Fighter Revamp

[skidmark]

When is the fighter revamp going to happen?

[Gungo]

Creve@Vox wrote:

When is the fighter revamp going to happen?

Technically speaking the fighter revamp was completely cancelled.

What SOE intends to do now is do minor updates/tweaks on classes. (buff up plan)I dont think they will ever intend to do a FULL scale revamp ever again.For one it always comes back negative as people overreact and cry about changes even if the majoirty of the changes are good.

So the most you can expect to see is focused changes like the guardian revamp. Which is tweaks and adjustments to existing abilites.

After that you can expect mechanic tweaks to ranged combat to help rangers.After that it is likely illusionist changes then probably, monk changes. These changes will happen in waves as they are done and in smaller bite size increments.

[Valdaglerion]

Gungo wrote:

Creve@Vox wrote:

When is the fighter revamp going to happen?

Technically speaking the fighter revamp was completely cancelled.

What SOE intends to do now is do minor updates/tweaks on classes. (buff up plan)I dont think they will ever intend to do a FULL scale revamp ever again.For one it always comes back negative as people overreact and cry about changes even if the majoirty of the changes are good.

So the most you can expect to see is focused changes like the guardian revamp. Which is tweaks and adjustments to existing abilites.

After that you can expect mechanic tweaks to ranged combat to help rangers.After that it is likely illusionist changes then probably, monk changes. These changes will happen in waves as they are done and in smaller bite size increments.

Until people start crying about how much love XX class has gotten and their YY class hasnt gotten any, regardless of what is needed to bring XX class up to speed. 

[Gungo]

Artemiz@The Bazaar wrote:

Gungo wrote:

Creve@Vox wrote:

When is the fighter revamp going to happen?

Technically speaking the fighter revamp was completely cancelled.

What SOE intends to do now is do minor updates/tweaks on classes. (buff up plan)I dont think they will ever intend to do a FULL scale revamp ever again.For one it always comes back negative as people overreact and cry about changes even if the majoirty of the changes are good.

So the most you can expect to see is focused changes like the guardian revamp. Which is tweaks and adjustments to existing abilites.

After that you can expect mechanic tweaks to ranged combat to help rangers.After that it is likely illusionist changes then probably, monk changes. These changes will happen in waves as they are done and in smaller bite size increments.

Until people start crying about how much love XX class has gotten and their YY class hasnt gotten any, regardless of what is needed to bring XX class up to speed. 

Thats the problem with the system without a need for everysingle class in raids. There will always be a percieved BEST and WORST class because its human nature to judge and label And as long as in all fighters cases t most 3-4 fighters are needed then the 2 worst percieved fighters will always be sitting.

[Shredderr]

Gungo wrote:

Creve@Vox wrote:

When is the fighter revamp going to happen?

Technically speaking the fighter revamp was completely cancelled.

What SOE intends to do now is do minor updates/tweaks on classes. (buff up plan)I dont think they will ever intend to do a FULL scale revamp ever again.For one it always comes back negative as people overreact and cry about changes even if the majoirty of the changes are good.

So the most you can expect to see is focused changes like the guardian revamp. Which is tweaks and adjustments to existing abilites.

After that you can expect mechanic tweaks to ranged combat to help rangers.After that it is likely illusionist changes then probably, monk changes. These changes will happen in waves as they are done and in smaller bite size increments.

Can you give an idea as to what the monk changes may entail ? Or is it too early ?

[Cusashorn]

Shredderr wrote:

Gungo wrote:

Creve@Vox wrote:

When is the fighter revamp going to happen?

Technically speaking the fighter revamp was completely cancelled.

What SOE intends to do now is do minor updates/tweaks on classes. (buff up plan)I dont think they will ever intend to do a FULL scale revamp ever again.For one it always comes back negative as people overreact and cry about changes even if the majoirty of the changes are good.

So the most you can expect to see is focused changes like the guardian revamp. Which is tweaks and adjustments to existing abilites.

