Ideal group for an SK

[Nole]

So I've come to realize how little I know about what most other classes can do; Specifically, what buffs they give and whatnot.

So let me ask you this:

In an ideal world where an entire group is built solely to maximize your DPS, what would the other 5 people be? (Assume you can get debuffs on target and raidwide buffs from outside your group.)

[Margen]

Me, Troub, Dirge, Brigand, Swashbuckler or assasian (with either classes hate transfer would never lose hate), and a good healer (furys are the best at increasing our dps, but they aren't great at solo healing, a good one can, but seen SO may bad ones lol).

The bard buffs are insane for our dps, plus between them you would never have issues of agro.  Brigand is the best debuff class in the game.  The choice between swashys and assiasians is a bit tougher, they both give you hate which is always nice.  Swashys have nice offensive debuffs for the mob and do very nice dps, but the assasian is the king of dps and can give you a poison proc.

As for the healer, any one that keeps my troll butt standing

[Hugsnkissums]

Troubs are nice, but I doubt you'll find them mashed with Dirges much. I've even had some bards leave groups because another was already there. If I had to choose bewteen the two, I would probably say troub hands down. An Illy would rock...I leveled with one as my SK and LOVED it Time compression, haste, and illusionary arm FTW. I absolutely love grouping with Defilers as healers, and they debuff to disease damage and ward. I've heard good things about grouping with Inquisitors, but I'd probably want a druid of some sort instead. I leveled with HoT heals as my only healer and did quite nicely. Some form of aggro transfer would be great so to go with that group too, perhaps swashy/brigand or even onother scout would be good. That last spot is is sort of open to whatever.

 So my group would be : SK, Troub, Illy, Defiler, Druid, scout/DPS 

[Colcos]

Illy Dirge Inquis Fury Berserker (so I get IA) and myself. Zerker has nice group STR buff...  Illy for Repidity/IA dirge for obvious hate xfer DPS mod and bard crit/da songs inquis for more DPS mod and fury for feral/lucidity. Its not a smart raid group... but could DPS or Tank easily in that setup.

[Moonbaby]

Without a doubt, you want a Dirge and Defiler. A warlock wouldn't be bad either. SK, Dirge, Defiler, and Warlock all have poisin-based attacks, so with all their debuffs working together, you'll be golden.

[Norrsken]

Moonbaby@Antonia Bayle wrote:

Without a doubt, you want a Dirge and Defiler. A warlock wouldn't be bad either. SK, Dirge, Defiler, and Warlock all have poisin-based attacks, so with all their debuffs working together, you'll be golden.

Im pretty sure the sk is disease.Toss on a necro on that bunch too. And a brigand for uber awesome debuffs.

[Nole]

Moonbaby@Antonia Bayle wrote:

Without a doubt, you want a Dirge and Defiler. A warlock wouldn't be bad either. SK, Dirge, Defiler, and Warlock all have poisin-based attacks, so with all their debuffs working together, you'll be golden.

Ours are disease though.

One thing I've noticed is that Wizards give the group a STR/INT buff (I think it's like 96 or something at top tier), seems like a great buff for us, but I didn't know what else other people give.

Inquisitors seem to have a DPS mod, +health buff that's a concentration buff that seemed pretty nice.

[Pins]

SK, Troub, Dirge, Illusionist, Inq, AssassinUltimate DPS for SK, if given all the single-target buffs in that group.

[threat111]

skip the assassin give me a coercer

[Moonbaby]

Aiya@Lucan DLere wrote:

Moonbaby@Antonia Bayle wrote:

Without a doubt, you want a Dirge and Defiler. A warlock wouldn't be bad either. SK, Dirge, Defiler, and Warlock all have poisin-based attacks, so with all their debuffs working together, you'll be golden.

Ours are disease though.

One thing I've noticed is that Wizards give the group a STR/INT buff (I think it's like 96 or something at top tier), seems like a great buff for us, but I didn't know what else other people give.

