Important decision for me ... Is the "Support Paladin" a viable role in small groups?

[Cymikod]

Hi all,I'm hoping you can help me out with a decision.Because of RL constraints, I don't get much playtime.  When I play I am often solo or in a small group.I love my Paladin-70 (Huze) but don't play enough to be a good tank.  I don't know the instances well andcan't anticipate bad things coming up.So I need to play a non-tank role.Should I work to develop my Paladin for a support role, or will I be ignored when groups are formingbecause other classes will be preferred by people forming groups?In my situation should I just play my Templar-70 (Cybermik) and forget about being a fighter?Thank you.

[Herme]

I don't play a paladin, but as the usual group MT, I would group you.  Right now as things stand when I get a PU group together for a grind or zone walkthrough, I get my wife(DPS), a healer, then any other 3 players who want to do the same zone. 

[Fellindar]

You can still get groups but it will be harder - most groups if they have a choice will only want one tank and fill other spots with healers/dps/buffers.If your not confident tanking then try to maximise you damge, get armour that gives Str and Int bonuses ahead of stamina or agi. Also look for items that improve spell or healing damage/heal amount.As for an AA spec (and feel free to disagree with me people) go something likeKoSInt: 5 8 8 8+Str: 4 8 8orAgi: 4 8 8to max out your heal / dps capacityEoF:Healing and Support (25 points in each) to max your healing and let you cure trauma like a priest class does. (may not have enough points for that, im at work so i cant remember)That spec would give you fair damage and respectable healing powers in a group but as I said I may have got the EoF tree wrong.Hope that helps

[Falcon_426]

   

      As a paladin that plays a support role about half the time, I would have to say yes we can play that role and very well at that. Pick up groups usually aren't too picky about having more than one tank as long as they have heals and dps. In my usual group, I play a dps/backup healer. If I am dps, I am usually top of the parse or a close second on most fights. If I have to start healing, my dps will drop, but its better to keep the tank alive I have also been the only healer in several groups (mostly places with green cons, but once accidentally in OOB when the fury went LD) I usually parse around 700-800 dps in a casual group and, if we run into trouble, I have been able to hit 20-25k in heals. My KOS spec is str 448, sta 448, int 448, and my EOF is hero and wraths with the extra points in healing. If you want to maximize your heals, and don't plan on tanking at all, you could drop hero and go full healing line as well.

     

[Rocksthemic]

Even in a small group, with little time to get gear, you should STILL be able to tank content effectively. Legendary EoF gear will do you more than fine, and there is decent gear you can get from KoS still. Even T7 rare crafted armor can be all right until you get better. Paladins are some of the best, if not THE best group tanks in the game. I hate seeing any paladin limiting themselves as a "support class" when they could just as easily tank the [Removed for Content] thing and do better than many of the tanks they're supporting. That being said.... IF you wish to go all out in a support role, then spec for healing and cure in EoF... maybe int and wis line in KoS. You will nerf your dps quite a bit with this, however, so be prepared. I am not trying to be detrimental to you... but you will not be nearly as effective as you could be, nor will your group. Paladins are the most effective Small group tanks around. If you have a trio, nothing is more effective than a paladin at all at tanking.

[Prrasha]

My main character is a support-build Paladin (INT+WIS+Wraths+Healing).  I own a two-hander, but almost always keep the shield out for the extra stun and the extra avoidance for the MT.  Never been on a raid beyond the ones required for HQs.  Yes, I'm one of those "white knight" paladins that everyone complains about. When it works, it works wonderfully.  Being able to switch from moderate DPS to healing to tanking with, at most, a stance switch can be as group-saving as having a mezzer around (my two 70s are my pally and my illusionist... can you tell I like the multifaceted role?) Of course, this requires a group that understands your capabilities... at miniumum, you need a tank that won't panic when you pull aggro (prewarding + Amends + paladin AE damage means you'll be splitting tanking duties fairly often... main mob sticks to the MT, his friends stick to you), and a MH that knows you can't cure effectively and only have one group heal.  And you have to be flexible as well; I used to run Unrest with a particular L70 Guardian/L65 Templar duo; the MT insisted I put Amends on the templar to make sure there was no chance of her pulling aggro ever.  Worked great, even though I thought the obvious choice would have been Amends + Moderate on the two big DPSers. And you can still MT almost anything... I have no problems MT'ing Unrest with my build.  Your chief tanking abilities (Amends, Sigil, Amends, prewarding to help stabilize the pull, Amends) don't depend on AA build. And you can even get away with playing MH in lighter zones...