After that you can expect mechanic tweaks to ranged combat to help rangers.After that it is likely illusionist changes then probably, monk changes. These changes will happen in waves as they are done and in smaller bite size increments.

Can you give an idea as to what the monk changes may entail ? Or is it too early ?

February 31st, 2011. He was just speculating, as there aren't any announced plans to revamp any of these classes just yet, and we don't know what the next one may be after the first one actually is. Given the track record that monks get treated in this game, we'll just get more combat animation upgrades and say we're now balanced. :/

[Vortexelemental]

Revamp ? What Revamp?

When they start to sell character upgrades on the marketplace? That one?

[Landiin]

Shredderr wrote:

Gungo wrote:

Creve@Vox wrote:

When is the fighter revamp going to happen?

Technically speaking the fighter revamp was completely cancelled.

What SOE intends to do now is do minor updates/tweaks on classes. (buff up plan)I dont think they will ever intend to do a FULL scale revamp ever again.For one it always comes back negative as people overreact and cry about changes even if the majoirty of the changes are good.

So the most you can expect to see is focused changes like the guardian revamp. Which is tweaks and adjustments to existing abilites.

After that you can expect mechanic tweaks to ranged combat to help rangers.After that it is likely illusionist changes then probably, monk changes. These changes will happen in waves as they are done and in smaller bite size increments.

Can you give an idea as to what the monk changes may entail ? Or is it too early ?

I thought the was going to delete that class branch?

[Gungo]

Cusashorn wrote:

Shredderr wrote:

Gungo wrote:

Creve@Vox wrote:

When is the fighter revamp going to happen?

Technically speaking the fighter revamp was completely cancelled.

What SOE intends to do now is do minor updates/tweaks on classes. (buff up plan)I dont think they will ever intend to do a FULL scale revamp ever again.For one it always comes back negative as people overreact and cry about changes even if the majoirty of the changes are good.

So the most you can expect to see is focused changes like the guardian revamp. Which is tweaks and adjustments to existing abilites.

After that you can expect mechanic tweaks to ranged combat to help rangers.After that it is likely illusionist changes then probably, monk changes. These changes will happen in waves as they are done and in smaller bite size increments.

Can you give an idea as to what the monk changes may entail ? Or is it too early ?

February 31st, 2011. He was just speculating, as there aren't any announced plans to revamp any of these classes just yet, and we don't know what the next one may be after the first one actually is. Given the track record that monks get treated in this game, we'll just get more combat animation upgrades and say we're now balanced. :/

Um dude guardian changes are heading on test tonight or early next week. They have been posted all over.Ranger changes are heading to test tonight or early next week. They have been posted all over.Monk(brawler changes) have been posted by xelgad and should be on test tonight or early next week.

To answer his question.. all brawler will now recieve 20% aoe auto atk on cranetwirl as well as the proc. Furthermore brawler will GREATLY benefit from the changes to offhand weapons being allowed to aoe uto atk and flurry considering we are one of the few fighters able to dual wield and only fighter to do it tanking. Furthermore all 2 hand weapons are getting a 10% boost in DR.

[Xelgad]

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but only the Guardian, ranged and two handed changes (including Flurry/AE Auto-Attack for offhands and bows) are going to Test tonight or early next week. The other changes are slated for GU57.5 (or 57B, whichever it's being called these days!)

[Gungo]

Xelgad wrote:

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but only the Guardian, ranged and two handed changes (including Flurry/AE Auto-Attack for offhands and bows) are going to Test tonight or early next week. The other changes are slated for GU57.5 (or 57B, whichever it's being called these days!)

other then the 20% aoe auto to flurry what OTHER changes do you have planned

[Cusashorn]

Gungo wrote:

To answer his question.. all brawler will now recieve 20% aoe auto atk on cranetwirl as well as the proc. Furthermore brawler will GREATLY benefit from the changes to offhand weapons being allowed to aoe uto atk and flurry considering we are one of the few fighters able to dual wield and only fighter to do it tanking. Furthermore all 2 hand weapons are getting a 10% boost in DR.

