Bow's reworked...

Veyor · 09-07-2007, 03:55 PM

This was in the Sept. 4th Test patch notes..

Bows have been slightly re-worked due to proccing other weapons.

Anyone have any info on this, please?

Thanks in advance

Runewind · 09-07-2007, 06:42 PM

Nope. I was curious too. Anyone know what this means? This is a very vague patch note.

Gareorn · 09-07-2007, 07:19 PM

The last time words like "slightly re-worked" and "bows" were used in the same patch note, the damage rating on bows were significantly reduced.

Jacien · 09-07-2007, 07:19 PM

Bows used to have 3 chances to proc.The bow itself, then the primary and secondary weapons.It's a bug that's been in game too long. Now they are fixing it.Bows now have only their own (1) chance to proc.

Vatec · 09-07-2007, 07:40 PM

Pedigru@Venekor wrote:

Bows used to have 3 chances to proc.The bow itself, then the primary and secondary weapons.It's a bug that's been in game too long. Now they are fixing it.Bows now have only their own (1) chance to proc.

Not exactly a "bug." More of an "oversight" on the part of the devs who created proccing melee weapons, since most of them say they'll proc on a successful "attack" rather than a successful "melee attack."In any case, the players most affected (Rangers) are used to being nerfed over and over and over, so it's no big deal. We'll all agree that it was a bad mechanic, that it never should have worked that way, and that we are so overpowered we need to be nerfed even more....After all, we bring so much group and raid utility to the table. There's our group invisibility, our great set of debuffs, our ability to create portals to half the zones in Norrath, our absolutely spectacular buffs, and ... oh, wait. Never mind....At least we've still got Pathfinding!

Cocytus · 09-07-2007, 08:09 PM

Bug/oversight....While the change makes sense, I don't see why it was needed. I'm not a ranger though and I won't complain too much, I'm still happy with the appearance slots SMILEY

Raidi Sovin'faile · 09-07-2007, 08:25 PM

What's funny is that when they nerfed weapons back in the day (so that they could no longer proc the ranged weapon's procs on melee weapon attacks), people asked "Well what about bows"? No response.Now, something like 6 months to a year later... they finally decide to fix bows to be the same way.You know... if they had changed Bows to work this way back in the day when they changed Melee weapons to no longer proc ranged weapon procs... I think no one would have minded as much. Instead, we got a whole bunch of Melee weapon users going "[Removed for Content]?" back then, and now Bow users going "[Removed for Content]?" now.They really need to organize their changes a bit better.

kartikeya · 09-08-2007, 01:20 AM

Actually, no, this was nerfed on the bows for MOST weapons during that change as well. It was part of about three patches that decimated the (at the time overpowered) ranger DPS.

What this change is doing is removing the chance to proc from the few melee weapons that were overlooked, most prominent of these being the Qeynos Kilij. Personally? I prefer this being removed. I figured they would do it eventually, even though it was implied for ages that the procs on range still working were intentional.

On the other hand, I will still, quite loudly, demand that bows be added to the prismatic quest lines. There is, with this change, no real benefit at /all/ to rangers in doing these quests, beyond simply being able to show something pretty hanging from your belt. The stats can be matched by other, much easier to get weapons, and the stats are all that really affect us now. Shiny jewelry. Yay.

Bow rewards, please.

thalus · 09-09-2007, 01:28 AM

Lets just hope they dont remove the strings and call that a fix /votes for Bow reward

BigChiefJJ · 09-10-2007, 02:09 PM

What I would really like to see is more, well ok some gear that would proc from ranged CA's or bow attacks. I will admit that the proc from my dagger going off when I shot an arrow is pretty illogical, but a proc from a piece of jewelry, or armor going off on a ranged attach should not be that far fetched. Most pieces of jewelry that we see drop on raids have a chance to proc on a hostile spell - how is this much different than a ranged attack?

It would be nice to see some Ranger love, an earring or ring with some + ranged critical, + ranged, and a proc that would work from a ranged weapon or just one of the three.

EvilIguana9 · 09-10-2007, 02:25 PM

SOE needs to decide for each item where, from a lore standpoint, the enchantment is getting applied. A ring with a damage proc carries a spell enchantment that imbues the user of the ring with some type of power. Most weapons, on the other hand, were imbued at their creation with a proc that effects only the weapon in question. That distinction determines whether a weapon's effect should only go off when that weapon itself strikes the target or when any weapon does so. Personally, I think this change is the right way to go. The problem is that some weapon procs are extra valuable to some classes, throwing off the balance of weapon design. Rangers have an interesting problem in that they really don't use their melee weapons very much. The same is true of mages, and they got weapons that solved that by having procs that worked off their spells. It makes sense to me that rangers would get some items specifically designed for them that work the same way. Otherwise their melee weapon slots are almost superfluous. I guess the key here is for the items to work as they are designed so they can be properly balanced.

09-07-2007, 03:55 PM	#1
Veyor Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 19	This was in the Sept. 4th Test patch notes.. Bows have been slightly re-worked due to proccing other weapons. Anyone have any info on this, please? Thanks in advance __________________ Creghar Seeker of the ALL MIGHTY BEER! Brigand of Permafrost

09-07-2007, 06:42 PM	#2
Runewind Fansite Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 341	Nope. I was curious too. Anyone know what this means? This is a very vague patch note. __________________

09-07-2007, 07:19 PM	#3
Gareorn Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,144	The last time words like "slightly re-worked" and "bows" were used in the same patch note, the damage rating on bows were significantly reduced. __________________ Leader of the vast right-wing conspiricy... Hiding from the world's smartest woman in a bunker under a Hooter's restaurant.

