RoK Pvp gear: Idea for Tokens.

We_want_your_soul · 11-09-2007, 01:32 AM

On another board people were discussing how token pvp gear in it's current state is a bit out of wack. You can get raid comparable gear for little to no work.Anyways, the people were talking how at t8 pvp gear would cost 1000 tokens and upwards for weapons, jewelry, and class specific gear. Most of the people were hardcore in their stance saying that t8 gear SHOULD cost that much. I completely agree that with the current Farm-A-Bot system for gear that 1000 seems almost to nice for some of the gear. Anyways, a few people had some ideas- some which I thought were almost to good to be overlooked.

Originally Posted by AdamPerson

Just had an idea. Make the tokens dropped from a Master, General, Dreadnaught etc on different values. Like you turn in 100 Master tokens for something that would take 1000 Slayer tokens, 2000 Unranked tokens. That way it makes farming bots almost ridiculous compared to fighting someone who might actually kill you.-------------The more I read it the more I like it. Can work the value of each token around some till it makes sense but all in all killing a bot for the same token that a Master would drop is probably the dumbest thing ever thought of. It's as if you went and killed trash mobs in Loping Plains and getting the same drop as if you killed Pumpkin Headed Horseman.[/quote]

Originally posted by Beandip

Quote:

I'll agree with the title system being utter [I cannot control my vocabulary], but lets look at Adams idea this way. Yes I won't get much Master status or higher tokens, but you dont get much master status fame anyway as the title being somewhat of a rarity, fighting inside the general field of other pvp'rs being Destroyer-General you get rewarded more for doing so instead of farming suck [I cannot control my vocabulary] bots all day.

Please, discuss.

Amphibia · 11-09-2007, 02:36 AM

Please don't bring titles into this, it's bad enough as it is. I'll explain more, and I'm going to adress more than just your idea to make my opinion clear on this. That ok? I read that discussion. I mean no offence to anyone, but that thread was full of people from Nagafen's most successful raidguild. They're good at what they do, and deserve credit for that. But being exiled and dedicated to raiding, they really don't care much about PvP gear at all - they just don't want city folks to get it "easily". I know this, because I was exiled myself for 6 months. Of course an exiled raider will think that 1k tokens pr item is "reasonable", because that means that an average player will never get anywhere near a single item. I'll use myself as an example: After being exiled for a long time, I went back to Qeynos. I've been here now for 6 months approximately. I PvP'ed fairly intensly on 2 characters, and ended up on a total of ca. 950 tokens. I don't have track on either of these characters, and I'm a soloist. I don't think that is an unreasonable speed at all, I ended up with 6 pieces total and could probably have geared up a lot faster via raiding. I'm sure that a brigand or ranger can get a full set fairly fast, but you cant use that as a measure for how fast it is done. They have track and they're top tier DPS classes, it makes a huge difference. Gotto look at the big picture here, not all classes have these advantages - should it be impossible to get PvP gear then? RoK is going to be a huge area from what I hear, which means finding PvP might be hard without a tracker. So, I'm going to say something that has been said a thousand times before: This is a PvP server. Raiding for gear will always be a good alternative to PvP, but it shouldn't be more than that. PvP should be rewarded - but not only to scout classes. With me? Scouts usually have far higher titles than most, because they only fight when they feel like it due to track and evac. This suggestion will only make the already huge gap between scouts and non-scouts even larger. If this game is going to be fun for more than just the leetest of leet, I think that PvP gear needs to be remotely reachable for your average player. Not without effort, of course - but it should at least be imaginable, even for classes without track. I agree with the guy "Promise": The title system is so messed up that it would be insane to base any actual rewards on it. And it would just give high titles even more reasons to hide, use cheap tricks and never take chances.

We_want_your_soul · 11-09-2007, 03:45 AM

Titles are only a big deal to people who make them a big deal. I group with some pretty big fame [Removed for Content], but they said that if given this oppurtunity they'd jump on people like never before.Guess I'm just not seeing the whole 'Im not going to fight' arguement.That system pretty much negates killing bots as a means to gearing up.Edit: And that's all I personally care about.

Amphibia · 11-09-2007, 05:09 AM

We_want_your_soul wrote:

Titles are only a big deal to people who make them a big deal. I group with some pretty big fame [Removed for Content], but they said that if given this oppurtunity they'd jump on people like never before.Guess I'm just not seeing the whole 'Im not going to fight' arguement.

