Broken Game Mechanic - skill caps

Jesdyr · 08-10-2007, 03:44 PM

I am sure everyone has noticed that once your skill cap is increased, you suddenly cannot preform that skill's task very well until your skill is back up to 100% of the cap. Why is it that you will never fail to harvest a node with 100/100 mining but that same tier node you will fail 6 out of 10 times to harvest anything because you are now at 100/105? This happens with EVERYTHING in the game. Adventure skills/harvesting/tradeskill are all effected by this. Did you character suddenly forget how to mine rock because he/she suddenly has the potential to get better? Now we come to 2ndary tradeskills. Most people dont start these till "later" when they have a large variance between the cap and their current skill. Anyone who pays attention while crafting can tell the failure rate per tic is much higher when you are not at 100% of cap. When leveling a 2ndary skill you are always below 100% since they are not XP based. This means that these combines are actually much harder than they should be. Yes, I know you really only "need" to get the first bar, but for the "usefull" items you will almost always want to get to the last line (get back as many rares as you can). Also, why is it that you tend to gain skills faster by failing? This is more noticeable with harvesting than anything else. Yah I know .. big deal .. it isnt a game breaker. The only time this really causes a problem is when you let your harvesting skills get way behind the cap and you actually want the materials.

Lilj · 08-10-2007, 08:14 PM

Jesdyr@Unrest wrote:

I am sure everyone has noticed that once your skill cap is increased, you suddenly cannot preform that skill's task very well until your skill is back up to 100% of the cap. No, I haven't noticed that. Why is it that you will never fail to harvest a node with 100/100 mining but that same tier node you will fail 6 out of 10 times to harvest anything because you are now at 100/105? This happens with EVERYTHING in the game. Adventure skills/harvesting/tradeskill are all effected by this. Did you character suddenly forget how to mine rock because he/she suddenly has the potential to get better? Well, they put the no-failure mechanic in if you have max skill in harvesting in quite some time ago, so that is the explanation why you never fail with 100/100. It was put in that way on purpose. Now we come to 2ndary tradeskills. Most people dont start these till "later" when they have a large variance between the cap and their current skill. Anyone who pays attention while crafting can tell the failure rate per tic is much higher when you are not at 100% of cap. When leveling a 2ndary skill you are always below 100% since they are not XP based. This means that these combines are actually much harder than they should be. Yes, I know you really only "need" to get the first bar, but for the "usefull" items you will almost always want to get to the last line (get back as many rares as you can). I honestly don't see a decrease in my success rate when my tradeskillers get a level. It takes about 1-2 combines to get the 5 skill points, so I seriously haven't noticed it. Also, why is it that you tend to gain skills faster by failing? This is more noticeable with harvesting than anything else. Yah I know .. big deal .. it isnt a game breaker. The only time this really causes a problem is when you let your harvesting skills get way behind the cap and you actually want the materials.

I can't say I see what you see. I wonder why our experience differ so much, but perhaps it's an 'eye of the beholder' thing? It doesn't bother me and it doesn't breaks my game as you also say yourself. So why do you bring it up? I mean, do you want a change or are you thinking out loud so to speak? Or just want opinions SMILEY

Calthine · 08-10-2007, 09:27 PM

If you think the whole skill cap thing is broken this post should probably be in a different forum. Gampleplay, maybe? But I've got 100pp on "it's working as intended". If something takes a skill of 105, and your skill is 100, you're not going to be perfect at it. Simple.

ZeroRavesOn · 08-10-2007, 11:08 PM

Calthine wrote:

If you think the whole skill cap thing is broken this post should probably be in a different forum. Gampleplay, maybe? But I've got 100pp on "it's working as intended". If something takes a skill of 105, and your skill is 100, you're not going to be perfect at it. Simple.

I read it more as something that requires, say 95 skill, then you are having better results at 100/100 than at 100/105. But, I haven't noticed that either so I think I'll throw a few plat into that 'eye of the beholder' pot as well.

Vatec · 08-10-2007, 11:59 PM

Yeah, I've noticed it and found it mildly annoying. One second you're cruising along and then all of a sudden, because you went up a level, all of a sudden you're failing again. Silly, but not a game breaker considering it will only take ten minutes to gain the 5 points and cap out again (unless we're talking about safe fall, of course).

ke'la · 08-11-2007, 06:22 AM

Vatec wrote:

Yeah, I've noticed it and found it mildly annoying. One second you're cruising along and then all of a sudden, because you went up a level, all of a sudden you're failing again. Silly, but not a game breaker considering it will only take ten minutes to gain the 5 points and cap out again (unless we're talking about safe fall, of course).

Personally when I am not at the skill cap when harvesting I prefure Missing a harvest to getting one as that gives me one more chance on that node to skill-up.

