considering betraying

leprosa · 03-25-2008, 05:58 PM

greetings,

i am now 72 with 70aa, yea i know i am lacking in the aa. i only tank for groups unless i get invited to a weekend raid and then i don't tank i just dps. but i find it is a pain in the rear to hold agro in groups when there are any casters. i know how to pull, tank, and keep agro but it just seems i don't have the right tools to maintain agro. i love the dps berserkers have but i really want to be a solid tank and protect my group from death.

i am seriously considering betraying now that i am leveling again, didn't have RoK for a while so i was content to mentor tank. i am growing out of all my master 1 spells (was fully mastered at 70) so i figure now would be the time to betray if i did, but is it worth it?

questions:

as a berserker:

will i have better agro tools at 80?

once i get some aa into the EoF tree will agro be easier to maintain?

as a gaurdian:

what is the learning curve once i do betray?

can i use a tower shield as a gaurdian? (i just hate the dinner plate look of the buckler! )

how much coin will i have to invest to get the gaurdian skills up to par? (should i aim for ad3 for all skills upto 72?)

i play on the unrest server as Viskag the troll, drop me a line here or ingame if you have any advice for me. oh and come look at my house in East Freeport, i live above the bar next to the broker!

Bremer · 03-25-2008, 07:44 PM

leprosa wrote:

greetings,
i am now 72 with 70aa, yea i know i am lacking in the aa. i only tank for groups unless i get invited to a weekend raid and then i don't tank i just dps. but i find it is a pain in the rear to hold agro in groups when there are any casters. i know how to pull, tank, and keep agro but it just seems i don't have the right tools to maintain agro. i love the dps berserkers have but i really want to be a solid tank and protect my group from death.
If a tank loses aggro it's not always the fault of the tank
i am seriously considering betraying now that i am leveling again, didn't have RoK for a while so i was content to mentor tank. i am growing out of all my master 1 spells (was fully mastered at 70) so i figure now would be the time to betray if i did, but is it worth it?
questions:
as a berserker:
will i have better agro tools at 80?
No, but better DPS gear
once i get some aa into the EoF tree will agro be easier to maintain?
No
as a gaurdian:
what is the learning curve once i do betray?
Except specials an group buffs theis spells are more or less the same like ours.
can i use a tower shield as a gaurdian? (i just hate the dinner plate look of the buckler! )
If aggro is your problem using a tower shield instead of a buckler won't help you at all
how much coin will i have to invest to get the gaurdian skills up to par? (should i aim for ad3 for all skills upto 72?)
i play on the unrest server as Viskag the troll, drop me a line here or ingame if you have any advice for me. oh and come look at my house in East Freeport, i live above the bar next to the broker!

Xita · 03-25-2008, 08:54 PM

it does sound like guard is probably the better class for you, zerkers can hold aggro, but we have to work at it, and it doesnt get easier at 80.

LygerT · 03-26-2008, 01:50 AM

guardians don't have it any easier than we do in heroic instances as tanks and holding aggro, if anything i would bet it's easier for us to hold aggro except on some fights where taunts are crucial like on Drusella but that is one of so very few fights that it isn't worthy of a deciding factor.

leprosa · 03-26-2008, 10:47 AM

last night for the hell of it i mentored down to 62 and ran with a group to SoS. it was two shamans, monk, bruiser, assassin and me. we were easily killing 65 mobs and agro was no problem even though everyone was going all out. this gives me hope for staying a berserker! i switched my aa points around before we started to str 4 4 8 sta 4 4 8 5 wis 4 4 8 6 2 and int 4 1 which seemed to help me with dps and agro. at the end of the run we did a zone wide parse and i beat out the assassin by a few hundred dps and i was mentoring him so we were the same level. i know i have a few levels of gear and such on him but it just made me feel good SMILEY i will keep leveling and grind my way to 80, but when i am feeling down, i think i will take a night off and mentor to make me feel good SMILEY

what i got out of this experience is, perhaps berserkers are meant to be tanking mobs slightly lower. i am not talkin mentored lower, but perhaps we are made to tank mobs 1 or more levels below us? can tank offensive all the time and not fear to much of the horrable spike damage orange mobs give.

just updateing my thoughts on betraying and i think i will stick with the mouth frothing berserker for a while.

