Soe wants to kill Mystics?

Farsong · 04-12-2010, 09:04 AM

Hello.

Im new to this forum as a poster but i played tons as a raid mystic in one of hardcore raid guilds. And the reason i decided to make this topic is simple - i run out of patience. Does SOE want us to switch to another classes? I understand that warding is a strong mechanic, but is it a reason to make mystic trashclass? We heal worse, cure worse, buff worse then most of raid healers, and debuffs are nearly useless. We get interrupted and stifled where clerics keep casting all they want, we have to cure dots click by click where other healers just use their second groupcure ability, we try to comfort ourselves that bolster is still worth something because it buffs stats, but its clear it is a drop of say incquisitors buffs. The only good stuff is stompede which makes us utility class in offtank group to buff bards. Thats not enough! More then that, even wards dont work now on couple encounters, i.e. Theer (and there our last hope, AE rez doesnt work properly as well).

Most of AAs and red adorns are pathertic. They either buff useless spells (most of mystic spells) or buff usefull ones in a useless way, like casting speed, which is maxed anyway. The only nice red adorn is 10%crit bonus to stances but for wards its just 1/2 that good. And you can just throw away all other class specific red adorns - wont really affect your heal abilities.

Even red adorn sets are revamped last for shamans (and set chest from easy Theer isnt revamped yet).

Yes, mystic still can heal his group, but where inquisitor makes 15k dps and keeps everyone alive with groupcure+groupheal+mythic groupcure chain, mystic can barely find a window to throw 1-2 debuffs. Thats just not fair.

Support warder with 2 buffs and million trash spells - is not a class someone would want to play!

I dont know if devs read this forum but maybe there is a small chance they do.

KatrinaDeath · 04-12-2010, 11:47 AM

Press "K" to see the rest of your abilities.

Bolster, Sentry, 6 Debuffs that reduce STA, resists, DPS and Haste, Oberon(sp).

Pretty sure I was using those the other day in Palace.

Mystics are far from "trash" or "pathetic," maybe you are playing the wrong class.

Farsong · 04-12-2010, 12:21 PM

Sentry completely useless, stats debuffs nearly useless, dps, haste and resist debuffs can be applied, but maxxed in raid without mystic easy.

Bolster is OK buff, but nothing great (and SF AA into it in eof tree doesnt really make it stronger since its all capped without it). Oberon? Its a very strong ward, but only for 16 seconds with big reuse, does it really makes class? also you nearly never use it while solo healing group.

I dont say you cant use abilities you stated. I just say they dont matter most of time.

Compare mystic and any cleric! We are becoming trash and pathetic.

And no, i play mystic for a long long time and know class well enough to judge.

But thats all old news. 3 things made me run out of paitence: 1) hard mobs are all interrupting and stifling, and shamans suffer of it alot while clerics dont care 2) shamans red slot stuff fixed latest, and not always and atop of all prevous 3) they started to make mob spells that ignore wards.

AziBam · 04-12-2010, 01:09 PM

You realize there are those who feel we are flat out OP and at the top of the healing chain right now? I don't agree with that statement but I do feel we are in a pretty good position. I'm not sure why you dismiss all of those spells/abilities. If you aren't using them I guess I can see why you feel [Removed for Content].

I actually brought this toon out of a semi-retirement just because I liked the changes. /shrug Would I love steadfast? Sure. Although, in truth if I could have any one cleric ability it would probably be shield ally instead.

I know I go through phases where I just get bored with a class or toon. Maybe your issue is less with mystics in general and more with wanting something different? Roll a cleric. Have fun with it. They are awesome too! SMILEY

Banditman · 04-12-2010, 01:31 PM

Don't feed the trolls. I'm just sayin . . .

Farsong · 04-12-2010, 03:43 PM

Sorry, but its not like im trolling or seek flame. Im stuck on mystic because of my RL but still i like mystic more then cleric (i have one). Im just finally [Removed for Content] of nerfing my class while busting similar ones. Im buff, topgeared, can heal everything, but still [Removed for Content] of such situation.

Banadux · 04-12-2010, 08:44 PM

I think there is a valid point on the debuffs. I know at least once I saw a thread about dispatch and related caps to what you can debuff. I'm sure the caps exist for every possible debuff (not sure what they all are).

If it turns out that the combination of other classes that do attack + debuff in one hit already has the mob debuffed to max then it makes our debuff only spells seem a waste. IF that is the case, and I'm speculating, then a simple solution would be to add damage to our debuffs.

