Make SS an unlimited pvp zone.

[Rabbitoh]

As the title suggested, make SS a zone where any lvl can be attacked like it use to be.

On Naggy the swams of grey leeches around the docks are is becoming ridiculous. Anything from lvl 20s to 61's are camping the dock area to leech fame off lvl 70 players engaged in decent pvp fights.

If these little leeches want to abuse the lvl restrictiions then i suggest SS be opened upped. There is no reason why it shouldn't be as there are plenty of zones for the nooblets to quest in, now that EoF has been introduced.

Maybe this will stop the x2 of greys that just sit there waiting to leech.

Molok ranger of Vigilante.

[Norrsken]

Rabbitoh wrote:

As the title suggested, make SS a zone where any lvl can be attacked like it use to be.

On Naggy the swams of grey leeches around the docks are is becoming ridiculous. Anything from lvl 20s to 61's are camping the dock area to leech fame off lvl 70 players engaged in decent pvp fights.

If these little leeches want to abuse the lvl restrictiions then i suggest SS be opened upped. There is no reason why it shouldn't be as there are plenty of zones for the nooblets to quest in, now that EoF has been introduced.

Maybe this will stop the x2 of greys that just sit there waiting to leech.

Molok ranger of Vigilante.

or, you know... Go to SS with a lvl appropriate toon? its a t6 zone. you shouldnt be upset if there are lvl 45-61 people there. Thats where they are supposed to hang out. And if the lowbie leech scrubs hit you, smack their face in? I do.

[Amphibia]

I agree completely with the OP.

[Norrsken]

Amphibia wrote:

I agree completely with the OP.

I sure dont. I wasnt very fond of the roaming raids farming grays there before they slapped a lvl cap on the zone.

[Amphibia]

Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:

Amphibia wrote:

I agree completely with the OP.

I sure dont. I wasnt very fond of the roaming raids farming grays there before they slapped a lvl cap on the zone.

Well, then we disagree. I was one of the greys that were farmed there constantly. It was hard, but also a lot of fun because it really felt like a dangerous PvP environment. That's something I miss in this game, it was so much better before they ruined it with perma immunity, safe docks and waaaay too strict level range limits..... And now? Raids of greys who are hanging out to leech... safe in immunity and can attack whenever they feel that it's safe to do so. Whole guilds lock at 58-59 now, so that they can do this constantly. Why even level up and give up those huge advantages? Bleh. In my opinion, they should go ahead and remove that limit again. There is no excuse to keep it there anylonger, espesially with the way it is being abused. And greys getting ganked, what does it matter? They lose nothing. No fame and no items. They don't even get XP debt anymore. No penalites at all... so why do they need all this protection?

[Norrsken]

Amphibia wrote:

Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:

Amphibia wrote:

I agree completely with the OP.

I sure dont. I wasnt very fond of the roaming raids farming grays there before they slapped a lvl cap on the zone.

Well, then we disagree. I was one of the greys that were farmed there constantly. It was hard, but also a lot of fun because it really felt like a dangerous PvP environment. That's something I miss in this game, it was so much better before they ruined it with perma immunity, safe docks and waaaay too strict level range limits..... And now? Raids of greys who are hanging out to leech... safe in immunity and can attack whenever they feel that it's safe to do so. Whole guilds lock at 58-59 now, so that they can do this constantly. Why even level up and give up those huge advantages? Bleh. In my opinion, they should go ahead and remove that limit again. There is no excuse to keep it there anylonger, espesially with the way it is being abused. And greys getting ganked, what does it matter? They lose nothing. No fame and no items. They don't even get XP debt anymore. No penalites at all... so why do they need all this protection?

Or, people at lvl cap could go to lvl cap zones? And yah, I know there arent any good zones since in KoS everyone skydives, and in LP, there is aggro everywhere. But seriously, SS is a t6 zone. Complaining about t5-6 toons being unattackable there seems a bit off. And why arent you getting the same sense of danger with the gray raids? you sure as hell couldnt do anything to the red raids, as you cant to the gray ones. Shoudnt matter much, should it?

[Amphibia]

Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:

Amphibia wrote:

Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:

Amphibia wrote:

I agree completely with the OP.

I sure dont. I wasnt very fond of the roaming raids farming grays there before they slapped a lvl cap on the zone.

Well, then we disagree. I was one of the greys that were farmed there constantly. It was hard, but also a lot of fun because it really felt like a dangerous PvP environment. That's something I miss in this game, it was so much better before they ruined it with perma immunity, safe docks and waaaay too strict level range limits..... And now? Raids of greys who are hanging out to leech... safe in immunity and can attack whenever they feel that it's safe to do so. Whole guilds lock at 58-59 now, so that they can do this constantly. Why even level up and give up those huge advantages? Bleh. In my opinion, they should go ahead and remove that limit again. There is no excuse to keep it there anylonger, espesially with the way it is being abused. And greys getting ganked, what does it matter? They lose nothing. No fame and no items. They don't even get XP debt anymore. No penalites at all... so why do they need all this protection?

Or, people at lvl cap could go to lvl cap zones? And yah, I know there arent any good zones since in KoS everyone skydives, and in LP, there is aggro everywhere. But seriously, SS is a t6 zone. Complaining about t5-6 toons being unattackable there seems a bit off. And why arent you getting the same sense of danger with the gray raids? you sure as hell couldnt do anything to the red raids, as you cant to the gray ones. Shoudnt matter much, should it?

Actually, I'm not a big fan of level range limits in general. And yes, you are right that Loping Plain and KoS sucks for PvP. For the exact reasons you just mentioned. With all the leeching going on, I don't think it is unreasonable at all to ask for something to change. Alternatively, they could make level range limits swing both ways - reds can't attack greys, and greys can't attack reds. Or make red cons as impossible to beat for greys as a red con mob would be. Maybe then they would think twice about attacking... As for the sense of danger, hehe... were you even there? It just doesn't sound as if you were. Of course I couldn't kill the red cons that were hunting me, but I could run... I could outsmart them sometimes, and I actually had to look over my shoulder, which is just fine on a PvP server.

[Norrsken]

Amphibia wrote:

Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:

Amphibia wrote:

Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:

Amphibia wrote:

I agree completely with the OP.

I sure dont. I wasnt very fond of the roaming raids farming grays there before they slapped a lvl cap on the zone.

