Shadow Knight RoK Armor Progression (Images)

[DMIstar]

Now alot of people are signing off that RoK was the ruin of Shadowknights and Stats.. I disagree.. My Sole Example is the once anticipated, yet now dreaded Dogmatic Armor Set, that introduced to us Set Gear.... I was realy Looking forward to Set gear, But Not something that Introduced us to a gear partnership with another class... A class that is vastly Different. My Major Point on this is:We Should Not Be Punished for Shareing Armor With another Diverse Class.ShadowKnights to Pallies is like Furies to Necromancers. We Share 2 Stats .. then after that we have no similarities in stats.. yet we are pushed together for some unknown reason other then the word "Crusader" So lets look at our crash point and reasons why we cant keep up with others.. Our Gear... First Set is the lowest Set we can obtain in RoK ... Mastercrafted.Incarnadine Armor:DPS Front:STR= 175INT= 210Mana= 630Spell Dmg = 315CA Dmg = 315Tank Front:STA = 175Health = 630Mitigation = 2,181This shows our basics, why minstration on there, only the devs can tell.... This suit Caters to Our stats as best it can.. Its just ashame the Mit is so low on it. Because after here .. it gets worse ..Next Up our Legendary gear : This used be Pally/SK only in Beta. Stats:DPS Front: STR= 140INT = 72Mana = 795SD= 110CA = 75DA = 2MC = 2Tank Front:STA: 166Health = 795Mit = 3,686Def = 4Aggr = 4Parry = 4Off Stats:AGI = 50Wis = 69Now Firstly Don't get yourself over on the Extra Additives, Def/ag/Parry and all, The Onslaught gear for the guards get the same thing progressing at this stage.. as well as this is legendary gear, there i s always a gain in MIt/HP/Mana We are not seeing something special here. Major Diverse Pieces of concern is the stats.. We Loose out in each and every base stat we need from this, and One of them is critical to the class... INT. Upon this change we Take:STR = -35INT = -138 STA = -9We Gain No Stats here.. Why? Because The system is told for us to share gear... Heres what the Guards/Zerkers loose on this same switch from Vanguard to Onslaught:Vanguard: STR= 175, STA= 210, AGI= 175Onslaught: STR = 169, STA=208, AGI=113STR = - 6STA = - 2AGI = - 62For the Gain of the regulare HP/Power/MIt and DA/MC/Aggression/Def/SLash You'll also notice further from here, all guards/zerkers set gear focuses on STR/STA/AGI, where ours has no real focus other then STA and Some STR... Now Lets see our Core Raiding gear ... Demonguard set: Stats:DPS Front: STR= 186INT= 90Mana= 1,240Spell DMG = 200CA = 75Melee Crit = 3 Tank Front:STA= 202Health = 1,200Mit = 3,942Block = 5Other STats:AGI = 56WIs= 76 Yet again we are punished for the joint Crusader gear ... Our INT is still no where, where it should be.. Which makes the MC crated gear better.  We just beat the MC gear in STR...  and STA but For what gain ? Why is this fabled ?STR = +11INT = -120STA= +27Spell Dmg = -115CA = -240Melee Crit = +3Block = +5 The losses are real numbers here and this over a Crafted set ;/ Just because we are grouped with the wrong class.. So is there extra ordinary Jumps in MIT, HP, Power ? No... We went from in HP: 630, 795, 1200Guards in Same Progression is: 630 (vangaurd), 795(onslaught), 1,280(Wrathbringer)and this continues ... We do gain more in power but that is the difference in Class! These three sets are what the core of the player base is going for, Yet it takes Them to get to the end of game just see redemption in thier hard work, Which how many are going to see before the next expansion ? Here is the leap, once you get to where the Gear should be... Class Defined : Stats:DPS Front:STR= 248INT = 218Mana = 1,500Spell Dmg = 75CA Dmg = 100?Melee Crit = 7Haste = 5DPS = 5Tank Front:STA = 224Health = 1,500Mit = 4,300Other StatsAGI = 72 See the difference? our Int is where it should be, as well as our STA and STR... Yet we have to fight with Broken gear all they upto this point, or keep master crafted........

