probably running out of power. Even if specced (and most do not), bard regen is not all that good compared to chanters.

The threads quoted are extremely outdated and wrong on many counts.

Most raids run with 3-4 coercers, they are in much higher demand.

If your raid is short on chanters, which is really quite common, coercers are 12 times better at dealing with raidwide power problems than illy's.

Coercers also have far superior clutch abilities for inside group mana.

Coercers do more dps, even without troubs.

Coercers have less annoying constant single target buffing.

Coercer buffs have less problems with reaching caps.

Coercer signature abilties are far better.

Bards should never be running power regen song unless there is no chanter in group, it uses up a concentration slot that could be spent on another song buff, doesn't stack with chanter power regen buff, chanter power regen uses no concentration at all, and the chanter version should be stronger aswell.

Chunkaliscious · 10-05-2010, 04:01 PM

Maybe you are looking at this from the wrong angle. Yes, I know that as an Illy one of your jobs is to keep the blue bars rocking. It sounds like you were doing everything in your power to make that happen. The blame, if there is any, should go to the other 2 players. The Inq shouldnt have any power problems at all if they are up to snuff. If the fury is having issues as well, maybe they should invest in some power proccing items and get the AA that helps, get a manastone, buy some potions, signets, and some tinkered items.

We all have certain roles and duties in raids/groups. We also have the ability to make the others jobs in raids easier. Alot of people just forget about that. Its like the dpser who mashes every button they have at once, ignoring the number getting bigger on the threat meter until they are flat on their back yelling at the tank for not holding aggro.

Amphimedon · 10-06-2010, 03:55 AM

Chunk, i agree mostly with your post except for one thing. In raid situations it is not up to other players to look for their own power. That is what chanters are for. And i think you missed the whole point. Put a coercer in that same group and there are no power issues. And if there's someone to blame it is not the player, it's SOE who messed up the class. Oh yes ... they are redesigning TW now ... 10 months after launch ... it's like fixing a dent on a crashed car ....as if it's going to fix the class ... Sentinels Fate has been one huge dissappointment for us illys.

I did raids with a necro, a swash, a templar and a sk, but never felt so useless as raiding on my illy, even felt guilty i was taking up a raid spot

I am so tired of this bs, other than 'we are aware of the issues' and 'even we do not answer posts we are reading the forums', i think the devs are doing a very poor job on this class ... Guardians got alot of things changed, rangers got their problems solved, even scout (or pure melee) classes had their dps boost, even they we're not asking for it ... Even a simple bug as our pet dropping on zoning is still not fixed. So you might understand why i am seriously considering quitting this game if those issues aren't solved by next GU.

Boli32 · 10-06-2010, 06:20 AM

The best way for an illy to keep a group powered up is to DPS; "Soothing mind" the ability from the epic spell/item shoudl be procing constantly on the group.

On a successful hostile spell this spell has a 12% chance to cast Soothing Mind on the group. Lasts for 15.0 seconds.
On any combat or spell hit this spell will cast Soothing Mind on the group. Lasts for 15.0 seconds.
Increases power of target by 388
Grants a total of 1 triggers of the spell

Cannot be modified except by direct means

Cannot be modified except by direct means

If you are stuck in a stun/rebuff cycle and are only casting 1 or 2 spells a minuite then your power regen is going to be even worse forcing you to rely more on Savante and Mana Cloak; which compared with the coercer alternatives are simly not viable to keep a group up with power.

Rebuffing is perhaps the biggest pain of the illy class; I often used to just create a hotbar speficlaly filled with my single target buffs macroed to the people in my group so when they died I coud rebuff and continue trying to maintain my DPS.

As the OP posters mentioned you cannot neglect items in helping you maintain power; in TSO I used the power girdle from the blue chardock shiney collection; it proced like crazy on our group temp buffs and helped me a lot (even after the proc nerf) on fights I was too stunned/interupted to DPS efficently.

As for generating power in the mage group equip a couple of group power proc items (aITEM -939774711 1664478560:[Vulaan's Earhoop of the Herald]/a, or even : aITEM 1457074043 388892313:Girdle of the Di'Zok Spirit/a ). and spend most of your time trying to DPS. hit temp buffs when they are up; and maintain Manaflow on the fury.

As long as you are constantly engaging the mob power will be constantlly proced across the group and a lot of your problems will solve themselves.

