On Dire Charm, Hate, Crowd Control, and whatever else...

Grimlux · 02-16-2008, 06:31 PM

I truly love this class and whether or not anything is broken per se'. I believe that giving complaints without a suggestion on what could be done to fix is just called whining...something seen throughout all of these forums.

Charming - In groups that do not have a ton of Mellee dps I usually am able to keep enough concentration to use this as a secondary crowd control. With 5/5 enhance charming my mobs break left and right. With the new 50% reduction to charmed pet DPS, I sincerely believe giving Coercers a dire charm can make up for that. In EQ1 we all were used to even raid zones having a crappy mob, so that the enchanters could have a pet to support and pad what little dps they provided, but enourmous utility given.

Hate - Our last spell received for this is at level 52. I think poor planning possibly was the reason for this. If levels stopped at 60 nobody will ever need more hate then this, but now that were 80 there is still no upgrade to our hate buff. A possible fix to this would be to look at all classes with targetable hate buffs and to review them. This could be done in a cumulative way as such (Level 24 - 5% <---an example number) 5% each 10 levels. 1 to 5 pts extra depending on grade. Its obvious hate% numbers just got way to high to upgrade us.

Crowd Control - You dont see it to much pre-60 and "Most" of the unimportant mobs are able to be crowd controlled. Why bring a coercer to something important when the mobs are immune to 1/2 the spells. There are mobs immune to our main source of DPS (Sibyllant Line), this boggles me. One easy fix to this would be to make Mesmerize and crowd control effects require concentration. I know it sounds like another nerf, but if you could mezmerize anything, wouldnt that be worth it? Epic mobs would still be under the "only affects epic mobs for xx period of time" business. Stunning is a whole nother story. I cant imagine what needs to have a stun immunity in this game besides raid bosses.

DEE-PEE-ESS - Since we have none, beginning and endgame one easy bandaid that can be made to the coercer class is to give them a proc damage buff for their main DD spell. (Look at it like the Inquisitor healing self buff) Whenever coercer casts their DD spell, it has a chance to proc more damage. You could even be clever and have it be a buff with a chance to cast an identical spell that you just cast on your target somewhat like the brigand ability. Being at the top of the DPS charts is not a coercer's goal, contributing to their raid or group is.

The Coercer does need help, but its not all bad either. I have been in groups that have been really grateful for having a coercer. We are at this current moment power masters, healer buffers, ratonga/troll illusion givers! I love when I see people post constructively. Even if a developer never even looks at any of this its always nice to dream or feel that maybe there will be a part to play in the revolution of the coercer, that needs to happen.

Edit - Grammar

Jeepned2 · 02-16-2008, 10:18 PM

Try being a raider.... Looks a lot bleaker then

DarkShadow02 · 02-17-2008, 12:10 AM

Grimlux you have some good points and suggestions, as stated in other threads our crowd control and pwr gens are great and very nice, but a "good grp" dont need us... i do get ppl thanking me for saving them, but they shouldnt have need saving, basicly we are great for covering for bad pulls and slow healers... where is our place in a "good grp". In our current state we are being phased out of the game.

Grimlux · 02-17-2008, 12:45 AM

Jeepned2 wrote:

Try being a raider.... Looks a lot bleaker then

Yah. Currently, why bring more then 1 Coercer to a raid? If we had DPS, we could bring all that and then some to raiding. We're like Tanks. You just need 1. If your raid party is well organized, you dont even really need 1 coercer.

02-16-2008, 06:31 PM	#1
Grimlux Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Seattle Posts: 465	I truly love this class and whether or not anything is broken per se'. I believe that giving complaints without a suggestion on what could be done to fix is just called whining...something seen throughout all of these forums. Charming - In groups that do not have a ton of Mellee dps I usually am able to keep enough concentration to use this as a secondary crowd control. With 5/5 enhance charming my mobs break left and right. With the new 50% reduction to charmed pet DPS, I sincerely believe giving Coercers a dire charm can make up for that. In EQ1 we all were used to even raid zones having a crappy mob, so that the enchanters could have a pet to support and pad what little dps they provided, but enourmous utility given. Hate - Our last spell received for this is at level 52. I think poor planning possibly was the reason for this. If levels stopped at 60 nobody will ever need more hate then this, but now that were 80 there is still no upgrade to our hate buff. A possible fix to this would be to look at all classes with targetable hate buffs and to review them. This could be done in a cumulative way as such (Level 24 - 5% <---an example number) 5% each 10 levels. 1 to 5 pts extra depending on grade. Its obvious hate% numbers just got way to high to upgrade us. Crowd Control - You dont see it to much pre-60 and "Most" of the unimportant mobs are able to be crowd controlled. Why bring a coercer to something important when the mobs are immune to 1/2 the spells. There are mobs immune to our main source of DPS (Sibyllant Line), this boggles me. One easy fix to this would be to make Mesmerize and crowd control effects require concentration. I know it sounds like another nerf, but if you could mezmerize anything, wouldnt that be worth it? Epic mobs would still be under the "only affects epic mobs for xx period of time" business. Stunning is a whole nother story. I cant imagine what needs to have a stun immunity in this game besides raid bosses. DEE-PEE-ESS - Since we have none, beginning and endgame one easy bandaid that can be made to the coercer class is to give them a proc damage buff for their main DD spell. (Look at it like the Inquisitor healing self buff) Whenever coercer casts their DD spell, it has a chance to proc more damage. You could even be clever and have it be a buff with a chance to cast an identical spell that you just cast on your target somewhat like the brigand ability. Being at the top of the DPS charts is not a coercer's goal, contributing to their raid or group is. The Coercer does need help, but its not all bad either. I have been in groups that have been really grateful for having a coercer. We are at this current moment power masters, healer buffers, ratonga/troll illusion givers! I love when I see people post constructively. Even if a developer never even looks at any of this its always nice to dream or feel that maybe there will be a part to play in the revolution of the coercer, that needs to happen. Edit - Grammar

02-17-2008, 12:10 AM	#3
DarkShadow02 Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 7	Grimlux you have some good points and suggestions, as stated in other threads our crowd control and pwr gens are great and very nice, but a "good grp" dont need us... i do get ppl thanking me for saving them, but they shouldnt have need saving, basicly we are great for covering for bad pulls and slow healers... where is our place in a "good grp". In our current state we are being phased out of the game. __________________

02-17-2008, 12:45 AM	#4
Grimlux Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Seattle Posts: 465	Jeepned2 wrote: Try being a raider.... Looks a lot bleaker then Yah. Currently, why bring more then 1 Coercer to a raid? If we had DPS, we could bring all that and then some to raiding. We're like Tanks. You just need 1. If your raid party is well organized, you dont even really need 1 coercer.

02-16-2008, 10:18 PM	#2
Jeepned2 Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 595	Try being a raider.... Looks a lot bleaker then