Well, then we disagree. I was one of the greys that were farmed there constantly. It was hard, but also a lot of fun because it really felt like a dangerous PvP environment. That's something I miss in this game, it was so much better before they ruined it with perma immunity, safe docks and waaaay too strict level range limits..... And now? Raids of greys who are hanging out to leech... safe in immunity and can attack whenever they feel that it's safe to do so. Whole guilds lock at 58-59 now, so that they can do this constantly. Why even level up and give up those huge advantages? Bleh. In my opinion, they should go ahead and remove that limit again. There is no excuse to keep it there anylonger, espesially with the way it is being abused. And greys getting ganked, what does it matter? They lose nothing. No fame and no items. They don't even get XP debt anymore. No penalites at all... so why do they need all this protection?

Or, people at lvl cap could go to lvl cap zones? And yah, I know there arent any good zones since in KoS everyone skydives, and in LP, there is aggro everywhere. But seriously, SS is a t6 zone. Complaining about t5-6 toons being unattackable there seems a bit off. And why arent you getting the same sense of danger with the gray raids? you sure as hell couldnt do anything to the red raids, as you cant to the gray ones. Shoudnt matter much, should it?

Actually, I'm not a big fan of level range limits in general. And yes, you are right that Loping Plain and KoS sucks for PvP. For the exact reasons you just mentioned. With all the leeching going on, I don't think it is unreasonable at all to ask for something to change. Alternatively, they could make level range limits swing both ways - reds can't attack greys, and greys can't attack reds. Or make red cons as impossible to beat for greys as a red con mob would be. Maybe then they would think twice about attacking... As for the sense of danger, hehe... were you even there? It just doesn't sound as if you were. Of course I couldn't kill the red cons that were hunting me, but I could run... I could outsmart them sometimes, and I actually had to look over my shoulder, which is just fine on a PvP server.

Oh yes, I were there. I couldnt get a decent pvp fight woithout a [I cannot control my vocabulary] raid popping in. Actually, the very toon in my sig were the first one to get into that hassle. And if you could outrun the roaming raids, well, you were in luch. What I usually had was a raid dropping from a carpet, snaring or rooting me and then everyone hit their fastest attack to land an attack to get faction before I died. I was usually a 2-3 second ordeal. And oh yeah, the revive ponts and carpets were most of the time camped. It wasnt a sense of danger, it was a sense of utter futility. And hell yeah, make reds more dangerous to grays. Make it near impossible to land stuff on someone 20 lvls above you, then you can take a whack at them while they proceed to oneshot your group one by one. Im perfectly fine with that option. Another option would be to change how pvp works altogether, making levels mean close to nothing apart from the skills you get. Damage is scaled to a specific set (ie mentored to a certain level of effectiveness) so a lvl 70s advantage is just that they ahve more skills, not that their skills do a [Removed for Content] more damage. A lvl 10 will still be severely gimped compared to a lvl 70. And due to everyone having a fair chance (well, not really, if its a lvl 10 vs a lvl 70) just remove level ranges and let the mayhem begin. Perhaps make it so that you wont lose/gain anything of the level spread is greater than 10-15% (decided from the lower level guy). Still, everyone is attackable. More pvp, more fun.

[rvbarton]

Amphibia wrote:

Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:

Amphibia wrote:

I agree completely with the OP.

I sure dont. I wasnt very fond of the roaming raids farming grays there before they slapped a lvl cap on the zone.

Well, then we disagree. I was one of the greys that were farmed there constantly. It was hard, but also a lot of fun because it really felt like a dangerous PvP environment. That's something I miss in this game, it was so much better before they ruined it with perma immunity, safe docks and waaaay too strict level range limits..... And now? Raids of greys who are hanging out to leech... safe in immunity and can attack whenever they feel that it's safe to do so. Whole guilds lock at 58-59 now, so that they can do this constantly. Why even level up and give up those huge advantages? Bleh. In my opinion, they should go ahead and remove that limit again. There is no excuse to keep it there anylonger, espesially with the way it is being abused. And greys getting ganked, what does it matter? They lose nothing. No fame and no items. They don't even get XP debt anymore. No penalites at all... so why do they need all this protection?

go to Loping Plains then... 

[Tarlok]

Most players now don't want to be level 50 questing there and have to deal with the level 70's.  There is no way around going there outside of hunting the t6 zone in eof and you have to go there if you want the free carpet.  I would probably not level past 52 or so if ss was made unlimited again.  Its unfortunate that the expoiters have found a way to leech faction there but as all you leet players are so fond of saying, learn to adapt.

[Amphibia]

Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:

Amphibia wrote:

Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:

Amphibia wrote:

Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:

Amphibia wrote:

I agree completely with the OP.

I sure dont. I wasnt very fond of the roaming raids farming grays there before they slapped a lvl cap on the zone.

Well, then we disagree. I was one of the greys that were farmed there constantly. It was hard, but also a lot of fun because it really felt like a dangerous PvP environment. That's something I miss in this game, it was so much better before they ruined it with perma immunity, safe docks and waaaay too strict level range limits..... And now? Raids of greys who are hanging out to leech... safe in immunity and can attack whenever they feel that it's safe to do so. Whole guilds lock at 58-59 now, so that they can do this constantly. Why even level up and give up those huge advantages? Bleh. In my opinion, they should go ahead and remove that limit again. There is no excuse to keep it there anylonger, espesially with the way it is being abused. And greys getting ganked, what does it matter? They lose nothing. No fame and no items. They don't even get XP debt anymore. No penalites at all... so why do they need all this protection?

Or, people at lvl cap could go to lvl cap zones? And yah, I know there arent any good zones since in KoS everyone skydives, and in LP, there is aggro everywhere. But seriously, SS is a t6 zone. Complaining about t5-6 toons being unattackable there seems a bit off. And why arent you getting the same sense of danger with the gray raids? you sure as hell couldnt do anything to the red raids, as you cant to the gray ones. Shoudnt matter much, should it?

Actually, I'm not a big fan of level range limits in general. And yes, you are right that Loping Plain and KoS sucks for PvP. For the exact reasons you just mentioned. With all the leeching going on, I don't think it is unreasonable at all to ask for something to change. Alternatively, they could make level range limits swing both ways - reds can't attack greys, and greys can't attack reds. Or make red cons as impossible to beat for greys as a red con mob would be. Maybe then they would think twice about attacking... As for the sense of danger, hehe... were you even there? It just doesn't sound as if you were. Of course I couldn't kill the red cons that were hunting me, but I could run... I could outsmart them sometimes, and I actually had to look over my shoulder, which is just fine on a PvP server.

