Is RoK time to pull the trigger on betraying?

schmee · 10-18-2007, 03:48 PM

Not looking for sympathy, making grudges or anything controversial, just facing reality.

I absolutely adore my Coercer, it was my first t8 toon, it remains the class I had the most fun levelling up - in a normal group it is still very fun to play. However, my t8 toons now rarely group, and generally only raid since I've gotten most of their non-raid stuff done months ago, and even my casual guild only really raids these days.

It's painful for me to log into my beloved Coercer because I know from the moment I log in that there's very little I can feel useful at given the only interesting options are raiding with him. For months I've bitten my lip, focused on my other toons in the hopes that something would come along and make the Coercer more valuable and/or interesting in raids, only to find that if anything it's gotten worse.

No longer deemed very useful in MT groups, my Coercer is relegated to being used in the one or two situations where we need a mez in a raid and lack a chanter altogether. And even then, I will log back onto another toon once that encounter is done, because there's nothing less fun that sitting in a raid being utterly useless with a class that you love.

Given the above, the fact that my guild is scout-heavy (thus benefitting greatly having an illusy around), and the fact that our t8 unique spell is not going to be a raid-useful ability (a secondary 16 sec charm? sigh), I am thinking that betraying for RoK is probably going to be the least painful time to do it, since there's going to be a whole new tier of masters to get, not to mention the inevitable t8 legendary gear one will acquire levelling to 80.

I just wanted to ask the Coercer community one last time before pulling the trigger if there's anything else I'm not considering before doing this. I know some of you - not far from my own feelings - are so devoted to the Coercer that you'll never betray, but for those of you who aren't quite so attached and understand the dilemma of logging into your favorite toon only to realize you feel sick that he can't really offer the guild much for raids I'd appreciate it if there's any advice you might have on anything I'm not considering before making this move.

Balrok · 10-18-2007, 04:10 PM

... Play what makes you happy. Personally, I don't get all the coercer sucks posts.

I play on the top raiding guild on Nagafen (PvP). We've cleared all of EoF and most of the Avatars.... pvp reasons for the remaining ones. Without question we have one of our Coercers with a Dirge in the MT group. Power regen, hate gain, coercsive healing and dps on the MT and Swash/Assassing in group (Typical with our Temp/Deflier only in MT group). If Druid is put in there, then I'm Linking a warlock or heavy scout out of group. In MT group, still around 1-2k dps. Extra coercer goes with fighters for dps buff and power regen.

solo play.... is there a better solo class? ... I question that. I've completely solo'ed 90% of claymore threw PoA and now have solo'ed SoD to Mistmoor Castle (Catacomb was really the only hard part here). Only a handful of classes can say that... and I am far from uber.

Not sure whatelse a class can do to be considered OK... Obviously we have some issues, but not at the point where I want to go illy.

Enjoy

Heartbrand · 10-19-2007, 03:00 AM

Mana Flow? Illusionists have. Hate Gain? Minimal to be honest. Coercive Healing? How do you do avatars and have mana ward and thought snap for the ditching fights and mana draining fights and also Coercive Healing? Power Regen? Illusionists have. Link? Yayyy 27% deaggro on fights that the main tank never loses aggro anyway and if he does thought snap. This doesn't make these separate abilities useless by any means, every bit helps obviously. Yes, one coercer per a raid is essential I would argue. You need that mana ward for Contested Mayong Wuoshi, Avatars etc., (or at least it's nice as heck) and thought snap is always great on mobs that charm or ditch and just in general if the tank goes down you can send it on the corpse to allow the raid a chance to regroup. Yes, channel is nice every 15-9 minutes. HOWEVER, these combined do not warrant the 1-2k DPS we can put out with max equip when a illusionist is parsing 3.5k.

Balrok · 10-19-2007, 09:00 AM

No Thought Snap or Mana Ward and we've never had an issue killing EoF bosses or contested.

I don't disagree with your post, just pointing out that we are not useless... as people hint at.

~~Maybe the real issue is that Illusionists shouldn't be posting Tier 1 DPS numbers~~. But I didn't just say that.

GastonPhoebus · 10-19-2007, 06:22 PM

@Schmee-

I feel your pain.

I am currently levelling a Brigand (66 atm) to raid with as our Guild does not have one that raids regularly. I, too, became utterly bored with my Coercer after hitting 70 and almost exclusively raiding KoS and EoF. It's just not the same class in a raid as it was levelling up, and I do not care for the raid Coercer as a class- even dps specced, which I tried and did pretty well at. The fact is the Coercer is two classes, one in a group and one in a raid. If you don't like one or the other it's kinda hard to feel good about loggin that toon in.

