Kaladim

kelvmor · 05-26-2010, 01:22 AM

Now, I know they want to keep Kaladim a dungeon for at least a while longer, but some of the new quests for Kaladim have got me thinking.

There is little to no reason why the Irontoe Brigade hasn't reclaimed Kaladim yet, lore-wise. They're dwarves. They have better armor. Better weapons. Commander O.C. Irontoe even has the Stormhammer. Even willing to say that they could have easily wiped out the Yarpsnarls and Krukriel to at least take the gates. And, judging by the disordered Frothbark kobolds inside, it'd be easy for them to take the space between the First and Second gates. They'd only have to worry about the big trampler basilisks just inside the second gate. From there, it should be cake up untl the Avatar of Serilis. They might have some problems with that, but otherwise, the Irontoe Brigade is generally superior in equipment and numbers to take Kaladim.

Or have I missed something/am I exaggerating something?

Cusashorn · 05-26-2010, 01:28 AM

kelvmor wrote:

Now, I know they want to keep Kaladim a dungeon for at least a while longer, but some of the new quests for Kaladim have got me thinking.
There is little to no reason why the Irontoe Brigade hasn't reclaimed Kaladim yet, lore-wise. They're dwarves. They have better armor. Better weapons. Commander O.C. Irontoe even has the Stormhammer. Even willing to say that they could have easily wiped out the Yarpsnarls and Krukriel to at least take the gates. And, judging by the disordered Frothbark kobolds inside, it'd be easy for them to take the space between the First and Second gates. They'd only have to worry about the big trampler basilisks just inside the second gate. From there, it should be cake up untl the Avatar of Serilis. They might have some problems with that, but otherwise, the Irontoe Brigade is generally superior in equipment and numbers to take Kaladim.
Or have I missed something/am I exaggerating something?

For every one dwarf you see in the Irontoe Fort, there are 50 more Bugbears, Goblins, Kobolds, and Roekillik waiting inside Kaladim. The Horde of the Underfoot has numbers on their side, and equal armor and weapons.

This goes for game mechanics too. There really are more mobs inside Kaladim than there are dwarves in all of Butcherblock.

Meirril · 05-26-2010, 05:13 AM

Not to mention that the Frothbark Kobalts are basically lunatics at the gates that are used for an early warning system more than actual defense. No the real defense is the guards at the gate and the goblins throwing explosives out of the two towers.

Have you ever been hit by those explosives? Last time I was it did percentage damage. Took me into the yellow from full health. Now imagine your fighting a bunch of lunatics and a cannon hits the group of you. Sure, those lunatics get finished off in the blast but your no better off. And there are more lunatics comming to hold you down for the next shot...

Not saying it is an impregnable defence, just that Kaladim has a reasonable defense that should intimidate the small force left in Butcherblock.

teddyboy4 · 05-26-2010, 11:59 AM

As sad as it may be, the Dwarves just aren't able to take back Kaladim by force at this time. I think the only way for the Dwarves to reclaim Kaladim is to get back in the good graces of Brell. Well, tbh I don't remember if is Brell is, or isn't happy w/ the Dwarves atm, but he is obviously favoring his other creations in the Underfoot more right now, or they never would've been able to take over Kaladim in the first place.

But yeah, the Dwarves face nearly insurmountable numbers of Underfoot denizens that now occupy Kaladim, not to mention the virtually limitless numbers of back-up they have at beck-and-call down in the Underfoot itself, and then of course there is the Avatar of Brell himself...but I don't think the majority of the Dwarves would even engage the Avatar of Brell, they may have lost their faith when the gods withdrew, but I have a feeling they certainly believe in his power now.

I just don't see any way for them to retake Kaladim without the blessing of Brell, which I don't think is impossible, but for the moment it's improbable methinks. I don't know though, I really don't think it's very fair of Brell to be upset w/ the Dwarves for losing faith during the cataclysms and such. I mean, his creations in The Underfoot were able to remain faithfull b/c of The Underfoot being directly connected to Brell's plane and kind of had proof that he was still around, somewhere. But the Dwarves didn't even have that. But, they are gods so they probably don't take such things into account...

