A way to fix brawler raid-DPS

[Timaarit]

Ok, here it is: As it is, the soloing DPS of several melee classes is pretty much balanced, some classes get haste, some get DPS modifier, some get double attack and some get a variation. This is actually what breaks the system. As it is, the only good buffs are for DPS modifier and haste. A character with no haste or DPS mod can get it to 100+ in a raid situation and to 200 with temporary procs. In effect this means that classes with self haste and DPS modifiers will have absolutely no benefit from the buffs. In essence, their raid DPS will only be affected slightly by all the buffs. On the other hand, classes with double attack and minimal or no selfhaste or DPS mod, will get the full benefit from the buffs. And as there only now is a minimal double attack buff, which incidentally also helps the classes which already have DA, the classes with high haste and/or DPS mod will get very little help. For example my monk and zerker are doing about the same autoattack damage while soloing, around 500dps. Now the monk is at 129 haste and 28DPS mod and the zerker is at 28/20 with occasional procs up to about 50 each. Now if I get a group with 100 to both haste and DPS, the monks autoattack DPS does up by about 50% because 100 to haste will only give me about 10% more DPS and 100 to DPS mod gives me about 40%. But the zerkers autoattack DPS goes up by almost 100%. So monk will have about 750DPS and zerker 1000DPS from autoattack. This is quite real, in a trio group with a fury and dirge, my zerker occasionlly procs to 170DPS mod and 200+ haste. Now the monk would be at 300+ haste with the same buffs. Solution: Conversion of the brawler self haste and DPS mods from the stances and the self buffs into equivalent double attack. For monks this means that the group haste (+the normal items etc. that all classes have) would be our only haste and that we would get 60% double attack, half, that is 30% DA, from the health consuming buff and the rest from the stances, offensive would give 30%DA more and the mid stance 15% while defensive would give none. This setup would not affect the DPS from soloing, but it would give monks a chance to benefit from the buffs in raids. This would actually give at least monks the raid DPS increase that we need.

[Wildfury77]

True....but if the monk is grouped with a zerker doesn't his DPS benefit from group berzerk and group +strength buff? (my big bugbear - why do we only get 1 group buff!!!)

[Timaarit]

Yes, we get the benefit from the STR buff and partly the berzerk buff. As it is, my monk is at 129 self haste. My zerkers M1 buff gives me 29 more when it procs (and 29 DPS mod too). Now if I was at 50 haste, I would get the full benefit from the 29, but since I am at 129, I will get something like 3 to 4% more attack speed. Then again, my zerkers self haste is 23 atm so he will get full benefit of the monks 22 more haste while retaining all of his double attack. That is why the monks self haste backfires at higher tiers, the haste cap is fixed, doesn't increase as the level cap does and gives diminishing returns. As it is, because of those 2 buffs, my zerker is more wanted by melee DPS groups than the monk is. IMO one more group buff would not make a difference as zerker in fact has 3 1/2 buffs for the group, the group berzerk, group STR and group in-combat health regen buffs. The 1/2 comes from zerkers temporary groupwide mitigation buff.

[Donte]

That's the reason we have to use very slow weapons.  In my opinion you have to run a 2 hander. as all the DW I've seen are too fast and our self haste will blow them to the cap.

[Timaarit]

Yes, I use DWs with 2,5s delay on my monk. But that will not change the issue when comparing 60% double attack and 40 haste buff from a group member to monks 129 selfhaste and 40 more haste from a group member. The one with DA will gain far more extra DPS than the monk regardless of what weapon the monk uses. And the delay is an issue for my zerker too, as I have said, I occasionally get to 175+ haste mod while duoing with a fury. Add about 80 more if I were a monk and you will start seeing the issue. 80 more haste to 175 means very small DPS increase when compared to the 60% DA that the zerker has, in fact most of it is wasted.

[Jobeson]

roll a bruiser and get procs instead of haste mod.  Monks should get double attack...