Maybe the Queen of Neriak was right

Ilavatar · 08-22-2007, 06:44 PM

Maybe the Queen of Neriak was right to assassinate the King. He had just caused a hugely unsucessful war that not only failed in Faydwer but also caused the greedy and imperilistic Halfings to invade Neriak.

History is full of examples where assassination was used to remove despotic and/or disasterous leaders and where the assassins turned out to be much better for the realm.

All Hail Queen, er, whatever her name is!

Cusashorn · 08-22-2007, 06:50 PM

The Dark Elves have been backstabbing each other, both figuratively, and litterally, ever since they were first created. The Queen planned on Offing King Thex since well back before EQlive's time period. This war just gave her the best chance to do so.

Siogai · 08-22-2007, 07:22 PM

Current Queen Cristanos and former King Thex are not the originals.Dunno how long those two were together, but its not the original Tearis (sp?) and Cristanos... didn't someone post something official about this recently?

MysticTrunks01 · 08-22-2007, 07:24 PM

I was of the understanding that it is infact the original king and queen living longer than the rest of the Tier'Dal peoples.

Cusashorn · 08-22-2007, 07:30 PM

Queen Christanos is indeed the same one from EQlive though. As was King Thex, but he's dead now.

Nocturnal Aby · 08-22-2007, 08:20 PM

Correct. They are Queen Cristanos and King Naythox (now deceased). However, I had heard some rumors that neither of them were truly of the Thexian bloodline (I have no idea where they had gotten this, I'm simply telling you what I've heard) and they are NOT the first king and queen of Neriak, as the PnP book named them. In fact, in Fallen Gate, we see quotes from several other past monarchs. What makes Cristanos talk that way? No clue. Never hurts to ask, though! Hmm, I'll let Cusa ask her...

As a side note, I would argue that his war was unsuccessful. The Naythoxian forces successfully sacked Felwithe, and killed the Koada'Dal king, along with burning down a large portion of Kelethin (with the aid of the orcs), and creating a bit of fuss at the entrance of Kaladim. One might argue that the only thing that prevented the Teir'Dal forces from winning the war was the lack of supplies, since they were quite far from home.

As to leaving Neriak open for attack, if you remember the Neriak from EQ, it was VERY defendable, and losing the Foreign Quarter was not much of a loss for them, as the true fortifications didn't even begin until you got to Neriak Commons.

Mary the Prophetess · 08-22-2007, 08:26 PM

I do seem to remember a lengthy discussion about this somtime ago. I did a forum search, but there are simply too many posts with 'Thex' or 'Christianos' in them.

As I recall though, the discussion centered around the longevity of the king and queen being too long to have been the originals.

However counter arguments pointed out the fact that the racial longevity tables which almost everyone uses, (because they are the only ones we have), come from the EQ table-top RPG, and are therefore not official.

Additionally, there was as argument forwarded that their lifespans were artificially lengthened beyond normal life expectancy through the use of magic, (a similar discussion occurred over Lucan's lifespan).

I am uncertain whether or not there was a definative statement made on the subject by one of the designers or not. (I suspect not--as is their way)

RaphaNissi · 08-22-2007, 09:49 PM

Wasn't the main purpose to get the other half of the scroll to commune with Inny? Since they obtained it, seems like it was a success afterall.

troodon · 08-22-2007, 10:24 PM

Mary the Prophetess wrote:

However counter arguments pointed out the fact that the racial longevity tables which almost everyone uses, (because they are the only ones we have), come from the EQ table-top RPG, and are therefore not official.

Well, the only story that claims they are the original monarchs is itself a questionable source. Plus, as mentioned earlier, we have quotes from other monarchs on monuments in Fallen Gate

Zarafein · 08-23-2007, 03:52 PM

Imo the monuments in fallen gate did nothing good to the lore, they work against 1. liege names 2. thex relation between high and dark elves 3. age of cristanos(dev stated that she is incredible old) note that all 3 points are eq2 lore, not stuff from anyother eq game or p&p

Solution1.: Maybe those monuments refer to rulers of other citys in the underdark, not to rulers of neriak(would be very strange..)

2.The original king and queen were Thex and in sometime of Neriaks history other rulers defeated the house of thex without eliminating all of them, so they came to power but later thex ruled again.