I'm sure some people are hardcore enough with stats to know all the debuff caps and what all the classes debuff. It may or may not be an issue, but like I said if we're not effectively doing anything with our debuffs a change of some sort would be appropriate.

Arcanemundi · 04-13-2010, 08:04 PM

You can find threads like this one in every class forum, posted over time by various players upset with their class, or sub-class. The grass is always greener on the other side, and it takes all character classes working together to pull off an encounter with tough mobs. Even if our debuffs are occasionally redundant, or our wards get occasionally ignored by strikethroughs, we still need to cast them. Clerics could make the argument that they don't need to cast all their reactives since Shaman wards absorb so much damage, but ofcourse they would be wrong. Proactive healing is a must if you want to perform well as a healer.

I believe that Mystics are one of the strongest and most versatile healers in the game. Clerics are very powerful also, maybe more powerful than Shamans in some ways, but Clerics are even more useful when paired with a Mystic or Defiler. It isn't right to say one is better than the other, both have their strengths and are much stronger when paired together.

Comparing Mystics to other classes like Clerics is not proper since they are from another class and need to be different and more powerful in some ways. Shamans are obviously more effecient healers and better at preventing damage than Clerics, Clerics are better at curing control effects and balancing group health generally, Sub-Class differences are more important to focus on for Mystics since we at least have a frame of reference with Defilers to begin with such as wards, similiar AA trees, similiar chain gear, etc..

I don't think the OP is a forum troll since it seems they know what they are talking about, and have legitimate gripes. I'm starting to think the Troll Police need to be reigned in a bit also. At any rate, I don't agree that there is a huge gap in healing ability between a Mystic and any other healing class. There is also a problem in perception that occurs frequently when a great player heals in the same raid as a godly healer, and thinks it's their class that is the problem instead of the difference in play ability. How do you calculate or rate play ability? I'm not saying that the OP is having this problem in perception, just saying it might be possible since I have noticed it occurs frequently with players I have spoken to about this topic, and needs to be considered when evaluating healer classes in broad strokes.

Farsong · 04-15-2010, 12:59 PM

You are right, but topic wasnt actually about how strong are clerics and how weak are mystics, well, not only about it. SMILEY The point is simple - shamans go last. In last fix SOE changed Theer chest to 20 crit miti and called it fixing. Pathetic, its capped long ago. T1 chest has group heal+regen proc, this one doesnt, but has 9% spellhaste, which is capped in raid even without healing stance. It has alot of crit bonus, which is half as usefull for shamans. Conclusion - you guys have TSO chest? Use it and leave us be. And same idea i see for a long time for AAs, spells and class specific adorns. Shrugs, all we can do is think we are so buff that we dont need all those usefull things.

Gahnand · 04-16-2010, 04:54 PM

Farsong wrote:

Sorry, but its not like im trolling or seek flame. Im stuck on mystic because of my RL but still i like mystic more then cleric (i have one). Im just finally [Removed for Content] of nerfing my class while busting similar ones. Im buff, topgeared, can heal everything, but still [Removed for Content] of such situation.

If you can heal everything, then basically you are just saying you want to be OP. The very implication of OP is that you have more power than necessary, so if you have enough power to do everything you need to do... less QQ maybe?

Also lol at being mad about our debuffs. I think you need to do some more research here. Two DPS mod, 2 STA debuffs (one that lasts a long time on a target encounter), and 2 attack speed debuffs... Love'em.

If there is one thing I'm a little butt hurt about, it's that I don't feel like I have the same DPS advantage over defilers or lol even templars that I used to. But, then again, I'm still moving up in gear. Only T1 and T2 gear at this point...

Balmung of the Azure Sky · 05-03-2010, 10:48 AM

Farsong wrote:

Sorry, but its not like im trolling or seek flame. Im stuck on mystic because of my RL but still i like mystic more then cleric (i have one). Im just finally [Removed for Content] of nerfing my class while busting similar ones. Im buff, topgeared, can heal everything, but still [Removed for Content] of such situation.

I can solo heal all the raid encounter minus 4 rune theer (never tried the encounter yet), waansu (which we've only tried once), and Arkatanthis (never tried), plus pump out a whopping 10k dps on average. We've basically been given the duality of a fury with dps and healing capability but you will still see us right under defilers and above everyone else as always.