I don't think it is that simple, sadly.

We_want_your_soul · 11-09-2007, 05:57 AM

Yea, because you'll always have the guy who absolutely refuses to take a chance SMILEY

btw had some fun fights with your swashbuckler this morning in Nektulos Forest.I was the mean lil bruiser SMILEY

MaCloud1032 · 11-09-2007, 10:52 AM

You also cant have the prices set so high on tokens. Vox and Venekor would never see the gear due to the lower populations. In the year that EoF has been out i have managed to get 6pc of PvP gear. For my server thatis a lot. They also cant set it so diffrent servers drop diffrent rates of tokens as people would switch back and forth for them.

Unfortunatly i cant think of a way to balance it out where the hard core get the stuff as they should quicker but the casuals get it slower. Its bad enough seeing when you find someone who is more casual and under geared/skilled and they just get rolled.

Personlay i would like to see them do away with tokens and keep it more of a faction or even quest based for the gear. Quest says you must kill 150 people for gloves 300 for BP and so on. Or set it so if you have a few peices of the curent gear you can turn them in for upgrades with x number of kills/faction.

Armironhead · 11-09-2007, 11:25 AM

Darksavanna@Venekor wrote:

You also cant have the prices set so high on tokens. Vox and Venekor would never see the gear due to the lower populations. In the year that EoF has been out i have managed to get 6pc of PvP gear. For my server thatis a lot. They also cant set it so diffrent servers drop diffrent rates of tokens as people would switch back and forth for them.
Unfortunatly i cant think of a way to balance it out where the hard core get the stuff as they should quicker but the casuals get it slower. Its bad enough seeing when you find someone who is more casual and under geared/skilled and they just get rolled.
Personlay i would like to see them do away with tokens and keep it more of a faction or even quest based for the gear. Quest says you must kill 150 people for gloves 300 for BP and so on. Or set it so if you have a few peices of the curent gear you can turn them in for upgrades with x number of kills/faction.

In general , I love the token idea -- its one of the few reasons to actively hunt people -- after all killing folk just to kill them gets a little old. But I wish that token gear was scaled to population lvl. On Naggy I can see the point of requiring a high number of tokens for gear, but on vox, the number of tokens required to get gear is already prohibitively high. I'm sure if soe thought about it, scaling would be a realtively easy thing to do.

We_want_your_soul · 11-09-2007, 02:54 PM

Darksavanna@Venekor wrote:

You also cant have the prices set so high on tokens. Vox and Venekor would never see the gear due to the lower populations. In the year that EoF has been out i have managed to get 6pc of PvP gear. For my server thatis a lot. They also cant set it so diffrent servers drop diffrent rates of tokens as people would switch back and forth for them.
Unfortunatly i cant think of a way to balance it out where the hard core get the stuff as they should quicker but the casuals get it slower. Its bad enough seeing when you find someone who is more casual and under geared/skilled and they just get rolled.
Personlay i would like to see them do away with tokens and keep it more of a faction or even quest based for the gear. Quest says you must kill 150 people for gloves 300 for BP and so on. Or set it so if you have a few peices of the curent gear you can turn them in for upgrades with x number of kills/faction.

Well as it is at the moment, it's 1000 tokens per different items you can buy so I guess you'll be suffering unless they change it.

Rathious · 11-09-2007, 03:23 PM

Getting tokens on Vox with my guardian was so much fun I sold the character. I started him when the server came up and all the changes and stuff made it nearly impossible for me to get PvP gear. I had over 1700 kills and only 95 tokens and like 12k of royal ant guard faction. yeah that is right 1700 kills adn prolly only got credit for like 500 of them since the change was made it was truely depressing. so i made a xp disabled toon that was lvl 15 a dirge. He is lock sso i can gain the royal ant guard faction for the lvl 25 stuff. Anyway this is pretty tough stuff to do on a low population server I woud think they should maybe set the high population servers at 1000 and then take the population of that server adn break it into percentage values. for tokens 1%= 10tokens let's say that the population is 10,000 on the largest server. smallest server is 5,000. 5,000= 50% of the size. 10 tokens x 50= 500 tokens for said armor. once the values are set they leave them like that a couple months and then announce a change 1 a month or quarterly. This may improve some server's populations also. people may shift around and start to play on different server.

