Parsing the Duel Wield changes on test

[Bunion]

I ran some logs on test with my Swashbuckler first using 1 hand qeynos kilij with me spec'd as wisdom (one handed double attack line) and then did duel wield with the kilij and qeynos cutlass. Both weapons have exact same damage and delay ratings and the same proc. Both 31-92 damage with a 1.6 delay and 76.8 damage rating. I straight autoattacked the mob, no combat arts, no haste proc. and had a 25 haste rating which is 28% increase in attack speed. I killed the same amount of mobs and the same make up mobs each time. (I was able to get both weapons since you can buy them from an NPC in Qeynos Harbor)

  With 1 handed:

Total DPS: 502, pierce 91% damage, Power of Marr 9% (Proc Rate 3.6%)

Melee: 458dps, 751 swings, 751 hits, 143 crits, avg delay 0.66

Duel Wield:

Total DPS: 423, pierce 49%, Slash 45%, Power of Marr 6% (Proc Rate 2.5%)

Melee: 397 dps, 731 swings, 731 hits, 158 crits, avg delay 0.73

 A couple of notes on this, with Freehand Reversal I will riposte 5% of all frontal attacks, which I was swung at 240 times, which should be roughly around 12 extra attacks with 1 hand. But that still only changes the delay to 0.67. (Based on 730 attacks in 494 seconds instead of the 751 in that time) With duel wield I figured the extra pierce damage percentage was due to ripostes since I had the Kijil (piercing) in main hand.

The proc rate is what I find strange, since it will not proc on the double attack, you'd think that the duel wield would at least equal the proc rate as 1 handed, but apparently not. Obviously this wasn't a huge sample but should give a fairly decent idea of what happens.

 Seems to be at least in this limited test that 1 hand is still the way to go.

(I had posted this on the Duel Wield changes under testing feedback, but seemed to get lost in a discussion on brawler DPS)

Callus

70 Swashbuckler Guk

[PakMonyet]

Nice Post!  Finally some real data......

[Antas22]

Proc rates are screwed up with the new changes. Brawlers, in particular, have been complaining about it in the In Testing forum. Higher delay when you dual wield, but the proc percentage stays the same. So the Kijil is proccing on the same number of original swings (not counting double attacks) in both setups, but when dual wielding, you're swinging it less often. I think, unless this is changed, more testing, particularly in a raiding environment, is going to see dual wield falling very short, which will only serve to further agrivate those classes who don't have a double-attack AA line.

[Ookami-san]

I also hear attack is messed up and you hit more often on test. =(  So dps numbers are probably skewed at this point since the hit % will be messed up... tho... it should be messed up for both, so they shouldn't be too far off... still... the extra STR from the off-hand weapon will bump ATK up slightly.

[Delow]

Antas@Oasis wrote:

Proc rates are screwed up with the new changes. Brawlers, in particular, have been complaining about it in the In Testing forum. Higher delay when you dual wield, but the proc percentage stays the same. So the Kijil is proccing on the same number of original swings (not counting double attacks) in both setups, but when dual wielding, you're swinging it less often. I think, unless this is changed, more testing, particularly in a raiding environment, is going to see dual wield falling very short, which will only serve to further agrivate those classes who don't have a double-attack AA line.

One of the devs posted the following under the in testing feedback forum:

"Once the gu38 test update goes out the proc calculation will change slightly.  Since procs are based off you unhasted base delay they will start to use delay * 1.33 to match their true base delay when dual wielding.  If you don't dual wield or use a ranged weapon then they will still use the base delay of the weapon for proc calculations."

I am sure they will address the major concerns of DW once GU38 hits the test servers, until then I would hold off on any actual DPS comparing with DW and 1h specs.

[Antas22]

Odeius@Guk wrote:

One of the devs posted the following under the in testing feedback forum:

"Once the gu38 test update goes out the proc calculation will change slightly.  Since procs are based off you unhasted base delay they will start to use delay * 1.33 to match their true base delay when dual wielding.  If you don't dual wield or use a ranged weapon then they will still use the base delay of the weapon for proc calculations."

