Is it true about how the Brawler's Str AA line makes weapons useless?

SkyBee · 09-19-2007, 01:30 AM

Was gonna ask this in my other solo thread i created already but this question is just too crazy to not start a new thread.I was wandering why the heck a character would fight unarmed. Unarmed is the requirement for the Brawler Str AA line. I'm told in-game that, for a Brawler, weapons are pointless when the Str AA line is maxed out.OMG!!!. Come on now. LOLI'm try'n to choose between a Brigand and a Bruiser. If this is true, then man the Bruiser sounds to be fun.Seriously, can I get some posts validating one way or the other on this topic?

SkyBee · 09-19-2007, 01:46 AM

At around 28ish, the str line is maxed out lets say. Would fighting unarmed be better than any tier3 or tier4 fable weapon?

SkyBee · 09-19-2007, 02:09 AM

Is it worth the sacrifice in stats that the primary and secondary slots can provide?

Raidi Sovin'faile · 09-19-2007, 02:49 AM

Firstly, there's an edit button on your posts in the top right corner. It's customary to use that to update info on a post if no one has answered yet... no biggie, just a heads up in case you didn't know.Second, there's probably been about two dozen posts on this issue already. Doing a Search with "Str AA" targetted in the Bruiser forum nets a bunch of posts that already talk about this.As for answering the actual question...Unarmed damage at it's base is treated like having a Two Handed Storebought Quality weapon. Doesn't sound like much does it?Well, the Strength line basically doubles the amount of attacks you do with it. So despite being fairly low damage as a twohander, it's amazing damage when you effectively (97%) hit twice with it per swing.You also gain a +20 DPS modifier. Which effectively means your unarmed becomes ~20% more damage on top of that.Lastly, your unarmed damage goes up each time you level. This means with your 16 AAs into the Strength line (4 x Strength, 4x crushing debuff, 8x unarmed double attack) you will constantly gain a better weapon as you level.The levels you gain a new weapon tier... like 22 or 32 for the Mastercrafted weapons, those purchased/crafted weapons will equal or slightly edge out your unarmed damage with Str line, especially if you have a damage adornment on it.However, as soon as you hit 23 (or 33) your unarmed catches up. Then 24, 25, 26, etc.. your unarmed is superior as it grows in damage... while the weapon sits there with stagnant damage rating until you hit the next tier.Essentially, with 16 points into the Strength line you will have effectively higher damaging FREE weapons for 90%+ of your game time (based on mastercrafted/legendary weapons). Sure a Fabled weapon will kick it's butt in damage for a few more levels, but eventually you'll grow out of that too. And Fabled Brawler weapons are very few and far between (only saw one baton after leveling all 9 characters of mine through to 50s).So for leveling, Strength AA kicks [Removed for Content]. It saves you money for other things, while simultaneously giving you more Damage over the course of most of your levels.Weapons are good for adornments that give things like Lifetaps and Power Procs... but until you reach the point where you won't be leveling anymore and will be upgrading your weapons to Fabled levels, or high Legendary (such as lvl 70 Legendary weapons from high end instances), your unarmed will probably be a net higher benefit.And yes... damage > stats. Stats you can make up or get in nearly EVERY other aspect of the game (other gear, buffs, traits, group member buffs, potions, etc). Straight up weapon damage (which makes up 35-50% of your overall damage) can ONLY be increased by having a better weapon.

Wy · 09-19-2007, 03:19 PM

I hear that that pans out once you head to endgame at the highest levels though? I mean, that seems natural, that 'free weapons' fall short of the 'epic' weaponry you can get your hands on endgame, so is the str line only really good for leveling purposes? Edit: Ah nevermind, saw that part. thanks, was helpful to me too!

SkyBee · 09-19-2007, 11:34 PM

Kaisoku, get over it. I bet folk will ask this and other questions that have been asked again and again. I wasn't look'n for elaborate info instead just a response. See, even Wyxt found it useful.Ya can't necessarily make up the stats ya lose from fight'n unarmed. Either the stats are there in the weapon slots or they are not on the slot. This is assuming that ya don't get extra stats on other gear, etc as a bonus to fight'n unarmed.I thought it was very kool the entire unarmed thing be'n as powerful and better as a good weapon prior end game. Plus, ya don't have to pay the rares or service or play time to obtain new weapons which is very kool. I would say both of these benefits would be quite more advantageous than the stats a weapon may provide for a fella not to the end game; just figured i'd throw in the question.Very neat. Play'n a Bruiser is interesting I bet.Thanks for reading and taking the time to post.