Possible that Cristanos is the orignal first queen and survieved during the reign of the other rulers.

iceriven2 · 08-23-2007, 06:09 PM

In EQ live before PoP there was some lore that stated when they both came to the throne there bloodlines were in question b/c some believed them not to be the true thex heir and the real one was in hiding. Also there was lore about the king being alive when mistmore sent the drachnids (spelling) to raid Neriak when he was a child. Considering the king was a child when Neriak was around he himself is far from being the first. My guess is the king and queen are not the first but, the elves, all 3 main species live longer then whats stated in the rpg book. and for the dark elves royalty they take the names of the originals to honor them much like they do in Qeynos. This second part is more of an educated guess but the first part is in game somewhere.

DrkVsr · 08-24-2007, 12:40 AM

RaphaNissi wrote:

Wasn't the main purpose to get the other half of the scroll to commune with Inny? Since they obtained it, seems like it was a success afterall.

They got it, but they lost it before getting it back to Neriak

Antonica Bayle is actually the latest descendant of the original Bayle's, not just someone who took the name 'in honour' of the original

Cusashorn · 08-24-2007, 02:17 AM

DrkVsr wrote:

RaphaNissi wrote:
Wasn't the main purpose to get the other half of the scroll to commune with Inny? Since they obtained it, seems like it was a success afterall.
They got it, but they lost it before getting it back to Neriak

Yeah then what is that giant scroll floating in the castle that all the dark elves are arguing over who it belongs to?

Nocturnal Aby · 08-24-2007, 03:14 AM

In the scenario where we saw the Thexian forces combatting the rangers, neither side got the scroll because Assassins of the Arm popped out of the well, and killed everyone but the the Thexian Prince, and maybe the good guys' hero as well. We found out that the Assassins of the Arm (as some of us had already theorized) are under Queen Cristanos. Some might say that they are her personal guard. It is not hard to see how the scroll ended up in Neriak. What's surprising is that, after all these centuries, the scroll is still in the Library, the various factions squabling over who gets to play with it.

I suppose those against the Queen might say that she's not made any dicision regarding it, because she doesn't want it used. Perhaps she stole it so no one else would be able to use it either?

Then again..timing is everything.

As I've already stated, there is more evidence contradicting Cristanos and Naythox being the original king and queen of the the Teir'Dal than there is supporting it.

As I said above, I had heard people say that there were in-game accounts that insinuated Cristanos and Naythox's claim to the Thex lineage as questionable. If possible, I'd love to learn what and where these were. The same thing with the supposed account of Naythox witnessing a drachnid attack.

Are these rumors true? If so, screenshots of the in-game sources would be great!

Zarafein · 08-24-2007, 10:36 AM

iceriven2 wrote:

In EQ live before PoP there was some lore that stated when they both came to the throne there bloodlines were in question b/c some believed them not to be the true thex heir and the real one was in hiding. Also there was lore about the king being alive when mistmore sent the drachnids (spelling) to raid Neriak when he was a child. Considering the king was a child when Neriak was around he himself is far from being the first. My guess is the king and queen are not the first but, the elves, all 3 main species live longer then whats stated in the rpg book. and for the dark elves royalty they take the names of the originals to honor them much like they do in Qeynos. This second part is more of an educated guess but the first part is in game somewhere.

Could be possible as well, but why is the queen so incredible old? btw this also proofes that normal elves don't live for tousends of years since she used magic to live this long and even has a spooky voice SMILEY If you read chapter 2 of the eof lore you can also see how old an elf can feel, ok he was alredy called old back at the attack on the nexus, but you get the impression that he feels much older in the eof story and that the time between both storys is a very long time for him.

Talonmare · 08-24-2007, 03:26 PM

Didn't the Ebon Mask in EQ1 believe that neither the King nor the Queen was of the true royal bloodline? I recall reading that somewhere, perhaps in a non-canonical source. If someone has any insight on the history of the Ebon Mask or the Eq1 Neriak Thieves guild, it may shed some light on the subject.

DrkVsr · 08-27-2007, 04:51 AM

Cusashorn wrote:

DrkVsr wrote:
RaphaNissi wrote:
Wasn't the main purpose to get the other half of the scroll to commune with Inny? Since they obtained it, seems like it was a success afterall.
They got it, but they lost it before getting it back to Neriak
Yeah then what is that giant scroll floating in the castle that all the dark elves are arguing over who it belongs to?