I am sure they will address the major concerns of DW once GU38 hits the test servers, until then I would hold off on any actual DPS comparing with DW and 1h specs.

See there, this is what happens when I don't actually bother to keep up on a thread. Instead of degrading into nonsense as most do, there's actually a useful post from SoE. It's a conspiracy, I tell ya.

[Geakor]

That is not a good post and that is completely unfair data. It is when you put in these extra factors that makes things worse.

Unspec WIS line and try again. Have no AA's what so ever and see what you get. Either that or Spec the other line that you normal do (STR or AGI) with 1hander and then respec to STR/AGI and have someone taunt the mob so you hit it from behind for Avast Ye.

You spec something that is going to increase your damage for one set but not something for the other. You want to know whats going to be better - duel wield or 1handing - well of course if you add an extra spec in there for 1handed damage your going to get more dps.

[Pulli]

I would assume he went str/agi for the dual wield parsing because common sense says to instead of staying wis line for that parsing, although he didn't state it. However the gap is a little too large to be accurate and would suggest he not not respec. I highly doubt there is a 15.8% difference in DPS between the two specs based on other posts on this forum as well as my own parsing. However, the proc rate on this parse is screwy so it is entirely possible that did create the gap since that proc rate would effect all procs (poisons, bravado, offensive stance...).

EDIT: He mentioned he did not use haste proc or combat arts, but he made no mention of offensive stance which has a small proc, but it can add up.

[Cocytus]

Geakor wrote:

That is not a good post and that is completely unfair data. It is when you put in these extra factors that makes things worse.

Unspec WIS line and try again. Have no AA's what so ever and see what you get. Either that or Spec the other line that you normal do (STR or AGI) with 1hander and then respec to STR/AGI and have someone taunt the mob so you hit it from behind for Avast Ye.

You spec something that is going to increase your damage for one set but not something for the other. You want to know whats going to be better - duel wield or 1handing - well of course if you add an extra spec in there for 1handed damage your going to get more dps.

....

Why the hell would you parse 1h without being wisdom specced?

[Hamervelder]

Cocytus wrote:

Geakor wrote:

That is not a good post and that is completely unfair data. It is when you put in these extra factors that makes things worse.

Unspec WIS line and try again. Have no AA's what so ever and see what you get. Either that or Spec the other line that you normal do (STR or AGI) with 1hander and then respec to STR/AGI and have someone taunt the mob so you hit it from behind for Avast Ye.

You spec something that is going to increase your damage for one set but not something for the other. You want to know whats going to be better - duel wield or 1handing - well of course if you add an extra spec in there for 1handed damage your going to get more dps.

....

Why the hell would you parse 1h without being wisdom specced?

To make the brigand in the next group feel better about himself?  Hehe sorry, I couldn't resist. 

[Antas22]

Cocytus wrote:

Geakor wrote:

That is not a good post and that is completely unfair data. It is when you put in these extra factors that makes things worse.

Unspec WIS line and try again. Have no AA's what so ever and see what you get. Either that or Spec the other line that you normal do (STR or AGI) with 1hander and then respec to STR/AGI and have someone taunt the mob so you hit it from behind for Avast Ye.

You spec something that is going to increase your damage for one set but not something for the other. You want to know whats going to be better - duel wield or 1handing - well of course if you add an extra spec in there for 1handed damage your going to get more dps.

....

Why the hell would you parse 1h without being wisdom specced?

Not to mention that he wants you to fight face to face with 1 hander, but have someone taunting so you can fight from behind Dual Wielding.Sounds like a fantastic idea to me.

[Moonlance]

Cocytus wrote:

Geakor wrote:

That is not a good post and that is completely unfair data. It is when you put in these extra factors that makes things worse.

Unspec WIS line and try again. Have no AA's what so ever and see what you get. Either that or Spec the other line that you normal do (STR or AGI) with 1hander and then respec to STR/AGI and have someone taunt the mob so you hit it from behind for Avast Ye.

