For ROK.. remove the encounters and make some skilled pulls available...

[satyr-icon]

Since everquest was made, there has been encounters. Whenever you pull, you get a set ammount of mobs, and a chance of getting some adds. In other games, pulling mobs is an art... in everquest two, its just a word, anyone can do it. Brawlers feign death, basicly just a nice way to deagro, serves no function for pulls. Soothe... nice spell, usefull? nope, but its there.

Also, druids and other classes happen to get snare as a spell in this game. My question is why? In every other game, intelligent creatures will get scared when they are about to die, they will run away and maybe even agro mobs on their path, thats why snare is important, and you cant really have a group without someone to snare these runners.. in eq2, snare is just a spell, serves no real function.

 In short, make this new expansion challenging, add those little things that makes all spells not only usefull, but needed. Make pulling into a science again, make snaring a requirement, make encounters obsolete, or change the way it works so that it becomes a real challenge once again...

 This is your chance to make it right...

[troodon]

satyr-icon wrote:

In other games, pulling mobs is an art... in everquest two, its just a word, anyone can do it.

You obviously haven't seen me Prox Pull.  I am quite an artist at it

[Thearon]

Something I personally would love to see in the new dungeons are less static mobs. I like the way pulling works in eq2, most of the times atleast. But the only time it gets really interesting is when you have multiple roamers inside a room, and trying to pull them out 1 by 1.

Get rid of most of the static mobs just sitting there nicely for anyone to inch by inch bodypull without any problem. That would atleast bring some excitement and skill into pulling. A purpose for monks and mezzers since misstakes and bad pulls are much more likely with roaming mobs inside rooms.

[Armawk]

satyr-icon wrote:

Whenever you pull, you get a set ammount of mobs, and a chance of getting some adds.

But there are hundreds of places where a skilled pull can make the difference between winning and dying, as can skilled positioning in a fight to avoid tagging extra aggro. There are of course many many mobs that always come together, but then they are generally closely positioned and in some kind of logical "group" which will defend itself en masse.

I would like to see more things run away and even more patrols etc.

[Hohum]

I think some of the pulling you need to do in this game requires skill.  It's not just a case of run, taunt and drag back to your group.   Nowadays that will result in the surrounding mobs coming with the ones you want to pull.  I've played with people who have absolutely no idea on how to pull and that's at level 40.   Weird huh?

 In regards to mobs making a run for it at x amount of health it would be horrific, considering some of the pathing which you see with NPC's coming to you, "Estate of Unrest" being a prime example in Garanels Lair, who wants to chase after a mob once it runs through x amount of mobs.  It will hit a certain distance then reset and your back to square one again. 

Ho

[Xaviou]

 The only people that really want to see this are people that played Monk pullers in EQ1. When this game first launched and raiding started in earnest, I had a guild leader that wasted hours of our time trying to pull encounters the way a monk would in EQ1. Oddly enough, this person was a Monk in one of the top guilds in EQ1. They quit shortly after this, saying EQ2 needed pulling.

  "Skilled Pulling" is already in the game, not just limited to monks. A more apt title to your thread would be, "For ROK: Make Monks inordinately more requisite then any other class"

[Lakaah]

I like the current encounter system as is. It adds variety to sometimes fight a single mob, and sometimes fight a group of 6, and variations in between. So I'm definitely against any big changes to that. Mobs running away is something that sounds good in theory, but only winds up being annoying, imo. DaoC features mage/archer mobs that will constantly run away to max range until you get a couple melee hits on them. I can think of one or two areas where this was actually kind of fun and challenging, but overall it was just a pain.

[Thearon]

I currently like the way pulling works today in eq2 as well, the fact that you dont really need a monk or a enchanter the way you did back in eq1.

What I ment by the idea about moving mobss just to increase the difficulty in achieving the same thing we do today. You have to time the way you move forward to do the pull. And even if it still wouldnt be NEEDED to have a crowd control or a brawler/sk for pulling, it would add a use for the feign death classes and the mezzers to add security.  Cause as it is today the only time you really get adds (given your puller/tank has some kind of experience in pulling) is when you get lag spikes and run to far without actually interacting with the game.

Sure, crowd control is usefull in the really hard zones like nizara and castle mistmoore if you wanna go with 1 healer and use inside encounter mezzing instead.  But what I ment was that it might add some spice into pulling and handling mobs.

And for the record, I am a 70 guardian, the reason I make these posts is because pulling today isnt really a challange Its just a matter of inching towards the mob until the attack, then run back.

[Cusashorn]

The topic poster is asking for the developers to change the very core gameplay mechanics of this game. Keep dreaming.