09-07-2007, 07:40 PM	#5
Vatec Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 473	Pedigru@Venekor wrote: Bows used to have 3 chances to proc.The bow itself, then the primary and secondary weapons.It's a bug that's been in game too long. Now they are fixing it.Bows now have only their own (1) chance to proc. Not exactly a "bug." More of an "oversight" on the part of the devs who created proccing melee weapons, since most of them say they'll proc on a successful "attack" rather than a successful "melee attack."In any case, the players most affected (Rangers) are used to being nerfed over and over and over, so it's no big deal. We'll all agree that it was a bad mechanic, that it never should have worked that way, and that we are so overpowered we need to be nerfed even more....After all, we bring so much group and raid utility to the table. There's our group invisibility, our great set of debuffs, our ability to create portals to half the zones in Norrath, our absolutely spectacular buffs, and ... oh, wait. Never mind....At least we've still got Pathfinding! __________________ 54+ Ranger 28+ Berserker, 28+ Troubador, 26+ Fury, 25+ Templar, 25+ Bruiser, 22+ Inquisitor 21+ Dirge, 20+ Paladin, 15+ Conjuror, 14+ Assassin, 14+ Defiler, 13+ Shadowknight and a few others 90 Provisioner, 41+ Woodworker, 34+ Carpenter 41+ Tailor, 30+ Armorer, 29+ Weaponsmith 70+ Jeweler, 51+ Alchemist, 29+ Sage Living and dying on OASIS since 11/09/04

09-08-2007, 01:20 AM	#8
kartikeya Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 387	Actually, no, this was nerfed on the bows for MOST weapons during that change as well. It was part of about three patches that decimated the (at the time overpowered) ranger DPS. What this change is doing is removing the chance to proc from the few melee weapons that were overlooked, most prominent of these being the Qeynos Kilij. Personally? I prefer this being removed. I figured they would do it eventually, even though it was implied for ages that the procs on range still working were intentional. On the other hand, I will still, quite loudly, demand that bows be added to the prismatic quest lines. There is, with this change, no real benefit at /all/ to rangers in doing these quests, beyond simply being able to show something pretty hanging from your belt. The stats can be matched by other, much easier to get weapons, and the stats are all that really affect us now. Shiny jewelry. Yay. Bow rewards, please. __________________

09-07-2007, 07:19 PM	#4
Jacien Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 157	Bows used to have 3 chances to proc.The bow itself, then the primary and secondary weapons.It's a bug that's been in game too long. Now they are fixing it.Bows now have only their own (1) chance to proc.

09-07-2007, 08:09 PM	#6
Cocytus Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 1,908	Bug/oversight....While the change makes sense, I don't see why it was needed. I'm not a ranger though and I won't complain too much, I'm still happy with the appearance slots

09-07-2007, 08:25 PM	#7
Raidi Sovin'faile Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,320	What's funny is that when they nerfed weapons back in the day (so that they could no longer proc the ranged weapon's procs on melee weapon attacks), people asked "Well what about bows"? No response.Now, something like 6 months to a year later... they finally decide to fix bows to be the same way.You know... if they had changed Bows to work this way back in the day when they changed Melee weapons to no longer proc ranged weapon procs... I think no one would have minded as much. Instead, we got a whole bunch of Melee weapon users going "[Removed for Content]?" back then, and now Bow users going "[Removed for Content]?" now.They really need to organize their changes a bit better.

09-09-2007, 01:28 AM	#9
thalus Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 28	Lets just hope they dont remove the strings and call that a fix /votes for Bow reward

09-10-2007, 02:09 PM	#10
BigChiefJJ Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 415	What I would really like to see is more, well ok some gear that would proc from ranged CA's or bow attacks. I will admit that the proc from my dagger going off when I shot an arrow is pretty illogical, but a proc from a piece of jewelry, or armor going off on a ranged attach should not be that far fetched. Most pieces of jewelry that we see drop on raids have a chance to proc on a hostile spell - how is this much different than a ranged attack? It would be nice to see some Ranger love, an earring or ring with some + ranged critical, + ranged, and a proc that would work from a ranged weapon or just one of the three.

09-10-2007, 02:25 PM	#11
EvilIguana9 General Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 477	SOE needs to decide for each item where, from a lore standpoint, the enchantment is getting applied. A ring with a damage proc carries a spell enchantment that imbues the user of the ring with some type of power. Most weapons, on the other hand, were imbued at their creation with a proc that effects only the weapon in question. That distinction determines whether a weapon's effect should only go off when that weapon itself strikes the target or when any weapon does so. Personally, I think this change is the right way to go. The problem is that some weapon procs are extra valuable to some classes, throwing off the balance of weapon design. Rangers have an interesting problem in that they really don't use their melee weapons very much. The same is true of mages, and they got weapons that solved that by having procs that worked off their spells. It makes sense to me that rangers would get some items specifically designed for them that work the same way. Otherwise their melee weapon slots are almost superfluous. I guess the key here is for the items to work as they are designed so they can be properly balanced.