Whilst the triggers have moved down from 3 to 1 on the illy myth since TSO the concept remains the same except the single power proc can be effected by potency and crit giving similar power gain.

Timing Manacloak with AoEs (or a series of AoEs) is perfect and will give a much needed power proc to the group.

In short... if none of your group dies (ugh.. rebuffing!); then with a couple of items changed (if necsercary) and manaflow constanly on the healer you can pretty much concentrate on DPS and the power will sort itself out; at least that's been my experiance and the experiance of the illys in my raids. (whilst I do not play one anymore I do still natter to them SMILEY )

Chunkaliscious · 10-06-2010, 03:39 PM

Amphimedon wrote:

Chunk, i agree mostly with your post except for one thing. In raid situations it is not up to other players to look for their own power. That is what chanters are for. And i think you missed the whole point. Put a coercer in that same group and there are no power issues. And if there's someone to blame it is not the player, it's SOE who messed up the class. Oh yes ... they are redesigning TW now ... 10 months after launch ... it's like fixing a dent on a crashed car ....as if it's going to fix the class ... Sentinels Fate has been one huge dissappointment for us illys.

I feel your pain for sure. I do still stand by my assertation that it still is the individuals responsibility to manage their own power, aggro, whatever. In less than optimal situations players should change their playstyle accordingly. If your group didnt have an illy or chanter and all, for whatever reason, they would have had to adjust their playstyle. Same with this situation.

Zivgar · 10-12-2010, 11:26 AM

When I play my Illusionist I have no problems keeping power up in my group even with a Fury.

I did a Toz raid a couple days ago and I was the only chanter and for the most part didn't have power issues (Of course it is easymode Tox raid, I'm sure that is more the reason why power wasn't an issue)

But the main point stays true that coercers have a much easier time with group and raidwide mana than Illusionists.

The group manaflow is a huge reason why and I feel Illusionist needs something simular. Coercers got the AA for groupwide Velocity, which was unquie on the Illusionist Myth giving us groupwide Rapidity. I look at the coercers Myth compared to ours and there is so much better. We both get Manaflow as the first AA we put into, that is an enchanter thing so both classes should have the same manaflow.

I suggested changing the Manaflow AA in the Illusionist TSO tree, when 5 points is put into that AA it then makes Manaflow groupwide. That is just the same as the velocity AA coercers get, so I think its fair.

Now that the new update is in and looks like they got Multi-attack in with it. At least now IA will be wanted again.

Fanbrig · 10-12-2010, 12:30 PM

When I raid, I'm usually in a group with a Troub, Fury, Inq and 2 wizzies. I don't seem to have a problem keeping power up, in fact, sometimes use my single target mana spells outside of our group to help the melee group's healers when we are short on chanters. It's possible that the gear and skill level of my group mates is so good they manage their own power well, but I cannot remember the last time I had difficulties keeping a single group's power up.

With Savante, mana cloak, mana flow, epithany (sp) and power drains along with myth buff and a few proc items - I hardly worry about group's power. You can always cast power spells following TW for a little extra help if needed as well. My mana spells are on par with the coercers in our raids when looking at ACT afterwards. Rebuffing, on the other hand, is a pain in the butt and the coercers often dps 10-20% higher with seemingly less effort.

Zutan · 10-15-2010, 06:34 PM

I can keep my own groups power up pretty easily with the epic buff and other spells as long as the group stays in range of Mana Tap (why the heck is it so short ranged compared to other spells?)

I cant do anything for other groups though. Since only Mana Flow can cast outside the group and is single target there is no point bothering with it.

I really feel like such a basic function of 'enchanters' should be equal between coercer and illy. The specific buffs/debuffs should be the distinguishing factor for them.

seshem · 10-21-2010, 12:35 PM

This Item Vulaan's Earhoop of the Herald Is a must for all illy's. We cast so fast and Often this thing procs as much power as our myth ability. i can have any class in my group and i never have a problem keep them in power unless there is an AOE power drain, then i use savante or mana cloak on incomming AOE damage.