You spec something that is going to increase your damage for one set but not something for the other. You want to know whats going to be better - duel wield or 1handing - well of course if you add an extra spec in there for 1handed damage your going to get more dps.

....

Why the hell would you parse 1h without being wisdom specced?

I think what he was saying is that specing Wis and testing dw while spec'd wis is not fair.  To test 1h you have to spec wis/(agi/str), to really test dw you need to spec str/agi. Edit: they really need a way for players on test to change specs as often as necessary to properly test different lineups.

[Cocytus]

Test server had unlimited respecs last I checked, actually. I specced str/agi for my dual wield tests and attacked the perma-stunned mob...1h was superior.

edit - Dual wielding was better for burst DPS, but 1h left it in the dust for sustained dps.

[Geakor]

Cocytus wrote:

Geakor wrote:

That is not a good post and that is completely unfair data. It is when you put in these extra factors that makes things worse.

Unspec WIS line and try again. Have no AA's what so ever and see what you get. Either that or Spec the other line that you normal do (STR or AGI) with 1hander and then respec to STR/AGI and have someone taunt the mob so you hit it from behind for Avast Ye.

You spec something that is going to increase your damage for one set but not something for the other. You want to know whats going to be better - duel wield or 1handing - well of course if you add an extra spec in there for 1handed damage your going to get more dps.

....

Why the hell would you parse 1h without being wisdom specced?

Because you want to parse plain 1hander vs. plain duel wielding. You want to see what they do compaired to each other NOT what one does with an extra proc vs. the other. Adding an extra component into the equation does not make things even.

[Hamervelder]

I did some more testing today.  I ran 5 fights with each style, against lvl 66 baselisks in the Bonemore,  No combat-arts.  Strictly auto-attack.Fencing:  Vilucidae's Sword of shielding.  Average dps:  649.Dual-wield:  Dirk of Negativity and Talonsreach.  Average dps:  479.And just for fun, I tried out str/sta, "tank" spec.  I parsed a whopping 288.

[Hamervelder]

Geakor wrote:

Cocytus wrote:

Geakor wrote:

That is not a good post and that is completely unfair data. It is when you put in these extra factors that makes things worse.

Unspec WIS line and try again. Have no AA's what so ever and see what you get. Either that or Spec the other line that you normal do (STR or AGI) with 1hander and then respec to STR/AGI and have someone taunt the mob so you hit it from behind for Avast Ye.

You spec something that is going to increase your damage for one set but not something for the other. You want to know whats going to be better - duel wield or 1handing - well of course if you add an extra spec in there for 1handed damage your going to get more dps.

....

Why the hell would you parse 1h without being wisdom specced?

Because you want to parse plain 1hander vs. plain duel wielding. You want to see what they do compaired to each other NOT what one does with an extra proc vs. the other. Adding an extra component into the equation does not make things even.

And what is the purpose of that?  I really don't see what it matters how dual-wield parses vs 1-hand without being widsom spec'd.  Not for swashbucklers, or any other scout.  The vast majority of us probably do not care at all how 1-handed would parse, without being wisdom spec'd.  I certainly don't.

[Geakor]

Atelos@Antonia Bayle wrote:

Geakor wrote:

Cocytus wrote:

Geakor wrote:

That is not a good post and that is completely unfair data. It is when you put in these extra factors that makes things worse.

Unspec WIS line and try again. Have no AA's what so ever and see what you get. Either that or Spec the other line that you normal do (STR or AGI) with 1hander and then respec to STR/AGI and have someone taunt the mob so you hit it from behind for Avast Ye.

You spec something that is going to increase your damage for one set but not something for the other. You want to know whats going to be better - duel wield or 1handing - well of course if you add an extra spec in there for 1handed damage your going to get more dps.

....

Why the hell would you parse 1h without being wisdom specced?

Because you want to parse plain 1hander vs. plain duel wielding. You want to see what they do compaired to each other NOT what one does with an extra proc vs. the other. Adding an extra component into the equation does not make things even.