Fiercemind · 03-27-2008, 03:26 AM

I recently betrayed, but I'm the MT for my guild. IMO, Guards are the best Raid Tanks. Zerkers are best Group Tanks.

I can tell you I had better aggro as my zerk, than my guard within the Non Raid Instances.

Reason. Zerks own AE mobs. Adds are common within group instances

If you are going to MT in a RAID in ROK instances (less AE mobs here), betray to a Guard. Zerks can do them, its just harder.

p.s. You may have a harder time with aggro as a zerker, if you are defensive. As you get better gear (even within the instances), you will be able to stay offensive, which equals DPS AGGRO.

As a zerk, I would stay away from AGI, and Wis AA lines. Possibly choose the WIS line, only if you are getting beaten up (to avoid the stance penalties). In group instances this was never an issue for me.

Nembutal · 03-27-2008, 02:43 PM

leprosa wrote:

last night for the hell of it i mentored down to 62 and ran with a group to SoS. it was two shamans, monk, bruiser, assassin and me. we were easily killing 65 mobs and agro was no problem even though everyone was going all out. this gives me hope for staying a berserker! i switched my aa points around before we started to str 4 4 8 sta 4 4 8 5 wis 4 4 8 6 2 and int 4 1 which seemed to help me with dps and agro. at the end of the run we did a zone wide parse and i beat out the assassin by a few hundred dps and i was mentoring him so we were the same level. i know i have a few levels of gear and such on him but it just made me feel good " /> i will keep leveling and grind my way to 80, but when i am feeling down, i think i will take a night off and mentor to make me feel good " />
what i got out of this experience is, perhaps berserkers are meant to be tanking mobs slightly lower. i am not talkin mentored lower, but perhaps we are made to tank mobs 1 or more levels below us? can tank offensive all the time and not fear to much of the horrable spike damage orange mobs give.
just updateing my thoughts on betraying and i think i will stick with the mouth frothing berserker for a while.

That doesn't count.When you are mentored you are not "the same level"... well TECHNICALLY it displays at such.. but in reality... not so much.My berserker when mentored with my fury when mentored... on any random lvl 60 class... could kill an entire group of lvl 60s (1 human per toon) with just me controlling my team of 3... I'd place a cash bet on it.Why do I say that? Well... I'm a multi-boxer... I mentor down to help my bros who are multi-boxers... and I can tell you that when I join thier group as the zerker-tank... they don't need to heal me on anything white or below.... try pulling white mobs at lvl 80 un-mentored... you will not have an easy time with it... try having ANY lvl 60 tank a lvl 60 white con heroic mob... and they will not have an easy time of it... yet I don't even need healed when mentored from 80 to 60 on the same mob.A lot of people don't realize how much more powerful you are when mentored down... but I suggest to any one who is hoping to level more than 1 toon... if you have a tank that can mentor you in good gear... that's what you want right there. If I was content to grind on white con mobs for exp my illu and inq would easily be 80... my issue is I need the AA from quests... piloting with my tank where I can't see the quest markers above NPC heads and I end up having to slow down so I can see them on the side monitors... would be better if the person leading the group is working the same quests... tracking is handy also which in my zerk, inq, illu combo I am lacking. (as well as ports and evacs... zerk, fury, dirge is still my favorite combo)

Vsevolod · 04-02-2008, 03:05 AM

How do you betray to a guardian please?

denmom · 04-12-2008, 04:02 PM

Vsevolod wrote:

How do you betray to a guardian please?

Run your city betrayal, go to Exile, then work faction back with either the city you left or the opposite alignment. When you finish at the end, you speak to the trainer. Speak to the GUARDIAN trainer, and you'll change over.You don't need to leave your city if you like your alignment. Just go to Exile and work faction back again to your city. Just remember to speak to the Guardian trainer.

Xita · 04-14-2008, 04:14 PM

to the OP: i noticed you had an assassin in your mentored down group, which means hate transfer. Give me an assassin and a dirge, i never lose aggro. Throw me in a group with a wizzy, a brig, an illu, a fury, and a monk... well I call it group tank as the aggro bounces everywhere, but the mob doesnt live long enough for it to matter...