Raidi Sovin'faile · 09-20-2007, 11:30 AM

SkyBee wrote:

Kaisoku, get over it. I bet folk will ask this and other questions that have been asked again and again. I wasn't look'n for elaborate info instead just a response. You may have misunderstood the tone of the first parts of my post. I wasn't trying to be demeaning, rather informative. What tends to happen with these posts is one person (like myself) will answer with a long detailed response, and most other people have already said something in a different thread and the discussion tends to just drop.Essentially, you might want to also check out the other threads by doing a search since there's been a lot of discussion about it. Not everyone will repeat their points of view every time the thread comes up.See, even Wyxt found it useful.Yep, hence why I still actually posted. I kinda follow the "give a man some food while you teach them how to fish"... habit I picked up working in the service industry I guess.Ya can't necessarily make up the stats ya lose from fight'n unarmed. Either the stats are there in the weapon slots or they are not on the slot. This is assuming that ya don't get extra stats on other gear, etc as a bonus to fight'n unarmed.You don't get anything extra on other gear usually from being unarmed. I can think of only two high level semi-rare items that give some minor bonus while unarmed.However, this game has diminishing returns on stats (other than hp/pow). So if you are already fairly high in Str/Agi/Sta and whatnot, then you'll not get much more from the weapons alone. Not to mention, it's better to push for that cap with other things, even temporary items like potions, instead of giving up straight up Weapon Damage. There is absolutely nothing that increases the base damage your weapon does after all other buffs (and I mean on top of the +DPS buff).As always... it's a balance and depends on some of the rest of your gear. But for leveling, Str AA Unarmed has a lot going for it.I thought it was very kool the entire unarmed thing be'n as powerful and better as a good weapon prior end game. Plus, ya don't have to pay the rares or service or play time to obtain new weapons which is very kool. I would say both of these benefits would be quite more advantageous than the stats a weapon may provide for a fella not to the end game; just figured i'd throw in the question.Yep... although it almost feels like cheating. And in the end game, once you have strong weapons, the Strength line basically becomes useless... so there's an indirect cost there. Str line = free weapons for leveling, but 1 less AA line for end game choice. Something of a sticking point for a few folks out there.Very neat. Play'n a Bruiser is interesting I bet.Thanks for reading and taking the time to post.No problem.. and despite the difficulties of playing a Bruiser in end game content, I still like the overall theme behind them. It really feels like a class that has a bunch of "tricks up his sleeve" type.

ganjookie · 09-20-2007, 10:27 PM

/sighSkybee. You are asking a question that has been asked at least 10x in the past 2 months...

Celiondra · 09-21-2007, 12:58 PM

Kithian@Permafrost wrote:

/sighSkybee. You are asking a question that has been asked at least 10x in the past 2 months...

You know I see alot of new people come and ask questions and get told how many times the questions have been asked in the past 2 months.Let me propose a solution to the problem, though I doubt any of you will take up the challenge. How about instead of answering the same questions 100x you all do an UP TO DATE FAQ which addresses all the questions. It would save the annoyance of people asking the same questions over and over. It would also make the Bruiser a more newb friendly forum.

tt66 · 09-21-2007, 01:36 PM

A new FAQ? Not a bad idea, if we could actually get it stickied. Not sure the mods come down here much, tho.Complete Bruiser AA FAQAlternatively, how about this :KOS : 4/4/8/6/2 STR/INT until lvl 70 then go WIS/INTEOF : Max out Knockout line, self-heal until lvl 70, then go 24 KO, 21 Attn, 5 self-heal.

ganjookie · 09-21-2007, 08:27 PM

Celiondra wrote:

Kithian@Permafrost wrote:
/sighSkybee. You are asking a question that has been asked at least 10x in the past 2 months...
You know I see alot of new people come and ask questions and get told how many times the questions have been asked in the past 2 months.Let me propose a solution to the problem, though I doubt any of you will take up the challenge. How about instead of answering the same questions 100x you all do an UP TO DATE FAQ which addresses all the questions. It would save the annoyance of people asking the same questions over and over. It would also make the Bruiser a more newb friendly forum.

