Is it accepted to be a Fighter class and not tank?

[NrthnStar5]

Curious, some fighter classes intrigue me (Beserker, Shadowknight, & Paladin to be exact) however I do NOT like to tank. Is it feasible to spec a fighter class as DPS for primary function? Would grouping be feasible?

[Brook]

A lot of people do, intentionally or not.

[Rast]

Is it possible?  Sure, but it wouldn't be a good way to do it.  You will always be a second fiddle to the real DPS classes, because that is not what the classes are geared to do.

Seriously, if you want a fighter style toon but don't want to be a tank, take a brigand or swashy, you'll be able to do your stated goal much more effectively.

[NrthnStar5]

Can any of the scout classes wield two handed swords? I wish the fighter classes had the flexibility of being excellent tanks, or excellent DPS, or somewhere in the middle. Some of the Fighter classes I like for RP reasons, as well as Armor and Weapons they can use.

[Skywarrior]

I would say it depends greatly on what you mean by "feasible".  Following remarks are from a PvE only perspective.

If you mean will you be viable as a character, then the answer is "yes".  Many players can put out very respectable dps numbers for casual groups and raids with a fighter class.  You can easily get any fighter class to max level and be productive in a friends and family atmosphere.

If you mean will you be able to easily find PUGs and/or less casual groups and raid forces who will accept you as a non-tanking dps fighter then the most likely scenario is "no".  Fighters who do not tank are usually at a fairly significant disadvantage in competing for any dps slot unless you are also there as a backup tank.

If you are grouping with friends, play what and how you want to play.  If you are grouping with strangers most often or are competing for limited spots on a raid you will be at a disadvantage as a dps fighter.  Not saying you can't make a niche for yourself, it will just be more difficult to find.  Even more casual raid forces are generally reluctant to voluntarily take on extra fighters whose only desire is to "dps".  Much better to find a real dps class for the spot.

If you really do not want to tank but like melee combat, why not go with one of the scout classes?  A brigand or swashbuckler might fit your playstyle and preferences more closely than a berserker, for instance.  Additionally, scouts have deaggro abilities in case they do end up tanking briefly that fighters do not get.  As a high dps fighter you may end up tanking whether you want to or not since you really have few ways of shedding aggro short of lowering your dps and not using abilities.

[NrthnStar5]

Thanks for the feedback, I do appreciate the thoughtful responses. I don't mind being the tank as in, taking all the hits. What I don't like, is the leadership role that is expected. 

[Rahatmattata]

I have a feeling at end game you will get turned down from a ton of groups if you refuse to tank, and eventually build a bad reputation for yourself. Either play a dps class, learn to tank, group only with guildies that understand your plight, or suck it up and prepare to not get group invites.

The game needs good tanks, and if you can play a tank really well, you are almost doing your server a dis-service by not playing one. You will have to lead groups through dungeons you've never been to before. You will sometimes do something really dumb and wipe your group... twice in a row even. But unless you find a good guild or have little desire to group, I don't think you'll enjoy playing a "dps tank." The general pug community will frown.

[RafaelSmith]

Gonna be blunt...cause I really hate for people to make totally wrong class choices......Haivng played both a Guardian and now an Assassin ............there is probably nothing more annoying and more useless than a tank class that doesnt like to tank.   As the person above me said...you will end up with a bad rep which is not something you want.

I suppose people tend to sorta accept well played non-tanking  brawlers but a plate tank that doesnt want or like to tank is a waste if you ask me.

[Ocello]

As a Berserker, I will almost NEVER accept another fighter in a pickup group for one reason:  they are competition for loot.  Plus, I would definitely look down on a fighter who won't tank--it is a pride thing.  Tanking is not for the weak, and if you are weak, I don't want you in my group.