04-12-2010, 01:31 PM	#5
Banditman Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,459	Don't feed the trolls. I'm just sayin . . . __________________

04-12-2010, 08:44 PM	#7
Banadux Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: North Carolina Posts: 165	I think there is a valid point on the debuffs. I know at least once I saw a thread about dispatch and related caps to what you can debuff. I'm sure the caps exist for every possible debuff (not sure what they all are). If it turns out that the combination of other classes that do attack + debuff in one hit already has the mob debuffed to max then it makes our debuff only spells seem a waste. IF that is the case, and I'm speculating, then a simple solution would be to add damage to our debuffs. I'm sure some people are hardcore enough with stats to know all the debuff caps and what all the classes debuff. It may or may not be an issue, but like I said if we're not effectively doing anything with our debuffs a change of some sort would be appropriate. __________________ Gochum [The Bazaar] - Necromancer http://www.gamespanker.com/everquest2 Support site (listings, forum, statistics) for Live Exchange on The Bazaar and Vox

04-15-2010, 12:59 PM	#9
Farsong Newbie Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 4	You are right, but topic wasnt actually about how strong are clerics and how weak are mystics, well, not only about it. The point is simple - shamans go last. In last fix SOE changed Theer chest to 20 crit miti and called it fixing. Pathetic, its capped long ago. T1 chest has group heal+regen proc, this one doesnt, but has 9% spellhaste, which is capped in raid even without healing stance. It has alot of crit bonus, which is half as usefull for shamans. Conclusion - you guys have TSO chest? Use it and leave us be. And same idea i see for a long time for AAs, spells and class specific adorns. Shrugs, all we can do is think we are so buff that we dont need all those usefull things.

04-16-2010, 04:54 PM	#10
Gahnand Server: Unrest Guild: Equilibrium Rank: Member Loremaster Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 350	Farsong wrote: Sorry, but its not like im trolling or seek flame. Im stuck on mystic because of my RL but still i like mystic more then cleric (i have one). Im just finally [Removed for Content] of nerfing my class while busting similar ones. Im buff, topgeared, can heal everything, but still [Removed for Content] of such situation. If you can heal everything, then basically you are just saying you want to be OP. The very implication of OP is that you have more power than necessary, so if you have enough power to do everything you need to do... less QQ maybe? Also lol at being mad about our debuffs. I think you need to do some more research here. Two DPS mod, 2 STA debuffs (one that lasts a long time on a target encounter), and 2 attack speed debuffs... Love'em. If there is one thing I'm a little butt hurt about, it's that I don't feel like I have the same DPS advantage over defilers or lol even templars that I used to. But, then again, I'm still moving up in gear. Only T1 and T2 gear at this point... __________________

05-03-2010, 10:48 AM	#11
Balmung of the Azure Sky Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 93	Farsong wrote: Sorry, but its not like im trolling or seek flame. Im stuck on mystic because of my RL but still i like mystic more then cleric (i have one). Im just finally [Removed for Content] of nerfing my class while busting similar ones. Im buff, topgeared, can heal everything, but still [Removed for Content] of such situation. I can solo heal all the raid encounter minus 4 rune theer (never tried the encounter yet), waansu (which we've only tried once), and Arkatanthis (never tried), plus pump out a whopping 10k dps on average. We've basically been given the duality of a fury with dps and healing capability but you will still see us right under defilers and above everyone else as always.

04-12-2010, 09:04 AM	#1
Farsong Newbie Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 4	Hello. Im new to this forum as a poster but i played tons as a raid mystic in one of hardcore raid guilds. And the reason i decided to make this topic is simple - i run out of patience. Does SOE want us to switch to another classes? I understand that warding is a strong mechanic, but is it a reason to make mystic trashclass? We heal worse, cure worse, buff worse then most of raid healers, and debuffs are nearly useless. We get interrupted and stifled where clerics keep casting all they want, we have to cure dots click by click where other healers just use their second groupcure ability, we try to comfort ourselves that bolster is still worth something because it buffs stats, but its clear it is a drop of say incquisitors buffs. The only good stuff is stompede which makes us utility class in offtank group to buff bards. Thats not enough! More then that, even wards dont work now on couple encounters, i.e. Theer (and there our last hope, AE rez doesnt work properly as well). Most of AAs and red adorns are pathertic. They either buff useless spells (most of mystic spells) or buff usefull ones in a useless way, like casting speed, which is maxed anyway. The only nice red adorn is 10%crit bonus to stances but for wards its just 1/2 that good. And you can just throw away all other class specific red adorns - wont really affect your heal abilities. Even red adorn sets are revamped last for shamans (and set chest from easy Theer isnt revamped yet). Yes, mystic still can heal his group, but where inquisitor makes 15k dps and keeps everyone alive with groupcure+groupheal+mythic groupcure chain, mystic can barely find a window to throw 1-2 debuffs. Thats just not fair. Support warder with 2 buffs and million trash spells - is not a class someone would want to play! I dont know if devs read this forum but maybe there is a small chance they do.