And what is the purpose of that?  I really don't see what it matters how dual-wield parses vs 1-hand without being widsom spec'd.  Not for swashbucklers, or any other scout.  The vast majority of us probably do not care at all how 1-handed would parse, without being wisdom spec'd.  I certainly don't.

Obviously we you don't or you just don't know what 'raw' data is about. That means nothing extra just you and the weapon, that will give you bare minimum DPS with 1hander vs. duel wield. I am lvl 60 now and with Avest Ye on 8 it will proc 16% of the time and proc for 600 something. I go down STR/AGI line and with me vs. a swash (I was 60 and he was 59) we were both equally equiped Master crafted and he had the Bixie sword from TT and I had master crafted weapons on both Adept 3 out I was parsing 100 - 300 higher than him, even more at times. That is just how I roll and I like to be behind the mob more often than not, I hit harder and more often from back there.

 But as I stated before - with the changes it is the question how will the weapon changes from duel wield to all weapons being 1handed and have more damage but higher dely change the dps of it, NOT how well will your wis line still work with the changes. Scouts are not the only classes in the game mind you, the changes to weapons will affect every class that wields a weapon - which happens to be all of them not just the greedy swashbucklers.

[Bramwe]

I can understand where this is confusing.  Basically did the OP spec Str/Agi when he tested the dual wielding or did he stay Wis specced?  He does not say.  If not then it isn't fair to say that the one handed Wis spec is better if you just equiped dual wield weapons but stayed Wis specced.  That would be like speccing Str/Agi and testing 1 handed weapons vs dual wielding and saying dual wielding is better.  If the OP did spec Str/Agi when he tested out dual wielding then it becomes more clear.

[Hamervelder]

Geakor wrote:

Atelos@Antonia Bayle wrote:

Geakor wrote:

Cocytus wrote:

Geakor wrote:

That is not a good post and that is completely unfair data. It is when you put in these extra factors that makes things worse.

Unspec WIS line and try again. Have no AA's what so ever and see what you get. Either that or Spec the other line that you normal do (STR or AGI) with 1hander and then respec to STR/AGI and have someone taunt the mob so you hit it from behind for Avast Ye.

You spec something that is going to increase your damage for one set but not something for the other. You want to know whats going to be better - duel wield or 1handing - well of course if you add an extra spec in there for 1handed damage your going to get more dps.

....

Why the hell would you parse 1h without being wisdom specced?

Because you want to parse plain 1hander vs. plain duel wielding. You want to see what they do compaired to each other NOT what one does with an extra proc vs. the other. Adding an extra component into the equation does not make things even.

And what is the purpose of that?  I really don't see what it matters how dual-wield parses vs 1-hand without being widsom spec'd.  Not for swashbucklers, or any other scout.  The vast majority of us probably do not care at all how 1-handed would parse, without being wisdom spec'd.  I certainly don't.

Obviously we you don't or you just don't know what 'raw' data is about. That means nothing extra just you and the weapon, that will give you bare minimum DPS with 1hander vs. duel wield. I am lvl 60 now and with Avest Ye on 8 it will proc 16% of the time and proc for 600 something. I go down STR/AGI line and with me vs. a swash (I was 60 and he was 59) we were both equally equiped Master crafted and he had the Bixie sword from TT and I had master crafted weapons on both Adept 3 out I was parsing 100 - 300 higher than him, even more at times. That is just how I roll and I like to be behind the mob more often than not, I hit harder and more often from back there.

 But as I stated before - with the changes it is the question how will the weapon changes from duel wield to all weapons being 1handed and have more damage but higher dely change the dps of it, NOT how well will your wis line still work with the changes. Scouts are not the only classes in the game mind you, the changes to weapons will affect every class that wields a weapon - which happens to be all of them not just the greedy swashbucklers.