[Gungo]

Cusashorn wrote:

The topic poster is asking for the developers to change the very core gameplay mechanics of this game. Keep dreaming.

Actually not really. Whiel fake death pulling will not work in eq2. Mobs can be coded to run away once below a certain amount of health (thus requiring root/snare/stun) Alsomaking mobs wander more will also help. And increasing the agro radius of some mobs. So that soothe/or similar spells will work.

And IMHO this is one complete area that eq2 is missing and with so many classes it can be a ROLE that certain classes are in dire need of. Bring back the art of the split. Make crowd control more dynamic.

[Lleinen]

As an enchanter I'd love to see more crowd control required-ness(?)...atm mez only helps when times get rough, not all the time (should always be some kind of CC imo)

[Controlor]

One of the big mechanics of EQ2 was to get rid of the absolute dependancy on those specific classes in EQ1. If you didnt have a chanter/ monk / ranger/ druid/ bard.... Any of those cheracters then you were SOL. You would often get to many mobs and wipe. They wanted to ELIMINATE this massive dependancy on these few classes and give every group a chance to suceed whether its 6 paladins, or a temp, guard, chanter, assassin, wizard, necro. Where in EQ1 6 paladins may be ok and kill some mobs the vast majority of harder content is inaccesable to them BECAUSE they didnt have a core class needed to suceed. While the latter group was pretty much the ideal group and everyone else was getting shafted because they were looking for one specific class. Here now you look for healer look for tank look for dps any tank can tank any group instance (not so in eq1). Any healer can heal a group instance (harder for some in eq1). Any scout mage can dps. There is no Looking for crowd control as crowd control is a dependancy. I dont see this being changed any time soon. If it is even mobs that run away you have a mob that runs away and if you dont have a certain class type you get a lot of adds and wipe. So that 6 paladin group would most likely fail unless they were able to perfectly time every one of their stuns. Where as now a 6 paladin group CAN go into an instance (regardless of what people say they can).

[DMIstar]

Controlor wrote:

One of the big mechanics of EQ2 was to get rid of the absolute dependancy on those specific classes in EQ1. If you didnt have a chanter/ monk / ranger/ druid/ bard.... Any of those cheracters then you were SOL.

Pfft Never let those classes pull any way =P. Anyways Im for this only if they get rid of graven embrace and give me back Death Peace intact (none of this buff aggro junk) and all will be great $$

[Chefren]

Controlor wrote:

Where as now a 6 paladin group CAN go into an instance (regardless of what people say they can).

It's not about going in, it's about coming back out again! But yeah, more wandering mobs would be cool. They made the HoS raid zone a lot more unpredictable and exciting than it would otherwise have been and I think it would bring more excitement to normal heroic zones as well.

[Zard]

No need to remove the encounter mechanics, just add: * More patrols; either linked or solo mobs * Static mobs that wander short distances randomly around their spawn points; thus going in and out of each other's social aggro radius * More groups of solo but social mobs near each other * Some mobs should have a larger or smaller social aggro radius; Named should be huge, runts should be small because the other mobs do not care if they are attacked   Groups without crowd control can function just fine but have to be more careful. Player skill is more important for difficult pulls. Enchanters are helpful but still not required. Other classes with minor crowd control abilities (bards, necromancers, rangers, etc.) can actually use them (!)  The Soothe (aggro radius reduction) spell line becomes more useful; it's more useful for harvesting than combat. I am not sure I want to see mobs run when low on health though the risk of trains (in EQ1) always added to the risk thus keeping combat exciting. It would give snares and roots more use though, and that is a good thing. . . EDIT: Bah, Safari (on Macs) doesn't play nice with these forums. 

[Slayer505]

If you look at alot of the newer zones, there are alot more wandering/patrolling mobs all the way from the roaming Orcs in Crushbone to Woushi patrolling around the third floor of Emerald Halls so it seems the Devs agree.  If you go to the EH third floor and just start pulling stuff without paying attention to where Woushi is, pretty soon you get your raid wiped as Woushi and every trash mob on that floor come to punk you.  Look at Unrest, plenty of wandering mobs in there both inside and in the yard and if you can manage to pull all the shards of Garenel without getting the fragments, you're doing pretty good. As a tank I can tell you that body pulling is an art every tank needs to learn.  I can also tell you that pulling with a Ranger using amazing shot or a shaman/summoner with a pet are also viable pull tactics in the right situation.  There is no one class that ALWAYS works as the puller, there are multiple classes that can do it based on the situation and zone.  I like it that way personally and I don't see any reason to change it.  If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

[The_Cheeseman]

