Idea Thread

GarrX · 09-10-2010, 07:29 PM

Xelgad's stated that he aims to do utility changes for now, with the promise of mechanics reworking to a Guardian's benefit in the future.. I thought It might be a good idea to propose some changes or uphold common beliefs among the community in a single thread, where they are updated and kept with the original post so one doesnt have to fish through a 40 page thread for a golden ticket, and perhaps even become sticky-worthy with display of promise.

With that said, I suppose I'll start, and perhaps give a couple ideas for new AAs in the new expansion, or maybe a revise to old ones. We all know the KOS and original AA trees are a bit outdated for today's content, where you don't stay below 50% health to benefit from the endline STR ability and such, for example.. So, here's a shot, and let's try to keep the Ideas UNIQUE, and not pull abilities from other classes.

Ability/AA Idea: Mirror Stance.

Purpose: Added DPS/threat in Defensive Stance.

Similar to the fashion of the way Victorious Concerto works, upon use It would monitor the amount of damage the Guardian endures on average over a 15 second period, and then returns X percentage base of that in a proc that deals damage and hate. This could change in any of the duration or percantage bases, but the general idea is a unique idea to give the Guardian class more flavor as a defensive warrior. Some might argue the "LESS PASSIVE ABILITIES" cliche, but try and remember the game is supposed to be enjoyable and not entirely for the ADHD whack-a-mole player.

Revised AA Idea: Got Your Back.

Purpose: To make it useful in a raiding spec.

The Stability line gives the impression that It's designed to keep consistency to your group, and to all ends that that entails. Instead of protecting Fighters from AOE attacks, why not simply make it protect your entire group from AOE, with an extended reuse time to lessen it's powerfulness so to speak. Instead of an AOE blocker, another Idea would be to make it a short duration Group-wide damage reduction buff that reduces magical and physical damages to the group by 50%. with a similar duration and longer reuse than the current Got Your Back. It wouldnt be a true AOE blocker, but it would reduce the damage significantly and still be in line with the Stability line's purpose and the Guardian's objective and definition as a class.

Revised AA Idea: Executioner's Fury.

Purpose: To make it useful in a half-and-half or offensive spec.

The ability currently gives a buff to crit chance and potency when you drop below 50% health and remain there. Instead of making it only when you're below 50% health that the buff is static, simply change it to a 20 second duration buff that gives those effects when you drop below 50% health, and DOES NOT dissappear when you go above 50% health. This would also make Executioner's Fortification more desirable as well, and make those two AAs go from USELESS to viable.

Revised AA Idea: Reversal.

Purpose: To add additional threat to defensive tanking.

This ability currently has a built-in 30 second cooldown. I thought It would be significantly better if It were changed to a 5 second cooldown, seeing as the proc's damage effect is very low, and the benefit of the threat from Reversal of Fortune AA would make it a very useful change for Defensive tanking with a shield, and not lose the additional threat required from dual-wielding late-game.

Revised AA Idea: Aggressive Nature.

Purpose: To make It useful in a defensive tanking spec.

Currently this only works with a block. Proposed change is to make it trigger when any avoidance takes place, thereby not defeating the purpose of Hold the Line.. the proposed change makes it so that the ability ALWAYS generates a small amount of hate whether you're struck or not.

Revised Ability Idea: Sneering Assault / Cry of the Warrior. - NEW

Purpose: To make it useful.

Suggestion is to make it so these abilities cannot miss or be resisted, in the case of the latter, even to creatures immune to force target.

Revised AA Idea: Enhance: Unyielding Will. - NEW

Purpose: To make it in-line with other tank deathsaves.

Currently we have to use this ability if we THINK we're going to die. Proposed suggestion is to make it on rank 5 of this AA ability, that instead of increasing duration, It removes the duration altogether, and makes Unyielding Will a until-canceled buff with the modified refresh of 7 or 8 minutes.

Revised Mythical Buff Idea: Wrath of Vel'Arek. - NEW

Purpose: To make it have at least some value comparable to what other classes receive in benefits from their own.

Suggestion A is to make the 5% on the proc a STATIC effect that occurs passively when the buff is on, or the mythical. Suggestion B is to remake the Riposte Immunity buff into something useful.. I dont have any parses, but the amount of damage we receive from Ripostes is laughable. But regarding threat, comparably, we're the only plate tank class that needed a hate buff, but didnt receive a hate component to our mythical. One suggestion would that instead of being immune to Riposte damage, change it to a more class defining ability such as these.

Indomitable: Caster is Immune to Knockback.