Cusashorn · 05-26-2010, 12:22 PM

Eandiil@Lucan DLere wrote:

As sad as it may be, the Dwarves just aren't able to take back Kaladim by force at this time. I think the only way for the Dwarves to reclaim Kaladim is to get back in the good graces of Brell. Well, tbh I don't remember if is Brell is, or isn't happy w/ the Dwarves atm, but he is obviously favoring his other creations in the Underfoot more right now, or they never would've been able to take over Kaladim in the first place.
But yeah, the Dwarves face nearly insurmountable numbers of Underfoot denizens that now occupy Kaladim, not to mention the virtually limitless numbers of back-up they have at beck-and-call down in the Underfoot itself, and then of course there is the Avatar of Brell himself...but I don't think the majority of the Dwarves would even engage the Avatar of Brell, they may have lost their faith when the gods withdrew, but I have a feeling they certainly believe in his power now.
I just don't see any way for them to retake Kaladim without the blessing of Brell, which I don't think is impossible, but for the moment it's improbable methinks. I don't know though, I really don't think it's very fair of Brell to be upset w/ the Dwarves for losing faith during the cataclysms and such. I mean, his creations in The Underfoot were able to remain faithfull b/c of The Underfoot being directly connected to Brell's plane and kind of had proof that he was still around, somewhere. But the Dwarves didn't even have that. But, they are gods so they probably don't take such things into account...

Brell has created: Dwarves, Gnomes, Goblins, Gnolls, Kobolds, Bugbear, Roekillik, Ratonga, Burynai, Boarfiends, numerous elemental rockmen, and I'm sure we'll continue to meet new creations into the future.

With that many "children", I seriously don't see Brell being able to favor any of them over any other... or even care about any of them over any other.

Sure, the Horde of the Underfoot brags that they were inspired and blessed by Brell when they took over Kaladim, but he really had nothing to do with anything. He leaves his races to their own devices. I think the only reason he helped out during 2nd Rallosian War was because another race enslaved one of his own *AND* was using them for kamikaze tactics. He would have been fine with the enslavement part, but setting them on fire and making them run in with explosives was the last straw.

He has no problem if a Brell race takes over another Brell race though.

Meirril · 05-27-2010, 12:30 AM

Eandiil@Lucan DLere wrote:

As sad as it may be, the Dwarves just aren't able to take back Kaladim by force at this time. I think the only way for the Dwarves to reclaim Kaladim is to get back in the good graces of Brell. Well, tbh I don't remember if is Brell is, or isn't happy w/ the Dwarves atm, but he is obviously favoring his other creations in the Underfoot more right now, or they never would've been able to take over Kaladim in the first place.
But yeah, the Dwarves face nearly insurmountable numbers of Underfoot denizens that now occupy Kaladim, not to mention the virtually limitless numbers of back-up they have at beck-and-call down in the Underfoot itself, and then of course there is the Avatar of Brell himself...but I don't think the majority of the Dwarves would even engage the Avatar of Brell, they may have lost their faith when the gods withdrew, but I have a feeling they certainly believe in his power now.
I just don't see any way for them to retake Kaladim without the blessing of Brell, which I don't think is impossible, but for the moment it's improbable methinks. I don't know though, I really don't think it's very fair of Brell to be upset w/ the Dwarves for losing faith during the cataclysms and such. I mean, his creations in The Underfoot were able to remain faithfull b/c of The Underfoot being directly connected to Brell's plane and kind of had proof that he was still around, somewhere. But the Dwarves didn't even have that. But, they are gods so they probably don't take such things into account...

Before the invasion, Kaladim was mostly abandoned by the dwarves. The king himself lead the dwarves on a quest to seek the Vault of Below, the most holly place rumored to exist in dwarven legends. The dwarves never lost faith in Brell, they went off to seek Brell in his absence!

The tiny force of dwarves left to guard Kaladim in their absence might have been able to hold the gates of Kaladim, but the couldn't stop this invasion because they tunneled in behind their defenses. By the time they realized Kaladim was under attack the hord had huge numbers inside the halls of Kaladim. It was a testimate to their fighting ability that any defenders survived at all.

