Please fix beginning Transmuting for evil characters

[Dwelian]

I sent in a bug report for this, but I'm hoping to get lucky and have someone read this that can fix it, since my report might not be considered a bug and get blackholed. I submit that the secondary tradeskill of Transmuting is crushingly hard (too much so) for Evil characters to get started in.  This is because: (*)  If you don't start in Greater Faydark, you are expected to be about level 20 when picking up Transmuting, because it's in Butcherblock, a level 20-30 zone off of other level 20-30 zones. (*)  When you train Transmuting, you get a skill of one, which only allows you to transmute level 1-5 items.  And this is the only way to skill up, since you don't have any materials to skill up on making things. (*)  If you didn't know this when choosing Transmuting , you won't have a supply of level 1-5 items available to you, and you have only one way to get them:  Via making "rares".   Trivial loot gives you no chests (which are rare to begin with) and you've outleveled and may no longer receive any quests that are "too grey". (*)  Thus the only way to skill up is to either make an alt and farm chests, or harvest rares, both of which are clearly excessive.  Assuming you got a point on every item (which is certainly not the case), you'd still need 50 lower level items before you're able to transmute anything you're likely to see at  your current level. (*)  So if you're Evil, Transmuting is Way Too Hard to get started in. Developers, please do something about this.

[FahlenCryptwalk]

You can easily get to the trainer at level 1 even on evil characters - buy a ticket at the Freeport docks to either the Nektulous or Thundering Steppes docks, and then wait for the boat to Butcherblock.. the trainer is right there at the Butcherblock docks.

[Calthine]

Yep, like it was said above - all you need to become an evil transmuter is 60s.  There's absolutely no agro.  I'll add that to my guides, however.

[Liyle]

Coincidentally, we ran into this last night with my husband's level 8 in Neriak. We had never done much with Transmuting/Tinkering but decided that we would get into it with our new RP characters on AB. It hadn't occurred to us how much stuff we would need to farm and we assumed that we could pick up the skills starter in Neriak. By the time we realized that we need to get to Nek docks we were almost beyond the point where we could even get chest drops of the appropriate level to start. Since these are the first RP server characters we have made, they have no guild, no alts and no money. Needless to say, shelling out even 1g per item for transmutables is not an option so we have to farm each and every piece. Luckily we found out that we had to go to Butcher before we had leveled out of any chance to get the rest of what we needed. The things we had saved up helped him get to where he could transmute level 7, but there is only so much stuff you can warehouse in elm strongboxes. It would be a good thing to stress that you really need to make the trip to Butcher before the lowest level mobs you will need turn grey and no longer drop the chests you need. Remember that the span to grey is very short for under 10. As far as I can tell, if you get to level 10 and have not started with transmuting you are stuck either hunting mentor targets (and hoping to lotto on the loot) or farming for rares. Or rerolling. BTW, making the trip from Neriak to Butcher is not a trivial ordeal for a level 8 who knows the ropes, so I would hate to try it as  someone who has never played EQ2 before. And BTW, getting a ticket in Neriak (once you have raised the 60s) drops you at the spires, not the docks, in TS! Oops on us! I'm not saying that we had a terrible time of it. Our experience with the game was more than enough to get us by, but if we had waited another level or 2 it would have been much much harder.

[Mystfit]

Hmm...Neriak, yah, that would be a tiny bit trickier..lemme think...course you have to KNOW these things and a new player may not....Neriak ---> DLW--->carpet to Ro--->carpet back to FP--->EFP docks to buy the ticket to Nek or TS to boat. Call home when done Can be done, if the player knows the zones or gets agood response when he sends out a level query "Can I get there from here!!!"