Intense Hatred: While Equiped or when this Buff is maintained, the Guardian's hategain amount does not have a capped limit, and can exceed the 50% cap through all sources.

Revised AA Idea: Flurry. - NEW

Purpose: To make it a decent end-line for Slaughtering.

Currently on test, this ability gives a flat 3% flurry to a class with bad DPS as it is.. and that's a shame for a class supposed to be called a "Warrior". If Berserker are our AOE component to being a Warrior, Guardian should be the single-target orientation, and we should have a solid 10% chance to Flurry from this ability as means to give us a little DPS. I realize the change to offhand chances to flurry would be of some concern, but with Berserker having 100% aoe auto with dual-wielding two onehanders, I really dont see the problem with a Guardian having increased single-target DPS... at least the little bit gained from a 10% chance to flurry.

Revised AA Idea: Stance Mastery. - NEW

Purpose: To make stances more useful than simply making the useless contested penalties stripped away.

Currently this ability removes the useless contested avoidances and c/p/s from stances and penalties from one of our temp buffs. People need to understand, that contested avoidance and crushing/peircing/slashing isnt as meaningful as it used to be in DOF, KOS, and Faydwer, especially with the available adornments today.. Stance mastery is useless currently. To make this ability worthwhile, make it SIMILAR to the Crusader ability, Knight's Stance, and make it increase BASE Potency of Taunt effects in Defensive stance by 50%, and an additional effect to our Offensive stance, such as a useful damage/utility proc, or additional damage whenever a shield is not equiped in the off-hand, similar to the way Knights Stance adds weapon damage, although 25% would be Overkill. 10-15% would be more in line.

An alternative to the base potency of taunt effects for the Defensive Stance portion could be Added Taunt amounts to all combat Arts. In example, with Stance Mastery, all combat arts while used in Defensive Stance generate an additional 1,000 base threat, which can be increased via potency and crit bonus.

If you have ideas of your own, ESPECIALLY ideas that would add more flavor or dynamism to the Guardian class and seperate us from the other tanks, please post them and I will add them with a daily update to this original thread. Please feel free to critique and add your wisdom to those listed as well.

Zivgar · 09-11-2010, 01:59 PM

You got some nice ideas there. I like them because they stay with the idea of being that defensive tank.

I like the 'mirror stance' idea and obiviosly work it so it would be in balance.

We these new changes I do think they are reworking aggressive nature, so you don't have put AA into from the block effect. Now that AA will just increase the current threat of Hold the Line. I would like to see that not only increase the threat amount, but increase the % that Hold the Lines triggers. 5% per rank would be nice so Hold the Line goes off 75% of the time when hit. I also play an Illusionist and I like to stun, stun, stun, and stun some more and that takes away from the Guardian reactive hate gain, when we get hit make it count for us.

Lastly I posted this idea else where but I will put it here also.

This could be a new AA or ability. Or I could be added into Hold the Line.

Providing Protection:

This would be a group buff, like a reactive (I compare it to the wizards Coldshield buff) When a mob attack another group member a proc goes off that deals damage and hate. This proc will be credited to the Guardian. The damage should be medium to high and the threat increase should be high also. The number should be something simular to the SK Grave Sacrement since Guardians do not have a simular ability.

I don't think this would be Overpowered since if the job that is being done is done correctly this would never go off, but if the mob attacks your group that is being defended by a Guardian it should pay a price as a Guardian only lives to protect his/her group.

I would also add that this would work on AE attacks and thus giving more threat and DPS to a Raid Guardian, again not that much if the Guardian has the mob turned for frontals or if the raid is jousting, but it gives something that helps.

GarrX · 09-11-2010, 06:06 PM

Zivgar wrote:

Lastly I posted this idea else where but I will put it here also.
This could be a new AA or ability. Or I could be added into Hold the Line.
Providing Protection:
This would be a group buff, like a reactive (I compare it to the wizards Coldshield buff) When a mob attack another group member a proc goes off that deals damage and hate. This proc will be credited to the Guardian. The damage should be medium to high and the threat increase should be high also. The number should be something simular to the SK Grave Sacrement since Guardians do not have a simular ability.
I don't think this would be Overpowered since if the job that is being done is done correctly this would never go off, but if the mob attacks your group that is being defended by a Guardian it should pay a price as a Guardian only lives to protect his/her group.
I would also add that this would work on AE attacks and thus giving more threat and DPS to a Raid Guardian, again not that much if the Guardian has the mob turned for frontals or if the raid is jousting, but it gives something that helps.

While I appreciate the input and compliments, to comment on your idea..

