SK compared to all other fighter classes

[kikamukow]

Just asking... where does the SK lie in the list between all the other Fighter Classes... in terms of

Soloing, Grouping, Raiding, PvP, 

could some one experianced with the fighter classes please rank them from 1 to 6  [ 1 being apparent best ] within their ability to do the above...  dosent have to be exact just rough idea please... 

[Beldin_]

I don't care about PvP and raiding, but for Solo and Grouping i give clear big :  1

[Dead Knight]

Soloing: 2 (Brawlers do better with their 10 sec FD and the monk invis IMO) Grouping: 1 (We can easily tank or DPS in any group content and shine above the rest) Raiding: 3 (Guardians and Zerkers taking the top spot due to their easier ability and better reputation with raid tanking. We bring alot more to the raid than Brawlers and Paladins though IMO, nobody needs Amends when a Troubadour is around and their rez/heals are useless with 5+ priests around. Don't even mention Brawlers in a raiding environment, I feel sorry for them.) PvP: I'll let a PvPer answer that.

[Coica]

I'd have to disagree with Ripzz on the solo thing.  Well equiped,0ver 95AA, and mastered out, we should be ranked #1 amongst fighters.  I'm by no means a "top" SK on my server but I can do some amazing stuff solo.  I can only imagine what a better equipped SK could do.

[Prophien]

Soloing: 3/6 Both monks and bruisers do better when soloing. This does not mean a Shadowknight is not good at soloing, just means that a similarly equipped brawler will do better.

Grouping: 3/6 Zerkers and Paladins are generally better group tanks by a little bit. Again Shadowknights are not bad group tanks, they can easily do the same content. However Berserkers and Paladins have better agro control. Zerkers also have a very nice group proc buff for extra damage along with doing great damage themselves. So both Zerkers and Paladins are slightly better but not by much. Guardians I rank lower simply because they are great tanks but overkill for normal groups.

Raiding: 3?/6 In all honesty there is very little desire for any fighter class when it comes to raiding. As said above Zerkers and Guards are generally more desirable and accepted in raids. But again no tanks are really in high demand for raiding.

PvP: No idea about this one. 

The Shadowknight is a good class but sorry they are not the best at everything. They are more of a jack of all trades tank, good at everything but master of nothing. If they were #1 at grouping, soloing and raiding then they would just be unbalanced and needing a nerf. As they are however they can do everything competently so they are good choice if you want a variety of play.

[Beldin_]

Prophien wrote:

Soloing: 3/6 Both monks and bruisers do better when soloing. This does not mean a Shadowknight is not good at soloing, just means that a similarly equipped brawler will do better.

Grouping: 3/6 Zerkers and Paladins are generally better group tanks by a little bit. Again Shadowknights are not bad group tanks, they can easily do the same content. However Berserkers and Paladins have better agro control. Zerkers also have a very nice group proc buff for extra damage along with doing great damage themselves. So both Zerkers and Paladins are slightly better but not by much. Guardians I rank lower simply because they are great tanks but overkill for normal groups.

ave you ever played an SK and a Monk or Bruiser ? I also have a 60 Bruiser at least and deleted a monk with 58, the only think that a brawler has over an SK is FD. So yeah they may be better if you like to train/FD through zones to get to a named and try to kill them, and you may can better handle nameds with a lot of adds with killing first adds and FD. However .. if you just want to fight a mob toe to toe .. the SK is much better.

For grouping .. i'm not that much an instance runner, however i can say i did all T7 instances the first time without a wipe, and if i loose aggro thats mostly due to uber-styles like knockout combination from brawlers, double-up chain from brigas, life/manaburn. The brawlers and brigas normally can take a hit, and life/manburn .. normal mobs are mostly dead, and if to early used on nameds .. there is rescue. Also in most groups i play i'm top or at least number 2 dps. Heck i was questing in PoA last week with 2 Necros, 1 Ranger and a Brigant, and was No.1 at the end, ok just 1 dps more then the better of the two Nekros

[CHIMPNOODLE.]

Top end of the spectrum... 