[Rijacki]

I will admit to knowing I would need to get to the transmute trainer early, but I had -no- problem getting my Coercer Arasai to Butcherblock without even using the teleportation to the spires.  I went through Darklight Woods to Nek Forest and the whole way through the forest by foot.  I survived easily.  I'm not positive what level, but I think it was around 6 or 8, 10 at the latest.  I also was stockpiling all my unused drops and any gear I replaced until I got the training.  Now, I've been stockpiling all my fragments and powders until I have to start the crafting. I've been leveling her slowly mostly because I haven't been playing her much, but I combat XP locked her at 20 so my boyfriend could catch up his Inquisitor if he wants.

[Gralthak]

Mystfit wrote:

Hmm...Neriak, yah, that would be a tiny bit trickier..lemme think...course you have to KNOW these things and a new player may not....Neriak ---> DLW--->carpet to Ro--->carpet back to FP--->EFP docks to buy the ticket to Nek or TS to boat. Call home when done Can be done, if the player knows the zones or gets agood response when he sends out a level query "Can I get there from here!!!"

Alternately you can just buy a ticket to Nektulos from the teleporter hub in the Dockside Markets and skip about five of your steps.

[Dwelian]

Mystfit wrote:

Hmm...Neriak, yah, that would be a tiny bit trickier..lemme think...

Just as an FYI, there is a merchant in Neriak that sells the 60 silver tickets to the Nektulos and Thundering Steppes docks.  They're in the same building as a Neriak teleporter.  [EDIT:  Sorry, my mistake.  I just assumed that they went to the docks since that's where the same-looking tickets in Qeynos went.] To all that have responded in this thread:  Please bear in mind that you've essentially all just posted workarounds for the problem, which is a good indicator that something is broken.   My transmuter is my highest level and only real character on the server, so 60 silver is still a lot of money to me.  I couldn't have spent it at level 5 because I didn't have it.   I also didn't know about the item level limit until I read Calthine's guide, and I only read the guide because I couldn't get transmuting to work on anything. Now I'm stuck with a tradeskill that I've spent over 1g on (yes, I know 1g is a joke to you, but I only have 5g to my name) that I can't skill up in.  I'd like to save other newbies that grief.

[Mystfit]

Dwelian wrote:

Mystfit wrote:

Hmm...Neriak, yah, that would be a tiny bit trickier..lemme think...

Just as an FYI, there is a merchant in Neriak that sells the 60 silver tickets to the Nektulos and Thundering Steppes docks.  They're in the same building as a Neriak teleporter.

Realllly..I thought that dropped you off at the spires deep in the zone? My Neriak character doesn't play much, so I must have missed it.

And, though it may be diffucult, I'm not sure broken is the right word, but that's jsut semantics really and not a fight I wanna pick sides on

[dartie]

Like the other players who posted here, I had no difficulty getting my Arasai to BBM for training when the expansion came out. 

Still, it puzzled me that the transmuting and tinkering trainer were so easy to find in Kelethin and so non-existent in Neriak. 

New players who want to pick up transmuting and start in Kelethin can mung their very first quest reward if they like.  (I've stopped the buzzies from making owwies, little girl.  Now let me see if your token of appreciation will yield some ulteran powder!) 

Unless I'm mistaken, new players in Qeynos, Freeport, and Neriak all need to make a long haul to BBM (or Kelethin) for training in a 2ndary class. 

Nope, the long haul isn't dangerous.

Nope, it's not terribly expensive (though I agree that my first char could easily have spent a week trying to scrape together 60 silver for a boat ride, since I didn't understand how to use the broker).

Nope, it's not a bad idea for folks to learn their way around Norrath.

But I can't help wondering why Kelethin is so much more newb friendly than the other starting locations.  Here's an L&L quest for you!  Here is the tinkering trainer!  Here's a transmuting trainer!  Here's a broker!  And there's another broker!  And there's another broker standing right next to the Starbucks!  Would you like a free cup of coffee?  Here, this person will hold your coffee for you while you craft.  She will also sell you books and fuel and buy back your vendor trash.  You don't have to zone in or zone out here!  This is Kelethin, where we blend crafting, secondary crafting, the noob training area, an adventure map, and a fully developed city all into one seamless experience. 