[Costa]

As the last person stated personally i hate taking other plate fighters along in groups due to the competition on gear and the frustrations you get when they decide to use an aoe taunt/attack ability and have the healers focus heals off the tank to keep them alive for a short duration. My feelings are if your there to dps you roll on dps loot, if your there to tank you roll on tank loot. When you have someone rolling on both because they are looking to use the group to gear up people get angry at them. The recent stat changes has made it so fighter items are fighter items with not much of an argument to roll on something that dosn't carry lots of STR.

If you want to roll a fighter to play dps then maybe a brawler rather than a plate tank. You'll find less resistance from the plate fighters who are probably tanking to have you along. Either that or like other people have said just roll a dps class and play it as it is meant to be played. If you want to dps then the person tanking can dps high but you'll find that is due to group buffs being focused on the tank as well as the damage procs adding additional dps.

The question the OP asked about 2 handers, you will find that if your playing a zerk you'll get more dps out of dual wielding over 2 handers. With Crusaders using a 2 hander you'll be looking to pump up your haste to have it hit a lot more often and get more dps out of it, although in the tso aa tree crusaders can enhance a 1 handed weapons damage whislt using a shield or as i seen some where else monks with haste buff may be an option for a 2 handed staff.

[circusgirl]

As a brawler, I really wouldn't suggest trying to play one as a dps class.  You'll get less flack for it then you would as a plate tank, but its really not what the class is made for at all, and you'll find this out very quickly when you realize that all your AA options are tank and aggro oriented.  A brigand or swashbuckler might be more what you're looking for--both can put out really great dps numbers, especially swashbucklers, and both have so much utility that you'll find they're always welcome in groups.  Tanks love swashies because of their hate transfers and offensive debuffs, and dps love brigands because of their defensive debuffs.  On top of all that, rogues have by far the most survivability of the scout classes, and while you would never take an appropriately geared rogue as a tank for a heroic instance, they're more than capable for solo, small group, and overland content in that role.

[Hilt]

NrthnStar5 wrote:

Curious, some fighter classes intrigue me (Beserker, Shadowknight, & Paladin to be exact) however I do NOT like to tank. Is it feasible to spec a fighter class as DPS for primary function? Would grouping be feasible?

Play the game to ENJOY the game. Otherwise, I will have to throw beers at you...

[NrthnStar5]

Thanks, I kind of expected most responses, but just wanted to inquire to be sure. I think i'll stay away from the fighter classes at this point. I know in WoW, warriors can be specced for tanking or DPS, so I wasn't sure if this could be done with Fighters in EQ2 as well. 

Thanks everyone for the thoughtful feedback.

[Rahatmattata]

Ocello wrote:

As a Berserker, I will almost NEVER accept another fighter in a pickup group for one reason:  they are competition for loot.

That's pretty selfish. You probably have no problem having 2 or 3 scouts and mages... 2 healers in your group competing for loot. It's all good to have a dirge, brigand, and assassin in your group scrapping over loot, but god forbid if you should have to roll against someone. If that's how you roll though, that's your thing.

I usually don't want another fighter in my group either, but not because of loot. It's because I'd rather have a useful class. But if I have a dirge and enchanter, I really have no problem bringing another decent fighter for dps. I had a monk friend I used to group with quite a bit, and sometimes I'd ask him tank and I would play loldps with my guard.

[Aull]

Most players will not accept this. Others will. Its like rolling a healer and not healing.

Each arch-type is or should be designed for a particular roll. Fighters are meant to tank/off tank plain and simple. Trying to go outside of this roll will be hard to accomplish. Like someone said you can do it but get ready for a bad name and less and less group invites.

[Pyra Shineflame]

I wonder why no one mentioned the obvious? Play a tank class, tank for a group. And make it clear that you haven't been in a zone before, or would rather have someone more experienced take the responsibility as group leader. Voila. Happens all the time, especially since a lot of people are going to just be happy that they got a tank, they aren't going to dump you for not knowing a zone. Happens in raids as well. MT asks the wizard, dirge, templar, who ever that had been there before to tell him what to do and where to go. I would do it all the time on my zerker. "Don't know this place, anyone been here before?"