You act like FD-splitting, or the entire concept of "pulling" in general was some kind of conscious design choice on the part of EQ1's devs. In actuality, they never imagined players tackling content that way, and did everything they could to stop it, early on. Why do you think they nerfed FD so many times, like maintaining the monk's position on the MOBs' aggro lists after FD, etc. What do you imagine when you envision a monk? I can tell you why I started one in EQ1, because I think martial arts are cool and stylish, and I respect people with the discipline and dedication to master them. I wanted to fight evil monsters with my iron fists of fury, hone my body into a living weapon, and transcend the limits of my mortal form! When I hit about level 20-30 and started hunting in Unrest, I was introduced to FD-pulling, and discovered what my role would be for the rest of my character's life. Not beating dragons into submission, but flopping around like a fish and trying to cowardly dupe MOBs into isolation. The entire concept is silly, it shatters the verisimilitude of the world, and it's an obvious exploit of unintended limitations in MOB AI. If you would like to play a class that guilds only want one of on any given raid, and only then to lay on their faces for most of the battles, be my guest. Personally, I did not sign up for that, and I would be extremely disappointed to see its return. This isn't even considering the huge negative impact that single-pulling would have on EQ2's entire combat design. Think about what happened in EQ: no decent group of players ever fought more than one MOB at a time if it was humanly possible (and I never found a set of MOBs in EQ1 that I couldn't separate), therefore the devs had to design every MOB to be a challenge by itself. That meant that you absolutely HAD to single pull, whether you wanted to or not, because more than one MOB would obliterate you. Essentially, every MOB in EQ1 had to be a Heroic^^^, forcing groups of battle-hardened, high-level, experienced players to cower in remote corners for risk of getting a single add. Do you really want to give up EQ2's fast paced, mobile, and dynamic adventuring for hours of sitting on your butt in one out-of-the-way room in a massive dungeon that you will never see because you're not pulling? I am convinced that there are people I raided the Plane of Hate (1.0) with in EQ1 several times a month who never saw anything but the NE corner and the Maestro's chapel. That's a total waste, especially in a game with such rich and detailed areas as EQ2. Pulling is an outdated relic of poor game design, and we are better off without it. Any skill attributed to pullers is simply a measure of how well that player can exploit MOB aggro ranges, pathing nodes, and zone geometry. And this is coming from a guy who did it for 4 years in several top-end raiding guilds.

[DMIstar]

Verant didnt expect FD to be a pulling Mechanism dureing the games early age... But Did they go and take it out all together to stop it ? No. they tried to tune it to the game. aka Giveing more lasting aggro to the players that are fded, lengthening its aggro clear.... Overal it became a mechinism to the game and was built around that hense FD is not an exploit but part of the game.. and its even been tuned further with AAs and such. As for Fding causing the mobs to be suddenly Tuned to be ^^^ is over exagerating. Pulling multiple Fire Giants back then was the same... There was no revamp on every existing mob or sudden halt on things when FD was being used for pulling. The only obvious known Mob Damage increase was when PoP just came out, it was only in that expansion. I believe that was a bigger spike then luclin, FG was deadly back then but not that much. Pulling skill, Id like to see back in game. Proximity pulling is near a joke. They are working on it though. Many new zones, like CoV will have mobs at doors which are not linked. People can still wipe by aggroeing both of them as well. which is the same as in EQ. the only real difference is in this game a single encounter can be linked mobs (that are tuned to be an encounter) where as EQ had all one encounter mobs. I dont see a difference in pulling two encounters in either game. Other then this game actually spends more time adjusting each and every one.. which i think EQ was more cut and paste.

[Kri]

Unless the mobs are linked, FD splitting works in EQ2 too. Pull two non-linked mobs, run back to group, have the MA tag one of the mobs, FD. Only the tagged mob will stay. Just be careful with spikes or spores on the puller as they might bring aggro to the healer.

[Yella]

Gungo@Crushbone wrote:

Cusashorn wrote:

The topic poster is asking for the developers to change the very core gameplay mechanics of this game. Keep dreaming.

Actually not really. Whiel fake death pulling will not work in eq2. Mobs can be coded to run away once below a certain amount of health (thus requiring root/snare/stun) Alsomaking mobs wander more will also help. And increasing the agro radius of some mobs. So that soothe/or similar spells will work.

And IMHO this is one complete area that eq2 is missing and with so many classes it can be a ROLE that certain classes are in dire need of. Bring back the art of the split. Make crowd control more dynamic.

Which in turn sucks if you are a class that doesn't get those abilities.