I have thought about betraying as well, but I have never really been attracted to the Illusionist class in itself so have not bothered. It would seem a compromise. I am just fortunate to love my scouts and I am having a ball on the Brigand. Now, of course, I just have to get my raid leader to truly accept that he won't have a second power regen in the OT group unless we find another Bard/Coercer/Illy. I, for one, am done with the raid Coercer unless my Guild needs me to spot play to cover.

As for grouping, let's just say that my Coercer will be tearing it up in RoK whenever I am not raiding with my Brig. Nothing more fun than shining in a group as a Coercer with folks that can appreciate the things a Coercer brings to the table.

Good luck! I say keep your Coercer and roll another toon! Lots of time to get to 70 (well, not really, but enough time) with a class your Guild can use.

Antryg Mistrose · 10-19-2007, 07:18 PM

I betrayed TOO coercer on my alt a couple of week back - charm is fun and the guild has 2 illusionist mains. Coercers solo way better than illusionists, and that was attractive for levelling in RoK.Raiding normally with 2 dirges (one is me), 2 illus, 2 troubs, and killed Wuoushi without a coercer. So my chances of actually getting to play my coercer on a raid are minimal .... you'd think I was trying to get my SK on a raid !

Turb · 10-22-2007, 05:28 AM

Antryg Mistrose wrote:

I betrayed TOO coercer on my alt a couple of week back - charm is fun and the guild has 2 illusionist mains. Coercers solo way better than illusionists, and that was attractive for levelling in RoK.

You assume SOE will leave any useful charmable mobs in T8 SMILEY

One thing that may be helpful for coercers is the promised dual AA specs coming in RoK. In theory you can have a solo/group spec, and a raid spec. So you can have one spec that your RL wants, and then whatever else you want to solo or group with while not raiding. There's also supposedly 40 more AA points to spend (20 in each tree), which if true would allow us to (for example) have the group heal crit bonus from STA while also running AGI-INT.

The same applies to illusionists of course.

I'm the opposite to Gaston... had a very well geard briggy and have put him aside to play a coercer. Just fancied a change of pace, something new for T8, and tbh I was fed up with all the asshunting to land the rear attacks SMILEY

10-18-2007, 03:48 PM	#1
schmee Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 87	Not looking for sympathy, making grudges or anything controversial, just facing reality. I absolutely adore my Coercer, it was my first t8 toon, it remains the class I had the most fun levelling up - in a normal group it is still very fun to play. However, my t8 toons now rarely group, and generally only raid since I've gotten most of their non-raid stuff done months ago, and even my casual guild only really raids these days. It's painful for me to log into my beloved Coercer because I know from the moment I log in that there's very little I can feel useful at given the only interesting options are raiding with him. For months I've bitten my lip, focused on my other toons in the hopes that something would come along and make the Coercer more valuable and/or interesting in raids, only to find that if anything it's gotten worse. No longer deemed very useful in MT groups, my Coercer is relegated to being used in the one or two situations where we need a mez in a raid and lack a chanter altogether. And even then, I will log back onto another toon once that encounter is done, because there's nothing less fun that sitting in a raid being utterly useless with a class that you love. Given the above, the fact that my guild is scout-heavy (thus benefitting greatly having an illusy around), and the fact that our t8 unique spell is not going to be a raid-useful ability (a secondary 16 sec charm? sigh), I am thinking that betraying for RoK is probably going to be the least painful time to do it, since there's going to be a whole new tier of masters to get, not to mention the inevitable t8 legendary gear one will acquire levelling to 80. I just wanted to ask the Coercer community one last time before pulling the trigger if there's anything else I'm not considering before doing this. I know some of you - not far from my own feelings - are so devoted to the Coercer that you'll never betray, but for those of you who aren't quite so attached and understand the dilemma of logging into your favorite toon only to realize you feel sick that he can't really offer the guild much for raids I'd appreciate it if there's any advice you might have on anything I'm not considering before making this move. __________________

10-18-2007, 04:10 PM	#2
Balrok Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 862	... Play what makes you happy. Personally, I don't get all the coercer sucks posts. I play on the top raiding guild on Nagafen (PvP). We've cleared all of EoF and most of the Avatars.... pvp reasons for the remaining ones. Without question we have one of our Coercers with a Dirge in the MT group. Power regen, hate gain, coercsive healing and dps on the MT and Swash/Assassing in group (Typical with our Temp/Deflier only in MT group). If Druid is put in there, then I'm Linking a warlock or heavy scout out of group. In MT group, still around 1-2k dps. Extra coercer goes with fighters for dps buff and power regen. solo play.... is there a better solo class? ... I question that. I've completely solo'ed 90% of claymore threw PoA and now have solo'ed SoD to Mistmoor Castle (Catacomb was really the only hard part here). Only a handful of classes can say that... and I am far from uber. Not sure whatelse a class can do to be considered OK... Obviously we have some issues, but not at the point where I want to go illy. Enjoy __________________ The PvP issues are known and will be worked on "when time allows". Olihin