Go for it! I mean you might as well make a challenege you are willing do yourself! :p

09-19-2007, 03:19 PM	#5
Wy General Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 38	I hear that that pans out once you head to endgame at the highest levels though? I mean, that seems natural, that 'free weapons' fall short of the 'epic' weaponry you can get your hands on endgame, so is the str line only really good for leveling purposes? Edit: Ah nevermind, saw that part. thanks, was helpful to me too! __________________ Wyxt - Lucan Dlere - Level 50 Bruiser Wyckst - Lucan Dlere - Level 18 Shadowknight

09-20-2007, 11:30 AM	#7
Raidi Sovin'faile Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,320	SkyBee wrote: Kaisoku, get over it. I bet folk will ask this and other questions that have been asked again and again. I wasn't look'n for elaborate info instead just a response. You may have misunderstood the tone of the first parts of my post. I wasn't trying to be demeaning, rather informative. What tends to happen with these posts is one person (like myself) will answer with a long detailed response, and most other people have already said something in a different thread and the discussion tends to just drop.Essentially, you might want to also check out the other threads by doing a search since there's been a lot of discussion about it. Not everyone will repeat their points of view every time the thread comes up.See, even Wyxt found it useful.Yep, hence why I still actually posted. I kinda follow the "give a man some food while you teach them how to fish"... habit I picked up working in the service industry I guess.Ya can't necessarily make up the stats ya lose from fight'n unarmed. Either the stats are there in the weapon slots or they are not on the slot. This is assuming that ya don't get extra stats on other gear, etc as a bonus to fight'n unarmed.You don't get anything extra on other gear usually from being unarmed. I can think of only two high level semi-rare items that give some minor bonus while unarmed.However, this game has diminishing returns on stats (other than hp/pow). So if you are already fairly high in Str/Agi/Sta and whatnot, then you'll not get much more from the weapons alone. Not to mention, it's better to push for that cap with other things, even temporary items like potions, instead of giving up straight up Weapon Damage. There is absolutely nothing that increases the base damage your weapon does after all other buffs (and I mean on top of the +DPS buff).As always... it's a balance and depends on some of the rest of your gear. But for leveling, Str AA Unarmed has a lot going for it.I thought it was very kool the entire unarmed thing be'n as powerful and better as a good weapon prior end game. Plus, ya don't have to pay the rares or service or play time to obtain new weapons which is very kool. I would say both of these benefits would be quite more advantageous than the stats a weapon may provide for a fella not to the end game; just figured i'd throw in the question.Yep... although it almost feels like cheating. And in the end game, once you have strong weapons, the Strength line basically becomes useless... so there's an indirect cost there. Str line = free weapons for leveling, but 1 less AA line for end game choice. Something of a sticking point for a few folks out there.Very neat. Play'n a Bruiser is interesting I bet.Thanks for reading and taking the time to post.No problem.. and despite the difficulties of playing a Bruiser in end game content, I still like the overall theme behind them. It really feels like a class that has a bunch of "tricks up his sleeve" type.

09-20-2007, 10:27 PM	#8
ganjookie Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: SoCal Posts: 2,201	/sighSkybee. You are asking a question that has been asked at least 10x in the past 2 months... __________________

09-21-2007, 12:58 PM	#9
Celiondra Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 43	Kithian@Permafrost wrote: /sighSkybee. You are asking a question that has been asked at least 10x in the past 2 months... You know I see alot of new people come and ask questions and get told how many times the questions have been asked in the past 2 months.Let me propose a solution to the problem, though I doubt any of you will take up the challenge. How about instead of answering the same questions 100x you all do an UP TO DATE FAQ which addresses all the questions. It would save the annoyance of people asking the same questions over and over. It would also make the Bruiser a more newb friendly forum. __________________

09-21-2007, 08:27 PM	#11
ganjookie Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: SoCal Posts: 2,201	Celiondra wrote: Kithian@Permafrost wrote: /sighSkybee. You are asking a question that has been asked at least 10x in the past 2 months... You know I see alot of new people come and ask questions and get told how many times the questions have been asked in the past 2 months.Let me propose a solution to the problem, though I doubt any of you will take up the challenge. How about instead of answering the same questions 100x you all do an UP TO DATE FAQ which addresses all the questions. It would save the annoyance of people asking the same questions over and over. It would also make the Bruiser a more newb friendly forum. Go for it! I mean you might as well make a challenege you are willing do yourself! :p __________________

09-19-2007, 01:30 AM	#1
SkyBee Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 148	Was gonna ask this in my other solo thread i created already but this question is just too crazy to not start a new thread.I was wandering why the heck a character would fight unarmed. Unarmed is the requirement for the Brawler Str AA line. I'm told in-game that, for a Brawler, weapons are pointless when the Str AA line is maxed out.OMG!!!. Come on now. LOLI'm try'n to choose between a Brigand and a Bruiser. If this is true, then man the Bruiser sounds to be fun.Seriously, can I get some posts validating one way or the other on this topic?