Brell won't give his blessings to the dwarves to retake Kaladim. After all, they are opposed by Brell's other creations that are just as faithful as the dwarves have ever been. Kaladim could be retaken if the King and all those followers returned, but that is unlikely. Something happened to them. Either they found the vault, or something bad happened to them. If they found the vault, you would expect them to send messengers to gather the other dwarves. So, most likely something bad happened to them, or they are camped around what they believe is the entrance to the vault and are still attempting to open it. Whatever information they gathered, they believe they found it or the King wouldn't have abandoned Kaladim.

Illmarr · 05-27-2010, 10:44 AM

I'd always been under the impression that while the pantheon was active in Norrath the Dwarves were Brell's favored creation. Perhaps this knowledge led both to resentment from his other creations and kept said creations from acting upon that resentment.

With Brell and the rest of the Pantheon departed, that left the door open for the Horde to band together and act upon their resentment of the Dwarves. Once the Pantheon returned, while the Dwarves may have been Brell's favored perhaps he couldn't find it in himself to take a side as his children were in conflict?

Zabjade · 05-27-2010, 11:16 AM

Perhaps he felt the Dwarves needed a push to colonize more areas, they tend to be homebodies other then a few Adventurers. Leaving Kaladim to be populated for now by the more unruly of the Underground races, hoping that it will civilize them?

Known Dwarven Settlements since the expulsion from Kaladim. Thurgadin is a possibility, New Halas, Learning to live in Trees (Kelethin), Graystone Yard.

Now The Dwarves of Qeynos are trying to make allies with the Gnolls in Antonica (well they where at once time)

Sorry may organize my thoughts better later.

Rainmare · 05-27-2010, 11:22 AM

actually when the pantheon was active, ask 5 different members of brells races who Brell favors and you'd get five different answers. though I must say that Brell usually taking the appearance of a dwarf in his planar or avatar forms does lean things more toward the dwarves.

But brell himself has never placed one of his children at higher standing then another officially.

and Yes, the king and the bulk of the army/city did go seeking the Vault...supposedly led by a vision to seek it out. So it could have been Brell never intended there to be dwarves left in Kaladim...expecting them all to pack up and go to where the vision woudl take them, and forge a new city there...and then the horde coudl take Kaladim itself. a kinda of bringing his dwarven 'favorites' to a better place, and letting his other races get the 'hand me down' city to appease them.

Mary the Prophetess · 05-27-2010, 11:53 AM

I am reminded of a scene from 13th warrior:

When handed a viking sword, Ahmed complains,

"I can't lift this"

To which Heger responds,

"Grow stronger."

Brell Serelis to the Irontoe Brigade:

"Grow stronger."

Meirril · 05-27-2010, 07:51 PM

Rainmare@Oasis wrote:

actually when the pantheon was active, ask 5 different members of brells races who Brell favors and you'd get five different answers. though I must say that Brell usually taking the appearance of a dwarf in his planar or avatar forms does lean things more toward the dwarves.
But brell himself has never placed one of his children at higher standing then another officially.
and Yes, the king and the bulk of the army/city did go seeking the Vault...supposedly led by a vision to seek it out. So it could have been Brell never intended there to be dwarves left in Kaladim...expecting them all to pack up and go to where the vision woudl take them, and forge a new city there...and then the horde coudl take Kaladim itself. a kinda of bringing his dwarven 'favorites' to a better place, and letting his other races get the 'hand me down' city to appease them.

Why does anyone thing Brell is involved in this buisness anyways? Strangely...the Kobolts managed to pull the hord together and there is strong evidence that the Roklikk tricked the rest into beliving it was a holy crusade while working for their false god.

kelvmor · 05-28-2010, 11:32 AM

Okay. According to 'The New Path', an in-game book, the roekillik/ratonga things duped the other Brell-worshipping races (And the goblins, who worship and were created by Bolgin Serilis, Brell's twisted brother in the halls of Golm in the Underfoot) into believing that Brell/Bolgin Serilis had given them their blessing into undertaking a holy crusade against the dwarves of Kaladim. Which was a big fat lie. Brell prefers the gnolls and the dwarves over his other creations; it's been so since Brell gave Dagnor Butcherblock, First King of Kaladim, the Stormhammer, and gave the gift of a shirt of blessed ringmail and a special ore to be extracted from Kaladim's mines. In EverQuest II, the gnolls had kept their faith to Brell during his absense, giving them a special place in Brell's heart.