Feel free to call me ignorant but how does automatic AOE attacking benefit our class in any way? I do NOT want to have a 20% chance to attack any other NPCs around me that I don't want to kill.

[Hikinami]

Cusashorn wrote:

Gungo wrote:

To answer his question.. all brawler will now recieve 20% aoe auto atk on cranetwirl as well as the proc. Furthermore brawler will GREATLY benefit from the changes to offhand weapons being allowed to aoe uto atk and flurry considering we are one of the few fighters able to dual wield and only fighter to do it tanking. Furthermore all 2 hand weapons are getting a 10% boost in DR.

Feel free to call me ignorant but how does automatic AOE attacking benefit our class in any way? I do NOT want to have a 20% chance to attack any other NPCs around me that I don't want to kill.

You can turn off crane twirl when you don't want to smack other things.

[Sydares]

Cusashorn wrote:

Gungo wrote:

To answer his question.. all brawler will now recieve 20% aoe auto atk on cranetwirl as well as the proc. Furthermore brawler will GREATLY benefit from the changes to offhand weapons being allowed to aoe uto atk and flurry considering we are one of the few fighters able to dual wield and only fighter to do it tanking. Furthermore all 2 hand weapons are getting a 10% boost in DR.

Feel free to call me ignorant but how does automatic AOE attacking benefit our class in any way? I do NOT want to have a 20% chance to attack any other NPCs around me that I don't want to kill.

Ignant, yo. You can turn it off.

[Cusashorn]

So basically they're going to be adding 20% auto attack to an achievement skill that not every monk uses?

[Azzad]

Cusashorn wrote:

So basically they're going to be adding 20% auto attack to an achievement skill that not every monk uses?

Its a skill in the AoE tree..so yes, if you want to do more AE attacks you need to take those skills.

[Gungo]

Cusashorn wrote:

So basically they're going to be adding 20% auto attack to an achievement skill that not every monk uses?

Honestly if you are not taking cranetwirl already. You dont care about your dps in the first place and this change is not intended for you.

[ke'la]

Gungo wrote:

Cusashorn wrote:

So basically they're going to be adding 20% auto attack to an achievement skill that not every monk uses?

Honestly if you are not taking cranetwirl already. You dont care about your dps in the first place and this change is not intended for you.

If you have ever read Cusa's posts he really isn't about dps, he is about his ablity to be an equivlant tank to all the other tanks available.

[Cusashorn]

^ Yep. Besides, I seriously don't know how cranetwirl can increase dps by that much. It's proc rate is what... 2% at it's first level?

[Gungo]

Its by far our biggest dps effect. 

[Wilin]

Gungo wrote:

Creve@Vox wrote:

When is the fighter revamp going to happen?

Technically speaking the fighter revamp was completely cancelled.

That's not true. At TSO launch, much of it was cancelled, but alot of it made it into the game with the promise that it would be split into 2 parts. The first part of the fighter revamp came with TSO, the second part is still pending.

The first part of the fighter revamp brought us super crusaders, the concept of AE vs. single target tanks, and the ruin of the guardian grip on raids.

[Gungo]

Xelgad wrote:

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but only the Guardian, ranged and two handed changes (including Flurry/AE Auto-Attack for offhands and bows) are going to Test tonight or early next week. The other changes are slated for GU57.5 (or 57B, whichever it's being called these days!)

Just a fyi, the 20% aoe auto atk has been pushed to test. 

[Cusashorn]

Once Velious comes out, I have a feeling that we'll be able to max out the original brawler tree anyway, so it's only a matter of time. Until then though, i'd rather not that the main focus of a monk rebalance involve strengthening an optional ability.

[Gungo]

Cusashorn wrote:

Once Velious comes out, I have a feeling that we'll be able to max out the original brawler tree anyway, so it's only a matter of time. Until then though, i'd rather not that the main focus of a monk rebalance involve strengthening an optional ability.