Inquisitors seem to have a DPS mod, +health buff that's a concentration buff that seemed pretty nice.

Sorry, disease. Dirge debuffs disease anyway, never played Warlock.But yes, you want a Dirge.

[therodge]

now if your talking a group that will make you look good

dirge/illy/coericer/sk/troub and if you want a group capable of acually swipeing through zones defilier or if looking just to see the maximum parse you can get brig, of course neither of these are very balanced groups and very will lack in dps, but if the dirge illy coericer and troub are all decent players  youll probobly end up with a 9-10k group parse as youll probobly be doing 3-4k yourself rofl.

[DwarvesR]

I'd go with this:

• SK tank (obviously)
• Mystic --  disease debuffs, bolster, plus ye olde excellent healing
• Dirge -- more disease debuffs, hate buff, CoB --  all the rest of the dirge-y goodness.  Maybe luck of the dirge to increase proc chances, if they spec'd for it.
• Warlock -- more disease debuffs, propagations adds flat 4% to all my proc chances (nearly doubling many of them)
• Coercer -- massive always-on debuff to all magic types of damage, dps buff, hate buff, INT/AGI buff and then ye olde stunlock ability making it so the healer can actually cast their debuffs.  And the dps they can now do while stunlocking
• And the last spot...... could go either way with either an inquis (all damage type always-on debuff, haste buff, possible extra heals if needed) or a brigand (dispatch, as well as the other debuffs)

*Every* class in here debuffs at least disease and most also do disease type damage too, so they all support each other.  This isn't just a "my dps is best" group, this is a pretty high dps group overall.  I've been bolstered by a mystic and hit the hard cap for INT so even though it doesn't really mean that much due to diminishing returns, it's still a completely maxed dps capability for ~45-50% of my dps.

I was in a PUG with almost this setup (we had a necromancer instead of a coercer), but I was the warlock.  The brigand and I bandied the top dps slot back and forth between us, generally doing 4K-5K dps on most fights, and the SK was generally 3rd on the parses with about 3K-3500 dps.  The necro's disease debuffs helped too, I'm sure, but I believe that the coercer's "all magic types" debuff is actually bigger than the necro's disease one (and procs from the pet that debuff) and the coercer would have more buffs for the SK anyway to increase his personal dps, so that's why my "ideal" would have the coercer over yet another "disease type" damage dealer.  Still, even with the necro rather than the coercer it was an awesome group.

[Porphyry]

Illusionist w/ MythicalCoercer w/ full VP set (6 piece bonus is just crazy)Templar w/ MythicalTroubDirge

[Kaarim]

Aiya@Lucan DLere wrote:

So let me ask you this:

In an ideal world where an entire group is built solely to maximize your DPS, what would the other 5 people be? (Assume you can get debuffs on target and raidwide buffs from outside your group.)

Maximize DPS solely for the SK:ShadowknightIllusionist ( 25%Double attack, Haste, Tandem, flash of brilliance)Warlock (Increase proc %, w/e proc buffs they got)Coercer ( DPS buffs, Hate decreaser *since this is just pure DPS*)Dirge ( +Skills, CoB, Luck of the Dirge, 10% Double attack, 7.5% extra spell and melee crit)Fury ( Increase intel, feral)Reasoning for setup:More double attack kicking me over 50%Haste crank out more auto attacksDPS do heavier melee damage fury spell support booster to spell and meleeDirge(pretty obvious) I didn't combo a dirge + troub, figured the troub will have raid wide PoTM. Luck of the dirge and their disease proc buffs are better for us IMO than the troub in group. Luckily PoTM and CoB are both Raid wide.**Usual OT setup is:ShadowknightMysticTemplarDirgeSwashIllusionistC an still tank and do some serious dps with this formation as well. This setup is more realistic though(if you are OT in a raiding guild) then the one listed above lol

[Porphyry]

Aiya@Lucan DLere wrote:

In an ideal world where an entire group is built solely to maximize your DPS, what would the other 5 people be? (Assume you can get debuffs on target and raidwide buffs from outside your group.)