09-19-2007, 01:46 AM	#2
SkyBee Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 148	At around 28ish, the str line is maxed out lets say. Would fighting unarmed be better than any tier3 or tier4 fable weapon?

09-19-2007, 02:09 AM	#3
SkyBee Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 148	Is it worth the sacrifice in stats that the primary and secondary slots can provide?

09-19-2007, 02:49 AM	#4
Raidi Sovin'faile Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,320	Firstly, there's an edit button on your posts in the top right corner. It's customary to use that to update info on a post if no one has answered yet... no biggie, just a heads up in case you didn't know.Second, there's probably been about two dozen posts on this issue already. Doing a Search with "Str AA" targetted in the Bruiser forum nets a bunch of posts that already talk about this.As for answering the actual question...Unarmed damage at it's base is treated like having a Two Handed Storebought Quality weapon. Doesn't sound like much does it?Well, the Strength line basically doubles the amount of attacks you do with it. So despite being fairly low damage as a twohander, it's amazing damage when you effectively (97%) hit twice with it per swing.You also gain a +20 DPS modifier. Which effectively means your unarmed becomes ~20% more damage on top of that.Lastly, your unarmed damage goes up each time you level. This means with your 16 AAs into the Strength line (4 x Strength, 4x crushing debuff, 8x unarmed double attack) you will constantly gain a better weapon as you level.The levels you gain a new weapon tier... like 22 or 32 for the Mastercrafted weapons, those purchased/crafted weapons will equal or slightly edge out your unarmed damage with Str line, especially if you have a damage adornment on it.However, as soon as you hit 23 (or 33) your unarmed catches up. Then 24, 25, 26, etc.. your unarmed is superior as it grows in damage... while the weapon sits there with stagnant damage rating until you hit the next tier.Essentially, with 16 points into the Strength line you will have effectively higher damaging FREE weapons for 90%+ of your game time (based on mastercrafted/legendary weapons). Sure a Fabled weapon will kick it's butt in damage for a few more levels, but eventually you'll grow out of that too. And Fabled Brawler weapons are very few and far between (only saw one baton after leveling all 9 characters of mine through to 50s).So for leveling, Strength AA kicks [Removed for Content]. It saves you money for other things, while simultaneously giving you more Damage over the course of most of your levels.Weapons are good for adornments that give things like Lifetaps and Power Procs... but until you reach the point where you won't be leveling anymore and will be upgrading your weapons to Fabled levels, or high Legendary (such as lvl 70 Legendary weapons from high end instances), your unarmed will probably be a net higher benefit.And yes... damage > stats. Stats you can make up or get in nearly EVERY other aspect of the game (other gear, buffs, traits, group member buffs, potions, etc). Straight up weapon damage (which makes up 35-50% of your overall damage) can ONLY be increased by having a better weapon.

09-19-2007, 11:34 PM	#6
SkyBee Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 148	Kaisoku, get over it. I bet folk will ask this and other questions that have been asked again and again. I wasn't look'n for elaborate info instead just a response. See, even Wyxt found it useful.Ya can't necessarily make up the stats ya lose from fight'n unarmed. Either the stats are there in the weapon slots or they are not on the slot. This is assuming that ya don't get extra stats on other gear, etc as a bonus to fight'n unarmed.I thought it was very kool the entire unarmed thing be'n as powerful and better as a good weapon prior end game. Plus, ya don't have to pay the rares or service or play time to obtain new weapons which is very kool. I would say both of these benefits would be quite more advantageous than the stats a weapon may provide for a fella not to the end game; just figured i'd throw in the question.Very neat. Play'n a Bruiser is interesting I bet.Thanks for reading and taking the time to post.

09-21-2007, 01:36 PM	#10
tt66 Loremaster Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 323	A new FAQ? Not a bad idea, if we could actually get it stickied. Not sure the mods come down here much, tho.Complete Bruiser AA FAQAlternatively, how about this :KOS : 4/4/8/6/2 STR/INT until lvl 70 then go WIS/INTEOF : Max out Knockout line, self-heal until lvl 70, then go 24 KO, 21 Attn, 5 self-heal.