Seeing that the Avatar of Below is a giant dwarf, it's safe to assume that Brell still favors the dwarves over his other creations, though with gnolls coming in as a close second. Meaning, the dwarves have the favor of Brell while the Serilian Horde worships a false Brell in the form of the Avatar of Serilis.

Again, the kobolds* did not pull the Horde together. It was all the work of the roekillik/ratonga peoples.

When there is a war between races created by a member of the Serilis family, Brell usually gets involved somehow. And by all accounts, the dwarves have the favor of Brell. So you have that down. I think this is just a problem of numbers, and the fact that the Horde's main footsoldiers, bugbears, are basically hairy, bearded ogres. Which are bigger and more physically imposing than a dwarf. Not to mention the couple of ettins and a few minotaurs they have.

Cusashorn · 05-28-2010, 11:42 AM

Brell's avatar is a mortal given divine powers. He appears a dwarf because the mortal is a dwarf. Gods can take on the appearance of anything they want us to see, and as I mentioned, Brell has created so many races that he doesn't care anymore unless someone else outside of his own creations starts to defile his own, such as setting gnolls on fire while strapped with explosive. The Dwarves were the first, but that doesn't mean they're his favorite. it doesn't mean he gave his blessing to the horde either.

Meirril · 05-29-2010, 09:36 AM

kelvmor wrote:

Okay. According to 'The New Path', an in-game book, the roekillik/ratonga things duped the other Brell-worshipping races (And the goblins, who worship and were created by Bolgin Serilis, Brell's twisted brother in the halls of Golm in the Underfoot) into believing that Brell/Bolgin Serilis had given them their blessing into undertaking a holy crusade against the dwarves of Kaladim. Which was a big fat lie. Brell prefers the gnolls and the dwarves over his other creations; it's been so since Brell gave Dagnor Butcherblock, First King of Kaladim, the Stormhammer, and gave the gift of a shirt of blessed ringmail and a special ore to be extracted from Kaladim's mines. In EverQuest II, the gnolls had kept their faith to Brell during his absense, giving them a special place in Brell's heart.
Seeing that the Avatar of Below is a giant dwarf, it's safe to assume that Brell still favors the dwarves over his other creations, though with gnolls coming in as a close second. Meaning, the dwarves have the favor of Brell while the Serilian Horde worships a false Brell in the form of the Avatar of Serilis.
Again, the kobolds* did not pull the Horde together. It was all the work of the roekillik/ratonga peoples.
When there is a war between races created by a member of the Serilis family, Brell usually gets involved somehow. And by all accounts, the dwarves have the favor of Brell. So you have that down. I think this is just a problem of numbers, and the fact that the Horde's main footsoldiers, bugbears, are basically hairy, bearded ogres. Which are bigger and more physically imposing than a dwarf. Not to mention the couple of ettins and a few minotaurs they have.

Find a copy of the Kobolt L&L book and give it a read and you'll know how the Kobolts were involved in putting together the hord.

kelvmor · 05-31-2010, 10:47 AM

Cusashorn wrote:

Brell's avatar is a mortal given divine powers. He appears a dwarf because the mortal is a dwarf. Gods can take on the appearance of anything they want us to see, and as I mentioned, Brell has created so many races that he doesn't care anymore unless someone else outside of his own creations starts to defile his own, such as setting gnolls on fire while strapped with explosive. The Dwarves were the first, but that doesn't mean they're his favorite. it doesn't mean he gave his blessing to the horde either.

This is true. And dwarves weren't the first of Brell's children. He made the gnolls, bugbears, and kobolds first, then the dwarves, gnomes, and roekillik/ratonga.