That suggestion reminds me a lot of the berserker ability Weapon Shield. Here's an Idea I think you might like, that serves the purpose of usefulness and differentiating us from the other tanks, on the other hand..

A BLUE AoE taunt spell. It works the same way as Shout, but instead of being encounter, It has a 15-20 radius around the caster, with say, 6-8k base threat before potency and crit bonus, and a recast timer similar to that of shout. That would be an ability more unique to the Guardian, seeing as most blue aoes are damage from spells or a combat art.

GarrX · 09-11-2010, 06:17 PM

Added new idea - Revise to Stance Mastery.

GarrX · 09-12-2010, 08:51 PM

I added a few new revisions and suggestions, and one of them for the mythical/mythical buff that I personally saw suggested in beta and a few of my own. The new suggestions are all tagged with red text and a flag for NEW.

Zivgar · 09-13-2010, 04:27 PM

I don't see Weapon Shield as a Berserker ability? Do you mean Weapon Counter?

If you do then do you even read my idea? Weapon Counter works when something attacks then Beserker.

My idea is when something attacks a group member the guardian counters it. This is a sort of protection to group members. Something in line with what the propose of a guardian is. And then berserkers and guardians are warriors they allready have simular abilities. The difference was what you said and what I am talking about is this.

Weapon Counter for a berseker is the berseker taking a venageful rage to those that hit him/her.

My idea for a guardian is taking revenge on a mob for hitting your group, thus getting aggro control back to the guardian to help continue to protect them.

As for the damage and threat it generates its only an idea, I used Grave Sacrement as a guideline, but if you can't look past that, I will give you numbers. When a mob hits an ally it does 2-3k damage and 3- 5k threat increase.

I think this is a good and unique idea for a class that is based on providing protection for his/her group. I haven't seen an ability that is reactive to having your group members getting hit and generating threat for the guardian, so I think its pretty unique.

GarrX · 09-14-2010, 02:55 AM

Yeah, sorry, I missed the group part of it, haha. I meant Weapon Counter also, sorry about that.

That's a good idea, but given the nature of the buff, It would be nice to also have a 1 position threat increase when a group member is struck as well. This would be a nice AA Idea to tack onto Hold the Line.

Want me to add this to the list? Also, what do you think of the other things I posted recently?

09-11-2010, 06:06 PM	#3
GarrX Lord Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 8	Zivgar wrote: Lastly I posted this idea else where but I will put it here also. This could be a new AA or ability. Or I could be added into Hold the Line. Providing Protection: This would be a group buff, like a reactive (I compare it to the wizards Coldshield buff) When a mob attack another group member a proc goes off that deals damage and hate. This proc will be credited to the Guardian. The damage should be medium to high and the threat increase should be high also. The number should be something simular to the SK Grave Sacrement since Guardians do not have a simular ability. I don't think this would be Overpowered since if the job that is being done is done correctly this would never go off, but if the mob attacks your group that is being defended by a Guardian it should pay a price as a Guardian only lives to protect his/her group. I would also add that this would work on AE attacks and thus giving more threat and DPS to a Raid Guardian, again not that much if the Guardian has the mob turned for frontals or if the raid is jousting, but it gives something that helps. While I appreciate the input and compliments, to comment on your idea.. That suggestion reminds me a lot of the berserker ability Weapon Shield. Here's an Idea I think you might like, that serves the purpose of usefulness and differentiating us from the other tanks, on the other hand.. A BLUE AoE taunt spell. It works the same way as Shout, but instead of being encounter, It has a 15-20 radius around the caster, with say, 6-8k base threat before potency and crit bonus, and a recast timer similar to that of shout. That would be an ability more unique to the Guardian, seeing as most blue aoes are damage from spells or a combat art.