Oh yes, I were there. I couldnt get a decent pvp fight woithout a [I cannot control my vocabulary] raid popping in. Actually, the very toon in my sig were the first one to get into that hassle. And if you could outrun the roaming raids, well, you were in luch. What I usually had was a raid dropping from a carpet, snaring or rooting me and then everyone hit their fastest attack to land an attack to get faction before I died. I was usually a 2-3 second ordeal. And oh yeah, the revive ponts and carpets were most of the time camped. It wasnt a sense of danger, it was a sense of utter futility. And hell yeah, make reds more dangerous to grays. Make it near impossible to land stuff on someone 20 lvls above you, then you can take a whack at them while they proceed to oneshot your group one by one. Im perfectly fine with that option. Another option would be to change how pvp works altogether, making levels mean close to nothing apart from the skills you get. Damage is scaled to a specific set (ie mentored to a certain level of effectiveness) so a lvl 70s advantage is just that they ahve more skills, not that their skills do a [I cannot control my vocabulary] more damage. A lvl 10 will still be severely gimped compared to a lvl 70. And due to everyone having a fair chance (well, not really, if its a lvl 10 vs a lvl 70) just remove level ranges and let the mayhem begin. Perhaps make it so that you wont lose/gain anything of the level spread is greater than 10-15% (decided from the lower level guy). Still, everyone is attackable. More pvp, more fun.

No, I couldn't outrun raids... but I ran from quite a few groups and solo hunters. One will always feel utter futility against raids - at level 70 I still get rolled big time with minimal chances of escape if I come across one of those... Anyway, your idea sounds very interesting.... allthough I'm sure there are issues with it though, as there are issues with everything. Ok, so everyone would be white con to eachother all the way from 10-70 right? But you can see the number behind their name, as today. The first thought I had was that while a level 10 will be able to land spells on me as if we were the same level, I'll be wearing pieces of the level 70 PvP and EoF fabled gear, and have all those skills in adept 3/master 1 version + 100 AA points ... while he has no choice but to wear noob gear and have 2 nukes.... gimped doesn't even begin to describe that, lol. I would probably destroy him without even trying. As for gear and spells scaling... what would they scale to? Not your opponent, that wouldn't work as this game is very faction and group based. But maybe scale with the zone you are in, perhaps? I'm sure none of us sees all the possible issues with this, but before I can think of more problems, or someone else points them out - I think it sounds like a possibly good idea.

[Amphibia]

rvbarton wrote:

go to Loping Plains then... 

Loping Plains is kinda remote and usually empty. There are other reasons for it also. Maybe if you get into the habbit of actually reading a thread before throwing in your 2cp, they might actually be worth concidering. But until then.... not really.

[Norrsken]

Amphibia wrote:

Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:

Amphibia wrote:

Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:

Amphibia wrote:

Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:

Amphibia wrote:

I agree completely with the OP.

I sure dont. I wasnt very fond of the roaming raids farming grays there before they slapped a lvl cap on the zone.

Well, then we disagree. I was one of the greys that were farmed there constantly. It was hard, but also a lot of fun because it really felt like a dangerous PvP environment. That's something I miss in this game, it was so much better before they ruined it with perma immunity, safe docks and waaaay too strict level range limits..... And now? Raids of greys who are hanging out to leech... safe in immunity and can attack whenever they feel that it's safe to do so. Whole guilds lock at 58-59 now, so that they can do this constantly. Why even level up and give up those huge advantages? Bleh. In my opinion, they should go ahead and remove that limit again. There is no excuse to keep it there anylonger, espesially with the way it is being abused. And greys getting ganked, what does it matter? They lose nothing. No fame and no items. They don't even get XP debt anymore. No penalites at all... so why do they need all this protection?

Or, people at lvl cap could go to lvl cap zones? And yah, I know there arent any good zones since in KoS everyone skydives, and in LP, there is aggro everywhere. But seriously, SS is a t6 zone. Complaining about t5-6 toons being unattackable there seems a bit off. And why arent you getting the same sense of danger with the gray raids? you sure as hell couldnt do anything to the red raids, as you cant to the gray ones. Shoudnt matter much, should it?

Actually, I'm not a big fan of level range limits in general. And yes, you are right that Loping Plain and KoS sucks for PvP. For the exact reasons you just mentioned. With all the leeching going on, I don't think it is unreasonable at all to ask for something to change. Alternatively, they could make level range limits swing both ways - reds can't attack greys, and greys can't attack reds. Or make red cons as impossible to beat for greys as a red con mob would be. Maybe then they would think twice about attacking... As for the sense of danger, hehe... were you even there? It just doesn't sound as if you were. Of course I couldn't kill the red cons that were hunting me, but I could run... I could outsmart them sometimes, and I actually had to look over my shoulder, which is just fine on a PvP server.

Oh yes, I were there. I couldnt get a decent pvp fight woithout a [I cannot control my vocabulary] raid popping in. Actually, the very toon in my sig were the first one to get into that hassle. And if you could outrun the roaming raids, well, you were in luch. What I usually had was a raid dropping from a carpet, snaring or rooting me and then everyone hit their fastest attack to land an attack to get faction before I died. I was usually a 2-3 second ordeal. And oh yeah, the revive ponts and carpets were most of the time camped. It wasnt a sense of danger, it was a sense of utter futility. And hell yeah, make reds more dangerous to grays. Make it near impossible to land stuff on someone 20 lvls above you, then you can take a whack at them while they proceed to oneshot your group one by one. Im perfectly fine with that option. Another option would be to change how pvp works altogether, making levels mean close to nothing apart from the skills you get. Damage is scaled to a specific set (ie mentored to a certain level of effectiveness) so a lvl 70s advantage is just that they ahve more skills, not that their skills do a [I cannot control my vocabulary] more damage. A lvl 10 will still be severely gimped compared to a lvl 70. And due to everyone having a fair chance (well, not really, if its a lvl 10 vs a lvl 70) just remove level ranges and let the mayhem begin. Perhaps make it so that you wont lose/gain anything of the level spread is greater than 10-15% (decided from the lower level guy). Still, everyone is attackable. More pvp, more fun.