[Mathafern]

Nice analysis.  No doubt about it, gearing is a PITA for SK, just because of the split CA and spell dam, and then add on the four useful stats. We did get a boost with the new chromatic essence gear, at least, in that we can best take advantage of the LORE charms, wishbone and chicken foot.  I was hoping we'd see some more SK oriented plate with that, but no such luck.

[Dragon]

Apathetic set of gear.  LOL  sorry, someone had to do it... even though in Greek, the a- means anti-.But yeah, would love to see more SK focused gear.  The mastercrafted sets are nice because you can pick and choose what stats you want.  If you go with the int/str/sta set for armor, you can make up the rest of your stats with jewelry and increase your melee and avoidance some.It suxx being an oddball class, but it is kinda why we play it, no?

[DMIstar]

Its one thing being the odd ball, But its another being so far behind in stats in comparison to other class Armor Progressions. While we are being booted back to T5 armor stats with 70 and 90 int and Hits on STR.. The Guards and Zerkers are seeing regular progression.. up to thier class sets. Plus Tanking abilities along the way to boot .  This is a good root of the cause that we are haveing the tanking problems. with our armor set we can't even have ou r base stats to where they should be.. Let alone h ave any Tank stats along.

[DMIstar]

Well To go over the Chromatic Gear, Di'Zok Emblazoned.. I useing this andseem to be doing quiet well with it as well... Which i can think as an alternative To crusader gear other then the BP and Legs ofcourse...

But though to compare the two Stat wise on this itemization trak this iswhat i get ...

       Di'Zok    Demongaurd    Demongaurd Variance

Str   210      186                    -24Sta  175      202                    +27Int   175      90                      -85

Wis  210     76                      -134AGI  0         56                      +56

HP   840     1200                  +360PW  840     1240                  +400

Mit   3290   3942                  +652

CA   175     75                      -100BL    0        5                        +5SD   0        200                    +200 MC   0        3                        +3

Again Di'Zok is easier to obtain and ofcourse does not drop off high lvl raid tiers like Pawbuster, Venril sathir and the such, and is not our sought aftergear before VP... Hence the Mit, PW, HP, Vairiances should adjust to level and difficulty hence.. We are not sacing stats to up power/hp/mit. Demongaurd should not = Di'zok, it should be better... not a comparison if you take this stat to gain this in another stat..... doing another set for the chromatic MC series is fine and all well for it...

My major concern is the base stats... The CA/SP and such is a different concern.

[DMIstar]

To clean the post up, to view what is seen easier, think this will help....

 

As I said before... The first issue with the SK tanking bit is itemization.... We Get a clear set on Itemization it will actually balance us to where the game wants us better...

 Our issues Ive Seen Posted have been:

• Agro Control
• Tank Upkeep

Agro Control: has been The Most debated about us.. We have a good amount of DPS to sustain Aggro, Its just since our Group/Mid Raid gear is such a mess, we are inadvertantly takeing hits on our DPS, hence Lowering Our Aggro control...

As Well as, even when we get itemizated out, our Dot Taunts system is off, but if we are not itemized there will never be a true fix to this other then hit and see what happens ...

 Tank Upkeep: I  believe is itemization, but more on the We lack Def, Parry, Block Gear and the such... Amazingly our group gear gets it... and our Class gear gets its.. But thats it. Our mid tier raid gear is out on some hike or something .... other then 5% block...

Now i know Legenardy and such is our mid Piece put together suits, but i should be considereing Our progression gear something.. Right now i Do two Sets of gear, one DPS and one Tank.... I should not be looking at Mid Tier Raid Gloves and saying meh ... and keeping with what i got.

[Bruener]

Yes, I think everybody and their brother knows that itemization for Crusaders is a complete joke.  The biggest problem is the point value system that SOE uses to make all their items.  Reason - - - well Crusaders take a lot more stats (meaning a lot more points) to achieve the same increase that the other classes recieve.  We need probably twice as many of the DPS stats to get the same increase.  A warrior for example gets increase in DPS and their power pool for just STR.  SK's on the other hand get their increase in DPS and their power pool from STR and INT...split.  So 200 STR to a warrior is like 100 STR for us.  Meaning all those items you see with a ton of STR on them should have an equal amount of INT on them as well, but SOE's point value system for making items tell them that that is too many stats on an item and that it is "over-powered", when in fact it would be where it should be.