Jesdyr · 08-11-2007, 04:51 PM

Liljna wrote:

So why do you bring it up? I mean, do you want a change or are you thinking out loud so to speak? Or just want opinions

I actually was thinking about it while noticing a higher than normal failure rate at low levels crafting. This is when you can get a large difference due to leveling so fast (or using the other skills before 10/20 more than your intended class). I then thought about the effects on Tinkering and while talking about it with a friend we found another problem. He 6 boxes the game and his tank spent a good amount of time mentored. It seems that if you level while mentoring your cap "displayed" is +4 not +5 .. You can only get to this "bugged" cap in your skill. However the game still rolls as if you were (example) 134/135 ... He noticed a miss rate about 40% higher than normal (looking at a parse) before he noticed this bug... Once he unmentored and rementored he could get to 135/135 and his miss rate went back down. I posted it here because I think this really only effects Tradeskilling/harvesting in a big way. Edit --- I should note that I am talking about making 1 item ... leveling .. then getting a higher failure on that same item.

Calthine · 08-11-2007, 05:11 PM

Jesdyr@Unrest wrote:

Edit --- I should note that I am talking about making 1 item ... leveling .. then getting a higher failure on that same item.

If you're talking item creation, 5 points one way or the other doesn't make a heckuva lot of difference. Ask anyone who took a racial bonus and no other skill modifiers. It seems to take about 5 levels (25 points) of letting your skill drop below your cap to really start having problems you can't recover from.

Jesdyr · 08-11-2007, 07:47 PM

Calthine wrote:

If you're talking item creation, 5 points one way or the other doesn't make a heckuva lot of difference.

I know that SMILEY

I am talking about 135/135 (ding) 135/140

Calthine · 08-11-2007, 09:32 PM

Jesdyr@Unrest wrote:

Calthine wrote:
If you're talking item creation, 5 points one way or the other doesn't make a heckuva lot of difference.
I know that I am talking about 135/135 (ding) 135/140

Uh-huh. And I'm telling you there is no real difference on creation. AND if you haven't got those 5 points in two or less combines you're applying your Arts in one of the wrong ways.

08-10-2007, 08:14 PM	#2
Lilj General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 766	Jesdyr@Unrest wrote: I am sure everyone has noticed that once your skill cap is increased, you suddenly cannot preform that skill's task very well until your skill is back up to 100% of the cap. No, I haven't noticed that. Why is it that you will never fail to harvest a node with 100/100 mining but that same tier node you will fail 6 out of 10 times to harvest anything because you are now at 100/105? This happens with EVERYTHING in the game. Adventure skills/harvesting/tradeskill are all effected by this. Did you character suddenly forget how to mine rock because he/she suddenly has the potential to get better? Well, they put the no-failure mechanic in if you have max skill in harvesting in quite some time ago, so that is the explanation why you never fail with 100/100. It was put in that way on purpose. Now we come to 2ndary tradeskills. Most people dont start these till "later" when they have a large variance between the cap and their current skill. Anyone who pays attention while crafting can tell the failure rate per tic is much higher when you are not at 100% of cap. When leveling a 2ndary skill you are always below 100% since they are not XP based. This means that these combines are actually much harder than they should be. Yes, I know you really only "need" to get the first bar, but for the "usefull" items you will almost always want to get to the last line (get back as many rares as you can). I honestly don't see a decrease in my success rate when my tradeskillers get a level. It takes about 1-2 combines to get the 5 skill points, so I seriously haven't noticed it. Also, why is it that you tend to gain skills faster by failing? This is more noticeable with harvesting than anything else. Yah I know .. big deal .. it isnt a game breaker. The only time this really causes a problem is when you let your harvesting skills get way behind the cap and you actually want the materials. I can't say I see what you see. I wonder why our experience differ so much, but perhaps it's an 'eye of the beholder' thing? It doesn't bother me and it doesn't breaks my game as you also say yourself. So why do you bring it up? I mean, do you want a change or are you thinking out loud so to speak? Or just want opinions __________________

08-10-2007, 09:27 PM	#3
Calthine ZAM EQII Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,439	If you think the whole skill cap thing is broken this post should probably be in a different forum. Gampleplay, maybe? But I've got 100pp on "it's working as intended". If something takes a skill of 105, and your skill is 100, you're not going to be perfect at it. Simple. __________________ Please visit my non-gaming Blog! or follow me on Twitter!

08-10-2007, 11:08 PM	#4
ZeroRavesOn Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 191	Calthine wrote: If you think the whole skill cap thing is broken this post should probably be in a different forum. Gampleplay, maybe? But I've got 100pp on "it's working as intended". If something takes a skill of 105, and your skill is 100, you're not going to be perfect at it. Simple. I read it more as something that requires, say 95 skill, then you are having better results at 100/100 than at 100/105. But, I haven't noticed that either so I think I'll throw a few plat into that 'eye of the beholder' pot as well. __________________ src="http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2008/Icons/pres_small.png" width="72" height="72" /> src="http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2008/Icons/sen_small.png" width="72" height="72" /> src="http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2008/Icons/house_small.png" width="72" height="72" />