05-26-2010, 01:28 AM	#2
Cusashorn Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cheeseland, USA Posts: 14,919	kelvmor wrote: Now, I know they want to keep Kaladim a dungeon for at least a while longer, but some of the new quests for Kaladim have got me thinking. There is little to no reason why the Irontoe Brigade hasn't reclaimed Kaladim yet, lore-wise. They're dwarves. They have better armor. Better weapons. Commander O.C. Irontoe even has the Stormhammer. Even willing to say that they could have easily wiped out the Yarpsnarls and Krukriel to at least take the gates. And, judging by the disordered Frothbark kobolds inside, it'd be easy for them to take the space between the First and Second gates. They'd only have to worry about the big trampler basilisks just inside the second gate. From there, it should be cake up untl the Avatar of Serilis. They might have some problems with that, but otherwise, the Irontoe Brigade is generally superior in equipment and numbers to take Kaladim. Or have I missed something/am I exaggerating something? For every one dwarf you see in the Irontoe Fort, there are 50 more Bugbears, Goblins, Kobolds, and Roekillik waiting inside Kaladim. The Horde of the Underfoot has numbers on their side, and equal armor and weapons. This goes for game mechanics too. There really are more mobs inside Kaladim than there are dwarves in all of Butcherblock.

05-26-2010, 11:59 AM	#4
teddyboy4 General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 299	As sad as it may be, the Dwarves just aren't able to take back Kaladim by force at this time. I think the only way for the Dwarves to reclaim Kaladim is to get back in the good graces of Brell. Well, tbh I don't remember if is Brell is, or isn't happy w/ the Dwarves atm, but he is obviously favoring his other creations in the Underfoot more right now, or they never would've been able to take over Kaladim in the first place. But yeah, the Dwarves face nearly insurmountable numbers of Underfoot denizens that now occupy Kaladim, not to mention the virtually limitless numbers of back-up they have at beck-and-call down in the Underfoot itself, and then of course there is the Avatar of Brell himself...but I don't think the majority of the Dwarves would even engage the Avatar of Brell, they may have lost their faith when the gods withdrew, but I have a feeling they certainly believe in his power now. I just don't see any way for them to retake Kaladim without the blessing of Brell, which I don't think is impossible, but for the moment it's improbable methinks. I don't know though, I really don't think it's very fair of Brell to be upset w/ the Dwarves for losing faith during the cataclysms and such. I mean, his creations in The Underfoot were able to remain faithfull b/c of The Underfoot being directly connected to Brell's plane and kind of had proof that he was still around, somewhere. But the Dwarves didn't even have that. But, they are gods so they probably don't take such things into account... __________________

05-26-2010, 12:22 PM	#5
Cusashorn Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cheeseland, USA Posts: 14,919	Eandiil@Lucan DLere wrote: As sad as it may be, the Dwarves just aren't able to take back Kaladim by force at this time. I think the only way for the Dwarves to reclaim Kaladim is to get back in the good graces of Brell. Well, tbh I don't remember if is Brell is, or isn't happy w/ the Dwarves atm, but he is obviously favoring his other creations in the Underfoot more right now, or they never would've been able to take over Kaladim in the first place. But yeah, the Dwarves face nearly insurmountable numbers of Underfoot denizens that now occupy Kaladim, not to mention the virtually limitless numbers of back-up they have at beck-and-call down in the Underfoot itself, and then of course there is the Avatar of Brell himself...but I don't think the majority of the Dwarves would even engage the Avatar of Brell, they may have lost their faith when the gods withdrew, but I have a feeling they certainly believe in his power now. I just don't see any way for them to retake Kaladim without the blessing of Brell, which I don't think is impossible, but for the moment it's improbable methinks. I don't know though, I really don't think it's very fair of Brell to be upset w/ the Dwarves for losing faith during the cataclysms and such. I mean, his creations in The Underfoot were able to remain faithfull b/c of The Underfoot being directly connected to Brell's plane and kind of had proof that he was still around, somewhere. But the Dwarves didn't even have that. But, they are gods so they probably don't take such things into account... Brell has created: Dwarves, Gnomes, Goblins, Gnolls, Kobolds, Bugbear, Roekillik, Ratonga, Burynai, Boarfiends, numerous elemental rockmen, and I'm sure we'll continue to meet new creations into the future. With that many "children", I seriously don't see Brell being able to favor any of them over any other... or even care about any of them over any other. Sure, the Horde of the Underfoot brags that they were inspired and blessed by Brell when they took over Kaladim, but he really had nothing to do with anything. He leaves his races to their own devices. I think the only reason he helped out during 2nd Rallosian War was because another race enslaved one of his own AND was using them for kamikaze tactics. He would have been fine with the enslavement part, but setting them on fire and making them run in with explosives was the last straw. He has no problem if a Brell race takes over another Brell race though.