Soloing I'd say it's a toss up with Brawlers and SKs

Grouping I'd say SK

Raiding I'd say toss up with Guard and SK

[Galn]

I've played Paladin, Monk and SK, all into the 40's at least and as far as utility the Monk had the advantage with the faster-recast FD and Invis that didnt cost money everytime you used it. Soloing individual encounters they were all about the same, but the SK could really out do the Monk and Paladin when the "stuff" hit the fan though, like when adds showed up in the middle of a tough battle. The Monk did kill faster than the SK, but for overall survivability I'd say the SK.

 Tanking I really prefer the SK to the Monk, and have had a lot of healers tell me they want me to tank instead of my Paladin friend because  I required less healing (lifetaps of course).

I love my Monk and I love my Shadowknight, for different reasons. They may both be tank types but both have their strengths. 

[Hamervelder]

I completely disagree with the notion that brawlers can solo better than SK's.  Especially an SK with the Reaver line.  My best friend plays a bruiser, geared and equipped about the same as my SK, and she simply cannot do the things I can do.  Not even close.  In fact, I know of no other class than can take on as many mobs at once as an SK, and do it so well. 

[Beagest]

PVP:  SK > every other class bye =]

[Norrsken]

In pvp, the only tank to touch the sk is the pally. But they both need to be well played for this. A poorly played sk can still be successful, whereas a pally tends to just roll over and die. This last point puts the sk just a tad before the pally.

[Und3rt0w]

As I understand it, Bezerkers can have much higher DPS than we can.  Anyone know if that's true?

[Beldin_]

Undertow@Antonia Bayle wrote:

As I understand it, Bezerkers can have much higher DPS than we can.  Anyone know if that's true?

My opinion to that .. IF they can have higher DPS that may only result from the fact that there are more melee-buffs out there that push there auto-attack in raids. In groups or solo where we just spam combat-arts/spells zerkers won't to that much, at least i never saw a zerker doing that much till now.

[Dogm]

Solo:        If for solo you mean soloing for EXP, then I would rate SK number 1.     If by solo you mean named/loot farming then SK would drop to 3 as  Brawlers just own at training through zones and taking out named.  Yes SKs can solo named mobs, but the advantage a brawler has for "farming" is huge.

 Group:     This is a little harder as it all depends on the player, and what you are doing in the group.   A good SK will tank in offensive stance and will not have aggro problems, while a "noob" SK will say if I'm tanking i must use a shield and defensive stance.   

 Raid Tank: 3)    With the right group setup any plate tank can tank any mob,  but Guardians / Berserkers just have more tools to handle stuff hitting the fan. 

Raid Offtank / Utility:  1/2)   I would give Paladins a slight edge over us for offtanking on certain fights,  like Avatars.   This is because the spawn rate of add is so great, you won't have time to get more then 1 encounter taunt off, so it is very hard to keep them on you, but a Paladin's Amends  on a Warlock will go a long ways towards helping contain aggro.  For Utility, a good SK can do more DPS then a Paladin, and has more chances at "snap aggro" with Harmtouch, Death March, and Rescue.

 PVP:  I don't do it, so I don't know.  Also the previous answers may not mean much if you decide to play on a PVP server.  

For the last poster:   You haven't played with any good Berserkers then.  A good berserker can just spank us on DPSand tanking.

[Beldin_]

Dogmae wrote:

For the last poster:   You haven't played with any good Berserkers then.  A good berserker can just spank us on DPSand tanking.

I started a new zerker yesterday .. i will see if i get them higher then level 30 this time .. i think thats the only way i can prove myself right or wrong

[soulpurge]

Ive played the same SK since launch and i cant pull myself away from him.

Soloing, Grouping, Raiding, PvP, 

Soloing id give SK's a 1/6 if you have the reaver ability and all your AA's maxed out in your reaver line ( minus the recast reducers if you dont want them )  as well as your Spell and Critical hit %

Grouping id give the SK 1/6 mostly biased opinion because I just cant trust another tank to do as good a job as I do. im sure every one feels that way about themselfs though. but honestly the self help heals with the reaver line combined with Divine aura and Deathmarch will save your party in some of the most extreme situations that no other fighter class i've seen being able to handle.

