I don't Get it anymore....

DMIstar · 04-09-2008, 05:33 PM

So We Take a nerf on Avoidence .... Our Mitigation, and Our Lifetaps are supposed to be the buffer for our Avoidence being nerfed... I went down that route number wise and it just does not add up. We are given a DoT taunt System.. Which some how our taunts Add up to lesser then the Other tanks.. And So I turn to our DPS to see if that Buffers the Loss in taunts... We are Split in DPS and Decided to see what gains we get from 1400 Dps in stats STR/INT vs Guards 700STR... and I come up with this:

The First Column is our Spells/CAs Name.. Followed by Second Column Being The Cast time + Recast time.. To Show the Entire time the spell is in down stat, from initial cast to, it being ready for next ...The Third is our MAX Dmg on the spell Divided into the seconds the spell is completely Down.. Hence Damage per Second... This is because all the spells have different cast/recast timers individually.. As well as Guards.. So I cant assume to compare unless breaking it down like this... Fourth Column Is the mana Used per shot.. and Last Column is the Max Damage From each Spell... All These where Taken Down with NO CA, Spelldamage and 700str/700int ... The Guards have 12 Damage spells to the class that i've found... This does not include AA's of any sort.. The pure Basics. Even if I level out the playing field With Takeing out High recast time spells.. Doom Rays and HT which makes it a comparison of 14 SK Spells VS. 12 Guard CA's We Come out looking like... Total ------- 459.37 Total Cast ------ 577 DPS ------- 1677 Mana -------- 14119 MAX Dmg ... So We Use up more Mana for our spell per Damage, We have longer recasts times. and our overall DPS is marginal at 700str/700 int Which 1400 points into DPS vs a guards 700str..... in which we are takeing hits on AGI to get to this...Plus A gaurd has A Higher Melee Rates .. So .. correct me if I'm wrong a SK at 700int / STR = a guard at 700str Or would the gaurd melee Do more ? Now We are supposed to use our Defensive Stance while tanking but that is a near 200int Nerf to us.. Which By these stats, Will put us well under a guard in DPS ... So....I don't Know anymore.. What do we gain by the Nerfed AGI , the Split DPS stats. The Itemizations problems of our set gears only have 90int ? I mean the only way I am going to beat a guard now is In DPS gear.. Where I am completly Speced for DPS and Not able to tank.. Hence High Parse ... But are we being attuned On DPS from these offensive suit parses ? which in Tern Disbalances us in the tanking field ?

Nor · 04-09-2008, 06:58 PM

Most classes agree that guardian DPS right now is way wrong - even on the warlock boards.

As for split stats, sk's are a hybrid - so it's always been this way, and always will.

Comparing classes is probably a bad thing to do, understandable of course, but the grass will always be greener in one place than another for...something.

That being said, I think every SK out there agrees with the fact that SK's have no defined purpose in raids or over some classes in groups - if you're not the MT. We aren't dps, not compared to...well, anything really, we can't tank and the only thing we add is some minor spell damage. Certainly not enough to really see placing us in front of a true dps class.

I think that any stance for each subclass (fighters) should even the playing field though. Offensive stance for class "A" fighter should make a similarly equiped class "B" fighter on par for the same dps, and likewise for defensive. As it stands right now, our stances do little to equalize the playing field for the fighter classes. Changing the stances would probably make the most sense as far as balancing, but if SOE really got down and looked at how much they would have to add to make SK's on par with brawlers or guardians, they might actually realize how out of whack things are. Of course, as history repeat's itself...that won't happen.

DMIstar · 04-09-2008, 07:55 PM

Yeah I left alot of the guard numbers out, Not to have it as a full blown comparison... But Unfortunetly We have to compare classes, due to thats the only way we can know where we are supposed to be at. The basis on this stems back to Moorguards Post on the Class DPS Tracking, that he posted a very long time back.. its just never been updated nor was anyone ever realy told whether this changed... Is grass going to be greener on the other side ? yes. But A. If we keep mouths shut, We will stay stagnant forever ... It won't fix itself ;P We hoped the Crusdar Gear would do that, and it didn't ;/.I agree Our stance needs to be majorly looked at. ... We are split in DPS, but its to Zero Gain for us to be split at this rate.. and even more so its hurting the class nowadays and not helping... And no it was not always like this. Thats the problem =P Its not balanced putting 1400 points in DPS to get the same result as 700 points of another class .. Its like Zerkers and guards putting in 1400 points between STA/AGI and seeing the same result in Tanking ability to us just putting in 700 in STA ... This will never happen =P. Both ways are broke. But overall my major concern is, We litterly have nothing going for us in tanking, Not aggro, Not Avoidence, and Not DPS, and cetainly not upkeep. I'm not the grass is greener type person.. I realy dont care.. Normally I do things out of the norm.. AKA for a few months now been trying to out parse myself in Healing ... to see what max i can get it. I deal with what I have.. but this is a little to much =P

Gehemnishthex · 04-10-2008, 12:28 PM

I personally just kind of thing they aught to add INT to all the items that are normally for buffing a Tank's DPS. ie vanguard crafted aught to be str, int, sta, agility, since int will only effect the SK and it will keep the set's original purpose of being a tank's armor.Alternately they could base our avoidance off of Int.Really I just hate having to juggle 4 stats. It's annoying and gear is almost never made to take that into consideration.