No, I couldn't outrun raids... but I ran from quite a few groups and solo hunters. One will always feel utter futility against raids - at level 70 I still get rolled big time with minimal chances of escape if I come across one of those... Anyway, your idea sounds very interesting.... allthough I'm sure there are issues with it though, as there are issues with everything. Ok, so everyone would be white con to eachother all the way from 10-70 right? But you can see the number behind their name, as today. The first thought I had was that while a level 10 will be able to land spells on me as if we were the same level, I'll be wearing pieces of the level 70 PvP and EoF fabled gear, and have all those skills in adept 3/master 1 version + 100 AA points ... while he has no choice but to wear noob gear and have 2 nukes.... gimped doesn't even begin to describe that, lol. I would probably destroy him without even trying. As for gear and spells scaling... what would they scale to? Not your opponent, that wouldn't work as this game is very faction and group based. But maybe scale with the zone you are in, perhaps? I'm sure none of us sees all the possible issues with this, but before I can think of more problems, or someone else points them out - I think it sounds like a possibly good idea.

Just use the %. You get the straight % of what the gear gives you. Not the hard stats, or the hard resists, or the hard damage or the hard health. And no, its not impossible to setup a decent scaling system. And how would it be more gimped than a 45 vs a 70, pray tell? And, guess what, I've tried MMOs that utilized such systems. I liked them better than the silly lvl range system of eq2.

[Amphibia]

Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:

Amphibia wrote:

Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:

Amphibia wrote:

Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:

Amphibia wrote:

Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:

Amphibia wrote:

I agree completely with the OP.

I sure dont. I wasnt very fond of the roaming raids farming grays there before they slapped a lvl cap on the zone.

Well, then we disagree. I was one of the greys that were farmed there constantly. It was hard, but also a lot of fun because it really felt like a dangerous PvP environment. That's something I miss in this game, it was so much better before they ruined it with perma immunity, safe docks and waaaay too strict level range limits..... And now? Raids of greys who are hanging out to leech... safe in immunity and can attack whenever they feel that it's safe to do so. Whole guilds lock at 58-59 now, so that they can do this constantly. Why even level up and give up those huge advantages? Bleh. In my opinion, they should go ahead and remove that limit again. There is no excuse to keep it there anylonger, espesially with the way it is being abused. And greys getting ganked, what does it matter? They lose nothing. No fame and no items. They don't even get XP debt anymore. No penalites at all... so why do they need all this protection?

Or, people at lvl cap could go to lvl cap zones? And yah, I know there arent any good zones since in KoS everyone skydives, and in LP, there is aggro everywhere. But seriously, SS is a t6 zone. Complaining about t5-6 toons being unattackable there seems a bit off. And why arent you getting the same sense of danger with the gray raids? you sure as hell couldnt do anything to the red raids, as you cant to the gray ones. Shoudnt matter much, should it?

Actually, I'm not a big fan of level range limits in general. And yes, you are right that Loping Plain and KoS sucks for PvP. For the exact reasons you just mentioned. With all the leeching going on, I don't think it is unreasonable at all to ask for something to change. Alternatively, they could make level range limits swing both ways - reds can't attack greys, and greys can't attack reds. Or make red cons as impossible to beat for greys as a red con mob would be. Maybe then they would think twice about attacking... As for the sense of danger, hehe... were you even there? It just doesn't sound as if you were. Of course I couldn't kill the red cons that were hunting me, but I could run... I could outsmart them sometimes, and I actually had to look over my shoulder, which is just fine on a PvP server.

Oh yes, I were there. I couldnt get a decent pvp fight woithout a [I cannot control my vocabulary] raid popping in. Actually, the very toon in my sig were the first one to get into that hassle. And if you could outrun the roaming raids, well, you were in luch. What I usually had was a raid dropping from a carpet, snaring or rooting me and then everyone hit their fastest attack to land an attack to get faction before I died. I was usually a 2-3 second ordeal. And oh yeah, the revive ponts and carpets were most of the time camped. It wasnt a sense of danger, it was a sense of utter futility. And hell yeah, make reds more dangerous to grays. Make it near impossible to land stuff on someone 20 lvls above you, then you can take a whack at them while they proceed to oneshot your group one by one. Im perfectly fine with that option. Another option would be to change how pvp works altogether, making levels mean close to nothing apart from the skills you get. Damage is scaled to a specific set (ie mentored to a certain level of effectiveness) so a lvl 70s advantage is just that they ahve more skills, not that their skills do a [I cannot control my vocabulary] more damage. A lvl 10 will still be severely gimped compared to a lvl 70. And due to everyone having a fair chance (well, not really, if its a lvl 10 vs a lvl 70) just remove level ranges and let the mayhem begin. Perhaps make it so that you wont lose/gain anything of the level spread is greater than 10-15% (decided from the lower level guy). Still, everyone is attackable. More pvp, more fun.

No, I couldn't outrun raids... but I ran from quite a few groups and solo hunters. One will always feel utter futility against raids - at level 70 I still get rolled big time with minimal chances of escape if I come across one of those... Anyway, your idea sounds very interesting.... allthough I'm sure there are issues with it though, as there are issues with everything. Ok, so everyone would be white con to eachother all the way from 10-70 right? But you can see the number behind their name, as today. The first thought I had was that while a level 10 will be able to land spells on me as if we were the same level, I'll be wearing pieces of the level 70 PvP and EoF fabled gear, and have all those skills in adept 3/master 1 version + 100 AA points ... while he has no choice but to wear noob gear and have 2 nukes.... gimped doesn't even begin to describe that, lol. I would probably destroy him without even trying. As for gear and spells scaling... what would they scale to? Not your opponent, that wouldn't work as this game is very faction and group based. But maybe scale with the zone you are in, perhaps? I'm sure none of us sees all the possible issues with this, but before I can think of more problems, or someone else points them out - I think it sounds like a possibly good idea.

Just use the %. You get the straight % of what the gear gives you. Not the hard stats, or the hard resists, or the hard damage or the hard health. And no, its not impossible to setup a decent scaling system. And how would it be more gimped than a 45 vs a 70, pray tell? And, guess what, I've tried MMOs that utilized such systems. I liked them better than the silly lvl range system of eq2.

Why not just let it scale to the zone? So that if you're level 70 and zone into Antonica, then you're still 70 PvE wise, but to your opponents you are only level 20. In TS, you're 30, in EL you're 40 and so on.... Or did you want it to scale right down to 10 regardless of what zone you're in?

[rvbarton]

Amphibia wrote:

rvbarton wrote:

go to Loping Plains then... 

Loping Plains is kinda remote and usually empty. There are other reasons for it also. Maybe if you get into the habbit of actually reading a thread before throwing in your 2cp, they might actually be worth concidering. But until then.... not really.

aww.  did I strike a nerve?  Poor baby.  Can't leech fame anymore and can't kill those that leech off of you?    Poor baby.