Why are you even posting in the swashbuckler forum?  Let us test the changes and see how they apply to swashbucklers, and you go do your thing.  'Raw' data, as you put it, is useless.  Why?  Because that isn't how you're going to fight.  You aren't (unless you're an idiot) going to go out and wield one weapon as a swashbuckler without being wisdom spec'd.  Therefore, it . does . not . matter . how one-handed parses unless you're wisdom spec'd.  Yes, there are other classes that wield weapons, but thank you for your wisdom there.  However, last time I looked, Atelos was a swashbuckler.  Leithe was a swashbuckler.  How the game affects guardians and assassin and mages is really a bit less relevant to us than how it affects swashbucklers.  We are, after all, in the Swashbuckler forum.  /shakes head

[Vatec]

Geakor wrote:

Cocytus wrote:

Geakor wrote:

That is not a good post and that is completely unfair data. It is when you put in these extra factors that makes things worse.

Unspec WIS line and try again. Have no AA's what so ever and see what you get. Either that or Spec the other line that you normal do (STR or AGI) with 1hander and then respec to STR/AGI and have someone taunt the mob so you hit it from behind for Avast Ye.

You spec something that is going to increase your damage for one set but not something for the other. You want to know whats going to be better - duel wield or 1handing - well of course if you add an extra spec in there for 1handed damage your going to get more dps.

....

Why the hell would you parse 1h without being wisdom specced?

Because you want to parse plain 1hander vs. plain duel wielding. You want to see what they do compaired to each other NOT what one does with an extra proc vs. the other. Adding an extra component into the equation does not make things even.

Well, no, because that information is useless in practical terms.  Who cares which parses better under those conditions?  More to the point, it's =obvious= which one parses better under those conditions.  You can just do the math:  100 damage every 3 seconds versus 200 damage every 4 seconds, assuming hit % doesn't change due to dual-wielding.So, in order to get a useful comparison, what you need to do is parse maxed out 1H DPS versus maxed out DW DPS.  The first is only achieved by speccing the WIS AA line along with either STR or AGI.  The second is probably achieved by speccing STR and AGI.  So, for the sake of completeness, it would be nice to see 1H WIS/STR, 1H WIS/AGI, and DW STR/AGI....At least Swashies don't need to deal with the complication of a buckler being tossed into the mix like Warriors do :^P

[Cocytus]

Geakor wrote:

Obviously we you don't or you just don't know what 'raw' data is about. That means nothing extra just you and the weapon, that will give you bare minimum DPS with 1hander vs. duel wield. I am lvl 60 now and with Avest Ye on 8 it will proc 16% of the time and proc for 600 something. I go down STR/AGI line and with me vs. a swash (I was 60 and he was 59) we were both equally equiped Master crafted and he had the Bixie sword from TT and I had master crafted weapons on both Adept 3 out I was parsing 100 - 300 higher than him, even more at times. That is just how I roll and I like to be behind the mob more often than not, I hit harder and more often from back there.

 But as I stated before - with the changes it is the question how will the weapon changes from duel wield to all weapons being 1handed and have more damage but higher dely change the dps of it, NOT how well will your wis line still work with the changes. Scouts are not the only classes in the game mind you, the changes to weapons will affect every class that wields a weapon - which happens to be all of them not just the greedy swashbucklers.

This is the most mentally handicapped thing I have ever read in my life.

[Antas22]

Geakor wrote:

Atelos@Antonia Bayle wrote:

Geakor wrote:

Cocytus wrote:

Geakor wrote:

That is not a good post and that is completely unfair data. It is when you put in these extra factors that makes things worse.

Unspec WIS line and try again. Have no AA's what so ever and see what you get. Either that or Spec the other line that you normal do (STR or AGI) with 1hander and then respec to STR/AGI and have someone taunt the mob so you hit it from behind for Avast Ye.

You spec something that is going to increase your damage for one set but not something for the other. You want to know whats going to be better - duel wield or 1handing - well of course if you add an extra spec in there for 1handed damage your going to get more dps.

....

Why the hell would you parse 1h without being wisdom specced?