Raiding id give SK 3/6 as much as i hate to admit it seems like Guardians where made to Tank Raids.. However..  There is no reason why a Shadowknight cant do as good a job if not better then any other tanking class. raids arnt about how good your tank is IMO its about how well you work together.

and PvP id give the SK 1/6 against all other fighter classes. lots of your opponents try to kill you as fast as possible with stuns and stifles right off the bat... such as bruisers and monks but we can easily combat this with 1 minute 12 seconds of Immunity.. just long enough to destroy our opponants.. no need for harmtouch or divine aura 90% of the time. I LOVE to PvP... specially if there is a roleplay reason behind it. I have NEVER lost to a paladin, even paladins more fabled out then I am have not been able to defeat me.. and i only have 1 piece of relic armor a fabled shield and a fabled 2 hander. with the right tactics SK's can easily mowdown ANY Berzerker or Guardian. however.. watch out for other shadowknights... they are what might be your toughtest fights.

and thats my 2cents =)

[Beldin_]

soulpurge wrote:

 with the right tactics SK's can easily mowdown ANY Berzerker or Guardian.

Lol .. seems to work even without any tactic .. i normally hate PvP and i'm a total PvP-noob, did 4 PvP at all till now, however 2 weeks ago i defeated a full fabled Guardian who is Raid-MT of one of the biggest Raidforces on our Server, and that with no special tactic, just stand there and use my spells like i did it against every normal mob, i even wanted to avoid harmtouch .. however when he was first dead, he used a self-revive special .. after that i thought OK .. if you do that, then i can also use HT

After that i tried it against our bruiser, who lost 4-5 fights against the guardian before, and he killed me like nothing

[Dead Knight]

Undertow@Antonia Bayle wrote:

As I understand it, Bezerkers can have much higher DPS than we can.  Anyone know if that's true?

I constantly outparse Berserkers on raids, even those that are DPS specced. We, equally geared in Offensive with a Troub while the Zerker has a Dirge will out dps them by about 200-300. The time when the difference comes is tanking. We can't put out anywhere near what a Zerker can while raid tanking. It's all in their STA line.

[t0iletduck]

Undertow@Antonia Bayle wrote:

As I understand it, Bezerkers can have much higher DPS than we can.  Anyone know if that's true?

Yes, a good zerker will smoke a SK in dps. A troub will help close the gap, but that usually ends up denying a mage who will get more out of the troub than the SK will. I'm actually leveling a zerk (67) who is buckler spec'd and I think i'll be making a main switch. As much as it pains me to say it, the zerk can do more dps with far less mana use, without sacrificing as much survivability. You also don't have to worry about 4 stats as a zerk, so gearing up is much simpler. In my old guild I could usually outdps a zerk if I had a troub and he had a dirge. Not the case in my new guild. He does a significant amount more dps and holds agro better. I find it very frustrating, as im actually better geared. We usually are on off tank duty on mobs with adds, like Chel'drak and various EH mobs. Sure enough he will do more DPS and keep agro on the adds unless I pop Death March. (No, he usually doesn't have dirge hate buff as it isn't really needed for him) For grouping and instances, the SK is hard to beat. Nothing is more fun than pulling a whole room of mobs and firing off Death March. However my main joy in EQ2 comes from raiding, and the zerk has the tools to do the job more effectively than an SK. More dps, more agro, more survivability.  

[Oldlore]

One post:  " I constantly outparse Berserkers on raids, even those that are DPS specced" The post *just* below it:  "Yes, a good zerker will smoke a SK in dps" -------------- Clearly this shows that dps depends on player gear, skills, and the group in a raid...or that people have no clue what they're talking about.  I'll go with the former. I've seen all tanks MT fine on raids.  The problem IMO is that once you have a MT and OT there just isn't any reason to bring more tanks into a raid.  Compare that to 4+/24 healers, 10+ dps classes and then to the server/guild populations and you see the problem.  Too many people want to play tanks and there's just no role for most of em if theyre not MTing or OTing.  Every fighter board is clamoring for more utility to make their class wanted in raids but it's a tricky thing doing that without making the class OP'd for non-raid content.