I agree that the workarounds are easy enough for experienced players, but I think those who are just discovering the game are worlds better off in Kelethin than in Neriak. 

That doesn't particularly bother me (since I think balance is overrated by devs and players), but I do wonder why the game is set up to make a fae so much more noob-friendly than a kerra or an ogre or an arasai.

[Raveller]

We certainly do have an endless supply of people who would rather whine about the stupidest things rather than spending a few minutes of actually playing the game.

[Mystfit]

**

Unless I'm mistaken, new players in Qeynos, Freeport, and Neriak all need to make a long haul to BBM (or Kelethin) for training in a 2ndary class. 

**

I was jsut sitting here thinking something similar since my last post above, it's not really a **evil** issue, it's a lowbie issue.

Getting to BB mts (esp if it's right that tickets take you to the docks) low enough for benefiting form chest drops would be an issue all around, so if the OP considers it broken, then really, they need to consider it broken all around. (as noted above, I"m not sure broken is the right word, but I'm not stressed about that aspect)

[Kalyai]

There is actually a VERY simple answer as to why this is...

Tinkering and Transmuting came out with EOF.  In order to start either of these 2 secondary tradeskills, you need to have the EOF expansion.  The NPCs for starting these tradeskills are in the EOF zones.  To make it "easy" for lowbie Evils, they put these guys right on the docks in BB.

You do realize, I hope, that in order to get your basic tradeskill recipes from 50-59 you have to go to Maj'Dul, and to get your basic recipes for 60+ you have to go to the KOS zones.

Same kinda thing wtih your secondaries...you gotta go to EOF to start them.

[NiamiDenMother]

The secondary tradeskills were meant to be difficult and/or expensive, and were advertised from the start as "not for everyone".  Many concerns related to these were aired during the beta, and, at that time, they were "as intended".  Whether that intention has changed since then, time will tell, but, until they say otherwise, these are, truly, not meant to be something that most folks can afford to do in terms of time/expense. (Trust me, I know how obsessive crafters can be about these, and you do NOT want to know what lengths I went to with XP locking alts, harvesting binges, etc. to get my transmuting up to 327 - demented redhead does not come close to describing me as I was working on this, all the while reciting to myself that I knew full well what I was getting into when I started transmuting... It didn't help, I still got frustrated, but after a bit of math, I settled down to harvest my fingers off, selling off the common stuff and turning the rares into things I could transmute, and my pocketbook was WAY happier with me.  Even T1 roots and loam can make a handy profit on most servers!  )

[FahlenCryptwalk]

Dwelian wrote:

Mystfit wrote:

Hmm...Neriak, yah, that would be a tiny bit trickier..lemme think...

Just as an FYI, there is a merchant in Neriak that sells the 60 silver tickets to the Nektulos and Thundering Steppes docks.  They're in the same building as a Neriak teleporter. To all that have responded in this thread:  Please bear in mind that you've essentially all just posted workarounds for the problem, which is a good indicator that something is broken.   My transmuter is my highest level and only real character on the server, so 60 silver is still a lot of money to me.  I couldn't have spent it at level 5 because I didn't have it.   I also didn't know about the item level limit until I read Calthine's guide, and I only read the guide because I couldn't get transmuting to work on anything. Now I'm stuck with a tradeskill that I've spent over 1g on (yes, I know 1g is a joke to you, but I only have 5g to my name) that I can't skill up in.  I'd like to save other newbies that grief.

Transmuting, in my opinion, is definitely not for someone new to EQ2, especially when 60sp is still alot of money. You'd be much better off selling those low level books on the broker to other players. On my server even level 1 books will sell for 5-10gp to other higher level players (mostly to skillup their transmuting, ironically). Or if you're really determined to do it, sell at least one of the books you were going to transmute and you'll have cash for a boat ride and plenty to spare. Honestly though, when you take into consideration the amount of otherwise sellable loot you'll be melting down, this is an incredibly expensive tradeskill.