Like I said you can do whatever you like but crane twirl is our largest damage effect already.As a proc it helps both single target and aoe dps. As a true non encounter AOE proc it hits every npc in combat.Since it does that on AOE auto atks it will proc MULTIPLE times. Thus lets say you are in a fight with 4 npcs.Lets say you aoe auto, and lets say you proc crane twirl on EACH npc. This means each npc you are fighting can be hit up to 4x with the crane twirl proc in each auto atk or up to 16 procs in total on a single auto atk. 

Right now crane twirl at rank 10 for me at 76% potency on test is 850-1400damage with a 20% proc rate. Not alot of damage but my potency is low on test and after the change of aoe auto atk procing on offhands this ability will only get better. Not even including the addition of 20% aoe auto on this ability making it better. 

[Cusashorn]

Hmm. Wow. To be honest, I had just never considered the possibility of exploring AoE DPS. I'm not against the skill, but I've always found other skills to just be a bit more useful for my playstyle.

I'll load up a DPS profile with my mirror and try it out.

How the heck do you get 76% potency? I can't find any good gear to get me past 10%.

[Maveric_LOL]

Hey Xelgad, im glad to see that you have finished the guardian changes. Now thats out of the way, can you get around to ungimping my paladin heals as per your post below which i have quoted for reference.

Xelgad wrote:

First, let me reiterate that it's very important to us that abilities scale at a balanced rate.  As I posted in the test feedback forum, that was really the primary reason for the heal crit change.  It's a waste of time for us to balance abilities for a certain gear level if better gear next expansion is going to benefit some abilities more than others.  Overall, I think the change has helped the situation to a degree, but we are still working on fine tuning it.

It's very likely that Lay on Hands will become percent based in the future, and we'd like to change some of your other heals as well.  However, instead of shifting to more damage reduction/mitigation abilities, we would rather increase heal amount, increase cooldowns, and, perhaps, reduce the casting time of your heals/ward.  If we made those changes, casting your heals and ward every time they're up would result in lower total heals per second, but the abilities would be better for countering spike damage.

Feedback on this general idea would be appreciated.

Source: http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=483464

Since the nerf i have not bothered to cast my single target or group heal in raid at all after the first time i cast them and watched my hp bar not even move at all. I still cast my ward but thats mostly out of habit as its now 1/3 or less of the value it used to be.

Its getting kinda old running around with broken heals while waiting on you guys to fix it. If you intend to make changes then get the ball moving please.

[Landiin]

Maveric_LOL wrote:

Hey Xelgad, im glad to see that you have finished the guardian changes. Now thats out of the way, can you get around to ungimping my paladin heals as per your post below which i have quoted for reference.

Xelgad wrote:

First, let me reiterate that it's very important to us that abilities scale at a balanced rate.  As I posted in the test feedback forum, that was really the primary reason for the heal crit change.  It's a waste of time for us to balance abilities for a certain gear level if better gear next expansion is going to benefit some abilities more than others.  Overall, I think the change has helped the situation to a degree, but we are still working on fine tuning it.

It's very likely that Lay on Hands will become percent based in the future, and we'd like to change some of your other heals as well.  However, instead of shifting to more damage reduction/mitigation abilities, we would rather increase heal amount, increase cooldowns, and, perhaps, reduce the casting time of your heals/ward.  If we made those changes, casting your heals and ward every time they're up would result in lower total heals per second, but the abilities would be better for countering spike damage.

Feedback on this general idea would be appreciated.

Source: http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=483464

Since the nerf i have not bothered to cast my single target or group heal in raid at all after the first time i cast them and watched my hp bar not even move at all. I still cast my ward but thats mostly out of habit as its now 1/3 or less of the value it used to be.

Its getting kinda old running around with broken heals while waiting on you guys to fix it. If you intend to make changes then get the ball moving please.

They not broke, they still heal you no?.They are just not as good as before

[Jemoo]

The 20% that was planned by Xelgad, according to the post on the ranger forums, wasn't to AoE auto attack or flurry. It was getting rid of the invisible cap to damage on bows and two-handers (increasing their damage ratings). Along with that is the addition of AoE auto attack and flurry ability to bows, not an innate addition but the ability for it to be used. And now adding those to off-hand weapons to keep melee classes happy because a bows AoE/Flurry would be more powerful than the current primary-only use that they have.