08-10-2007, 11:59 PM	#5
Vatec Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 473	Yeah, I've noticed it and found it mildly annoying. One second you're cruising along and then all of a sudden, because you went up a level, all of a sudden you're failing again. Silly, but not a game breaker considering it will only take ten minutes to gain the 5 points and cap out again (unless we're talking about safe fall, of course). __________________ 54+ Ranger 28+ Berserker, 28+ Troubador, 26+ Fury, 25+ Templar, 25+ Bruiser, 22+ Inquisitor 21+ Dirge, 20+ Paladin, 15+ Conjuror, 14+ Assassin, 14+ Defiler, 13+ Shadowknight and a few others 90 Provisioner, 41+ Woodworker, 34+ Carpenter 41+ Tailor, 30+ Armorer, 29+ Weaponsmith 70+ Jeweler, 51+ Alchemist, 29+ Sage Living and dying on OASIS since 11/09/04

08-11-2007, 06:22 AM	#6
ke'la Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 5,445	Vatec wrote: Yeah, I've noticed it and found it mildly annoying. One second you're cruising along and then all of a sudden, because you went up a level, all of a sudden you're failing again. Silly, but not a game breaker considering it will only take ten minutes to gain the 5 points and cap out again (unless we're talking about safe fall, of course). Personally when I am not at the skill cap when harvesting I prefure Missing a harvest to getting one as that gives me one more chance on that node to skill-up. __________________

08-10-2007, 03:44 PM	#1
Jesdyr Server: Unrest Guild: Curmudgeons Rank: Senior Officer Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 3,710	I am sure everyone has noticed that once your skill cap is increased, you suddenly cannot preform that skill's task very well until your skill is back up to 100% of the cap. Why is it that you will never fail to harvest a node with 100/100 mining but that same tier node you will fail 6 out of 10 times to harvest anything because you are now at 100/105? This happens with EVERYTHING in the game. Adventure skills/harvesting/tradeskill are all effected by this. Did you character suddenly forget how to mine rock because he/she suddenly has the potential to get better? Now we come to 2ndary tradeskills. Most people dont start these till "later" when they have a large variance between the cap and their current skill. Anyone who pays attention while crafting can tell the failure rate per tic is much higher when you are not at 100% of cap. When leveling a 2ndary skill you are always below 100% since they are not XP based. This means that these combines are actually much harder than they should be. Yes, I know you really only "need" to get the first bar, but for the "usefull" items you will almost always want to get to the last line (get back as many rares as you can). Also, why is it that you tend to gain skills faster by failing? This is more noticeable with harvesting than anything else. Yah I know .. big deal .. it isnt a game breaker. The only time this really causes a problem is when you let your harvesting skills get way behind the cap and you actually want the materials.

08-11-2007, 04:51 PM	#7
Jesdyr Server: Unrest Guild: Curmudgeons Rank: Senior Officer Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 3,710	Liljna wrote: So why do you bring it up? I mean, do you want a change or are you thinking out loud so to speak? Or just want opinions I actually was thinking about it while noticing a higher than normal failure rate at low levels crafting. This is when you can get a large difference due to leveling so fast (or using the other skills before 10/20 more than your intended class). I then thought about the effects on Tinkering and while talking about it with a friend we found another problem. He 6 boxes the game and his tank spent a good amount of time mentored. It seems that if you level while mentoring your cap "displayed" is +4 not +5 .. You can only get to this "bugged" cap in your skill. However the game still rolls as if you were (example) 134/135 ... He noticed a miss rate about 40% higher than normal (looking at a parse) before he noticed this bug... Once he unmentored and rementored he could get to 135/135 and his miss rate went back down. I posted it here because I think this really only effects Tradeskilling/harvesting in a big way. Edit --- I should note that I am talking about making 1 item ... leveling .. then getting a higher failure on that same item.

08-11-2007, 05:11 PM	#8
Calthine ZAM EQII Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,439	Jesdyr@Unrest wrote: Edit --- I should note that I am talking about making 1 item ... leveling .. then getting a higher failure on that same item. If you're talking item creation, 5 points one way or the other doesn't make a heckuva lot of difference. Ask anyone who took a racial bonus and no other skill modifiers. It seems to take about 5 levels (25 points) of letting your skill drop below your cap to really start having problems you can't recover from. __________________ Please visit my non-gaming Blog! or follow me on Twitter!

08-11-2007, 07:47 PM	#9
Jesdyr Server: Unrest Guild: Curmudgeons Rank: Senior Officer Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 3,710	Calthine wrote: If you're talking item creation, 5 points one way or the other doesn't make a heckuva lot of difference. I know that I am talking about 135/135 (ding) 135/140

08-11-2007, 09:32 PM	#10
Calthine ZAM EQII Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,439	Jesdyr@Unrest wrote: Calthine wrote: If you're talking item creation, 5 points one way or the other doesn't make a heckuva lot of difference. I know that I am talking about 135/135 (ding) 135/140 Uh-huh. And I'm telling you there is no real difference on creation. AND if you haven't got those 5 points in two or less combines you're applying your Arts in one of the wrong ways. __________________ Please visit my non-gaming Blog! or follow me on Twitter!