[Liyle]

You do *not* go to the TS or Nek docks from Neriak with a ticket, you go to the spires. The trip is not hard for experienced players even if you goof up and end up at the spires in TS. We took it in stride and made a side trip to Antonica for t2 raws after we finished the griffin egg quest... compared to running level-locked harvesting toons on PvP it was a breeze. One thing I don't agree with is the reliance on outside information. Pardon me for dragging out the Sacred Immersion Cow, but it's kind of too bad that starting secondary tradeskills successfully relies so much on having read the cheats. Everyone except Kelethiners has to go through this whereas the only folks who have to run low level toons into MD are the ones with no adventuring toons at that level and no friends. All those books are tradeable. Even if you do nothing but tradeskill, by the time you get to 50 you should know a whole lot more about the game than a level 5 noob.

[Tev]

Just an update on this.. i had searched to find out how to get to a transmut trainer from neriek and tried going through the forest.. however if you go to the doc markets you no longer have to pay 60 silver, its free. Thank goodness! Im so broke and after dying like 5 times trying to get to the nek docs i went home, then something told me to go check the docs.

Just fyi for anyone else who is searching how to get your evil character trained for transmuting " width="15" height="15" />

[Vonotar]

Neriak Teleporters will take you to Nek/TS docks for free, simply go to the end of the docks in Neriak and click the teleporters.That said, Transmuting is a very expensive tradeskill, even if you started at adventure level 1, you would need to turn off combat xp and farm for adepts etc to stand half a chance of being able to level transmuting at the same speed as your adventure level.

[Eueadan]

Wylder@Permafrost wrote:

You can easily get to the trainer at level 1 even on evil characters - buy a ticket at the Freeport docks to either the Nektulous or Thundering Steppes docks, and then wait for the boat to Butcherblock.. the trainer is right there at the Butcherblock docks.

For the record, there IS a cheaper way to get to BB.  If you take a magic carpet to sinking sands, and then reclick and take the carpet to BB, you can get there for free.

Kiana, if you read this you might add that to your guide as an option as well.

[Odalia]

Eueadan wrote:

Wylder@Permafrost wrote:

You can easily get to the trainer at level 1 even on evil characters - buy a ticket at the Freeport docks to either the Nektulous or Thundering Steppes docks, and then wait for the boat to Butcherblock.. the trainer is right there at the Butcherblock docks.

For the record, there IS a cheaper way to get to BB.  If you take a magic carpet to sinking sands, and then reclick and take the carpet to BB, you can get there for free.

Kiana, if you read this you might add that to your guide as an option as well.

That option is NOT avalible to evil players only good players, no clue why as I thought BB was a nutral area.

[Eueadan]

Odalia@Unrest wrote:

That option is NOT avalible to evil players only good players, no clue why as I thought BB was a nutral area.

Interesting...I don't play on the dark side, so I just assumed it was the same.  That should be changed, if true...  I don't see any reason why evil-doers shouldn't be able to carpet from SS to BB.

[Calthine]

Eueadan wrote:

Odalia@Unrest wrote:

That option is NOT avalible to evil players only good players, no clue why as I thought BB was a nutral area.

Interesting...I don't play on the dark side, so I just assumed it was the same.  That should be changed, if true...  I don't see any reason why evil-doers shouldn't be able to carpet from SS to BB.

An Evil told me about the Carpet to SS to BB trick....  I think Odalia might be mistaken. 