Because you want to parse plain 1hander vs. plain duel wielding. You want to see what they do compaired to each other NOT what one does with an extra proc vs. the other. Adding an extra component into the equation does not make things even.

And what is the purpose of that?  I really don't see what it matters how dual-wield parses vs 1-hand without being widsom spec'd.  Not for swashbucklers, or any other scout.  The vast majority of us probably do not care at all how 1-handed would parse, without being wisdom spec'd.  I certainly don't.

Obviously we you don't or you just don't know what 'raw' data is about. That means nothing extra just you and the weapon, that will give you bare minimum DPS with 1hander vs. duel wield. I am lvl 60 now and with Avest Ye on 8 it will proc 16% of the time and proc for 600 something. I go down STR/AGI line and with me vs. a swash (I was 60 and he was 59) we were both equally equiped Master crafted and he had the Bixie sword from TT and I had master crafted weapons on both Adept 3 out I was parsing 100 - 300 higher than him, even more at times. That is just how I roll and I like to be behind the mob more often than not, I hit harder and more often from back there.

 But as I stated before - with the changes it is the question how will the weapon changes from duel wield to all weapons being 1handed and have more damage but higher dely change the dps of it, NOT how well will your wis line still work with the changes. Scouts are not the only classes in the game mind you, the changes to weapons will affect every class that wields a weapon - which happens to be all of them not just the greedy swashbucklers.

Since you feel the need to use me as an example, I'll go ahead and retort: First, you were speced WIS with a fabled 1 hander, kind of kills the entire argument. Secondly, yes, you were peaking higher than me in the parses you bothered to post to say, but I was running parses of my own: zonewide, I beat you by a very narrow margin.As a matter of fact, here's the zonewide parse for our Tables run:Allies: (09:07) 756803 | 1383.55 [Halagad-Surprise Attack-2035]Kalandre 325555 | 595.16Halagad 287763 | 526.08 141973 | 259.55 1512 | 2.76Of course, I do give credit where credit is deserved, and you DID peak well:Allies: (00:12) 25619 | 2134.92 [Halagad-Debilitate-1802]Halagad 14989 | 1249.08Kalandre 6430 | 535.83 4200 | 350.00 0 | 0.00However, that does not make your argument any more valid. Parsing 1 hander without WIS is as foolish as parsing dual wield WITH it. Both should have the common AA setups (because thats whats being tested here, not the weapons themselves), and be used under the same conditions.For future reference, next time you make a post laced with blatantly false examples, make sure the subject of that post doesn't frequent the forum.

[Hamervelder]

Antas@Oasis wrote:

Geakor wrote:

Atelos@Antonia Bayle wrote:

Geakor wrote:

Cocytus wrote:

Geakor wrote:

That is not a good post and that is completely unfair data. It is when you put in these extra factors that makes things worse.

Unspec WIS line and try again. Have no AA's what so ever and see what you get. Either that or Spec the other line that you normal do (STR or AGI) with 1hander and then respec to STR/AGI and have someone taunt the mob so you hit it from behind for Avast Ye.

You spec something that is going to increase your damage for one set but not something for the other. You want to know whats going to be better - duel wield or 1handing - well of course if you add an extra spec in there for 1handed damage your going to get more dps.

....

Why the hell would you parse 1h without being wisdom specced?

Because you want to parse plain 1hander vs. plain duel wielding. You want to see what they do compaired to each other NOT what one does with an extra proc vs. the other. Adding an extra component into the equation does not make things even.

And what is the purpose of that?  I really don't see what it matters how dual-wield parses vs 1-hand without being widsom spec'd.  Not for swashbucklers, or any other scout.  The vast majority of us probably do not care at all how 1-handed would parse, without being wisdom spec'd.  I certainly don't.