[RAROJAJO]

I only have a lvl 28 SK so how do I go about getting 1 minute 12 secs of immunity???

[Xaxtionlorex]

Dead Knight wrote:

Undertow@Antonia Bayle wrote:

As I understand it, Bezerkers can have much higher DPS than we can.  Anyone know if that's true?

I constantly outparse Berserkers on raids, even those that are DPS specced. We, equally geared in Offensive with a Troub while the Zerker has a Dirge will out dps them by about 200-300. The time when the difference comes is tanking. We can't put out anywhere near what a Zerker can while raid tanking. It's all in their STA line.

I have to disagree there, my guild has three tanks we use on raids, guard, zerker, and me, the difference between the zerks and I's gear is maybe one treasure/legendary jewelry spot. Our zerk tanking does around 800-1400, I do around 1.7-2k , and these are the numbers from last nights head to head raid,i wont mention our gaurd, he tries, and we <3 for it, but,well, hehe. Soloing, take spell crits, get reaver, have at ye! Grouping, it sounds counter productive, but take 2 healers with you, drop into off stance and mass pull, practice in nest, when you can clear the zone in 10 minutes or less, your golden. Raiding, I was in a long argument last night about us on raids, don't listen to them, we have a place, and if you do it right, other classes will have to wonder what just happened to get out tanked and out dps'ed by the sk,rawr.

[Sportak]

Well, as a raiding/grouping SK I've compared myself to a few zerkers and easily out-DPS some whilst others I can beat at times but other times they totally smoke me. I don't like to sit back and DPS though, I rolled a tank to do just that so recently I switched my main back to my Guardian.

 At first holding aggro was a real pain and I started to think I had made a mistake, but after reluctantly relenting to advice and going the buckler line, even on a Guardian, it really annoys me to say that my DPS is at least equal to my SK, and tanking is a lot easier even in offensive stance.

Comparing yourself to others will always be tough depending on player skill etc, but comparing my own fully fabled, 100 AA, fully adorned SK to my far less well equipped Guardian (with only 76 AAs, no adorns), the warrior has far better tanking ability, aggro control and DPS...once he's in equal gear it won't even be a contest who I raid on.

Mind you for general grouping the SK is still a lot more fun.

[Legiax]

This post has been interesting =p

OK Coming from a raid zerker / PvP zerker (one of the few PvP Zerks to get Master, wewt, but then lost it booooo)

Solo: SK is better than a Zerk, but Zerkers do well. Both classes have good solo potential if specced correctly. E.g. SK takes Reaver etc, Zerkers specs DPS and stays in offensive.

Group: Zerker has a tank is better than SK in a lot of ways, especially vs multi-mob encounters, where if your all honest with yourselves... nothing touches a zerker. Zerker spike damage is huge, and due to the hate decay system lets us pull agro whe needed, we have some big taunts, and also the best group taunt in the game (Insolent Gibe ftw tbh). Couple that with our huge AoE's and your set.

Raids: Presuming both a Zerker and SK were geared equally within reason, and the Zerker had his STA line (buckler reversa, double attack etc), then Zerkers are far the better raid tank. We have great short term defensive buffs (+33 defense, +2.3k mit), HUGE agro potential with Destruction + Openwounds + AoE's, massive haste when specced correctly, Gut Roar, and as an above poster mentioned we can work on 2 main stats, e.g. STA + STR and be sorted.

 PvP: 1v1 SK > Zerk. Group v Group Zerk > SK. As a Zerker, the one class I get worried about the most 1v1 is an SK, they are anti-zerkers tbh.

I'm definitely not saying SK's are bad raid tanks, they are awesome.. but compared to a T1 Tank (Guard / Zerk), your fishing in waters too deep. However as a tanking order...

Solo Epics:

Guard

Zerk

SK

Pally

Multi Mob Epics:

Zerk

Guard / SK

Pally

*Pallys suck.*

[Antryg Mistrose]

I know there are some bad Paladins around (I've grouped with most of them on my server it seems), but they do NOT suck when it comes to aggro. Amends on the right class (and that changes depending on the encounter) > anything Berserkers OR ShadowKnights can currently put out (and with the nerf coming to double attack procs, you guys are coming back down to Norath).  Happy landings Or as even posters on the Berserker forums admit "When the no.2 choice for tank also has the no.1 DPS, you know the nerf bat is coming..." Now when are bards going to become a dps class ....