Crits are another huge area where this makes a difference.  Melee crits for warriors give them an increase to their auto attack damage and increases their CA damage as well...so an all around increase to DPS.  For SK's on the other hand since half of our DPS comes from Melee and half from Spells it means we only get half the increase for either one that SOE puts on an item....so to make it an equivalant increase to DPS for crusaders as it is for warriors those items that have +melee crit on them should also include the same amount of +spell crit....again thanks to SOE's point value system on items this won't be allowed.

Furthermore, it is the same exact case for +spell damage and +CA damage.  SOE has finally started to address this somewhat in the change they made to our class set making it so that pieces add to spell damage AND CA damage instead of one way or another.  Now if we could get them to do this with all RoK gear and to do it for crits and int/str this would be a huge leap in the right direction.

[Skua]

Bruener wrote:

Yes, I think everybody and their brother knows that itemization for Crusaders is a complete joke.  The biggest problem is the point value system that SOE uses to make all their items.  Reason - - - well Crusaders take a lot more stats (meaning a lot more points) to achieve the same increase that the other classes recieve.  We need probably twice as many of the DPS stats to get the same increase.  A warrior for example gets increase in DPS and their power pool for just STR.  SK's on the other hand get their increase in DPS and their power pool from STR and INT...split.  So 200 STR to a warrior is like 100 STR for us.  Meaning all those items you see with a ton of STR on them should have an equal amount of INT on them as well, but SOE's point value system for making items tell them that that is too many stats on an item and that it is "over-powered", when in fact it would be where it should be.

Crits are another huge area where this makes a difference.  Melee crits for warriors give them an increase to their auto attack damage and increases their CA damage as well...so an all around increase to DPS.  For SK's on the other hand since half of our DPS comes from Melee and half from Spells it means we only get half the increase for either one that SOE puts on an item....so to make it an equivalant increase to DPS for crusaders as it is for warriors those items that have +melee crit on them should also include the same amount of +spell crit....again thanks to SOE's point value system on items this won't be allowed.

Furthermore, it is the same exact case for +spell damage and +CA damage.  SOE has finally started to address this somewhat in the change they made to our class set making it so that pieces add to spell damage AND CA damage instead of one way or another.  Now if we could get them to do this with all RoK gear and to do it for crits and int/str this would be a huge leap in the right direction.

QFT

[Mathafern]

To me, the equipment problem is actually two separate problems- either one might be tolerable, but together it really stacks up: - Crusader gear is optimized for Pallys not SK.  Just look at the divine damage on Sanctified gear.  Yeah, my disease mit reduction works really well with that...  and how nice to have all the wisdom. - Crusaders in general have the problem of split melee/spell damage.  That's split CA/SD, and split STR/INT.  The only thing even remotely comforting is that the curve on stats is such that it isn't really a 50% reduction in effectiveness. Devout MC gear tells me the devs know how to fix the problem.  Now they just need to make some instance sets that actually take SK into account, rather than Pally specific garbage. Speaking of Sanctified- anyone know what, if any, bonus there is for a full set of 7 pieces?  I have yet to get the Sabatons, just curious if it's worth bothering.

[Hamervelder]

Di'Zok stuff seems pretty well-suited to SK's, IMO.  I'm disappointed at the total lack of any AGI, but it does have both STR and INT, so that's a big plus.  As far as easily-attainable armor goes, I've seen little that suits SK's better.  But looking at some of the comparisons, I have to agree with the sentiment that raid armor just isn't cutting it.

[Soefje]

I would like to see the Ravaged Onslaught gear added to this analysis.  Right now I am using a mix and match set for Onslaught and other legendary gear from ROK quests.  I am thinking about looking at the Di'Zok set, just curious what I would be losing versus Onslaught.I am an armorer, so I can make my own Di'Zok gear.

[DMIstar]

Kraace@Everfrost wrote:

I would like to see the Ravaged Onslaught gear added to this analysis.  Right now I am using a mix and match set for Onslaught and other legendary gear from ROK quests.  I am thinking about looking at the Di'Zok set, just curious what I would be losing versus Onslaught.I am an armorer, so I can make my own Di'Zok gear.