[LordPazuzu]

I think pulling in EQ2 does require a certain degree of skill and forethought in different situations.  The skill comes in knowing what tactic to use in what situation and being able to execute it properly.  It *is* easier than in EQ1, but in EQ1 it got to the point where you needed very specific classes in your group to even have a chance at being successful, which is something they are trying to discourage in EQ2.

But running mobs...yes, please bring back the runners.  This truly adds to the challenge and excitement of a dungeon environment.  A runner successfully escaping to pass aggro should be a definite worry for a group.

[initoci]

I want to be able to actually use my bow to pull...In EQ1 my bow was my best friend and it was actually worth upgrading...In EQ2 I use my bow for ranged fights in raids and that is it. In all of the zones I tank I have to body pull everything. It gets boring rather than skilled.

[Armawk]

Verix@Nektulos wrote:

 In all of the zones I tank I have to body pull everything.

Why? Cant you just pull with your bow?

[Xaviou]

[Removed for Content] why won't this thread die?

the name of the thing alone just makes me want to rip someone's eyes out and stomp on them.

[Mirander_1]

shaunfletcher wrote:

Verix@Nektulos wrote:

 In all of the zones I tank I have to body pull everything.

Why? Cant you just pull with your bow?

Social Aggro is most likely what he's refering to.  Use an attack to pull, and you'll have the whole room come to you.  Body pulls generate no aggro, and thus will only pull the the encounters that are actually in aggro range.

[Drewx]

Everything I would have said has been said. Pulls do take some skill in this game, with body pulls mainly. you can't just walk up and run back sometimes you need to watch for wanderers and flying mobs.

But if you really want "skilled pulls" back just take onthe quest to unlock them.

The quest starts by buying EQlive at your local Video Game Store...

[Gungo]

Yella wrote:

Gungo@Crushbone wrote:

Cusashorn wrote:

The topic poster is asking for the developers to change the very core gameplay mechanics of this game. Keep dreaming.

Actually not really. Whiel fake death pulling will not work in eq2. Mobs can be coded to run away once below a certain amount of health (thus requiring root/snare/stun) Alsomaking mobs wander more will also help. And increasing the agro radius of some mobs. So that soothe/or similar spells will work.

And IMHO this is one complete area that eq2 is missing and with so many classes it can be a ROLE that certain classes are in dire need of. Bring back the art of the split. Make crowd control more dynamic.

Which in turn sucks if you are a class that doesn't get those abilities.

Show me one class in eq2 w/o a stun or daze or root or snare of some sort. Good luck with that.

[Malchore]

Gungo@Crushbone wrote:

Show me one class in eq2 w/o a stun or daze or root or snare of some sort. Good luck with that.

You have any idea how many of those abilities DON'T work against epic mobs?  And therefore are useless in raids.  Heroic instances, fine!  But epic raids would be out of the question.

[DMIstar]

Mirander_1 wrote:

shaunfletcher wrote:

Verix@Nektulos wrote:

 In all of the zones I tank I have to body pull everything.

Why? Cant you just pull with your bow?

Social Aggro is most likely what he's refering to.  Use an attack to pull, and you'll have the whole room come to you.  Body pulls generate no aggro, and thus will only pull the the encounters that are actually in aggro range.

Yep Body pulling..... Its the only thing ... What do i need to do here ? body pull ... wait wait, i have to wait a minute then body pull from this corner of a door as mobs get closer .... Theres nothing else.

[Ran]

Auric@Oasis wrote:

No need to remove the encounter mechanics, just add: * More patrols; either linked or solo mobs * Static mobs that wander short distances randomly around their spawn points; thus going in and out of each other's social aggro radius * More groups of solo but social mobs near each other * Some mobs should have a larger or smaller social aggro radius; Named should be huge, runts should be small because the other mobs do not care if they are attacked   Groups without crowd control can function just fine but have to be more careful. Player skill is more important for difficult pulls. Enchanters are helpful but still not required. Other classes with minor crowd control abilities (bards, necromancers, rangers, etc.) can actually use them (!)  The Soothe (aggro radius reduction) spell line becomes more useful; it's more useful for harvesting than combat. I am not sure I want to see mobs run when low on health though the risk of trains (in EQ1) always added to the risk thus keeping combat exciting. It would give snares and roots more use though, and that is a good thing. . . EDIT: Bah, Safari (on Macs) doesn't play nice with these forums. 

its really cool to play a class which is nothing more than a mana batterie, wow....... how exciting. Today every tank which know where his taunt buttons are and know to us em is able to tank every instance but hey... there are tanks out which doesnt know her taunts in t7, cause those spells make no dmg.... nothing more to say.

Btw. you can pull with you bow.. you just have to know where and which one