10-04-2010, 07:52 AM	#1
Amphimedon Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 36	me : mashing buttons to keep power, pressing mana flow and savante as soon as they are up, barely able to keep our power burning fury and inq from running out of power. When not rebuffing other players, once in a while managing to get some spells off so i'm showing up in the parses coercer: press mana flow on group, go watch tv, launch some spells, press mana flow on other group, grab a drink, press mana flow, eat some pizza, mana flow on third group .... keep up 3 groups without any problem me : asking myself : "[Removed for Content] am i doing here" fury in our group to make it complete : /r we need a coercer in this group ... /quit eq2

10-04-2010, 11:23 AM	#2
Laiina Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 622	Furies are a very popular class, but one of the dirtly little secrets is that they are also huge power hogs, especially if they are in dps mode. While a Coercer can keep up much better with a single target, not so much for group wide. __________________

10-04-2010, 11:29 AM	#3
Amphimedon Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 36	Laiina wrote: While a Coercer can keep up much better with a single target, not so much for group wide. huh ?

10-04-2010, 11:41 AM	#4
Laiina Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 622	See http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=429296 And http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=439861 "At high levels (raiding) illusionists are a bit more in demand as their buffs aren't so specialised to tank/priest (main tank group), but are more broadly useful for DPS classes (3 other groups)." __________________

10-04-2010, 01:39 PM	#5
Pyra Shineflame Loremaster Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 538	Yes, our illys have some issues power feeding but we don't put that burden on them necessarily. It's always the coercers job or a bard to mana song. And your inq really shouldn't be running out of power... __________________ "Blood! Sweet blood, death and decay!"

10-04-2010, 05:47 PM	#6
Boodle Server: Oasis Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1	Laiina wrote: See http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=429296 And http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=439861 "At high levels (raiding) illusionists are a bit more in demand as their buffs aren't so specialised to tank/priest (main tank group), but are more broadly useful for DPS classes (3 other groups)." Both of those threads are from 2008. The first one from before shortly TSO came out and the other shortly after TSO. Anyone raiding on an illy (or a coercer) since that time frame will tell you that it is much much different today than it was then. Not only the classes, but the game itself ... Gear was very different, AAs were different and desired buffs were different. (And lets not even talk about the proc nerf!) Anyways, point is, do not rely on 2 year old information to compare the classes - considering one of the comparisions is before TSO and hence before an entire AA tree (um, TSO) was added ... with the even further changes to both classes and additional AA for SF, a 2 year old comparison isn't worth much. There have been other comparsions done - think you will mostly find them on that _other_ site, but this? gives very much the wrong impression of the current state of enchanters in comparison to each other. As for the original OP, all I can tell you is that yes, coercers can keep mana up in multiple groups - all us illys can do is what we can - run savante as much as possible for the power hogs in your group (but really, your inq shouldn't be running out in the normal stuff as someone else pointed out) and good luck.

10-04-2010, 08:57 PM	#7
Laiina Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 622	Yeah, you're right, I did not notice the thread dates before I posted the links, but the basic characteristics and differences have not changed all that much. And Illy's are still usually in higher demand than are Coercers for raids. But he is talking about a Fury running OOP, not an Inqisitor. "...It's always the coercers job or a bard to mana song. And your inq really shouldn't be running out of power..." If you are relying on a bard for power regen, you are probably running out of power. Even if specced (and most do not), bard regen is not all that good compared to chanters. __________________

10-05-2010, 12:50 AM	#8
Cometar Server: Mistmoore Guild: New Outriders Rank: NOR Members & NOR Visitors Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 107	Something that helps me out on my Illy, especially when trying to keep the fury in my raid groups power up, are the mana procing items you can get. Those along with my myth buff and a few points more than most people put into the mana regen side of the Illy AA tree have really made a noticible difference in my abilities to keep power up. Also, especially knowing how my fury plays pretty well now, I know I usually need to hit mana flow to him about 15 seconds before I actually think he needs it. Also, I might add that using reuse red adorns as opposed to potency adorns on shoulders and forearms has helped out getting my abilites back up in time. As I get better gear and higher reuse I may switch those out, but thats been a better option for me at this time and something you might want to consider. My perspective is coming from a raid guild that's pretty casual. Raid twice a week. Most of us are decked out in t1/t2 gear. You could try some of the things I've done (mana gear, AA alterations, better preventative tactics) and see if it yields any better results for you. __________________