No reason to feel pressured unless you are grouping with jerks.

[Writer Cal]

What Zulaika said.  If you don't feel confident in leading (you're a new tank, the zone is new to you, you're just having an off day, etc..) speak up.  If it's a new zone to me, or a zone I've done on my Troub but don't know from a tanking perspective, I usually just tell my group, "Point me in the right direction and I'll pull it and hold it for you."  In new zones, for named encounters, I just ask what the deal is with this guy and what to expect.

The majority of the people I've grouped with on my new-ish tank (hit 80 right before the new expansion) have been entirely supportive of this.  Most folks don't seem to mind a new tank if the tank communicates what they don't know, follows needed instructions when they're given, and generally works WITH the group.

[standupwookie]

Being a tank is great.  It's instant groups, all the time.  All you have to do is start the group yourself.  You already are 1/2 of the main part of a group, all you need is a healer....and healers usually dont start or lead groups.

I find it's not tanking that most tanks have a problem with, it's the "leading a group through a dungeon" thing.  If you are timid, dont play a tank.  People expect you to lead or at the very least keep the pace up.

There is nothing worse that slogging your way through a instance in a couple of hours when you could easily get it done in 30 minutes.  People hate that, and you can tell within 5 minutes whether or not a tank is any good.  The bad ones will edge their way to the front of the group, maybe turn around a few times, inch back...then finally pull.

Just get in there, tell your group what you are going to do and do it.  If you dont know the dungeon, say so, more that likely someone knows the place and will tell you exactly what mobs do what...just remember it for the next time.

There is stress to playing a tank, but not as much stress as being the healer.  If you want a class with zero stress, be a wizard.  Cant take, no utility, no heals, mostly single target damage and if you die it's not a big deal because you are a wizzie and have been used to dieing for 90 levels.

[Blu]

General answer: no it's not accepted. I'd say your best options are in order:

1. Don't play a tank. (Save yourself the frustration.)
2. Find people (e.g. a guild) that you can group with regularly that will accept your choices.
   1. If you really like the class you are playing, then this will probably be your most rewarding option. But these people can be tough to find.
   2. You'll have to avoid PUGs, or at least patiently wait until you hear the magic words ("LF1M of anything")
3. Accept that fact that you will have a hard time getting into groups
   1. Take up questing, tradeskilling, and achievements to fill in time between PUGs.
   2. Train up alts on particularly dry days.

I understand not wanting to lead the group. If you don't have a leader-dominant personality, it can be quite stressful to project that for groups of people you don't know. I don't know a lot of people that play games to be stressed. Yet some tank classes can otherwise be very fun to play and experience all the solo(able) content with.

[Aule]

Bazill@Nagafen wrote:

The question the OP asked about 2 handers, you will find that if your playing a zerk you'll get more dps out of dual wielding over 2 handers. With Crusaders using a 2 hander you'll be looking to pump up your haste to have it hit a lot more often and get more dps out of it, although in the tso aa tree crusaders can enhance a 1 handed weapons damage whilst using a shield or as i seen some where else monks with haste buff may be an option for a 2 handed staff.

Crusaders won't wield a two hander as long as they have a damage bonus to their primary weapon as long as a shield is equipped in secondary.

Warriors will get more dps dual wielding 6.0s delay weapons than any two hander you can find.  As berserkers have 100% aoe autoattack, you might situationally find use in a big two hander for pulling clouds of mobs.  Odds are though that you're still better off with the two 6.0s weapons.

Brawlers can't wield the 6.0s weapons, they're all swords, you've got 2.5s and 4.0s one handers, and 6.0s and 8.0s two handers.  The 6.0s is really the only option, there's maybe 4 that I've seen so far.  That, combined with 6% flurry aa, plus 1-2% flurry shoulder adorn, plus crane flock (100% aoe for 16-24s) can put out some pretty darn good dps.  People still report doing more extended dps dual wielding though.