Reasoning I didnt include Ravaged, was for it was speced for guard/bersereker.. Was actually blocked from us during beta as well. But they opened it up.. Since Im putting this up, will show the progression of Wars for MC/Group/Mid raid.. This will not include the class gear .. This is not saying that gaurd/berserk gear is messed up, just pointing out the more of an itemize progression they have.. Vanguard=MC, Ravaged=Group, Wrathbringer=Midtier Raid.now a good defense is to say you can fill in the gap with Jewlry slots.. I heard Moorguard state this long ago... But See, Even on basic Level jewlry which is MC .. They have a STR/STA/AGI line for guards to keep up.. Where As We Either Choose to ditch INT or STR ;/ So your talking 9 Different Jewlry SLots... 2x Ear, 2x Ring, 1x Neck, 2x Wrist, 1x Waist, 1x Ranged SlotSo Your talking alone You choose through MC ... either 270str/270sta/270agi or 270sta, 270wis, 270int ... Which most sk s will choose the agi/STR...  So where we loose, The other tanks are staying at a regular pace... Compareing fully MC Guard/Bersker to an SK on basic stats look like this.... Guard Berserker:445-str480-sta445-agiSK:Either:445-str445-sta210-intor 175-str445-sta490-int ... but we get 270 Nerfed AGI ! the one way.... Which makes me think, Why is our AGI nerfed both with gear and Base stat caculations ?

[Phelon_Skellhound]

shameless bump in hope of a Moderator to send this info on up the line.... also hoping for such Moderator to acknowledge that much too :c)

[Jerik_EQ2]

Ahh... I was hearing a lot about the issues with SK itemization, but this really makes if clear.  Thanks for putting together such a nice analysis.

[Razlath]

I have a question here.  I am noticing that AGI is often put into the "random stat that doesn't really matter" pile.  Is this true?  I thought AGI made our avoidance higher.  Should a tank spec not be focusing on getting some good AGI behind them?  Does the answer change if you are a Dark Elf which has a naturally higher AGI than other SK friendly races?

I have been feeling like my tanking has begun to slip since I started focusing more on INT, and I want to be sure I am undertanding my stats correctly.  I had thought that maybe it was due to sacrificing AGI for INT.

If I decide to go the route of two sets of armor (seems like maybe I should) would the Tank set focus on AGI as well?  Some of the posts seem to indicate that would not be the case.

Thanks!

[seamus]

Do you folks feel the mit of the Di'zok gear makes up for the loss of int, ca and spell dmg modifiers of incardine? I actually feel the two sets are fairly close.

[DMIstar]

"I have a question here.  I am noticing that AGI is often put into the "random stat that doesn't really matter" pile.  Is this true?  I thought AGI made our avoidance higher.  Should a tank spec not be focusing on getting some good AGI behind them?  Does the answer change if you are a Dark Elf which has a naturally higher AGI than other SK friendly races?"

A. The answer is debateable.. The pile that i have it in, Is due to where it is in the way of stats given according to the Class Set progression. In view I hold AGI better then WIS, for the avoidence part. But I personally Hold INT of more value then AGI.. But that is the debatable part that many are split on.

 B. Not realy

"I have been feeling like my tanking has begun to slip since I started focusing more on INT, and I want to be sure I am undertanding my stats correctly.  I had thought that maybe it was due to sacrificing AGI for INT."

 With More INT you should have better Aggro Management, With More AGI you will be hit less due to avoidence gains. With Going INT I focus on Grave blessings and Taps first then, Taunts/DPS. Try that out see where you land.

"If I decide to go the route of two sets of armor (seems like maybe I should) would the Tank set focus on AGI as well?  Some of the posts seem to indicate that would not be the case.

Thanks!"

Soley up to you.. I recommend two sets one DPS and One Tanking, that way when not tanking you can still contribute to the group or raid. Plus you can get a better grasp on both ends.

  "Do you folks feel the mit of the Di'zok gear makes up for the loss of int, ca and spell dmg modifiers of incardine? I actually feel the two sets are fairly close"

I think the two sets are realy similar as well.. Though I have been using Dizok for tanking For the Mit gains, to keep my INT. The base resists and Mit are higher overall to incardine. Group wise i still do not have trouble keeping aggro against (Most) People... Some on the other hand just push it *cough* brigands.