10-05-2010, 06:07 AM	#9
snowli General Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 571	Laiina wrote: Yeah, you're right, I did not notice the thread dates before I posted the links, but the basic characteristics and differences have not changed all that much. And Illy's are still usually in higher demand than are Coercers for raids. But he is talking about a Fury running OOP, not an Inqisitor. "...It's always the coercers job or a bard to mana song. And your inq really shouldn't be running out of power..." If you are relying on a bard for power regen, you are probably running out of power. Even if specced (and most do not), bard regen is not all that good compared to chanters. The threads quoted are extremely outdated and wrong on many counts. Most raids run with 3-4 coercers, they are in much higher demand. If your raid is short on chanters, which is really quite common, coercers are 12 times better at dealing with raidwide power problems than illy's. Coercers also have far superior clutch abilities for inside group mana. Coercers do more dps, even without troubs. Coercers have less annoying constant single target buffing. Coercer buffs have less problems with reaching caps. Coercer signature abilties are far better. Bards should never be running power regen song unless there is no chanter in group, it uses up a concentration slot that could be spent on another song buff, doesn't stack with chanter power regen buff, chanter power regen uses no concentration at all, and the chanter version should be stronger aswell. __________________ retired

10-05-2010, 04:01 PM	#10
Chunkaliscious Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 156	Maybe you are looking at this from the wrong angle. Yes, I know that as an Illy one of your jobs is to keep the blue bars rocking. It sounds like you were doing everything in your power to make that happen. The blame, if there is any, should go to the other 2 players. The Inq shouldnt have any power problems at all if they are up to snuff. If the fury is having issues as well, maybe they should invest in some power proccing items and get the AA that helps, get a manastone, buy some potions, signets, and some tinkered items. We all have certain roles and duties in raids/groups. We also have the ability to make the others jobs in raids easier. Alot of people just forget about that. Its like the dpser who mashes every button they have at once, ignoring the number getting bigger on the threat meter until they are flat on their back yelling at the tank for not holding aggro. __________________ If the RoK and TSO armor point is a huge issue for you to feel balanced, then you will want to play on a PvP server to gain those at this time.~Olihin

10-06-2010, 03:55 AM	#11
Amphimedon Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 36	Chunk, i agree mostly with your post except for one thing. In raid situations it is not up to other players to look for their own power. That is what chanters are for. And i think you missed the whole point. Put a coercer in that same group and there are no power issues. And if there's someone to blame it is not the player, it's SOE who messed up the class. Oh yes ... they are redesigning TW now ... 10 months after launch ... it's like fixing a dent on a crashed car ....as if it's going to fix the class ... Sentinels Fate has been one huge dissappointment for us illys. I did raids with a necro, a swash, a templar and a sk, but never felt so useless as raiding on my illy, even felt guilty i was taking up a raid spot I am so tired of this bs, other than 'we are aware of the issues' and 'even we do not answer posts we are reading the forums', i think the devs are doing a very poor job on this class ... Guardians got alot of things changed, rangers got their problems solved, even scout (or pure melee) classes had their dps boost, even they we're not asking for it ... Even a simple bug as our pet dropping on zoning is still not fixed. So you might understand why i am seriously considering quitting this game if those issues aren't solved by next GU.

10-06-2010, 06:20 AM	#12
Boli32 Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,425	The best way for an illy to keep a group powered up is to DPS; "Soothing mind" the ability from the epic spell/item shoudl be procing constantly on the group. On a successful hostile spell this spell has a 12% chance to cast Soothing Mind on the group. Lasts for 15.0 seconds. On any combat or spell hit this spell will cast Soothing Mind on the group. Lasts for 15.0 seconds. Increases power of target by 388 Grants a total of 1 triggers of the spell Cannot be modified except by direct means Cannot be modified except by direct means If you are stuck in a stun/rebuff cycle and are only casting 1 or 2 spells a minuite then your power regen is going to be even worse forcing you to rely more on Savante and Mana Cloak; which compared with the coercer alternatives are simly not viable to keep a group up with power. Rebuffing is perhaps the biggest pain of the illy class; I often used to just create a hotbar speficlaly filled with my single target buffs macroed to the people in my group so when they died I coud rebuff and continue trying to maintain my DPS. As the OP posters mentioned you cannot neglect items in helping you maintain power; in TSO I used the power girdle from the blue chardock shiney collection; it proced like crazy on our group temp buffs and helped me a lot (even after the proc nerf) on fights I was too stunned/interupted to DPS efficently. As for generating power in the mage group equip a couple of group power proc items (aITEM -939774711 1664478560:[Vulaan's Earhoop of the Herald]/a, or even : aITEM 1457074043 388892313:Girdle of the Di'Zok Spirit/a ). and spend most of your time trying to DPS. hit temp buffs when they are up; and maintain Manaflow on the fury. As long as you are constantly engaging the mob power will be constantlly proced across the group and a lot of your problems will solve themselves. Whilst the triggers have moved down from 3 to 1 on the illy myth since TSO the concept remains the same except the single power proc can be effected by potency and crit giving similar power gain. Timing Manacloak with AoEs (or a series of AoEs) is perfect and will give a much needed power proc to the group. In short... if none of your group dies (ugh.. rebuffing!); then with a couple of items changed (if necsercary) and manaflow constanly on the healer you can pretty much concentrate on DPS and the power will sort itself out; at least that's been my experiance and the experiance of the illys in my raids. (whilst I do not play one anymore I do still natter to them )