Obviously we you don't or you just don't know what 'raw' data is about. That means nothing extra just you and the weapon, that will give you bare minimum DPS with 1hander vs. duel wield. I am lvl 60 now and with Avest Ye on 8 it will proc 16% of the time and proc for 600 something. I go down STR/AGI line and with me vs. a swash (I was 60 and he was 59) we were both equally equiped Master crafted and he had the Bixie sword from TT and I had master crafted weapons on both Adept 3 out I was parsing 100 - 300 higher than him, even more at times. That is just how I roll and I like to be behind the mob more often than not, I hit harder and more often from back there.

 But as I stated before - with the changes it is the question how will the weapon changes from duel wield to all weapons being 1handed and have more damage but higher dely change the dps of it, NOT how well will your wis line still work with the changes. Scouts are not the only classes in the game mind you, the changes to weapons will affect every class that wields a weapon - which happens to be all of them not just the greedy swashbucklers.

Since you feel the need to use me as an example, I'll go ahead and retort: First, you were speced WIS with a fabled 1 hander, kind of kills the entire argument. Secondly, yes, you were peaking higher than me in the parses you bothered to post to say, but I was running parses of my own: zonewide, I beat you by a very narrow margin.As a matter of fact, here's the zonewide parse for our Tables run:Allies: (09:07) 756803 | 1383.55 [Halagad-Surprise Attack-2035]Kalandre 325555 | 595.16Halagad 287763 | 526.08 141973 | 259.55 1512 | 2.76Of course, I do give credit where credit is deserved, and you DID peak well:Allies: (00:12) 25619 | 2134.92 [Halagad-Debilitate-1802]Halagad 14989 | 1249.08Kalandre 6430 | 535.83 4200 | 350.00 0 | 0.00However, that does not make your argument any more valid. Parsing 1 hander without WIS is as foolish as parsing dual wield WITH it. Both should have the common AA setups (because thats whats being tested here, not the weapons themselves), and be used under the same conditions.For future reference, next time you make a post laced with blatantly false examples, make sure the subject of that post doesn't frequent the forum.

Burn!

[Geakor]

First thing I must say I love this massive quoting.

Secondly if you knew how a brig plays half the time I have to save other peoples lives because tanks are really blowing lately with keeping aggro off everyone so I have to sit there and stop others from getting killed, if you don't remember Kal who had aggro during our time in the tables the other day? It wasn't the tank I can tell you that either you or I would get aggro and in those cases I would pull them off of you as quickly as possible. Like yesterday when I spent half the time keeping mobs off our healer rather than dpsing - so you can burn little man. I don't care about being top dps, if I wanted that I would have made tier 1 dps class. I lower mobs abilities well before I care what my dps turns out to be. I would like to know flat out what is going to be better 1handed vs duel wielding. I would think every one would agree that duel weilding should put out more dps rather than using a 1hander and I want to make sure of that. This was the only place where I saw any type of that test going on that is why I posted here, I guess no other class really cares about the changes as swashys do. But testing is over and it is suppose to go live today so I guess we shall see what is going to happen now.

And we have grouped more than just the one time in Tables Kal, not to mention I have grouped with a few of you swashy that love to get that bixie sword - and yes that time I was WIS spec'd because I wanted to test it out before the next LU so I can see how things are with duel wield STR/AGI vs 1handed STR/WIS line.

[Antas22]

Geakor wrote:

First thing I must say I love this massive quoting.

Secondly if you knew how a brig plays half the time I have to save other peoples lives because tanks are really blowing lately with keeping aggro off everyone so I have to sit there and stop others from getting killed, if you don't remember Kal who had aggro during our time in the tables the other day? It wasn't the tank I can tell you that either you or I would get aggro and in those cases I would pull them off of you as quickly as possible. Like yesterday when I spent half the time keeping mobs off our healer rather than dpsing - so you can burn little man. I don't care about being top dps, if I wanted that I would have made tier 1 dps class. I lower mobs abilities well before I care what my dps turns out to be. I would like to know flat out what is going to be better 1handed vs duel wielding. I would think every one would agree that duel weilding should put out more dps rather than using a 1hander and I want to make sure of that. This was the only place where I saw any type of that test going on that is why I posted here, I guess no other class really cares about the changes as swashys do. But testing is over and it is suppose to go live today so I guess we shall see what is going to happen now.