[Rocksthemic]

What you have to understand is this.... You're actually HURTING your groups effectiveness by "offtanking" things. Put it this way. If you as a paladin were healing a group, would it be easier if had to only heal one person, or if you had to worry about 2? In any group situation, it is best to heal only 1 person if at all possible. Splitting tanking duties does no service to your healers unless the mobs happen to be beating on your healer or a silkie or something. You "Support" the group by tanking effectively. If you keep aggro, thus making it easier on your healers to keep you alive, you can still throw out your own heals and wards, still do DPS, and tank at the same time. Now keep in mind this is my opinion... but any self respecting paladin should NEVER join a group with the intent of being "support". If you want someone who can support by dps and healing, get an inquisitor. If you want an offtank, get a monk or bruiser. IF there is another tank in the group that can tank better than you, by all means take a back seat and support them. Never let your ego get in the way of success... but you sell yourself short by specifically wanting to join a group as a support tank. You don't bring any buffs that truly rock *no 120 to heals doesn't count* no debuffs *sorry, debuffing divine dmg doesn't make you rock either* and only one group proc. Paladins are recognized by MANY people to be the best group tank out there. They keep aggro, can heal themselves in a pinch *which is truly awesome... in the proper trio you don't even need a healer, you just stand there and let mobs beat on you, spam a couple of taunts and let your amends target kill the mob* and can do some decent dps with the right spec and weapons, especially on encounters with more than one mob.

[Prrasha]

Rocksthemic wrote:

What you have to understand is this.... You're actually HURTING your groups effectiveness by "offtanking" things. Put it this way. If you as a paladin were healing a group, would it be easier if had to only heal one person, or if you had to worry about 2? In any group situation, it is best to heal only 1 person if at all possible. Splitting tanking duties does no service to your healers unless the mobs happen to be beating on your healer or a silkie or something. I suppose this is what I get for posting quickly before bowling league starts.  Part of my "offtanking" involves telling the MH "don't worry about me, just heal the MT."  If I can't keep myself standing if I pull a couple one-up-arrows, then I need to hang up my silly gull-winged hat.As for "what's easier to heal", I look at it the other way.  One character with 55-60% mitigation and 45-50% avoidance and 6000+ hit points only has half as much health as two such characters.And, better the mobs beat on me via Amends than forcing the Warlock to cut his DPS. You "Support" the group by tanking effectively. If you keep aggro, thus making it easier on your healers to keep you alive, you can still throw out your own heals and wards, still do DPS, and tank at the same time. The OP wasn't asking about tanking.  He wanted to know if he was useful in a non-tanking role.  Telling him he's better off playing his tank as a tank is... tautological. Now keep in mind this is my opinion... but any self respecting paladin should NEVER join a group with the intent of being "support". If you want someone who can support by dps and healing, get an inquisitor. If you want an offtank, get a monk or bruiser. In a perfect world, sure.  In the land of LFG-pickups, I'd rather take the paladin that's LFG now than sit around for another half-hour until a "more useful" character shows up. IF there is another tank in the group that can tank better than you, by all means take a back seat and support them. Never let your ego get in the way of success... but you sell yourself short by specifically wanting to join a group as a support tank. You don't bring any buffs that truly rock *no 120 to heals doesn't count* no debuffs *sorry, debuffing divine dmg doesn't make you rock either* and only one group proc.I still think the +34 to all skills and +2% to everything in the WIS line are reasonable buffs, even if I'm the only crusader left in the game who thinks so.  Look at the Wand of Crystallized Plasma or Vine-Wrapped Boots... mages drool over them because they proc a temporary +8% to damage or very-temporary +10%.  I think +2% all the time is better-than-decent, since it covers the whole group, including melee and healing. Paladins are recognized by MANY people to be the best group tank out there. They keep aggro, can heal themselves in a pinch *which is truly awesome... in the proper trio you don't even need a healer, you just stand there and let mobs beat on you, spam a couple of taunts and let your amends target kill the mob* and can do some decent dps with the right spec and weapons, especially on encounters with more than one mob.It's all true.  And yet not everyone needs to play that way.  Your opinion, my opinion.  De gustibus non est disputandum.The OP will probably find himself in the MT role more and more often as he learns the role by watching others do it.  Until then, a "man up, be a tank, or go home" attitude doesn't seem to serve him well.

[Rast]

I spent the first 50 levels of my paladin career as a group OT, our guild MT was a paladin as well.  When he left, I stepped up into that slot and held it until I left the guild a couple months back.  Now, I'm MTing raids and enjoying the hell out of the paladin (Vilucide fell at my feet for the first time last night ).

Will you be happy playing the support role?  Probably not, there are too many deficencies for the paladin to truely be a support class.  We have no real (unless you spec Wis, which I'd recommend against) group buffs, we have do real debuffs.  We can go DPS...  But unless you are tanking, you are really selling yourself short in what you can do and you will shortly know that you are and it will likely frustrate you.

[Drakehea]

Im the raid OT in my guild and im speced  kos  str 4 8 8 2 2    int 4 4 8 8   eof  wraith and heal    and i do good dps  and can tank all eof instance zones with ease.A Pally is a very versatile class and if played right can do well in any group

[knightofround]

There are only two zones where a support healer is actually viable. One would be unrest, the second would be SoF.Once they're fully mastered out, paladins can single heal most group instances. But then again, with a mastered out tank, you shouldn't need a healer at all as long as you've got stunners.You can do the support healer thing, but it's not going to be terribly useful. You'll dps as bad as healer, a healer will heal for more, and you're not tanking...so what exactly are you bringing again?Paladin heals are meant to supplement the class, not complement them.