05-27-2010, 12:30 AM	#6
Meirril Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 3,552	Eandiil@Lucan DLere wrote: As sad as it may be, the Dwarves just aren't able to take back Kaladim by force at this time. I think the only way for the Dwarves to reclaim Kaladim is to get back in the good graces of Brell. Well, tbh I don't remember if is Brell is, or isn't happy w/ the Dwarves atm, but he is obviously favoring his other creations in the Underfoot more right now, or they never would've been able to take over Kaladim in the first place. But yeah, the Dwarves face nearly insurmountable numbers of Underfoot denizens that now occupy Kaladim, not to mention the virtually limitless numbers of back-up they have at beck-and-call down in the Underfoot itself, and then of course there is the Avatar of Brell himself...but I don't think the majority of the Dwarves would even engage the Avatar of Brell, they may have lost their faith when the gods withdrew, but I have a feeling they certainly believe in his power now. I just don't see any way for them to retake Kaladim without the blessing of Brell, which I don't think is impossible, but for the moment it's improbable methinks. I don't know though, I really don't think it's very fair of Brell to be upset w/ the Dwarves for losing faith during the cataclysms and such. I mean, his creations in The Underfoot were able to remain faithfull b/c of The Underfoot being directly connected to Brell's plane and kind of had proof that he was still around, somewhere. But the Dwarves didn't even have that. But, they are gods so they probably don't take such things into account... Before the invasion, Kaladim was mostly abandoned by the dwarves. The king himself lead the dwarves on a quest to seek the Vault of Below, the most holly place rumored to exist in dwarven legends. The dwarves never lost faith in Brell, they went off to seek Brell in his absence! The tiny force of dwarves left to guard Kaladim in their absence might have been able to hold the gates of Kaladim, but the couldn't stop this invasion because they tunneled in behind their defenses. By the time they realized Kaladim was under attack the hord had huge numbers inside the halls of Kaladim. It was a testimate to their fighting ability that any defenders survived at all. Brell won't give his blessings to the dwarves to retake Kaladim. After all, they are opposed by Brell's other creations that are just as faithful as the dwarves have ever been. Kaladim could be retaken if the King and all those followers returned, but that is unlikely. Something happened to them. Either they found the vault, or something bad happened to them. If they found the vault, you would expect them to send messengers to gather the other dwarves. So, most likely something bad happened to them, or they are camped around what they believe is the entrance to the vault and are still attempting to open it. Whatever information they gathered, they believe they found it or the King wouldn't have abandoned Kaladim.

05-27-2010, 11:16 AM	#8
Zabjade Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 4,631	Perhaps he felt the Dwarves needed a push to colonize more areas, they tend to be homebodies other then a few Adventurers. Leaving Kaladim to be populated for now by the more unruly of the Underground races, hoping that it will civilize them? Known Dwarven Settlements since the expulsion from Kaladim. Thurgadin is a possibility, New Halas, Learning to live in Trees (Kelethin), Graystone Yard. Now The Dwarves of Qeynos are trying to make allies with the Gnolls in Antonica (well they where at once time) Sorry may organize my thoughts better later. __________________

05-26-2010, 01:22 AM	#1
kelvmor Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 1,036	Now, I know they want to keep Kaladim a dungeon for at least a while longer, but some of the new quests for Kaladim have got me thinking. There is little to no reason why the Irontoe Brigade hasn't reclaimed Kaladim yet, lore-wise. They're dwarves. They have better armor. Better weapons. Commander O.C. Irontoe even has the Stormhammer. Even willing to say that they could have easily wiped out the Yarpsnarls and Krukriel to at least take the gates. And, judging by the disordered Frothbark kobolds inside, it'd be easy for them to take the space between the First and Second gates. They'd only have to worry about the big trampler basilisks just inside the second gate. From there, it should be cake up untl the Avatar of Serilis. They might have some problems with that, but otherwise, the Irontoe Brigade is generally superior in equipment and numbers to take Kaladim. Or have I missed something/am I exaggerating something?