[Archenel]

LOL this post made me laugh. Palies have by far the best agro regardless of the encounter if they play smart and oh ya we also have better hp then most tanks. So your little opinion of palies being a bad tank are wrong. However when it comes to dps most palies suck a wiener cause again they are newbs so what it really boils down to is the man sitting behind the computer screen. Sorry if I have upset you but I say again that was hilarious!!!

[Norrsken]

Sakatai@Nagafen wrote:

This post has been interesting =p

OK Coming from a raid zerker / PvP zerker (one of the few PvP Zerks to get Master, wewt, but then lost it booooo)

Solo: SK is better than a Zerk, but Zerkers do well. Both classes have good solo potential if specced correctly. E.g. SK takes Reaver etc, Zerkers specs DPS and stays in offensive.

Group: Zerker has a tank is better than SK in a lot of ways, especially vs multi-mob encounters, where if your all honest with yourselves... nothing touches a zerker. Zerker spike damage is huge, and due to the hate decay system lets us pull agro whe needed, we have some big taunts, and also the best group taunt in the game (Insolent Gibe ftw tbh). Couple that with our huge AoE's and your set.

Raids: Presuming both a Zerker and SK were geared equally within reason, and the Zerker had his STA line (buckler reversa, double attack etc), then Zerkers are far the better raid tank. We have great short term defensive buffs (+33 defense, +2.3k mit), HUGE agro potential with Destruction + Openwounds + AoE's, massive haste when specced correctly, Gut Roar, and as an above poster mentioned we can work on 2 main stats, e.g. STA + STR and be sorted.

 PvP: 1v1 SK > Zerk. Group v Group Zerk > SK. As a Zerker, the one class I get worried about the most 1v1 is an SK, they are anti-zerkers tbh.

I'm definitely not saying SK's are bad raid tanks, they are awesome.. but compared to a T1 Tank (Guard / Zerk), your fishing in waters too deep. However as a tanking order...

Solo Epics:

Guard

Zerk

SK

Pally

Multi Mob Epics:

Zerk

Guard / SK

Pally

*Pallys suck.*

In the single mob pve encounters, zerkers prolly whip the sks as far as tanking goes, but in multi mobs, sks and pallies are kings. In pvp, everything basically outtanks a sk.

[CHIMPNOODLE.]

Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:

Sakatai@Nagafen wrote:

This post has been interesting =p

OK Coming from a raid zerker / PvP zerker (one of the few PvP Zerks to get Master, wewt, but then lost it booooo)

Solo: SK is better than a Zerk, but Zerkers do well. Both classes have good solo potential if specced correctly. E.g. SK takes Reaver etc, Zerkers specs DPS and stays in offensive.

Group: Zerker has a tank is better than SK in a lot of ways, especially vs multi-mob encounters, where if your all honest with yourselves... nothing touches a zerker. Zerker spike damage is huge, and due to the hate decay system lets us pull agro whe needed, we have some big taunts, and also the best group taunt in the game (Insolent Gibe ftw tbh). Couple that with our huge AoE's and your set.

Raids: Presuming both a Zerker and SK were geared equally within reason, and the Zerker had his STA line (buckler reversa, double attack etc), then Zerkers are far the better raid tank. We have great short term defensive buffs (+33 defense, +2.3k mit), HUGE agro potential with Destruction + Openwounds + AoE's, massive haste when specced correctly, Gut Roar, and as an above poster mentioned we can work on 2 main stats, e.g. STA + STR and be sorted.

 PvP: 1v1 SK > Zerk. Group v Group Zerk > SK. As a Zerker, the one class I get worried about the most 1v1 is an SK, they are anti-zerkers tbh.

I'm definitely not saying SK's are bad raid tanks, they are awesome.. but compared to a T1 Tank (Guard / Zerk), your fishing in waters too deep. However as a tanking order...