[KerowynnKaotic]

Dwelian wrote:

*snipped*

Now I'm stuck with a tradeskill that I've spent over 1g on (yes, I know 1g is a joke to you, but I only have 5g to my name) that I can't skill up in.  I'd like to save other newbies that grief.

and

*snipped*

(*)  If you didn't know this when choosing Transmuting , you won't have a supply of level 1-5 items available to you, and you have only one way to get them:  Via making "rares".   Trivial loot gives you no chests (which are rare to begin with) and you've outleveled and may no longer receive any quests that are "too grey".(*)  Thus the only way to skill up is to either make an alt and farm chests, or harvest rares, both of which are clearly excessive.  Assuming you got a point on every item (which is certainly not the case), you'd still need 50 lower level items before you're able to transmute anything you're likely to see at  your current level.

I'm sorry ..what?!? ... It sure sounds like you want pity for trying to level up a skill that already the NPC warned you about being NOT cheap!  I can't remember the phrasing but the NPC tells you this is a crappy skill and you should only do it if you really really want to INVEST the time AND money ..

*smacks head with keyboard*

Newbies don't need to know about it or worry about it.  Not to mention it is BOTH Tinkering AND Transmuting that is done this way and as someone already mentioned it's not just evil characters.

Neither of these skills is for the Faint Hearted NOR the Broke player!  You do not have to do either of these Tradeskills.  That's why they are Optional, even more so than regular Tradeskills.  

I have ran characters lvl 10 and under to BBM to get this skill for farming purposes, several of which were evil.  You don't even have to do the farming and Xmuting on the same character, unless the item in question is No Trade. Farm with your lowbies and hand over to your higher characters. LATER, if need be.  Horde everything till you can afford the boat trip or survive the trip to the boat.  

If Domino wants to "fix" anything with Transmuting; I'd rather her spend her time actually fixing the skill increases to be less mind numbing and not worrying over the fact that a character who doesn't start in GF doesn't have access to 1 of the secondary Tradeskills that require you to have time in either your Tradeskill or Adventure level to increase it.

I've spent nearly a year (will be a year on Nov 13) trying to max out Transmuting.  I have HORRIBLE RNG rolls, apparently.  I can go through a whole stack of 50 T1 powers and get (1) skill up.   Heck, I can go through a stack of some of the higher powers and still only get that (1) skill up.   I warn people in chat when they ask about the skills.  I give tips about harvesting Rares off the Newbie Isle, doing every single newbie quest you can (GF & DLWs quests can be done by anyone at any level .. I dinged Adv lvl 63 the other day doing a lvl 2 quest .. [Removed for Content] me off!  but, that's another issue), and tips on budgeting for the broker searches for extra Xmute items .. if they continue to do the skill .. they accept the risks. 

Want something less costly?  Hail the Master Tinkerer and change over to Tinkering.  That will only cost you fuel and harvestables.  And, done everytime you ding a lvl doesn't even take much time or energy to increase.  Plus, the toys it can create would better suit a lowbie/newbie starting out in a new server.    

[ZeroRavesOn]

Calthine wrote:

Eueadan wrote:

Odalia@Unrest wrote:

That option is NOT avalible to evil players only good players, no clue why as I thought BB was a nutral area.

Interesting...I don't play on the dark side, so I just assumed it was the same.  That should be changed, if true...  I don't see any reason why evil-doers shouldn't be able to carpet from SS to BB.

An Evil told me about the Carpet to SS to BB trick....  I think Odalia might be mistaken. 

Odalia is correct that the Carpet doesn't go to Butcherblock ... because the carpets connect the same-aligned cities.Good: Qeynos <-> Sinking Sands <-> Butcherblock (because there is no carpet in Kelethin, requires EoF to have been purchased)Evil: Freeport <-> Sinking Sands <-> Darklight Woods (does not require EoF to have been purchased)Although, as it was said above, in Neriak there are free teleporters to the TS and Nektulos Docks, so it is not the same in that evils have to wait for the boat to arrive but they have a free route to TS/Nek instead of paying the 60s that we good characters must.

[Calthine]

That's good to hear.  I'm more concerned with a way to get there that doesn't take nine years running cross country than the price of a ticket