Guess I should read the whole message.  My setup was for a single group, not a raid group. For raid group I would go:Illusionist /w mythicalFuryTroubWarlockWizard

[Nole]

Yeah, I guess that's a better answer. I've gone on some pug raids on T7 stuff, where we took a bunch people just to fill spots (listening to instructions more important than make-up vs. old content imo), so I kind of trying to figure out what sort of group I should ask to be stuck in. I actually, from several experiences seemed to do better in a caster group than in a melee-heavy group. Was trying to figure out if that was random or just buffs people had.

Since I'm not 80, I generally don't tank things and threat isn't really an issue yet unless I AoE adds early. (Interestingly enough most of the healers I've been given don't like to actually heal me if I get aggro from things, so I try not to end up off-tanking anything unless specifically asked. I suspect healers in a pug can suck a lot.) I have found though that Death March + Divine Aura + FD for awhile is pretty good if the MT is taking too much damage or lots of things are running loose. Also the dark elf racial detaunt has saved me quite a number of times.

Also what's the hard cap on stats? I know the mitigation cap is whatever makes you hit 75%.

[Hamervelder]

No SK should be without a defiler.  They use disease damage and debuffs, which will obviously attribute more to you than any heals/buffs that inquisitors or other healers bring along.  Dirge or troubadour both work well for us, I prefer dirges.  Beyond that, there are a lot of variables.  Having a defiler though, is key.

[Porphyry]

Uros@Antonia Bayle wrote:

No SK should be without a defiler.  They use disease damage and debuffs, which will obviously attribute more to you than any heals/buffs that inquisitors or other healers bring along.  Dirge or troubadour both work well for us, I prefer dirges.  Beyond that, there are a lot of variables.  Having a defiler though, is key.

I agree that a defiler adds nice disease debuffs, but I'll disagree the fact that you need one to get max dps.  Granted, gear is going to be a huge factor.  But at some point, you and your group will just do so much dps, the debuffs don't matter.  Instance groups only of course, not talking about raid situations.

Here's an example of a zonewide parse in CoA.

SK, Conjy, Mystic, Troub, Dirge and Illy.

Here's a breakdown of the damage output from that instance:

These might differ from most, but we were mass pulling tons of mobs.

[Hamervelder]

That's probably at least partially true for T8.  Admittedly, I tend to think alot in terms of T7, given the fact that I abhor RoK.  In T7, a defiler was absolutely essential.  Maybe not so much in T8, but my partner was always a defiler until she left the game, and no one else that I grouped with really cut it.  Maybe it wasn't just the class, but the fact that she actually sits right beside me here in the room, and we just play so well together.

[slippery]

Assuming all mythicals, illusionist, dirge, troub are hands down the first 3 choices. The other 2 slots are dependent on gear, if after all that you still need double attack a mystic, if not then probably coercer and inquisitor.

[Porphyry]

Uros@Antonia Bayle wrote:

That's probably at least partially true for T8. Admittedly, I tend to think alot in terms of T7, given the fact that I abhor RoK. In T7, a defiler was absolutely essential. Maybe not so much in T8, but my partner was always a defiler until she left the game, and no one else that I grouped with really cut it. Maybe it wasn't just the class, but the fact that she actually sits right beside me here in the room, and we just play so well together.

Again, gear being a huge factor, at level 80 any T7 instance should be just utterly destroyed.  I duo a lot of T7 instances with my SK and Illy and both average 2k.

[Porphyry]

SK's just suck.

SK, Warlock, Wizard, Illy, Fury, Troub.

[sylusmoonsnake]

With out a doubt, up to T8 you want a defiler!  Defilers are built for Sk's, every debuff they have is either disease or poision, and that falls right in line with your other classes to make the group. 