09-10-2010, 07:29 PM	#1
GarrX Lord Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 8	Xelgad's stated that he aims to do utility changes for now, with the promise of mechanics reworking to a Guardian's benefit in the future.. I thought It might be a good idea to propose some changes or uphold common beliefs among the community in a single thread, where they are updated and kept with the original post so one doesnt have to fish through a 40 page thread for a golden ticket, and perhaps even become sticky-worthy with display of promise. With that said, I suppose I'll start, and perhaps give a couple ideas for new AAs in the new expansion, or maybe a revise to old ones. We all know the KOS and original AA trees are a bit outdated for today's content, where you don't stay below 50% health to benefit from the endline STR ability and such, for example.. So, here's a shot, and let's try to keep the Ideas UNIQUE, and not pull abilities from other classes. Ability/AA Idea: Mirror Stance. Purpose: Added DPS/threat in Defensive Stance. Similar to the fashion of the way Victorious Concerto works, upon use It would monitor the amount of damage the Guardian endures on average over a 15 second period, and then returns X percentage base of that in a proc that deals damage and hate. This could change in any of the duration or percantage bases, but the general idea is a unique idea to give the Guardian class more flavor as a defensive warrior. Some might argue the "LESS PASSIVE ABILITIES" cliche, but try and remember the game is supposed to be enjoyable and not entirely for the ADHD whack-a-mole player. Revised AA Idea: Got Your Back. Purpose: To make it useful in a raiding spec. The Stability line gives the impression that It's designed to keep consistency to your group, and to all ends that that entails. Instead of protecting Fighters from AOE attacks, why not simply make it protect your entire group from AOE, with an extended reuse time to lessen it's powerfulness so to speak. Instead of an AOE blocker, another Idea would be to make it a short duration Group-wide damage reduction buff that reduces magical and physical damages to the group by 50%. with a similar duration and longer reuse than the current Got Your Back. It wouldnt be a true AOE blocker, but it would reduce the damage significantly and still be in line with the Stability line's purpose and the Guardian's objective and definition as a class. Revised AA Idea: Executioner's Fury. Purpose: To make it useful in a half-and-half or offensive spec. The ability currently gives a buff to crit chance and potency when you drop below 50% health and remain there. Instead of making it only when you're below 50% health that the buff is static, simply change it to a 20 second duration buff that gives those effects when you drop below 50% health, and DOES NOT dissappear when you go above 50% health. This would also make Executioner's Fortification more desirable as well, and make those two AAs go from USELESS to viable. Revised AA Idea: Reversal. Purpose: To add additional threat to defensive tanking. This ability currently has a built-in 30 second cooldown. I thought It would be significantly better if It were changed to a 5 second cooldown, seeing as the proc's damage effect is very low, and the benefit of the threat from Reversal of Fortune AA would make it a very useful change for Defensive tanking with a shield, and not lose the additional threat required from dual-wielding late-game. Revised AA Idea: Aggressive Nature. Purpose: To make It useful in a defensive tanking spec. Currently this only works with a block. Proposed change is to make it trigger when any avoidance takes place, thereby not defeating the purpose of Hold the Line.. the proposed change makes it so that the ability ALWAYS generates a small amount of hate whether you're struck or not. Revised Ability Idea: Sneering Assault / Cry of the Warrior. - NEW Purpose: To make it useful. Suggestion is to make it so these abilities cannot miss or be resisted, in the case of the latter, even to creatures immune to force target. Revised AA Idea: Enhance: Unyielding Will. - NEW Purpose: To make it in-line with other tank deathsaves. Currently we have to use this ability if we THINK we're going to die. Proposed suggestion is to make it on rank 5 of this AA ability, that instead of increasing duration, It removes the duration altogether, and makes Unyielding Will a until-canceled buff with the modified refresh of 7 or 8 minutes. Revised Mythical Buff Idea: Wrath of Vel'Arek. - NEW Purpose: To make it have at least some value comparable to what other classes receive in benefits from their own. Suggestion A is to make the 5% on the proc a STATIC effect that occurs passively when the buff is on, or the mythical. Suggestion B is to remake the Riposte Immunity buff into something useful.. I dont have any parses, but the amount of damage we receive from Ripostes is laughable. But regarding threat, comparably, we're the only plate tank class that needed a hate buff, but didnt receive a hate component to our mythical. One suggestion would that instead of being immune to Riposte damage, change it to a more class defining ability such as these. Indomitable: Caster is Immune to Knockback. Intense Hatred: While Equiped or when this Buff is maintained, the Guardian's hategain amount does not have a capped limit, and can exceed the 50% cap through all sources. Revised AA Idea: Flurry. - NEW Purpose: To make it a decent end-line for Slaughtering. Currently on test, this ability gives a flat 3% flurry to a class with bad DPS as it is.. and that's a shame for a class supposed to be called a "Warrior". If Berserker are our AOE component to being a Warrior, Guardian should be the single-target orientation, and we should have a solid 10% chance to Flurry from this ability as means to give us a little DPS. I realize the change to offhand chances to flurry would be of some concern, but with Berserker having 100% aoe auto with dual-wielding two onehanders, I really dont see the problem with a Guardian having increased single-target DPS... at least the little bit gained from a 10% chance to flurry. Revised AA Idea: Stance Mastery. - NEW Purpose: To make stances more useful than simply making the useless contested penalties stripped away. Currently this ability removes the useless contested avoidances and c/p/s from stances and penalties from one of our temp buffs. People need to understand, that contested avoidance and crushing/peircing/slashing isnt as meaningful as it used to be in DOF, KOS, and Faydwer, especially with the available adornments today.. Stance mastery is useless currently. To make this ability worthwhile, make it SIMILAR to the Crusader ability, Knight's Stance, and make it increase BASE Potency of Taunt effects in Defensive stance by 50%, and an additional effect to our Offensive stance, such as a useful damage/utility proc, or additional damage whenever a shield is not equiped in the off-hand, similar to the way Knights Stance adds weapon damage, although 25% would be Overkill. 10-15% would be more in line. An alternative to the base potency of taunt effects for the Defensive Stance portion could be Added Taunt amounts to all combat Arts. In example, with Stance Mastery, all combat arts while used in Defensive Stance generate an additional 1,000 base threat, which can be increased via potency and crit bonus. If you have ideas of your own, ESPECIALLY ideas that would add more flavor or dynamism to the Guardian class and seperate us from the other tanks, please post them and I will add them with a daily update to this original thread. Please feel free to critique and add your wisdom to those listed as well.