I think this would be a good way to balance out the server population also. Hey and who kknow you might even meet people you want to play with more so then others. you never know this would be very interesting to see what happens.

The other solution is just make all ppvp gear faction based. and why the heck couldn't they give exiles pvp gear. that would be something nice for them. read this post also it maybe of interest to you. http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=390970

Taldier · 11-09-2007, 05:34 PM

If soe is planning to have t8 pvp gear cost ridiculous amounts of tokens that is the worst idea ever. If someone is using bots to farm tokens is there any difference to them between 100 tokens and 1000 tokens other then extra time?

The problem with both the token system and the faction system is that both are based off similar faction farming that you do in pve. In pve there isn't a problem with encouraging the constant repetitive killing the same npcs over and over (other then it being boring as hell). The problem occurs when you bring this same idea to pvp and encourage the "farming" of real people. In order to get tokens or faction or whatever they either have to farm bots repeatedly, farm solo players using full groups, or farm groups using raids.

This kind of a system discourages any form of real competition because it encourages the constant repetition of whatever actions will get tokens with the least effort. Is discourages thinking of that character as a real person sitting behind the screen. It discourages even fights and good sportsmanship. It discourages fun.

When I look at the screen I'd rather see my opponents, not my next token. I'd rather die with my enemy's health at 1% than roll over them with a full group. I'd rather fight in a group v group where only one person is left standing rather than a massive zergfest.

SOE STOP PENALIZING PEOPLE FOR NOT WANTING TO ACT LIKE [Removed for Content] AND STOP REWARDING THOSE WHO DO. Is that so much to ask?

Fluffypaws · 11-14-2007, 10:59 AM

so if ur a solo pvper with a high title u will get big gank raids after you because your tokens have more value, the idea is fresh but it needs more thinking about

Necodem · 11-14-2007, 11:47 AM

First off pvp gear cost 300-400 tokens each not 1000 (it was set at 1000 only at the beginning of pvp beta).

The your idea is BS, it will make pvp even worse.

One good idea is already posted here : http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=391619

11-09-2007, 02:36 AM	#2
Amphibia Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 2,256	Please don't bring titles into this, it's bad enough as it is. I'll explain more, and I'm going to adress more than just your idea to make my opinion clear on this. That ok? I read that discussion. I mean no offence to anyone, but that thread was full of people from Nagafen's most successful raidguild. They're good at what they do, and deserve credit for that. But being exiled and dedicated to raiding, they really don't care much about PvP gear at all - they just don't want city folks to get it "easily". I know this, because I was exiled myself for 6 months. Of course an exiled raider will think that 1k tokens pr item is "reasonable", because that means that an average player will never get anywhere near a single item. I'll use myself as an example: After being exiled for a long time, I went back to Qeynos. I've been here now for 6 months approximately. I PvP'ed fairly intensly on 2 characters, and ended up on a total of ca. 950 tokens. I don't have track on either of these characters, and I'm a soloist. I don't think that is an unreasonable speed at all, I ended up with 6 pieces total and could probably have geared up a lot faster via raiding. I'm sure that a brigand or ranger can get a full set fairly fast, but you cant use that as a measure for how fast it is done. They have track and they're top tier DPS classes, it makes a huge difference. Gotto look at the big picture here, not all classes have these advantages - should it be impossible to get PvP gear then? RoK is going to be a huge area from what I hear, which means finding PvP might be hard without a tracker. So, I'm going to say something that has been said a thousand times before: This is a PvP server. Raiding for gear will always be a good alternative to PvP, but it shouldn't be more than that. PvP should be rewarded - but not only to scout classes. With me? Scouts usually have far higher titles than most, because they only fight when they feel like it due to track and evac. This suggestion will only make the already huge gap between scouts and non-scouts even larger. If this game is going to be fun for more than just the leetest of leet, I think that PvP gear needs to be remotely reachable for your average player. Not without effort, of course - but it should at least be imaginable, even for classes without track. I agree with the guy "Promise": The title system is so messed up that it would be insane to base any actual rewards on it. And it would just give high titles even more reasons to hide, use cheap tricks and never take chances. __________________

11-09-2007, 05:09 AM	#4
Amphibia Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 2,256	We_want_your_soul wrote: Titles are only a big deal to people who make them a big deal. I group with some pretty big fame [Removed for Content], but they said that if given this oppurtunity they'd jump on people like never before.Guess I'm just not seeing the whole 'Im not going to fight' arguement. I don't think it is that simple, sadly. __________________