03-25-2008, 07:44 PM	#2
Bremer Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,902	leprosa wrote: greetings, i am now 72 with 70aa, yea i know i am lacking in the aa. i only tank for groups unless i get invited to a weekend raid and then i don't tank i just dps. but i find it is a pain in the rear to hold agro in groups when there are any casters. i know how to pull, tank, and keep agro but it just seems i don't have the right tools to maintain agro. i love the dps berserkers have but i really want to be a solid tank and protect my group from death. If a tank loses aggro it's not always the fault of the tank i am seriously considering betraying now that i am leveling again, didn't have RoK for a while so i was content to mentor tank. i am growing out of all my master 1 spells (was fully mastered at 70) so i figure now would be the time to betray if i did, but is it worth it? questions: as a berserker: will i have better agro tools at 80? No, but better DPS gear once i get some aa into the EoF tree will agro be easier to maintain? No as a gaurdian: what is the learning curve once i do betray? Except specials an group buffs theis spells are more or less the same like ours. can i use a tower shield as a gaurdian? (i just hate the dinner plate look of the buckler! ) If aggro is your problem using a tower shield instead of a buckler won't help you at all how much coin will i have to invest to get the gaurdian skills up to par? (should i aim for ad3 for all skills upto 72?) i play on the unrest server as Viskag the troll, drop me a line here or ingame if you have any advice for me. oh and come look at my house in East Freeport, i live above the bar next to the broker!

03-25-2008, 08:54 PM	#3
Xita Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 308	it does sound like guard is probably the better class for you, zerkers can hold aggro, but we have to work at it, and it doesnt get easier at 80. __________________

03-26-2008, 10:47 AM	#5
leprosa Loremaster Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 6	last night for the hell of it i mentored down to 62 and ran with a group to SoS. it was two shamans, monk, bruiser, assassin and me. we were easily killing 65 mobs and agro was no problem even though everyone was going all out. this gives me hope for staying a berserker! i switched my aa points around before we started to str 4 4 8 sta 4 4 8 5 wis 4 4 8 6 2 and int 4 1 which seemed to help me with dps and agro. at the end of the run we did a zone wide parse and i beat out the assassin by a few hundred dps and i was mentoring him so we were the same level. i know i have a few levels of gear and such on him but it just made me feel good i will keep leveling and grind my way to 80, but when i am feeling down, i think i will take a night off and mentor to make me feel good what i got out of this experience is, perhaps berserkers are meant to be tanking mobs slightly lower. i am not talkin mentored lower, but perhaps we are made to tank mobs 1 or more levels below us? can tank offensive all the time and not fear to much of the horrable spike damage orange mobs give. just updateing my thoughts on betraying and i think i will stick with the mouth frothing berserker for a while.

03-27-2008, 02:43 PM	#7
Nembutal Loremaster Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 386	leprosa wrote: last night for the hell of it i mentored down to 62 and ran with a group to SoS. it was two shamans, monk, bruiser, assassin and me. we were easily killing 65 mobs and agro was no problem even though everyone was going all out. this gives me hope for staying a berserker! i switched my aa points around before we started to str 4 4 8 sta 4 4 8 5 wis 4 4 8 6 2 and int 4 1 which seemed to help me with dps and agro. at the end of the run we did a zone wide parse and i beat out the assassin by a few hundred dps and i was mentoring him so we were the same level. i know i have a few levels of gear and such on him but it just made me feel good " /> i will keep leveling and grind my way to 80, but when i am feeling down, i think i will take a night off and mentor to make me feel good " /> what i got out of this experience is, perhaps berserkers are meant to be tanking mobs slightly lower. i am not talkin mentored lower, but perhaps we are made to tank mobs 1 or more levels below us? can tank offensive all the time and not fear to much of the horrable spike damage orange mobs give. just updateing my thoughts on betraying and i think i will stick with the mouth frothing berserker for a while. That doesn't count.When you are mentored you are not "the same level"... well TECHNICALLY it displays at such.. but in reality... not so much.My berserker when mentored with my fury when mentored... on any random lvl 60 class... could kill an entire group of lvl 60s (1 human per toon) with just me controlling my team of 3... I'd place a cash bet on it.Why do I say that? Well... I'm a multi-boxer... I mentor down to help my bros who are multi-boxers... and I can tell you that when I join thier group as the zerker-tank... they don't need to heal me on anything white or below.... try pulling white mobs at lvl 80 un-mentored... you will not have an easy time with it... try having ANY lvl 60 tank a lvl 60 white con heroic mob... and they will not have an easy time of it... yet I don't even need healed when mentored from 80 to 60 on the same mob.A lot of people don't realize how much more powerful you are when mentored down... but I suggest to any one who is hoping to level more than 1 toon... if you have a tank that can mentor you in good gear... that's what you want right there. If I was content to grind on white con mobs for exp my illu and inq would easily be 80... my issue is I need the AA from quests... piloting with my tank where I can't see the quest markers above NPC heads and I end up having to slow down so I can see them on the side monitors... would be better if the person leading the group is working the same quests... tracking is handy also which in my zerk, inq, illu combo I am lacking. (as well as ports and evacs... zerk, fury, dirge is still my favorite combo)