10-06-2010, 03:39 PM	#13
Chunkaliscious Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 156	Amphimedon wrote: Chunk, i agree mostly with your post except for one thing. In raid situations it is not up to other players to look for their own power. That is what chanters are for. And i think you missed the whole point. Put a coercer in that same group and there are no power issues. And if there's someone to blame it is not the player, it's SOE who messed up the class. Oh yes ... they are redesigning TW now ... 10 months after launch ... it's like fixing a dent on a crashed car ....as if it's going to fix the class ... Sentinels Fate has been one huge dissappointment for us illys. I feel your pain for sure. I do still stand by my assertation that it still is the individuals responsibility to manage their own power, aggro, whatever. In less than optimal situations players should change their playstyle accordingly. If your group didnt have an illy or chanter and all, for whatever reason, they would have had to adjust their playstyle. Same with this situation. __________________ If the RoK and TSO armor point is a huge issue for you to feel balanced, then you will want to play on a PvP server to gain those at this time.~Olihin

10-12-2010, 11:26 AM	#14
Zivgar Loremaster Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 132	When I play my Illusionist I have no problems keeping power up in my group even with a Fury. I did a Toz raid a couple days ago and I was the only chanter and for the most part didn't have power issues (Of course it is easymode Tox raid, I'm sure that is more the reason why power wasn't an issue) But the main point stays true that coercers have a much easier time with group and raidwide mana than Illusionists. The group manaflow is a huge reason why and I feel Illusionist needs something simular. Coercers got the AA for groupwide Velocity, which was unquie on the Illusionist Myth giving us groupwide Rapidity. I look at the coercers Myth compared to ours and there is so much better. We both get Manaflow as the first AA we put into, that is an enchanter thing so both classes should have the same manaflow. I suggested changing the Manaflow AA in the Illusionist TSO tree, when 5 points is put into that AA it then makes Manaflow groupwide. That is just the same as the velocity AA coercers get, so I think its fair. Now that the new update is in and looks like they got Multi-attack in with it. At least now IA will be wanted again.

10-12-2010, 12:30 PM	#15
Fanbrig Server: Everfrost Guild: Sedition Rank: Dedicated Member Loremaster Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 39	When I raid, I'm usually in a group with a Troub, Fury, Inq and 2 wizzies. I don't seem to have a problem keeping power up, in fact, sometimes use my single target mana spells outside of our group to help the melee group's healers when we are short on chanters. It's possible that the gear and skill level of my group mates is so good they manage their own power well, but I cannot remember the last time I had difficulties keeping a single group's power up. With Savante, mana cloak, mana flow, epithany (sp) and power drains along with myth buff and a few proc items - I hardly worry about group's power. You can always cast power spells following TW for a little extra help if needed as well. My mana spells are on par with the coercers in our raids when looking at ACT afterwards. Rebuffing, on the other hand, is a pain in the butt and the coercers often dps 10-20% higher with seemingly less effort.

10-15-2010, 06:34 PM	#16
Zutan Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 497	I can keep my own groups power up pretty easily with the epic buff and other spells as long as the group stays in range of Mana Tap (why the heck is it so short ranged compared to other spells?) I cant do anything for other groups though. Since only Mana Flow can cast outside the group and is single target there is no point bothering with it. I really feel like such a basic function of 'enchanters' should be equal between coercer and illy. The specific buffs/debuffs should be the distinguishing factor for them. __________________

10-21-2010, 12:35 PM	#17
seshem Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 6	This Item Vulaan's Earhoop of the Herald Is a must for all illy's. We cast so fast and Often this thing procs as much power as our myth ability. i can have any class in my group and i never have a problem keep them in power unless there is an AOE power drain, then i use savante or mana cloak on incomming AOE damage.