And we have grouped more than just the one time in Tables Kal, not to mention I have grouped with a few of you swashy that love to get that bixie sword - and yes that time I was WIS spec'd because I wanted to test it out before the next LU so I can see how things are with duel wield STR/AGI vs 1handed STR/WIS line.

Okay, let's investigate this. First, I've grouped with you once, and only once. Secondly, I do know Brigs, I WAS one. Thirdly, there are EXACTLY 2 Swashbucklers on Oasis that match the description you put forth, and only ONE has logged since July: me (it's not as though the server is crawling with late t6/early t7 chars). Fourth, not ONCE did the healer get agro in our group. Fourth, I was simply breaking down your very weak argument, not turning this into a DPS competition. If I wanted, I could show you the breakdown of my damage, revealing that only ONCE in the entire run did I use Inspired Daring, if we really want to get into a childish "zomg I wasn't going all out DPS" argument. Finally, don't act like your debuffing is crippling your DPS, Swash are rogues too, in fact, if you recall, I had a little discussion with you before we got started so we could coordinate our debuffs better.I do seem to recall reading several posts from you about "nobody is able to out-DPS me in groups", so I'd say you do care, a bit, about being top DPS. That's not what this argument is about...it's about the extremely lame attempt you made to back up a weak argument using false information. I simply pointed out the falsehoods.

[liveja]

Geakor wrote:

I would think every one would agree that duel weilding should put out more dps rather than using a 1hander.

If that were true, there would be no reason for a 1-hander AA spec. Better DPS for dual wield plus better stats = hands-down better combo, & anyone choosing otherwise would be flatly gimping themselves. So no, I don't think you'll get a whole lot of people agreeing with you.

Since very few people of any level are working without AAs, it's silly to talk about the "raw data" of weapons. Simply put, it's just not relevant. What is relevant is one AA spec vs another. This is especially true at anything above 60th level.

Good day, sir.

[Luk]

Time to put my nose into this one.....You should use raw data, this will give you a base line for a one hander/empty off hand and dual wielding, this way you can make sure you have BOTH raw data weapon combos at the same DPS level. Then and only then can you truly compare what each AA spec gives you in terms of DPS boost. You really need to know that both set ups are close to the same base DPS to make an accurate assessment as to which is better.

[Hamervelder]

Lukia wrote:

Time to put my nose into this one.....You should use raw data, this will give you a base line for a one hander/empty off hand and dual wielding, this way you can make sure you have BOTH raw data weapon combos at the same DPS level. Then and only then can you truly compare what each AA spec gives you in terms of DPS boost. You really need to know that both set ups are close to the same base DPS to make an accurate assessment as to which is better.

The "raw" data is still irrelevant.  You don't (hopefully) fight with no AA's, so parsing without them is a moot point.  The end result, ie -- how you perform with various specs, is what is important.

[Duskwo]

i get more dps out of str/agi than i do outta str/wis, or str/sta. And tbh a ton of it comes from that pirate stab. I figured 16%, hey its not gonna go off much. . . but man does it!

So heres a question, does EACH HIT have a 16% chance to trigger it? if so two weapons seems like it would trigger way more often then agi spec with one. I luff the pirate stab . . .

[Geakor]

I have grouped with you more than once because I asked you 'where you got the bixie sword' because I wanted one. But that is besides the point.

I don't know if this matters to you guys but on brigand forum they say YES STR/WIS line is the highest dps line you can go down, WHEN you have the appropriate weapon ie t7/8 fabled 1handers along with appropriate buffs. But as non raiders go that do not get these great fabled weapons duel wield STR/AGI line is the best for you; at least for brigands.

OH also I saw a buff on a swash the other day that I did not know that you had - Hurrican? Which adept I has 38% chance of primary weapon auto attacking mobs infront of you, this DOES make STR / WIS better for you than it would a Brig. MY BAD someone could have told me about this skill. Dang swashies.