09-11-2010, 01:59 PM	#2
Zivgar Loremaster Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 132	You got some nice ideas there. I like them because they stay with the idea of being that defensive tank. I like the 'mirror stance' idea and obiviosly work it so it would be in balance. We these new changes I do think they are reworking aggressive nature, so you don't have put AA into from the block effect. Now that AA will just increase the current threat of Hold the Line. I would like to see that not only increase the threat amount, but increase the % that Hold the Lines triggers. 5% per rank would be nice so Hold the Line goes off 75% of the time when hit. I also play an Illusionist and I like to stun, stun, stun, and stun some more and that takes away from the Guardian reactive hate gain, when we get hit make it count for us. Lastly I posted this idea else where but I will put it here also. This could be a new AA or ability. Or I could be added into Hold the Line. Providing Protection: This would be a group buff, like a reactive (I compare it to the wizards Coldshield buff) When a mob attack another group member a proc goes off that deals damage and hate. This proc will be credited to the Guardian. The damage should be medium to high and the threat increase should be high also. The number should be something simular to the SK Grave Sacrement since Guardians do not have a simular ability. I don't think this would be Overpowered since if the job that is being done is done correctly this would never go off, but if the mob attacks your group that is being defended by a Guardian it should pay a price as a Guardian only lives to protect his/her group. I would also add that this would work on AE attacks and thus giving more threat and DPS to a Raid Guardian, again not that much if the Guardian has the mob turned for frontals or if the raid is jousting, but it gives something that helps.

09-11-2010, 06:17 PM	#4
GarrX Lord Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 8	Added new idea - Revise to Stance Mastery.

09-12-2010, 08:51 PM	#5
GarrX Lord Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 8	I added a few new revisions and suggestions, and one of them for the mythical/mythical buff that I personally saw suggested in beta and a few of my own. The new suggestions are all tagged with red text and a flag for NEW.

09-13-2010, 04:27 PM	#6
Zivgar Loremaster Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 132	I don't see Weapon Shield as a Berserker ability? Do you mean Weapon Counter? If you do then do you even read my idea? Weapon Counter works when something attacks then Beserker. My idea is when something attacks a group member the guardian counters it. This is a sort of protection to group members. Something in line with what the propose of a guardian is. And then berserkers and guardians are warriors they allready have simular abilities. The difference was what you said and what I am talking about is this. Weapon Counter for a berseker is the berseker taking a venageful rage to those that hit him/her. My idea for a guardian is taking revenge on a mob for hitting your group, thus getting aggro control back to the guardian to help continue to protect them. As for the damage and threat it generates its only an idea, I used Grave Sacrement as a guideline, but if you can't look past that, I will give you numbers. When a mob hits an ally it does 2-3k damage and 3- 5k threat increase. I think this is a good and unique idea for a class that is based on providing protection for his/her group. I haven't seen an ability that is reactive to having your group members getting hit and generating threat for the guardian, so I think its pretty unique.

09-14-2010, 02:55 AM	#7
GarrX Lord Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 8	Yeah, sorry, I missed the group part of it, haha. I meant Weapon Counter also, sorry about that. That's a good idea, but given the nature of the buff, It would be nice to also have a 1 position threat increase when a group member is struck as well. This would be a nice AA Idea to tack onto Hold the Line. Want me to add this to the list? Also, what do you think of the other things I posted recently?