Guess Nocturnal Abyss explained it. Ah did both sides of that Pre-Prophet quest and it just mentioned that the Assassins of the Arm popped put of the well and slaughtered both sides, implying that the scroll was lost again, but if the 'Arm' are the *SMURF* Queen's personal forces it explains a few things

IrishWonder · 08-27-2007, 05:17 AM

Isn't this the same scroll that the Foci stole Soulfire for? In the Swords of Destiny quest series, we learn that she steals Soulfire, transports it to Faydwer, and trades it to Emperor D'Vinn's forces for a scroll.

If this is the case, it would seem that the Assassins of the Arm didn't recover the scroll when they made their surprise attack in the Innoruuk .vs. Tunare live-event quest, and the scroll was instead lost... somehow ending up on Faydwer, where Emperor D'Vinn claimed it. I definitely don't remember any dialogue in the live-event quest stating that the scroll was taken by the Assassins... just that they had attacked, and in the turmoil the scroll was lost.

08-22-2007, 07:24 PM	#4
MysticTrunks01 Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 148	I was of the understanding that it is infact the original king and queen living longer than the rest of the Tier'Dal peoples. __________________ Rolain Starfall on Antonia Bayle Silver Circle

08-22-2007, 08:20 PM	#6
Nocturnal Aby General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 581	Correct. They are Queen Cristanos and King Naythox (now deceased). However, I had heard some rumors that neither of them were truly of the Thexian bloodline (I have no idea where they had gotten this, I'm simply telling you what I've heard) and they are NOT the first king and queen of Neriak, as the PnP book named them. In fact, in Fallen Gate, we see quotes from several other past monarchs. What makes Cristanos talk that way? No clue. Never hurts to ask, though! Hmm, I'll let Cusa ask her... As a side note, I would argue that his war was unsuccessful. The Naythoxian forces successfully sacked Felwithe, and killed the Koada'Dal king, along with burning down a large portion of Kelethin (with the aid of the orcs), and creating a bit of fuss at the entrance of Kaladim. One might argue that the only thing that prevented the Teir'Dal forces from winning the war was the lack of supplies, since they were quite far from home. As to leaving Neriak open for attack, if you remember the Neriak from EQ, it was VERY defendable, and losing the Foreign Quarter was not much of a loss for them, as the true fortifications didn't even begin until you got to Neriak Commons. __________________ Keeper of Lore Endless Source of Useless Information

08-22-2007, 09:49 PM	#8
RaphaNissi The Athenaeum Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 721	Wasn't the main purpose to get the other half of the scroll to commune with Inny? Since they obtained it, seems like it was a success afterall. __________________

08-22-2007, 10:24 PM	#9
troodon Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Temple of Terror, Cabilis Posts: 1,098	Mary the Prophetess wrote: However counter arguments pointed out the fact that the racial longevity tables which almost everyone uses, (because they are the only ones we have), come from the EQ table-top RPG, and are therefore not official. Well, the only story that claims they are the original monarchs is itself a questionable source. Plus, as mentioned earlier, we have quotes from other monarchs on monuments in Fallen Gate __________________ ---- ROL GRATUL SKORCHERS!!

08-24-2007, 12:40 AM	#12
DrkVsr Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Land of the Short Brown Kiwi Posts: 2,041	RaphaNissi wrote: Wasn't the main purpose to get the other half of the scroll to commune with Inny? Since they obtained it, seems like it was a success afterall. They got it, but they lost it before getting it back to Neriak Antonica Bayle is actually the latest descendant of the original Bayle's, not just someone who took the name 'in honour' of the original __________________ V`Wak N`Ron: Teir`Dassin of the 56th Order, Gods of Najena Htaed Ybdehcuotnu: Gnecro of the 40th Order, Gods of Najena Phoendi Phyres: Eru-Din of the 28th Order, Gods of Najena Kilitty: Kemplar of the 30th Order, Gods of Najena Zabisuto Zyhopic: Guktassin of 27th Order, Spirits of Glencoe on Butcherblock Tralgarth: Trollsionist of the 28th Order, SoG on Butcherblock {2nd on Server} Blacqphlag Killzphast: Arserker of the 20th Order, Spirits of Glencoe on Butcherblock Hwalgren N`Gareen: Faeden of the 20th Order, Spirits of Glencoe on Butcherblock Reynes: Wooden Mule of the 7th Order, Spirits of Glencoe on Butcherblock You can kill me, but you will not stop me Ah can be killed, but ah will not die!