[Maveric_LOL]

Toranx@Crushbone wrote:

Maveric_LOL wrote:

Hey Xelgad, im glad to see that you have finished the guardian changes. Now thats out of the way, can you get around to ungimping my paladin heals as per your post below which i have quoted for reference.

Xelgad wrote:

First, let me reiterate that it's very important to us that abilities scale at a balanced rate.  As I posted in the test feedback forum, that was really the primary reason for the heal crit change.  It's a waste of time for us to balance abilities for a certain gear level if better gear next expansion is going to benefit some abilities more than others.  Overall, I think the change has helped the situation to a degree, but we are still working on fine tuning it.

It's very likely that Lay on Hands will become percent based in the future, and we'd like to change some of your other heals as well.  However, instead of shifting to more damage reduction/mitigation abilities, we would rather increase heal amount, increase cooldowns, and, perhaps, reduce the casting time of your heals/ward.  If we made those changes, casting your heals and ward every time they're up would result in lower total heals per second, but the abilities would be better for countering spike damage.

Feedback on this general idea would be appreciated.

Source: http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=483464

Since the nerf i have not bothered to cast my single target or group heal in raid at all after the first time i cast them and watched my hp bar not even move at all. I still cast my ward but thats mostly out of habit as its now 1/3 or less of the value it used to be.

Its getting kinda old running around with broken heals while waiting on you guys to fix it. If you intend to make changes then get the ball moving please.

They not broke, they still heal you no?.They are just not as good as before

When my single target heal takes about a second to cast (which is a long time when in combat), is subject to being interupted and only heals for at most 2.5k in full potency gear when my total raid buffed HP is in the 30 - 32k ish range. then it is no longer worth casting, hell its no longer worth even having on the hotbar at that point and if thats the case then i would say that its broken.

[Landiin]

Maveric_LOL wrote:

Toranx@Crushbone wrote:

Maveric_LOL wrote:

Hey Xelgad, im glad to see that you have finished the guardian changes. Now thats out of the way, can you get around to ungimping my paladin heals as per your post below which i have quoted for reference.

Xelgad wrote:

First, let me reiterate that it's very important to us that abilities scale at a balanced rate.  As I posted in the test feedback forum, that was really the primary reason for the heal crit change.  It's a waste of time for us to balance abilities for a certain gear level if better gear next expansion is going to benefit some abilities more than others.  Overall, I think the change has helped the situation to a degree, but we are still working on fine tuning it.

It's very likely that Lay on Hands will become percent based in the future, and we'd like to change some of your other heals as well.  However, instead of shifting to more damage reduction/mitigation abilities, we would rather increase heal amount, increase cooldowns, and, perhaps, reduce the casting time of your heals/ward.  If we made those changes, casting your heals and ward every time they're up would result in lower total heals per second, but the abilities would be better for countering spike damage.

Feedback on this general idea would be appreciated.

Source: http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=483464

Since the nerf i have not bothered to cast my single target or group heal in raid at all after the first time i cast them and watched my hp bar not even move at all. I still cast my ward but thats mostly out of habit as its now 1/3 or less of the value it used to be.

Its getting kinda old running around with broken heals while waiting on you guys to fix it. If you intend to make changes then get the ball moving please.

They not broke, they still heal you no?.They are just not as good as before

When my single target heal takes about a second to cast (which is a long time when in combat), is subject to being interupted and only heals for at most 2.5k in full potency gear when my total raid buffed HP is in the 30 - 32k ish range. then it is no longer worth casting, hell its no longer worth even having on the hotbar at that point and if thats the case then i would say that its broken.

Still they are not broke, they are healing. You should ask for getting your heal amount upped or changed to a percentage base instead of QQ about them being broke. If I recall correctly Xelgad said they will be going over the pally's spells and adjusted as needed.