SK, Defiler, Dirge or Troub, Warlock, Brigand, Coe or Ill.  You will have no issue with this group, for dungeons and your higher t8 zones you will need to modify based on zone, replacing warlock with assassin, or which you pick for bard.  It is basic class build mechanics, the evil classes are designed to work better with other of same alignment, if you build your group with other classes that enhance your own abilities you can overcome some of the uber spells or effects that are so often over indulged.

[flowercivicsi]

Jonna@Befallen wrote:

I'd go with this:

• SK tank (obviously)
• Mystic --  disease debuffs, bolster, plus ye olde excellent healing (I think you are umm wrong about the poision/disease debuffs being mystic... Defiler's have a ton of mitigation reduction tailored for necros, SK's, and warlocks... nice try though) 
• Dirge -- more disease debuffs, hate buff, CoB --  all the rest of the dirge-y goodness.  Maybe luck of the dirge to increase proc chances, if they spec'd for it.
• Warlock -- more disease debuffs, propagations adds flat 4% to all my proc chances (nearly doubling many of them)
• Coercer -- massive always-on debuff to all magic types of damage, dps buff, hate buff, INT/AGI buff and then ye olde stunlock ability making it so the healer can actually cast their debuffs.  And the dps they can now do while stunlocking
• And the last spot...... could go either way with either an inquis (all damage type always-on debuff, haste buff, possible extra heals if needed) or a brigand (dispatch, as well as the other debuffs)

*Every* class in here debuffs at least disease and most also do disease type damage too, so they all support each other.  This isn't just a "my dps is best" group, this is a pretty high dps group overall.  I've been bolstered by a mystic and hit the hard cap for INT so even though it doesn't really mean that much due to diminishing returns, it's still a completely maxed dps capability for ~45-50% of my dps.

I was in a PUG with almost this setup (we had a necromancer instead of a coercer), but I was the warlock.  The brigand and I bandied the top dps slot back and forth between us, generally doing 4K-5K dps on most fights, and the SK was generally 3rd on the parses with about 3K-3500 dps.  The necro's disease debuffs helped too, I'm sure, but I believe that the coercer's "all magic types" debuff is actually bigger than the necro's disease one (and procs from the pet that debuff) and the coercer would have more buffs for the SK anyway to increase his personal dps, so that's why my "ideal" would have the coercer over yet another "disease type" damage dealer.  Still, even with the necro rather than the coercer it was an awesome group.

[Mathafern]

All due respect to the OP, but the question being asked is not a good one. Don't ask to maximize YOUR DPS.  Ask to maximize group effectiveness.   If DPS is all you have in mind, reroll a scout. Personally, I really like a group like this: Me.  I focus on aggro and being able to take a hit. Inquisitor for heals Ranger for DPS Illy for mezzes and DPS Mystic (Dr00d style) for DPS and backup heals.  Swashy or Warlock for more DPS. For Maidens, I like to have two tanks for the sisters. Guardian.  Annoying but useful. Me.  Just annoying.  For fun I pull aggro off the guardian. Swashy or Ranger for DPS. Illy for Mez. Inquistor. Dr00d. For Chardok palace or deep seb I like to have a Monk along. Same as above but swap monk and guard.  Group FD FTW.

[Hugsnkissums]

Pinski wrote:

SK, Troub, Dirge, Illusionist, Inq, AssassinUltimate DPS for SK, if given all the single-target buffs in that group.

Ooo yeah, I bet this is a really good set up as well. Troubs and dirges might get a little disgruntled because they're in the same group, but this isn't about them *wink*

[Hugsnkissums]

Porphyry@Antonia Bayle wrote:

SK's just suck.

SK, Warlock, Wizard, Illy, Fury, Troub.

Meh, I hate it when people post parses without the time stamp. Anything under a minute shouldn't even be anywhere close to accurate. Any monkey can save up their biggest, nastiest damage dealers for a 15 sec fight.

[Porphyry]

Yes, because Death Touch was a HUGE factor in that parse!