[Norrsken]

Amphibia wrote:

Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:

Amphibia wrote:

Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:

Amphibia wrote:

Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:

Amphibia wrote:

Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:

Amphibia wrote:

I agree completely with the OP.

I sure dont. I wasnt very fond of the roaming raids farming grays there before they slapped a lvl cap on the zone.

Well, then we disagree. I was one of the greys that were farmed there constantly. It was hard, but also a lot of fun because it really felt like a dangerous PvP environment. That's something I miss in this game, it was so much better before they ruined it with perma immunity, safe docks and waaaay too strict level range limits..... And now? Raids of greys who are hanging out to leech... safe in immunity and can attack whenever they feel that it's safe to do so. Whole guilds lock at 58-59 now, so that they can do this constantly. Why even level up and give up those huge advantages? Bleh. In my opinion, they should go ahead and remove that limit again. There is no excuse to keep it there anylonger, espesially with the way it is being abused. And greys getting ganked, what does it matter? They lose nothing. No fame and no items. They don't even get XP debt anymore. No penalites at all... so why do they need all this protection?

Or, people at lvl cap could go to lvl cap zones? And yah, I know there arent any good zones since in KoS everyone skydives, and in LP, there is aggro everywhere. But seriously, SS is a t6 zone. Complaining about t5-6 toons being unattackable there seems a bit off. And why arent you getting the same sense of danger with the gray raids? you sure as hell couldnt do anything to the red raids, as you cant to the gray ones. Shoudnt matter much, should it?

Actually, I'm not a big fan of level range limits in general. And yes, you are right that Loping Plain and KoS sucks for PvP. For the exact reasons you just mentioned. With all the leeching going on, I don't think it is unreasonable at all to ask for something to change. Alternatively, they could make level range limits swing both ways - reds can't attack greys, and greys can't attack reds. Or make red cons as impossible to beat for greys as a red con mob would be. Maybe then they would think twice about attacking... As for the sense of danger, hehe... were you even there? It just doesn't sound as if you were. Of course I couldn't kill the red cons that were hunting me, but I could run... I could outsmart them sometimes, and I actually had to look over my shoulder, which is just fine on a PvP server.

Oh yes, I were there. I couldnt get a decent pvp fight woithout a [I cannot control my vocabulary] raid popping in. Actually, the very toon in my sig were the first one to get into that hassle. And if you could outrun the roaming raids, well, you were in luch. What I usually had was a raid dropping from a carpet, snaring or rooting me and then everyone hit their fastest attack to land an attack to get faction before I died. I was usually a 2-3 second ordeal. And oh yeah, the revive ponts and carpets were most of the time camped. It wasnt a sense of danger, it was a sense of utter futility. And hell yeah, make reds more dangerous to grays. Make it near impossible to land stuff on someone 20 lvls above you, then you can take a whack at them while they proceed to oneshot your group one by one. Im perfectly fine with that option. Another option would be to change how pvp works altogether, making levels mean close to nothing apart from the skills you get. Damage is scaled to a specific set (ie mentored to a certain level of effectiveness) so a lvl 70s advantage is just that they ahve more skills, not that their skills do a [I cannot control my vocabulary] more damage. A lvl 10 will still be severely gimped compared to a lvl 70. And due to everyone having a fair chance (well, not really, if its a lvl 10 vs a lvl 70) just remove level ranges and let the mayhem begin. Perhaps make it so that you wont lose/gain anything of the level spread is greater than 10-15% (decided from the lower level guy). Still, everyone is attackable. More pvp, more fun.

No, I couldn't outrun raids... but I ran from quite a few groups and solo hunters. One will always feel utter futility against raids - at level 70 I still get rolled big time with minimal chances of escape if I come across one of those... Anyway, your idea sounds very interesting.... allthough I'm sure there are issues with it though, as there are issues with everything. Ok, so everyone would be white con to eachother all the way from 10-70 right? But you can see the number behind their name, as today. The first thought I had was that while a level 10 will be able to land spells on me as if we were the same level, I'll be wearing pieces of the level 70 PvP and EoF fabled gear, and have all those skills in adept 3/master 1 version + 100 AA points ... while he has no choice but to wear noob gear and have 2 nukes.... gimped doesn't even begin to describe that, lol. I would probably destroy him without even trying. As for gear and spells scaling... what would they scale to? Not your opponent, that wouldn't work as this game is very faction and group based. But maybe scale with the zone you are in, perhaps? I'm sure none of us sees all the possible issues with this, but before I can think of more problems, or someone else points them out - I think it sounds like a possibly good idea.

Just use the %. You get the straight % of what the gear gives you. Not the hard stats, or the hard resists, or the hard damage or the hard health. And no, its not impossible to setup a decent scaling system. And how would it be more gimped than a 45 vs a 70, pray tell? And, guess what, I've tried MMOs that utilized such systems. I liked them better than the silly lvl range system of eq2.

Why not just let it scale to the zone? So that if you're level 70 and zone into Antonica, then you're still 70 PvE wise, but to your opponents you are only level 20. In TS, you're 30, in EL you're 40 and so on.... Or did you want it to scale right down to 10 regardless of what zone you're in?

No, I want the PvP and PvE systems (almost) completely separated. Normalize the damage for spells to a fixed level of pve, or whatever. Just normalize it to a fixed point. All the spells of the same line will always do the same damage in pvp. The only advantage gained from more pve levels would be more skills to toy with. Not greater damage, or ten times the health and so on. That way, no level ranges would ever be needed (removing some silly stunts people pull to circumvent them), level locking would be a thing of the past and mentoring wouldnt be a problem in pvp. Quite a few odd things would go away. (And we would prolly gain a few new ones) Some problems would be heals. How would you decide if the pvp or pve version would be applied? Because having pvp heals in pve would either be vastly overpowered, or completely gimpified. And using pve heals would be the same deal. Largest problem with the whole concept really. And Im still thinking about that one. Automatic mentoring to the level at hand would probably be neat as well, if they ever fix mentoring. Only thing I see as a potential problem with that is people exploiting holes in it. that and always bringing raids of people 4 or 8 levels above you. But meh. That would serve to make levellocking more dangerous and the lower tiers more full of action so I dont mind that too much.

[Amphibia]

rvbarton wrote:

Amphibia wrote:

rvbarton wrote:

go to Loping Plains then... 