10-19-2007, 09:00 AM	#4
Balrok Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 862	No Thought Snap or Mana Ward and we've never had an issue killing EoF bosses or contested. I don't disagree with your post, just pointing out that we are not useless... as people hint at. ~~Maybe the real issue is that Illusionists shouldn't be posting Tier 1 DPS numbers~~. But I didn't just say that. __________________ The PvP issues are known and will be worked on "when time allows". Olihin

10-19-2007, 07:18 PM	#6
Antryg Mistrose Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 893	I betrayed TOO coercer on my alt a couple of week back - charm is fun and the guild has 2 illusionist mains. Coercers solo way better than illusionists, and that was attractive for levelling in RoK.Raiding normally with 2 dirges (one is me), 2 illus, 2 troubs, and killed Wuoushi without a coercer. So my chances of actually getting to play my coercer on a raid are minimal .... you'd think I was trying to get my SK on a raid ! __________________ Illusionist//Paladin/Dirge/Templar Jeweler/Sage/Alchemist/Prov

10-22-2007, 05:28 AM	#7
Turb General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,117	Antryg Mistrose wrote: I betrayed TOO coercer on my alt a couple of week back - charm is fun and the guild has 2 illusionist mains. Coercers solo way better than illusionists, and that was attractive for levelling in RoK. You assume SOE will leave any useful charmable mobs in T8 One thing that may be helpful for coercers is the promised dual AA specs coming in RoK. In theory you can have a solo/group spec, and a raid spec. So you can have one spec that your RL wants, and then whatever else you want to solo or group with while not raiding. There's also supposedly 40 more AA points to spend (20 in each tree), which if true would allow us to (for example) have the group heal crit bonus from STA while also running AGI-INT. The same applies to illusionists of course. I'm the opposite to Gaston... had a very well geard briggy and have put him aside to play a coercer. Just fancied a change of pace, something new for T8, and tbh I was fed up with all the asshunting to land the rear attacks __________________

10-19-2007, 03:00 AM	#3
Heartbrand Champion Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 10	Mana Flow? Illusionists have. Hate Gain? Minimal to be honest. Coercive Healing? How do you do avatars and have mana ward and thought snap for the ditching fights and mana draining fights and also Coercive Healing? Power Regen? Illusionists have. Link? Yayyy 27% deaggro on fights that the main tank never loses aggro anyway and if he does thought snap. This doesn't make these separate abilities useless by any means, every bit helps obviously. Yes, one coercer per a raid is essential I would argue. You need that mana ward for Contested Mayong Wuoshi, Avatars etc., (or at least it's nice as heck) and thought snap is always great on mobs that charm or ditch and just in general if the tank goes down you can send it on the corpse to allow the raid a chance to regroup. Yes, channel is nice every 15-9 minutes. HOWEVER, these combined do not warrant the 1-2k DPS we can put out with max equip when a illusionist is parsing 3.5k.

10-19-2007, 06:22 PM	#5
GastonPhoebus Loremaster Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 80	@Schmee- I feel your pain. I am currently levelling a Brigand (66 atm) to raid with as our Guild does not have one that raids regularly. I, too, became utterly bored with my Coercer after hitting 70 and almost exclusively raiding KoS and EoF. It's just not the same class in a raid as it was levelling up, and I do not care for the raid Coercer as a class- even dps specced, which I tried and did pretty well at. The fact is the Coercer is two classes, one in a group and one in a raid. If you don't like one or the other it's kinda hard to feel good about loggin that toon in. I have thought about betraying as well, but I have never really been attracted to the Illusionist class in itself so have not bothered. It would seem a compromise. I am just fortunate to love my scouts and I am having a ball on the Brigand. Now, of course, I just have to get my raid leader to truly accept that he won't have a second power regen in the OT group unless we find another Bard/Coercer/Illy. I, for one, am done with the raid Coercer unless my Guild needs me to spot play to cover. As for grouping, let's just say that my Coercer will be tearing it up in RoK whenever I am not raiding with my Brig. Nothing more fun than shining in a group as a Coercer with folks that can appreciate the things a Coercer brings to the table. Good luck! I say keep your Coercer and roll another toon! Lots of time to get to 70 (well, not really, but enough time) with a class your Guild can use.