08-22-2007, 06:44 PM	#1
Ilavatar Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 242	Maybe the Queen of Neriak was right to assassinate the King. He had just caused a hugely unsucessful war that not only failed in Faydwer but also caused the greedy and imperilistic Halfings to invade Neriak. History is full of examples where assassination was used to remove despotic and/or disasterous leaders and where the assassins turned out to be much better for the realm. All Hail Queen, er, whatever her name is!

08-22-2007, 06:50 PM	#2
Cusashorn Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cheeseland, USA Posts: 14,919	The Dark Elves have been backstabbing each other, both figuratively, and litterally, ever since they were first created. The Queen planned on Offing King Thex since well back before EQlive's time period. This war just gave her the best chance to do so.

08-22-2007, 07:22 PM	#3
Siogai Loremaster Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 247	Current Queen Cristanos and former King Thex are not the originals.Dunno how long those two were together, but its not the original Tearis (sp?) and Cristanos... didn't someone post something official about this recently?

08-22-2007, 07:30 PM	#5
Cusashorn Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cheeseland, USA Posts: 14,919	Queen Christanos is indeed the same one from EQlive though. As was King Thex, but he's dead now.

08-22-2007, 08:26 PM	#7
Mary the Prophetess Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,472	I do seem to remember a lengthy discussion about this somtime ago. I did a forum search, but there are simply too many posts with 'Thex' or 'Christianos' in them. As I recall though, the discussion centered around the longevity of the king and queen being too long to have been the originals. However counter arguments pointed out the fact that the racial longevity tables which almost everyone uses, (because they are the only ones we have), come from the EQ table-top RPG, and are therefore not official. Additionally, there was as argument forwarded that their lifespans were artificially lengthened beyond normal life expectancy through the use of magic, (a similar discussion occurred over Lucan's lifespan). I am uncertain whether or not there was a definative statement made on the subject by one of the designers or not. (I suspect not--as is their way)

08-23-2007, 03:52 PM	#10
Zarafein Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 471	Imo the monuments in fallen gate did nothing good to the lore, they work against 1. liege names 2. thex relation between high and dark elves 3. age of cristanos(dev stated that she is incredible old) note that all 3 points are eq2 lore, not stuff from anyother eq game or p&p Solution1.: Maybe those monuments refer to rulers of other citys in the underdark, not to rulers of neriak(would be very strange..) 2.The original king and queen were Thex and in sometime of Neriaks history other rulers defeated the house of thex without eliminating all of them, so they came to power but later thex ruled again. Possible that Cristanos is the orignal first queen and survieved during the reign of the other rulers.

08-23-2007, 06:09 PM	#11
iceriven2 Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 632	In EQ live before PoP there was some lore that stated when they both came to the throne there bloodlines were in question b/c some believed them not to be the true thex heir and the real one was in hiding. Also there was lore about the king being alive when mistmore sent the drachnids (spelling) to raid Neriak when he was a child. Considering the king was a child when Neriak was around he himself is far from being the first. My guess is the king and queen are not the first but, the elves, all 3 main species live longer then whats stated in the rpg book. and for the dark elves royalty they take the names of the originals to honor them much like they do in Qeynos. This second part is more of an educated guess but the first part is in game somewhere.

08-24-2007, 02:17 AM	#13
Cusashorn Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cheeseland, USA Posts: 14,919	DrkVsr wrote: RaphaNissi wrote: Wasn't the main purpose to get the other half of the scroll to commune with Inny? Since they obtained it, seems like it was a success afterall. They got it, but they lost it before getting it back to Neriak Yeah then what is that giant scroll floating in the castle that all the dark elves are arguing over who it belongs to?

08-24-2007, 03:14 AM	#14
Nocturnal Aby General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 581	In the scenario where we saw the Thexian forces combatting the rangers, neither side got the scroll because Assassins of the Arm popped out of the well, and killed everyone but the the Thexian Prince, and maybe the good guys' hero as well. We found out that the Assassins of the Arm (as some of us had already theorized) are under Queen Cristanos. Some might say that they are her personal guard. It is not hard to see how the scroll ended up in Neriak. What's surprising is that, after all these centuries, the scroll is still in the Library, the various factions squabling over who gets to play with it. I suppose those against the Queen might say that she's not made any dicision regarding it, because she doesn't want it used. Perhaps she stole it so no one else would be able to use it either? Then again..timing is everything. As I've already stated, there is more evidence contradicting Cristanos and Naythox being the original king and queen of the the Teir'Dal than there is supporting it. As I said above, I had heard people say that there were in-game accounts that insinuated Cristanos and Naythox's claim to the Thex lineage as questionable. If possible, I'd love to learn what and where these were. The same thing with the supposed account of Naythox witnessing a drachnid attack. Are these rumors true? If so, screenshots of the in-game sources would be great! __________________ Keeper of Lore Endless Source of Useless Information