Loping Plains is kinda remote and usually empty. There are other reasons for it also. Maybe if you get into the habbit of actually reading a thread before throwing in your 2cp, they might actually be worth concidering. But until then.... not really.

aww.  did I strike a nerve?  Poor baby.  Can't leech fame anymore and can't kill those that leech off of you?    Poor baby.

Yeah, poor poor me... can't leech anymore.... Anyway, I appreaciate your contribution to this discussion, and I'm sure everyone who reads it will take your thoughts into concideration. Thank you for sharing!

[Norrsken]

Amphibia wrote:

rvbarton wrote:

Amphibia wrote:

rvbarton wrote:

go to Loping Plains then... 

Loping Plains is kinda remote and usually empty. There are other reasons for it also. Maybe if you get into the habbit of actually reading a thread before throwing in your 2cp, they might actually be worth concidering. But until then.... not really.

aww.  did I strike a nerve?  Poor baby.  Can't leech fame anymore and can't kill those that leech off of you?    Poor baby.

Yeah, poor poor me... can't leech anymore.... Anyway, I appreaciate your contribution to this discussion, and I'm sure everyone who reads it will take your thoughts into concideration. Thank you for sharing!

Lol irl. Good comeback.

[Bi]

no offense lyea /rvbarton, but were you dropped on your head as a small child from a great height? because it certainly looks like this is the case

[Amphibia]

Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:

Amphibia wrote:

Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:

Amphibia wrote:

Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:

Amphibia wrote:

Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:

Amphibia wrote:

Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:

Amphibia wrote:

I agree completely with the OP.

I sure dont. I wasnt very fond of the roaming raids farming grays there before they slapped a lvl cap on the zone.

Well, then we disagree. I was one of the greys that were farmed there constantly. It was hard, but also a lot of fun because it really felt like a dangerous PvP environment. That's something I miss in this game, it was so much better before they ruined it with perma immunity, safe docks and waaaay too strict level range limits..... And now? Raids of greys who are hanging out to leech... safe in immunity and can attack whenever they feel that it's safe to do so. Whole guilds lock at 58-59 now, so that they can do this constantly. Why even level up and give up those huge advantages? Bleh. In my opinion, they should go ahead and remove that limit again. There is no excuse to keep it there anylonger, espesially with the way it is being abused. And greys getting ganked, what does it matter? They lose nothing. No fame and no items. They don't even get XP debt anymore. No penalites at all... so why do they need all this protection?

Or, people at lvl cap could go to lvl cap zones? And yah, I know there arent any good zones since in KoS everyone skydives, and in LP, there is aggro everywhere. But seriously, SS is a t6 zone. Complaining about t5-6 toons being unattackable there seems a bit off. And why arent you getting the same sense of danger with the gray raids? you sure as hell couldnt do anything to the red raids, as you cant to the gray ones. Shoudnt matter much, should it?

Actually, I'm not a big fan of level range limits in general. And yes, you are right that Loping Plain and KoS sucks for PvP. For the exact reasons you just mentioned. With all the leeching going on, I don't think it is unreasonable at all to ask for something to change. Alternatively, they could make level range limits swing both ways - reds can't attack greys, and greys can't attack reds. Or make red cons as impossible to beat for greys as a red con mob would be. Maybe then they would think twice about attacking... As for the sense of danger, hehe... were you even there? It just doesn't sound as if you were. Of course I couldn't kill the red cons that were hunting me, but I could run... I could outsmart them sometimes, and I actually had to look over my shoulder, which is just fine on a PvP server.

Oh yes, I were there. I couldnt get a decent pvp fight woithout a [I cannot control my vocabulary] raid popping in. Actually, the very toon in my sig were the first one to get into that hassle. And if you could outrun the roaming raids, well, you were in luch. What I usually had was a raid dropping from a carpet, snaring or rooting me and then everyone hit their fastest attack to land an attack to get faction before I died. I was usually a 2-3 second ordeal. And oh yeah, the revive ponts and carpets were most of the time camped. It wasnt a sense of danger, it was a sense of utter futility. And hell yeah, make reds more dangerous to grays. Make it near impossible to land stuff on someone 20 lvls above you, then you can take a whack at them while they proceed to oneshot your group one by one. Im perfectly fine with that option. Another option would be to change how pvp works altogether, making levels mean close to nothing apart from the skills you get. Damage is scaled to a specific set (ie mentored to a certain level of effectiveness) so a lvl 70s advantage is just that they ahve more skills, not that their skills do a [I cannot control my vocabulary] more damage. A lvl 10 will still be severely gimped compared to a lvl 70. And due to everyone having a fair chance (well, not really, if its a lvl 10 vs a lvl 70) just remove level ranges and let the mayhem begin. Perhaps make it so that you wont lose/gain anything of the level spread is greater than 10-15% (decided from the lower level guy). Still, everyone is attackable. More pvp, more fun.

No, I couldn't outrun raids... but I ran from quite a few groups and solo hunters. One will always feel utter futility against raids - at level 70 I still get rolled big time with minimal chances of escape if I come across one of those... Anyway, your idea sounds very interesting.... allthough I'm sure there are issues with it though, as there are issues with everything. Ok, so everyone would be white con to eachother all the way from 10-70 right? But you can see the number behind their name, as today. The first thought I had was that while a level 10 will be able to land spells on me as if we were the same level, I'll be wearing pieces of the level 70 PvP and EoF fabled gear, and have all those skills in adept 3/master 1 version + 100 AA points ... while he has no choice but to wear noob gear and have 2 nukes.... gimped doesn't even begin to describe that, lol. I would probably destroy him without even trying. As for gear and spells scaling... what would they scale to? Not your opponent, that wouldn't work as this game is very faction and group based. But maybe scale with the zone you are in, perhaps? I'm sure none of us sees all the possible issues with this, but before I can think of more problems, or someone else points them out - I think it sounds like a possibly good idea.

Just use the %. You get the straight % of what the gear gives you. Not the hard stats, or the hard resists, or the hard damage or the hard health. And no, its not impossible to setup a decent scaling system. And how would it be more gimped than a 45 vs a 70, pray tell? And, guess what, I've tried MMOs that utilized such systems. I liked them better than the silly lvl range system of eq2.

Why not just let it scale to the zone? So that if you're level 70 and zone into Antonica, then you're still 70 PvE wise, but to your opponents you are only level 20. In TS, you're 30, in EL you're 40 and so on.... Or did you want it to scale right down to 10 regardless of what zone you're in?