05-26-2010, 05:13 AM	#3
Meirril Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 3,552	Not to mention that the Frothbark Kobalts are basically lunatics at the gates that are used for an early warning system more than actual defense. No the real defense is the guards at the gate and the goblins throwing explosives out of the two towers. Have you ever been hit by those explosives? Last time I was it did percentage damage. Took me into the yellow from full health. Now imagine your fighting a bunch of lunatics and a cannon hits the group of you. Sure, those lunatics get finished off in the blast but your no better off. And there are more lunatics comming to hold you down for the next shot... Not saying it is an impregnable defence, just that Kaladim has a reasonable defense that should intimidate the small force left in Butcherblock.

05-27-2010, 10:44 AM	#7
Illmarr Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 1,448	I'd always been under the impression that while the pantheon was active in Norrath the Dwarves were Brell's favored creation. Perhaps this knowledge led both to resentment from his other creations and kept said creations from acting upon that resentment. With Brell and the rest of the Pantheon departed, that left the door open for the Horde to band together and act upon their resentment of the Dwarves. Once the Pantheon returned, while the Dwarves may have been Brell's favored perhaps he couldn't find it in himself to take a side as his children were in conflict?

05-27-2010, 11:22 AM	#9
Rainmare Server: Oasis Guild: Pillage Rank: Captain Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,982	actually when the pantheon was active, ask 5 different members of brells races who Brell favors and you'd get five different answers. though I must say that Brell usually taking the appearance of a dwarf in his planar or avatar forms does lean things more toward the dwarves. But brell himself has never placed one of his children at higher standing then another officially. and Yes, the king and the bulk of the army/city did go seeking the Vault...supposedly led by a vision to seek it out. So it could have been Brell never intended there to be dwarves left in Kaladim...expecting them all to pack up and go to where the vision woudl take them, and forge a new city there...and then the horde coudl take Kaladim itself. a kinda of bringing his dwarven 'favorites' to a better place, and letting his other races get the 'hand me down' city to appease them.

05-27-2010, 11:53 AM	#10
Mary the Prophetess Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,472	I am reminded of a scene from 13th warrior: When handed a viking sword, Ahmed complains, "I can't lift this" To which Heger responds, "Grow stronger." Brell Serelis to the Irontoe Brigade: "Grow stronger."

05-27-2010, 07:51 PM	#11
Meirril Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 3,552	Rainmare@Oasis wrote: actually when the pantheon was active, ask 5 different members of brells races who Brell favors and you'd get five different answers. though I must say that Brell usually taking the appearance of a dwarf in his planar or avatar forms does lean things more toward the dwarves. But brell himself has never placed one of his children at higher standing then another officially. and Yes, the king and the bulk of the army/city did go seeking the Vault...supposedly led by a vision to seek it out. So it could have been Brell never intended there to be dwarves left in Kaladim...expecting them all to pack up and go to where the vision woudl take them, and forge a new city there...and then the horde coudl take Kaladim itself. a kinda of bringing his dwarven 'favorites' to a better place, and letting his other races get the 'hand me down' city to appease them. Why does anyone thing Brell is involved in this buisness anyways? Strangely...the Kobolts managed to pull the hord together and there is strong evidence that the Roklikk tricked the rest into beliving it was a holy crusade while working for their false god.