11-09-2007, 05:57 AM	#5
We_want_your_soul Loremaster Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 194	Yea, because you'll always have the guy who absolutely refuses to take a chance btw had some fun fights with your swashbuckler this morning in Nektulos Forest.I was the mean lil bruiser

11-09-2007, 10:52 AM	#6
MaCloud1032 Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 655	You also cant have the prices set so high on tokens. Vox and Venekor would never see the gear due to the lower populations. In the year that EoF has been out i have managed to get 6pc of PvP gear. For my server thatis a lot. They also cant set it so diffrent servers drop diffrent rates of tokens as people would switch back and forth for them. Unfortunatly i cant think of a way to balance it out where the hard core get the stuff as they should quicker but the casuals get it slower. Its bad enough seeing when you find someone who is more casual and under geared/skilled and they just get rolled. Personlay i would like to see them do away with tokens and keep it more of a faction or even quest based for the gear. Quest says you must kill 150 people for gloves 300 for BP and so on. Or set it so if you have a few peices of the curent gear you can turn them in for upgrades with x number of kills/faction. __________________

11-09-2007, 11:25 AM	#7
Armironhead Server: Vox Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 1,194	Darksavanna@Venekor wrote: You also cant have the prices set so high on tokens. Vox and Venekor would never see the gear due to the lower populations. In the year that EoF has been out i have managed to get 6pc of PvP gear. For my server thatis a lot. They also cant set it so diffrent servers drop diffrent rates of tokens as people would switch back and forth for them. Unfortunatly i cant think of a way to balance it out where the hard core get the stuff as they should quicker but the casuals get it slower. Its bad enough seeing when you find someone who is more casual and under geared/skilled and they just get rolled. Personlay i would like to see them do away with tokens and keep it more of a faction or even quest based for the gear. Quest says you must kill 150 people for gloves 300 for BP and so on. Or set it so if you have a few peices of the curent gear you can turn them in for upgrades with x number of kills/faction. In general , I love the token idea -- its one of the few reasons to actively hunt people -- after all killing folk just to kill them gets a little old. But I wish that token gear was scaled to population lvl. On Naggy I can see the point of requiring a high number of tokens for gear, but on vox, the number of tokens required to get gear is already prohibitively high. I'm sure if soe thought about it, scaling would be a realtively easy thing to do. __________________

11-09-2007, 01:32 AM	#1
We_want_your_soul Loremaster Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 194	On another board people were discussing how token pvp gear in it's current state is a bit out of wack. You can get raid comparable gear for little to no work.Anyways, the people were talking how at t8 pvp gear would cost 1000 tokens and upwards for weapons, jewelry, and class specific gear. Most of the people were hardcore in their stance saying that t8 gear SHOULD cost that much. I completely agree that with the current Farm-A-Bot system for gear that 1000 seems almost to nice for some of the gear. Anyways, a few people had some ideas- some which I thought were almost to good to be overlooked. Originally Posted by AdamPerson Just had an idea. Make the tokens dropped from a Master, General, Dreadnaught etc on different values. Like you turn in 100 Master tokens for something that would take 1000 Slayer tokens, 2000 Unranked tokens. That way it makes farming bots almost ridiculous compared to fighting someone who might actually kill you.-------------The more I read it the more I like it. Can work the value of each token around some till it makes sense but all in all killing a bot for the same token that a Master would drop is probably the dumbest thing ever thought of. It's as if you went and killed trash mobs in Loping Plains and getting the same drop as if you killed Pumpkin Headed Horseman.[/quote] Originally posted by Beandip Quote: I'll agree with the title system being utter [I cannot control my vocabulary], but lets look at Adams idea this way. Yes I won't get much Master status or higher tokens, but you dont get much master status fame anyway as the title being somewhat of a rarity, fighting inside the general field of other pvp'rs being Destroyer-General you get rewarded more for doing so instead of farming suck [I cannot control my vocabulary] bots all day. Please, discuss.

11-09-2007, 03:45 AM	#3
We_want_your_soul Loremaster Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 194	Titles are only a big deal to people who make them a big deal. I group with some pretty big fame [Removed for Content], but they said that if given this oppurtunity they'd jump on people like never before.Guess I'm just not seeing the whole 'Im not going to fight' arguement.That system pretty much negates killing bots as a means to gearing up.Edit: And that's all I personally care about.