No, I want the PvP and PvE systems (almost) completely separated. Normalize the damage for spells to a fixed level of pve, or whatever. Just normalize it to a fixed point. All the spells of the same line will always do the same damage in pvp. The only advantage gained from more pve levels would be more skills to toy with. Not greater damage, or ten times the health and so on. That way, no level ranges would ever be needed (removing some silly stunts people pull to circumvent them), level locking would be a thing of the past and mentoring wouldnt be a problem in pvp. Quite a few odd things would go away. (And we would prolly gain a few new ones) Some problems would be heals. How would you decide if the pvp or pve version would be applied? Because having pvp heals in pve would either be vastly overpowered, or completely gimpified. And using pve heals would be the same deal. Largest problem with the whole concept really. And Im still thinking about that one. Automatic mentoring to the level at hand would probably be neat as well, if they ever fix mentoring. Only thing I see as a potential problem with that is people exploiting holes in it. that and always bringing raids of people 4 or 8 levels above you. But meh. That would serve to make levellocking more dangerous and the lower tiers more full of action so I dont mind that too much.

That doesn't sound so bad at all, actually. As for heals, they are already toned down some for PvP, and yeah... sometimes that can probably be an issue if you're doing a mob and get jumped etc...

[Norrsken]

Amphibia wrote:

Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:

Amphibia wrote:

Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:

Amphibia wrote:

Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:

Amphibia wrote:

Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:

Amphibia wrote:

Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:

Amphibia wrote:

I agree completely with the OP.

I sure dont. I wasnt very fond of the roaming raids farming grays there before they slapped a lvl cap on the zone.

Well, then we disagree. I was one of the greys that were farmed there constantly. It was hard, but also a lot of fun because it really felt like a dangerous PvP environment. That's something I miss in this game, it was so much better before they ruined it with perma immunity, safe docks and waaaay too strict level range limits..... And now? Raids of greys who are hanging out to leech... safe in immunity and can attack whenever they feel that it's safe to do so. Whole guilds lock at 58-59 now, so that they can do this constantly. Why even level up and give up those huge advantages? Bleh. In my opinion, they should go ahead and remove that limit again. There is no excuse to keep it there anylonger, espesially with the way it is being abused. And greys getting ganked, what does it matter? They lose nothing. No fame and no items. They don't even get XP debt anymore. No penalites at all... so why do they need all this protection?

Or, people at lvl cap could go to lvl cap zones? And yah, I know there arent any good zones since in KoS everyone skydives, and in LP, there is aggro everywhere. But seriously, SS is a t6 zone. Complaining about t5-6 toons being unattackable there seems a bit off. And why arent you getting the same sense of danger with the gray raids? you sure as hell couldnt do anything to the red raids, as you cant to the gray ones. Shoudnt matter much, should it?

Actually, I'm not a big fan of level range limits in general. And yes, you are right that Loping Plain and KoS sucks for PvP. For the exact reasons you just mentioned. With all the leeching going on, I don't think it is unreasonable at all to ask for something to change. Alternatively, they could make level range limits swing both ways - reds can't attack greys, and greys can't attack reds. Or make red cons as impossible to beat for greys as a red con mob would be. Maybe then they would think twice about attacking... As for the sense of danger, hehe... were you even there? It just doesn't sound as if you were. Of course I couldn't kill the red cons that were hunting me, but I could run... I could outsmart them sometimes, and I actually had to look over my shoulder, which is just fine on a PvP server.

Oh yes, I were there. I couldnt get a decent pvp fight woithout a [I cannot control my vocabulary] raid popping in. Actually, the very toon in my sig were the first one to get into that hassle. And if you could outrun the roaming raids, well, you were in luch. What I usually had was a raid dropping from a carpet, snaring or rooting me and then everyone hit their fastest attack to land an attack to get faction before I died. I was usually a 2-3 second ordeal. And oh yeah, the revive ponts and carpets were most of the time camped. It wasnt a sense of danger, it was a sense of utter futility. And hell yeah, make reds more dangerous to grays. Make it near impossible to land stuff on someone 20 lvls above you, then you can take a whack at them while they proceed to oneshot your group one by one. Im perfectly fine with that option. Another option would be to change how pvp works altogether, making levels mean close to nothing apart from the skills you get. Damage is scaled to a specific set (ie mentored to a certain level of effectiveness) so a lvl 70s advantage is just that they ahve more skills, not that their skills do a [I cannot control my vocabulary] more damage. A lvl 10 will still be severely gimped compared to a lvl 70. And due to everyone having a fair chance (well, not really, if its a lvl 10 vs a lvl 70) just remove level ranges and let the mayhem begin. Perhaps make it so that you wont lose/gain anything of the level spread is greater than 10-15% (decided from the lower level guy). Still, everyone is attackable. More pvp, more fun.

No, I couldn't outrun raids... but I ran from quite a few groups and solo hunters. One will always feel utter futility against raids - at level 70 I still get rolled big time with minimal chances of escape if I come across one of those... Anyway, your idea sounds very interesting.... allthough I'm sure there are issues with it though, as there are issues with everything. Ok, so everyone would be white con to eachother all the way from 10-70 right? But you can see the number behind their name, as today. The first thought I had was that while a level 10 will be able to land spells on me as if we were the same level, I'll be wearing pieces of the level 70 PvP and EoF fabled gear, and have all those skills in adept 3/master 1 version + 100 AA points ... while he has no choice but to wear noob gear and have 2 nukes.... gimped doesn't even begin to describe that, lol. I would probably destroy him without even trying. As for gear and spells scaling... what would they scale to? Not your opponent, that wouldn't work as this game is very faction and group based. But maybe scale with the zone you are in, perhaps? I'm sure none of us sees all the possible issues with this, but before I can think of more problems, or someone else points them out - I think it sounds like a possibly good idea.

Just use the %. You get the straight % of what the gear gives you. Not the hard stats, or the hard resists, or the hard damage or the hard health. And no, its not impossible to setup a decent scaling system. And how would it be more gimped than a 45 vs a 70, pray tell? And, guess what, I've tried MMOs that utilized such systems. I liked them better than the silly lvl range system of eq2.

Why not just let it scale to the zone? So that if you're level 70 and zone into Antonica, then you're still 70 PvE wise, but to your opponents you are only level 20. In TS, you're 30, in EL you're 40 and so on.... Or did you want it to scale right down to 10 regardless of what zone you're in?