08-24-2007, 10:36 AM	#15
Zarafein Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 471	iceriven2 wrote: In EQ live before PoP there was some lore that stated when they both came to the throne there bloodlines were in question b/c some believed them not to be the true thex heir and the real one was in hiding. Also there was lore about the king being alive when mistmore sent the drachnids (spelling) to raid Neriak when he was a child. Considering the king was a child when Neriak was around he himself is far from being the first. My guess is the king and queen are not the first but, the elves, all 3 main species live longer then whats stated in the rpg book. and for the dark elves royalty they take the names of the originals to honor them much like they do in Qeynos. This second part is more of an educated guess but the first part is in game somewhere. Could be possible as well, but why is the queen so incredible old? btw this also proofes that normal elves don't live for tousends of years since she used magic to live this long and even has a spooky voice If you read chapter 2 of the eof lore you can also see how old an elf can feel, ok he was alredy called old back at the attack on the nexus, but you get the impression that he feels much older in the eof story and that the time between both storys is a very long time for him.

08-24-2007, 03:26 PM	#16
Talonmare Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 36	Didn't the Ebon Mask in EQ1 believe that neither the King nor the Queen was of the true royal bloodline? I recall reading that somewhere, perhaps in a non-canonical source. If someone has any insight on the history of the Ebon Mask or the Eq1 Neriak Thieves guild, it may shed some light on the subject.

08-27-2007, 04:51 AM	#17
DrkVsr Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Land of the Short Brown Kiwi Posts: 2,041	Cusashorn wrote: DrkVsr wrote: RaphaNissi wrote: Wasn't the main purpose to get the other half of the scroll to commune with Inny? Since they obtained it, seems like it was a success afterall. They got it, but they lost it before getting it back to Neriak Yeah then what is that giant scroll floating in the castle that all the dark elves are arguing over who it belongs to? Guess Nocturnal Abyss explained it. Ah did both sides of that Pre-Prophet quest and it just mentioned that the Assassins of the Arm popped put of the well and slaughtered both sides, implying that the scroll was lost again, but if the 'Arm' are the SMURF Queen's personal forces it explains a few things __________________ V`Wak N`Ron: Teir`Dassin of the 56th Order, Gods of Najena Htaed Ybdehcuotnu: Gnecro of the 40th Order, Gods of Najena Phoendi Phyres: Eru-Din of the 28th Order, Gods of Najena Kilitty: Kemplar of the 30th Order, Gods of Najena Zabisuto Zyhopic: Guktassin of 27th Order, Spirits of Glencoe on Butcherblock Tralgarth: Trollsionist of the 28th Order, SoG on Butcherblock {2nd on Server} Blacqphlag Killzphast: Arserker of the 20th Order, Spirits of Glencoe on Butcherblock Hwalgren N`Gareen: Faeden of the 20th Order, Spirits of Glencoe on Butcherblock Reynes: Wooden Mule of the 7th Order, Spirits of Glencoe on Butcherblock You can kill me, but you will not stop me Ah can be killed, but ah will not die!

08-27-2007, 05:17 AM	#18
IrishWonder Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Alabama, USA Posts: 458	Isn't this the same scroll that the Foci stole Soulfire for? In the Swords of Destiny quest series, we learn that she steals Soulfire, transports it to Faydwer, and trades it to Emperor D'Vinn's forces for a scroll. If this is the case, it would seem that the Assassins of the Arm didn't recover the scroll when they made their surprise attack in the Innoruuk .vs. Tunare live-event quest, and the scroll was instead lost... somehow ending up on Faydwer, where Emperor D'Vinn claimed it. I definitely don't remember any dialogue in the live-event quest stating that the scroll was taken by the Assassins... just that they had attacked, and in the turmoil the scroll was lost. __________________ The only Light you'll see from me, is that which burns the soul to see. Shadowreap Deathbane, The First Dark Elf Conjuror on Guk troopsofdoom.com - VIDEOS OF RAID MOBS!!! Nexona, Trakanon, Wuoshi, and more!