Solo Epics:

Guard

Zerk

SK

Pally

Multi Mob Epics:

Zerk

Guard / SK

Pally

*Pallys suck.*

In the single mob pve encounters, zerkers prolly whip the sks as far as tanking goes, but in multi mobs, sks and pallies are kings. In pvp, everything basically outtanks a sk.

Pretty much true overall. The gap vs solo is slim as well though. Dunno PvP much.

[Norrsken]

CHIMPNOODLE. wrote:

Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote:

Sakatai@Nagafen wrote:

This post has been interesting =p

OK Coming from a raid zerker / PvP zerker (one of the few PvP Zerks to get Master, wewt, but then lost it booooo)

Solo: SK is better than a Zerk, but Zerkers do well. Both classes have good solo potential if specced correctly. E.g. SK takes Reaver etc, Zerkers specs DPS and stays in offensive.

Group: Zerker has a tank is better than SK in a lot of ways, especially vs multi-mob encounters, where if your all honest with yourselves... nothing touches a zerker. Zerker spike damage is huge, and due to the hate decay system lets us pull agro whe needed, we have some big taunts, and also the best group taunt in the game (Insolent Gibe ftw tbh). Couple that with our huge AoE's and your set.

Raids: Presuming both a Zerker and SK were geared equally within reason, and the Zerker had his STA line (buckler reversa, double attack etc), then Zerkers are far the better raid tank. We have great short term defensive buffs (+33 defense, +2.3k mit), HUGE agro potential with Destruction + Openwounds + AoE's, massive haste when specced correctly, Gut Roar, and as an above poster mentioned we can work on 2 main stats, e.g. STA + STR and be sorted.

 PvP: 1v1 SK > Zerk. Group v Group Zerk > SK. As a Zerker, the one class I get worried about the most 1v1 is an SK, they are anti-zerkers tbh.

I'm definitely not saying SK's are bad raid tanks, they are awesome.. but compared to a T1 Tank (Guard / Zerk), your fishing in waters too deep. However as a tanking order...

Solo Epics:

Guard

Zerk

SK

Pally

Multi Mob Epics:

Zerk

Guard / SK

Pally

*Pallys suck.*

In the single mob pve encounters, zerkers prolly whip the sks as far as tanking goes, but in multi mobs, sks and pallies are kings. In pvp, everything basically outtanks a sk.

Pretty much true overall. The gap vs solo is slim as well though. Dunno PvP much.

In solo pvp, facing off against the other tanks, the pally and sks are monsters, if well played. All comes down to being able to outheal the damage the tanks do while chipping away at their health. And in 1 on 1 against the other classes, the crusaders are also quite effective, due to their healing capabilities. Especially healers, which dont do enoug dps to kill the crusaders, but the crusaders can slowly wear down the power of the healers. At least the sk can, with mana sieve, power drain procs and manastone 1 & 2, and power whatever else we find. And sks tend to like to have a lot of power tricks because we are such power [Removed for Content] to begin with.

[Zehl_Ice-Fire]

Uros@Antonia Bayle wrote:

I completely disagree with the notion that brawlers can solo better than SK's.  Especially an SK with the Reaver line.  My best friend plays a bruiser, geared and equipped about the same as my SK, and she simply cannot do the things I can do.  Not even close.  In fact, I know of no other class than can take on as many mobs at once as an SK, and do it so well. 

Before EoF the bruiser I was guilded was always top 5 in the parse (and not among [Removed for Content] , it's another example of most toons it depends on the driver), I'm not sure if that stayed as of EoF because I stopped raiding for a while and he also stopped playing the game out of boredom. The main thing that lets a brawler solo better is if they get in trouble they can just FD. How many times would you have easily lived if you could FD and stay down till your health regened and run just into safe range and FD again x seconds later?

I do find it a lot of work to parse well as an SK, lots of gear swapping in and out to get off AA spells, even swapping my 10 min recast SK damage helmet) but for casual play it is easy to do most things, esp with a group. I do solo a lot (often 2 box too) since I don't want to make most ppl run all over questing with me, and I do pretty well except for those nameds that do back to back 2k hits.