04-12-2010, 11:47 AM	#2
KatrinaDeath Loremaster Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota Posts: 690	Press "K" to see the rest of your abilities. Bolster, Sentry, 6 Debuffs that reduce STA, resists, DPS and Haste, Oberon(sp). Pretty sure I was using those the other day in Palace. Mystics are far from "trash" or "pathetic," maybe you are playing the wrong class.

04-12-2010, 12:21 PM	#3
Farsong Newbie Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 4	Sentry completely useless, stats debuffs nearly useless, dps, haste and resist debuffs can be applied, but maxxed in raid without mystic easy. Bolster is OK buff, but nothing great (and SF AA into it in eof tree doesnt really make it stronger since its all capped without it). Oberon? Its a very strong ward, but only for 16 seconds with big reuse, does it really makes class? also you nearly never use it while solo healing group. I dont say you cant use abilities you stated. I just say they dont matter most of time. Compare mystic and any cleric! We are becoming trash and pathetic. And no, i play mystic for a long long time and know class well enough to judge. But thats all old news. 3 things made me run out of paitence: 1) hard mobs are all interrupting and stifling, and shamans suffer of it alot while clerics dont care 2) shamans red slot stuff fixed latest, and not always and atop of all prevous 3) they started to make mob spells that ignore wards.

04-12-2010, 01:09 PM	#4
AziBam Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 682	You realize there are those who feel we are flat out OP and at the top of the healing chain right now? I don't agree with that statement but I do feel we are in a pretty good position. I'm not sure why you dismiss all of those spells/abilities. If you aren't using them I guess I can see why you feel [Removed for Content]. I actually brought this toon out of a semi-retirement just because I liked the changes. /shrug Would I love steadfast? Sure. Although, in truth if I could have any one cleric ability it would probably be shield ally instead. I know I go through phases where I just get bored with a class or toon. Maybe your issue is less with mystics in general and more with wanting something different? Roll a cleric. Have fun with it. They are awesome too!

04-12-2010, 03:43 PM	#6
Farsong Newbie Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 4	Sorry, but its not like im trolling or seek flame. Im stuck on mystic because of my RL but still i like mystic more then cleric (i have one). Im just finally [Removed for Content] of nerfing my class while busting similar ones. Im buff, topgeared, can heal everything, but still [Removed for Content] of such situation.

04-13-2010, 08:04 PM	#8
Arcanemundi Server: Antonia Bayle Guild: Electus Vir Rank: Order of Electus Vir ~ Senior Raider Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 92	You can find threads like this one in every class forum, posted over time by various players upset with their class, or sub-class. The grass is always greener on the other side, and it takes all character classes working together to pull off an encounter with tough mobs. Even if our debuffs are occasionally redundant, or our wards get occasionally ignored by strikethroughs, we still need to cast them. Clerics could make the argument that they don't need to cast all their reactives since Shaman wards absorb so much damage, but ofcourse they would be wrong. Proactive healing is a must if you want to perform well as a healer. I believe that Mystics are one of the strongest and most versatile healers in the game. Clerics are very powerful also, maybe more powerful than Shamans in some ways, but Clerics are even more useful when paired with a Mystic or Defiler. It isn't right to say one is better than the other, both have their strengths and are much stronger when paired together. Comparing Mystics to other classes like Clerics is not proper since they are from another class and need to be different and more powerful in some ways. Shamans are obviously more effecient healers and better at preventing damage than Clerics, Clerics are better at curing control effects and balancing group health generally, Sub-Class differences are more important to focus on for Mystics since we at least have a frame of reference with Defilers to begin with such as wards, similiar AA trees, similiar chain gear, etc.. I don't think the OP is a forum troll since it seems they know what they are talking about, and have legitimate gripes. I'm starting to think the Troll Police need to be reigned in a bit also. At any rate, I don't agree that there is a huge gap in healing ability between a Mystic and any other healing class. There is also a problem in perception that occurs frequently when a great player heals in the same raid as a godly healer, and thinks it's their class that is the problem instead of the difference in play ability. How do you calculate or rate play ability? I'm not saying that the OP is having this problem in perception, just saying it might be possible since I have noticed it occurs frequently with players I have spoken to about this topic, and needs to be considered when evaluating healer classes in broad strokes.