04-12-2008, 04:02 PM	#9
denmom Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Paradigm Clutch: Never shift reality without one... Posts: 2,490	Vsevolod wrote: How do you betray to a guardian please? Run your city betrayal, go to Exile, then work faction back with either the city you left or the opposite alignment. When you finish at the end, you speak to the trainer. Speak to the GUARDIAN trainer, and you'll change over.You don't need to leave your city if you like your alignment. Just go to Exile and work faction back again to your city. Just remember to speak to the Guardian trainer. __________________ What I do when not playing EQ2: Paradigm Clutch

03-25-2008, 05:58 PM	#1
leprosa Loremaster Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 6	greetings, i am now 72 with 70aa, yea i know i am lacking in the aa. i only tank for groups unless i get invited to a weekend raid and then i don't tank i just dps. but i find it is a pain in the rear to hold agro in groups when there are any casters. i know how to pull, tank, and keep agro but it just seems i don't have the right tools to maintain agro. i love the dps berserkers have but i really want to be a solid tank and protect my group from death. i am seriously considering betraying now that i am leveling again, didn't have RoK for a while so i was content to mentor tank. i am growing out of all my master 1 spells (was fully mastered at 70) so i figure now would be the time to betray if i did, but is it worth it? questions: as a berserker: will i have better agro tools at 80? once i get some aa into the EoF tree will agro be easier to maintain? as a gaurdian: what is the learning curve once i do betray? can i use a tower shield as a gaurdian? (i just hate the dinner plate look of the buckler! ) how much coin will i have to invest to get the gaurdian skills up to par? (should i aim for ad3 for all skills upto 72?) i play on the unrest server as Viskag the troll, drop me a line here or ingame if you have any advice for me. oh and come look at my house in East Freeport, i live above the bar next to the broker!

03-26-2008, 01:50 AM	#4
LygerT Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: las vegas, NV Posts: 2,144	guardians don't have it any easier than we do in heroic instances as tanks and holding aggro, if anything i would bet it's easier for us to hold aggro except on some fights where taunts are crucial like on Drusella but that is one of so very few fights that it isn't worthy of a deciding factor.

03-27-2008, 03:26 AM	#6
Fiercemind Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 51	I recently betrayed, but I'm the MT for my guild. IMO, Guards are the best Raid Tanks. Zerkers are best Group Tanks. I can tell you I had better aggro as my zerk, than my guard within the Non Raid Instances. Reason. Zerks own AE mobs. Adds are common within group instances If you are going to MT in a RAID in ROK instances (less AE mobs here), betray to a Guard. Zerks can do them, its just harder. p.s. You may have a harder time with aggro as a zerker, if you are defensive. As you get better gear (even within the instances), you will be able to stay offensive, which equals DPS AGGRO. As a zerk, I would stay away from AGI, and Wis AA lines. Possibly choose the WIS line, only if you are getting beaten up (to avoid the stance penalties). In group instances this was never an issue for me.

04-02-2008, 03:05 AM	#8
Vsevolod Elder Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 6	How do you betray to a guardian please?

04-14-2008, 04:14 PM	#10
Xita Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 308	to the OP: i noticed you had an assassin in your mentored down group, which means hate transfer. Give me an assassin and a dirge, i never lose aggro. Throw me in a group with a wizzy, a brig, an illu, a fury, and a monk... well I call it group tank as the aggro bounces everywhere, but the mob doesnt live long enough for it to matter... __________________