No, I want the PvP and PvE systems (almost) completely separated. Normalize the damage for spells to a fixed level of pve, or whatever. Just normalize it to a fixed point. All the spells of the same line will always do the same damage in pvp. The only advantage gained from more pve levels would be more skills to toy with. Not greater damage, or ten times the health and so on. That way, no level ranges would ever be needed (removing some silly stunts people pull to circumvent them), level locking would be a thing of the past and mentoring wouldnt be a problem in pvp. Quite a few odd things would go away. (And we would prolly gain a few new ones) Some problems would be heals. How would you decide if the pvp or pve version would be applied? Because having pvp heals in pve would either be vastly overpowered, or completely gimpified. And using pve heals would be the same deal. Largest problem with the whole concept really. And Im still thinking about that one. Automatic mentoring to the level at hand would probably be neat as well, if they ever fix mentoring. Only thing I see as a potential problem with that is people exploiting holes in it. that and always bringing raids of people 4 or 8 levels above you. But meh. That would serve to make levellocking more dangerous and the lower tiers more full of action so I dont mind that too much.

That doesn't sound so bad at all, actually. As for heals, they are already toned down some for PvP, and yeah... sometimes that can probably be an issue if you're doing a mob and get jumped etc...

Yah, and if you decide to normalize heals for say, 10k of health, using those heals in t2 pve, ugh. The other way around would be normalizing heals for a 500 health pool. Imagine trying to use those heals in t7 pve. holds tru if you turn it around the other way as well. Which is kindof bothering me. (Even the current pvp implementation suffers from this to a lesser extent.)

[rvbarton]

Amphibia wrote:

rvbarton wrote:

Amphibia wrote:

rvbarton wrote:

go to Loping Plains then... 

Loping Plains is kinda remote and usually empty. There are other reasons for it also. Maybe if you get into the habbit of actually reading a thread before throwing in your 2cp, they might actually be worth concidering. But until then.... not really.

aww.  did I strike a nerve?  Poor baby.  Can't leech fame anymore and can't kill those that leech off of you?    Poor baby.

Yeah, poor poor me... can't leech anymore.... Anyway, I appreaciate your contribution to this discussion, and I'm sure everyone who reads it will take your thoughts into concideration. Thank you for sharing!

No, thank YOU for sharing!  I feel so much more enlightened after reading your pearls of wisdom!  Thank MARR you are there to direct us with your logic & perserverance!  We are all sincerely in your debt.

 /sarcasm off

[jam3]

lol this is funny all the t6 people saying no dont change it back or no i will never get to 70. Long ago before level locking was a huge craze tons of people dealt with a unlimited level range sure your gonna die from 70s farming faction DEAL with it. 10 level range is stupid everyday i see more and more level 58-59 generals that sit on the ss docks, they dont pvp they wait til a 70 vs 70 fight happens and they use one CA and get some fame and status, they leech its stupid fix this [I cannot control my vocabulary] hell sometimes there level 15 dreadnaughts or something ..

[1800Gambler]

Bring back the carnage flag.... just make it so that if u r gray and attack someone out of the level range of the zone you become carnaged flagged. And with the new carnage flag make it the same as entering combat :no zoning, flying, etc. and stays 10 mins or so until the flag is gone. Flag goes away with death. This way if they want to leech fame they will be flagged and will be taken care of. If a person is leveling in the zone and they dont attack a red they wont be in danger of anyone out of there level range. Bring Back The Carnage to the PVP server.

[Bloodfa]

Big fan of Carnage.  Works wonders. 

SS when I was in the high 40's was an adrenaline high from zone-in to zone-out.  If the NPC's didn't get you, the red SK on his nightmare would.  Fun times...

[jam3]

1800Gambler wrote:

Bring back the carnage flag.... just make it so that if u r gray and attack someone out of the level range of the zone you become carnaged flagged. And with the new carnage flag make it the same as entering combat :no zoning, flying, etc. and stays 10 mins or so until the flag is gone. Flag goes away with death. This way if they want to leech fame they will be flagged and will be taken care of. If a person is leveling in the zone and they dont attack a red they wont be in danger of anyone out of there level range. Bring Back The Carnage to the PVP server.

this works.

[Somatic]

Greys don't hang out in SS, and they would never leech fame.  What are u talking about.

[Armironhead]

Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote:

Big fan of Carnage.  Works wonders. 

SS when I was in the high 40's was an adrenaline high from zone-in to zone-out.  If the NPC's didn't get you, the red SK on his nightmare would.  Fun times...

I so agree with this.  SS was the only true ffa area in the game since lower lvls can't really compete in kos (or lop now) because of the pve.  It was much more exciting trying to complete ur quests not knowing when some red q was going to try and stomp on u. And then, after you were killed, you would grab an ad hoc grp of fpers to pull down the guy who just did u in.  Much more fun then it is now.

[Bloodfa]

Armironhead@Vox wrote:

Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote:

Big fan of Carnage.  Works wonders. 

SS when I was in the high 40's was an adrenaline high from zone-in to zone-out.  If the NPC's didn't get you, the red SK on his nightmare would.  Fun times...

I so agree with this.  SS was the only true ffa area in the game since lower lvls can't really compete in kos (or lop now) because of the pve.  It was much more exciting trying to complete ur quests not knowing when some red q was going to try and stomp on u. And then, after you were killed, you would grab an ad hoc grp of fpers to pull down the guy who just did u in.  Much more fun then it is now.

The best pick-up groups were the ones looking for payback.  And that feeling of "Holy crap, we got him!" more than made up for all the "Aw, nuts, here he comes again ... "

__________________

[shagr1414]

Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:

Amphibia wrote:

I agree completely with the OP.

I sure dont. I wasnt very fond of the roaming raids farming grays there before they slapped a lvl cap on the zone.

Well a lvl 60 is grey in that zone to z 70, but i think what the OP means is more or less, the people who drag a lvl 20ish char there to hit you one time and gain fame for it if another worthy opponent kills you.  Actually there is a simple fix for this whole thing. Just make it so if the player you are attacking is red to you and cannot openly attack you first since you are grey to them, simply make it so they receive no fame or status or anyhting. Just make it not worth their time to interfere with a fight they would normally lose.  There is no justified reason for a lvl 20 character to be in a t6 zone. I've found a pretty simple way to remove these people from the area of the docks though. as a necro i can charm one of the ^^^ spectre's at the tower near the dock.  Bring it to he docks and release/FD, cleans them out nicely.