11-09-2007, 02:54 PM	#8
We_want_your_soul Loremaster Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 194	Darksavanna@Venekor wrote: You also cant have the prices set so high on tokens. Vox and Venekor would never see the gear due to the lower populations. In the year that EoF has been out i have managed to get 6pc of PvP gear. For my server thatis a lot. They also cant set it so diffrent servers drop diffrent rates of tokens as people would switch back and forth for them. Unfortunatly i cant think of a way to balance it out where the hard core get the stuff as they should quicker but the casuals get it slower. Its bad enough seeing when you find someone who is more casual and under geared/skilled and they just get rolled. Personlay i would like to see them do away with tokens and keep it more of a faction or even quest based for the gear. Quest says you must kill 150 people for gloves 300 for BP and so on. Or set it so if you have a few peices of the curent gear you can turn them in for upgrades with x number of kills/faction. Well as it is at the moment, it's 1000 tokens per different items you can buy so I guess you'll be suffering unless they change it.

11-09-2007, 03:23 PM	#9
Rathious Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 17	Getting tokens on Vox with my guardian was so much fun I sold the character. I started him when the server came up and all the changes and stuff made it nearly impossible for me to get PvP gear. I had over 1700 kills and only 95 tokens and like 12k of royal ant guard faction. yeah that is right 1700 kills adn prolly only got credit for like 500 of them since the change was made it was truely depressing. so i made a xp disabled toon that was lvl 15 a dirge. He is lock sso i can gain the royal ant guard faction for the lvl 25 stuff. Anyway this is pretty tough stuff to do on a low population server I woud think they should maybe set the high population servers at 1000 and then take the population of that server adn break it into percentage values. for tokens 1%= 10tokens let's say that the population is 10,000 on the largest server. smallest server is 5,000. 5,000= 50% of the size. 10 tokens x 50= 500 tokens for said armor. once the values are set they leave them like that a couple months and then announce a change 1 a month or quarterly. This may improve some server's populations also. people may shift around and start to play on different server. I think this would be a good way to balance out the server population also. Hey and who kknow you might even meet people you want to play with more so then others. you never know this would be very interesting to see what happens. The other solution is just make all ppvp gear faction based. and why the heck couldn't they give exiles pvp gear. that would be something nice for them. read this post also it maybe of interest to you. http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=390970 __________________

11-09-2007, 05:34 PM	#10
Taldier Server: Venekor Guild: Opus Dei Rank: Officer Loremaster Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 1,071	If soe is planning to have t8 pvp gear cost ridiculous amounts of tokens that is the worst idea ever. If someone is using bots to farm tokens is there any difference to them between 100 tokens and 1000 tokens other then extra time? The problem with both the token system and the faction system is that both are based off similar faction farming that you do in pve. In pve there isn't a problem with encouraging the constant repetitive killing the same npcs over and over (other then it being boring as hell). The problem occurs when you bring this same idea to pvp and encourage the "farming" of real people. In order to get tokens or faction or whatever they either have to farm bots repeatedly, farm solo players using full groups, or farm groups using raids. This kind of a system discourages any form of real competition because it encourages the constant repetition of whatever actions will get tokens with the least effort. Is discourages thinking of that character as a real person sitting behind the screen. It discourages even fights and good sportsmanship. It discourages fun. When I look at the screen I'd rather see my opponents, not my next token. I'd rather die with my enemy's health at 1% than roll over them with a full group. I'd rather fight in a group v group where only one person is left standing rather than a massive zergfest. SOE STOP PENALIZING PEOPLE FOR NOT WANTING TO ACT LIKE [Removed for Content] AND STOP REWARDING THOSE WHO DO. Is that so much to ask?

11-14-2007, 10:59 AM	#11
Fluffypaws Server: Venekor Loremaster Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Nagafen Posts: 126	so if ur a solo pvper with a high title u will get big gank raids after you because your tokens have more value, the idea is fresh but it needs more thinking about

11-14-2007, 11:47 AM	#12
Necodem General Join Date: May 2006 Location: France Posts: 325	First off pvp gear cost 300-400 tokens each not 1000 (it was set at 1000 only at the beginning of pvp beta). The your idea is BS, it will make pvp even worse. One good idea is already posted here : http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=391619