04-09-2008, 05:33 PM	#1
DMIstar Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 787	So We Take a nerf on Avoidence .... Our Mitigation, and Our Lifetaps are supposed to be the buffer for our Avoidence being nerfed... I went down that route number wise and it just does not add up. We are given a DoT taunt System.. Which some how our taunts Add up to lesser then the Other tanks.. And So I turn to our DPS to see if that Buffers the Loss in taunts... We are Split in DPS and Decided to see what gains we get from 1400 Dps in stats STR/INT vs Guards 700STR... and I come up with this:The First Column is our Spells/CAs Name.. Followed by Second Column Being The Cast time + Recast time.. To Show the Entire time the spell is in down stat, from initial cast to, it being ready for next ...The Third is our MAX Dmg on the spell Divided into the seconds the spell is completely Down.. Hence Damage per Second... This is because all the spells have different cast/recast timers individually.. As well as Guards.. So I cant assume to compare unless breaking it down like this... Fourth Column Is the mana Used per shot.. and Last Column is the Max Damage From each Spell... All These where Taken Down with NO CA, Spelldamage and 700str/700int ... The Guards have 12 Damage spells to the class that i've found... This does not include AA's of any sort.. The pure Basics. Even if I level out the playing field With Takeing out High recast time spells.. Doom Rays and HT which makes it a comparison of 14 SK Spells VS. 12 Guard CA's We Come out looking like... Total ------- 459.37 Total Cast ------ 577 DPS ------- 1677 Mana -------- 14119 MAX Dmg ... So We Use up more Mana for our spell per Damage, We have longer recasts times. and our overall DPS is marginal at 700str/700 int Which 1400 points into DPS vs a guards 700str..... in which we are takeing hits on AGI to get to this...Plus A gaurd has A Higher Melee Rates .. So .. correct me if I'm wrong a SK at 700int / STR = a guard at 700str Or would the gaurd melee Do more ? Now We are supposed to use our Defensive Stance while tanking but that is a near 200int Nerf to us.. Which By these stats, Will put us well under a guard in DPS ... So....I don't Know anymore.. What do we gain by the Nerfed AGI , the Split DPS stats. The Itemizations problems of our set gears only have 90int ? I mean the only way I am going to beat a guard now is In DPS gear.. Where I am completly Speced for DPS and Not able to tank.. Hence High Parse ... But are we being attuned On DPS from these offensive suit parses ? which in Tern Disbalances us in the tanking field ?

04-09-2008, 06:58 PM	#2
Nor General Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 104	Most classes agree that guardian DPS right now is way wrong - even on the warlock boards. As for split stats, sk's are a hybrid - so it's always been this way, and always will. Comparing classes is probably a bad thing to do, understandable of course, but the grass will always be greener in one place than another for...something. That being said, I think every SK out there agrees with the fact that SK's have no defined purpose in raids or over some classes in groups - if you're not the MT. We aren't dps, not compared to...well, anything really, we can't tank and the only thing we add is some minor spell damage. Certainly not enough to really see placing us in front of a true dps class. I think that any stance for each subclass (fighters) should even the playing field though. Offensive stance for class "A" fighter should make a similarly equiped class "B" fighter on par for the same dps, and likewise for defensive. As it stands right now, our stances do little to equalize the playing field for the fighter classes. Changing the stances would probably make the most sense as far as balancing, but if SOE really got down and looked at how much they would have to add to make SK's on par with brawlers or guardians, they might actually realize how out of whack things are. Of course, as history repeat's itself...that won't happen. __________________ Rigg O'Muertes 7x Shadowknight, Level 7x Alchemist Rume Phorent 7x Warlock Kris 5x Coercer "Until further notice, everything is working as intended..."

04-09-2008, 07:55 PM	#3
DMIstar Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 787	Yeah I left alot of the guard numbers out, Not to have it as a full blown comparison... But Unfortunetly We have to compare classes, due to thats the only way we can know where we are supposed to be at. The basis on this stems back to Moorguards Post on the Class DPS Tracking, that he posted a very long time back.. its just never been updated nor was anyone ever realy told whether this changed... Is grass going to be greener on the other side ? yes. But A. If we keep mouths shut, We will stay stagnant forever ... It won't fix itself ;P We hoped the Crusdar Gear would do that, and it didn't ;/.I agree Our stance needs to be majorly looked at. ... We are split in DPS, but its to Zero Gain for us to be split at this rate.. and even more so its hurting the class nowadays and not helping... And no it was not always like this. Thats the problem =P Its not balanced putting 1400 points in DPS to get the same result as 700 points of another class .. Its like Zerkers and guards putting in 1400 points between STA/AGI and seeing the same result in Tanking ability to us just putting in 700 in STA ... This will never happen =P. Both ways are broke. But overall my major concern is, We litterly have nothing going for us in tanking, Not aggro, Not Avoidence, and Not DPS, and cetainly not upkeep. I'm not the grass is greener type person.. I realy dont care.. Normally I do things out of the norm.. AKA for a few months now been trying to out parse myself in Healing ... to see what max i can get it. I deal with what I have.. but this is a little to much =P

04-10-2008, 12:28 PM	#4
Gehemnishthex Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 58	I personally just kind of thing they aught to add INT to all the items that are normally for buffing a Tank's DPS. ie vanguard crafted aught to be str, int, sta, agility, since int will only effect the SK and it will keep the set's original purpose of being a tank's armor.Alternately they could base our avoidance off of Int.Really I just hate having to juggle 4 stats. It's annoying and gear is almost never made to take that into consideration.