05-28-2010, 11:32 AM	#12
kelvmor Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 1,036	Okay. According to 'The New Path', an in-game book, the roekillik/ratonga things duped the other Brell-worshipping races (And the goblins, who worship and were created by Bolgin Serilis, Brell's twisted brother in the halls of Golm in the Underfoot) into believing that Brell/Bolgin Serilis had given them their blessing into undertaking a holy crusade against the dwarves of Kaladim. Which was a big fat lie. Brell prefers the gnolls and the dwarves over his other creations; it's been so since Brell gave Dagnor Butcherblock, First King of Kaladim, the Stormhammer, and gave the gift of a shirt of blessed ringmail and a special ore to be extracted from Kaladim's mines. In EverQuest II, the gnolls had kept their faith to Brell during his absense, giving them a special place in Brell's heart. Seeing that the Avatar of Below is a giant dwarf, it's safe to assume that Brell still favors the dwarves over his other creations, though with gnolls coming in as a close second. Meaning, the dwarves have the favor of Brell while the Serilian Horde worships a false Brell in the form of the Avatar of Serilis. Again, the kobolds* did not pull the Horde together. It was all the work of the roekillik/ratonga peoples. When there is a war between races created by a member of the Serilis family, Brell usually gets involved somehow. And by all accounts, the dwarves have the favor of Brell. So you have that down. I think this is just a problem of numbers, and the fact that the Horde's main footsoldiers, bugbears, are basically hairy, bearded ogres. Which are bigger and more physically imposing than a dwarf. Not to mention the couple of ettins and a few minotaurs they have.

05-28-2010, 11:42 AM	#13
Cusashorn Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cheeseland, USA Posts: 14,919	Brell's avatar is a mortal given divine powers. He appears a dwarf because the mortal is a dwarf. Gods can take on the appearance of anything they want us to see, and as I mentioned, Brell has created so many races that he doesn't care anymore unless someone else outside of his own creations starts to defile his own, such as setting gnolls on fire while strapped with explosive. The Dwarves were the first, but that doesn't mean they're his favorite. it doesn't mean he gave his blessing to the horde either.

05-29-2010, 09:36 AM	#14
Meirril Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 3,552	kelvmor wrote: Okay. According to 'The New Path', an in-game book, the roekillik/ratonga things duped the other Brell-worshipping races (And the goblins, who worship and were created by Bolgin Serilis, Brell's twisted brother in the halls of Golm in the Underfoot) into believing that Brell/Bolgin Serilis had given them their blessing into undertaking a holy crusade against the dwarves of Kaladim. Which was a big fat lie. Brell prefers the gnolls and the dwarves over his other creations; it's been so since Brell gave Dagnor Butcherblock, First King of Kaladim, the Stormhammer, and gave the gift of a shirt of blessed ringmail and a special ore to be extracted from Kaladim's mines. In EverQuest II, the gnolls had kept their faith to Brell during his absense, giving them a special place in Brell's heart. Seeing that the Avatar of Below is a giant dwarf, it's safe to assume that Brell still favors the dwarves over his other creations, though with gnolls coming in as a close second. Meaning, the dwarves have the favor of Brell while the Serilian Horde worships a false Brell in the form of the Avatar of Serilis. Again, the kobolds* did not pull the Horde together. It was all the work of the roekillik/ratonga peoples. When there is a war between races created by a member of the Serilis family, Brell usually gets involved somehow. And by all accounts, the dwarves have the favor of Brell. So you have that down. I think this is just a problem of numbers, and the fact that the Horde's main footsoldiers, bugbears, are basically hairy, bearded ogres. Which are bigger and more physically imposing than a dwarf. Not to mention the couple of ettins and a few minotaurs they have. Find a copy of the Kobolt L&L book and give it a read and you'll know how the Kobolts were involved in putting together the hord.

05-31-2010, 10:47 AM	#15
kelvmor Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 1,036	Cusashorn wrote: Brell's avatar is a mortal given divine powers. He appears a dwarf because the mortal is a dwarf. Gods can take on the appearance of anything they want us to see, and as I mentioned, Brell has created so many races that he doesn't care anymore unless someone else outside of his own creations starts to defile his own, such as setting gnolls on fire while strapped with explosive. The Dwarves were the first, but that doesn't mean they're his favorite. it doesn't mean he gave his blessing to the horde either. This is true. And dwarves weren't the first of Brell's children. He made the gnolls, bugbears, and kobolds first, then the dwarves, gnomes, and roekillik/ratonga.