[Phelon_Skellhound]

The Demonguard BP dropped for the first time yesterday on Butcherblock (could that be right?) *sigh*

[Phelon_Skellhound]

Is this still right on the mark still? Anyone heard about about anything about Itemization for us yet?

Hope you don't mind Istar/Grimgrave that I reposted this wonderful analysis you have to the Items and Equipment part of these forums...

[Tiberuis]

Khatiru@Butcherblock wrote:

The Demonguard BP dropped for the first time yesterday on Butcherblock (could that be right?) *sigh*

That's the sad state of our class right now Khatiru.  I bet you it dropped for the resident Pally OT, lol.

I hope the next GU addresses itemization, and a much needed bonus for 2 Handers for Crusaders. 

Single stat + Damage bonuses for both Spells and Combat Arts on Crusader class/subclass armour sets across the board makes perfect sense.

Double attack bonus for 2 Handers seems the most logical way to go for weapon itemization.

Waiting for the next GU my fellow SK's.  Pray for rain. 

[Norrsken]

I know why the devout set has ministration. Its the best gear for inqies that wanna dps as well.

[Giral]

Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:

I know why the devout set has ministration. " width="15" height="15" /> Its the best gear for inqies that wanna dps as well.

sadly Inquisitors are feelin the pain also , they are the Sk of the healing Class in ROk,all other healers are easier to use in instances, and at high end raiding Inquis isnt needed , there Dps hasn't gone up to equal out the lesser healing and they also dont have good itemization(fyreflyte FTL) and there mythical is nothing to write home about  , and of course i play an inquis also cuase i just have a nack for picking classes Soe dont have a clue about.   (and the Inquis forums also never get Dev repsonses /Hummmm)

[Jerik_EQ2]

sooo... given this post, what gear should a newly level 80 SK start working towards?  I'm not in a raiding guild, so the Demonguard and Apathetic stuff is out of reach.

[DMIstar]

Its up in the air... Which was the reasoning for this post.. theres no real direction out there... you can Focus only on 3 stats a time logically.. with the way the gear is setup.. STR/INT focusing will get you DPS for groups.. STA/AGI is going to give you more Tank stats... 

It boils down to how good of a player you are and how good of healer you have.. I've done these group zones full offensive spec with good healers, where as others i have to be more with defensive armor.. Group Zones are not realy much on tanking.

[Vaelaen]

I'm 69 right now, but have made my lvl 72 armor purchases. i went with a mix of vanguard, devout and legendary. for the vanguard i went with the arms, bracer and helm for the +1 to shield block on each piece. for devout i went with the gloves and boots for the +45 to ca and spell dmg and +int. and the legendary i went with the bp and legs.. cant remember the name, but they have 490 mit each with decent stats and effects (and were cheaper then crafted). picking up the haste cloak and str ring. looking at symbols, and will probably go with the tynnonium one.  for the charm, i am completing the missing mask quest today (10 str 25 agi +300 to 3 resists and 30 hp/power with right click def illusion). grizzfazzle shield and crafted imbued and blessed weapons with phantom handles. for adornments, im going with the most reasonably priced parry and +vs slash/ crush/ pierce ones along with some filler stat adding ones (int ears and such). when i hit 72 ill post back here with my total stats.. my plan is to be able to go defensive stance and hold agro. i plan on filling in the jewelry items with rok quest pieces.

[rabid.pooh]

Jerik_EQ2 wrote:

sooo... given this post, what gear should a newly level 80 SK start working towards?  I'm not in a raiding guild, so the Demonguard and Apathetic stuff is out of reach.

There are some pretty decent gear drops in RE2, try and farm the plate out of there and mix with sanct set and onslaught set.  And then whatever piece upgrades you can squeeze out while you go along.  The ancient dreadscale greeves are also pretty decent and can be broker bought.

[Mathafern]

Agility is good to have, up to a point.  When I'm MT I take agi potions to help my avoidance along, gets it up around 580.  Much better to dodge a hit than mitigate it, particularly an epic hit.  When I OT I take int potions instead, for extra DPS. There is a diminishing return on all stats, though, so if you already have plenty then focus on something else.  I think around 600 agi you're wasting your time with this, better to raise int str or sta, whichever is lowest.

[Imperias]

Blame SoE and how they hate our class... Only thing they did to make us feel better is aour HT and all its upgrades XD