What's the diff. 'tween Coercer and Illusionist

roces9 · 04-04-2007, 02:19 PM

Hi. I'm a Troubador and I'm sick of not being able to crowd control.

That being said I want to try an Chanter because you guys bring alot of support to a group and that sounds more fun than what my Troubador can do. But when I went to the Coercer FAQ for whatever reasons I couldn't open the Ill vs Coercer links and didn't find anything that helpful on the last few pages of the Ill or Coercer boards. So could you guys just break down the differences between the Enchanters for me? Thanks.

Raidi Sovin'faile · 04-04-2007, 06:51 PM

Short answer... Coercers are more complicated than Illusionists.

- Coercers get less base regen, but can get similar with AA's. However, with Channel you can pull off some nice, group saving tricks with power that no one else could do. This takes skill, a good sense of timing, and sometimes forethought (keeping your own mana up to use for Channel).

- Coercers, due to the way their damage works, will lose most of their main form of damage on any mobs they have to use their crowd control. Our two biggest damaging spells will only work when the creature is hitting things with melee or spells... so if you daze, stifle, or stun, your damage won't go off on that mob. Illusionists have dumbfires and a spell that procs when YOU hit the mob, etc.

- Coercers get more Main Tank group friendly buffs. Coerced Healing AA increases heals for one healer by 15%. We have a +hate ability that can be put on the tank. Another, increasing heal crit chance, is shared by Illusionists.. but Coercers are more prone to choosing it since in a raid, their other buffs would combine best with that to place them with the main healers.

Illusionsts get more DPS group friendly stuff. Double Attacks, spells costing less mana, etc.

- Coercers get a better version of Memory Wiping. Although there's an exact same version tinker made, and Illusionists still get "a" version (albeit slower and less effective as a tool).

- Our power drains are over time, as opposed to all up front like Illusioinists. This is only really a concernin PvP.

- Coercers buff +DPS. Illusionists buff lower amounts of +Haste. I think the lower amount is simply because Haste increases autoattack AND procs. Overall, it will only play a factor in who will like to group with you most (meleer's that have a lot of self haste will want you to be buffing them).

- Coercers can charm mobs around them.. getting an unstable, but tailor made pet depending on the situation. Often, you can find some very powerful pets... but this comes with a danger involved when it breaks, and won't always be available every zone you go to. This is nothing like the troubadour charm. This one lasts for minutes at a time (5 to 30), and even with a chance to break.. getting higher subjugation and/or AA's to improve the resistability (as well as spell upgrades), means you'll get long lasting pets out of it. And you can simply mez and recharm.

Illusionists get a pet too, however it's always the same. It's a "Second You" type thing... and it will randomly cast similar spells that you have. So it will nuke, stun, stifle, daze, etc. It won't break, won't attack you, but will never get any better than it is. Powerful in the lower levels, but nothing compared to a decent charmed pet when it comes to damage. Unreliable for actual crowd control... it just acts as a "slow down damage" while it does DPS.

- I think Illusionists have a slightly better ability at mezzing (an extra mez, and not as restricted), while Coercers get longer/more stunning ability (not counting illusionist's unreliable pet stuns). A lvl 70 Coercer can very nearly keep something from doing damage indefinately... and with the AA's to reduce recast timers, can definately maintain this on a single mob. We'll do no damage... but paired up with a nuker or straight DPS we can basically take down any controllable single target creature without even needing a healer. Pray for no resists though, heh.

As for playing an enchanter. You'll find that most people won't understand mezzing in the beginning levels. And in actuality, most of the time it will be unecessary. If you pull an encounter, even with multiple mobs in it, it'll be better to use encounter damage and kill it faster. Mez blocks AE's, so you'll just limit damage, and the reduction in incoming damage probably isn't even needed.

Mezzing will help greatly for adds, or for when the tank is going to be overwhelmed. Dots and power drains over time will break mez so you may have to resort to stunning in the beginning. But a good enchanter will be able to lock down multiple encounters while the group gets reorganized. Combine power regen (especially channel!) and you can basically say you have the ability to put the game on Pause while people catch a breather and heal up a bit.

Lastly... beware of anything that is immune to your crowd control. You are basically a weaker DPS with regen against them, so they need to die first and fast. Against Epics, you'll have limited crowd control, and it can be very helpful to keep the MT from being overwhelmed and let the healers catch up from time to time... but it will be only a very minor part. Regen, buffs, and your little bit of DPS will be the lion's share of what you bring on a raid.

04-04-2007, 02:19 PM	#1
roces9 Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 293	Hi. I'm a Troubador and I'm sick of not being able to crowd control. That being said I want to try an Chanter because you guys bring alot of support to a group and that sounds more fun than what my Troubador can do. But when I went to the Coercer FAQ for whatever reasons I couldn't open the Ill vs Coercer links and didn't find anything that helpful on the last few pages of the Ill or Coercer boards. So could you guys just break down the differences between the Enchanters for me? Thanks. __________________ Ofaelol Truesong 80 Troub of Bristlebane < Society of Depravity > Kithicor

04-04-2007, 06:51 PM	#2
Raidi Sovin'faile Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,320	Short answer... Coercers are more complicated than Illusionists. - Coercers get less base regen, but can get similar with AA's. However, with Channel you can pull off some nice, group saving tricks with power that no one else could do. This takes skill, a good sense of timing, and sometimes forethought (keeping your own mana up to use for Channel). - Coercers, due to the way their damage works, will lose most of their main form of damage on any mobs they have to use their crowd control. Our two biggest damaging spells will only work when the creature is hitting things with melee or spells... so if you daze, stifle, or stun, your damage won't go off on that mob. Illusionists have dumbfires and a spell that procs when YOU hit the mob, etc. - Coercers get more Main Tank group friendly buffs. Coerced Healing AA increases heals for one healer by 15%. We have a +hate ability that can be put on the tank. Another, increasing heal crit chance, is shared by Illusionists.. but Coercers are more prone to choosing it since in a raid, their other buffs would combine best with that to place them with the main healers. Illusionsts get more DPS group friendly stuff. Double Attacks, spells costing less mana, etc. - Coercers get a better version of Memory Wiping. Although there's an exact same version tinker made, and Illusionists still get "a" version (albeit slower and less effective as a tool). - Our power drains are over time, as opposed to all up front like Illusioinists. This is only really a concernin PvP. - Coercers buff +DPS. Illusionists buff lower amounts of +Haste. I think the lower amount is simply because Haste increases autoattack AND procs. Overall, it will only play a factor in who will like to group with you most (meleer's that have a lot of self haste will want you to be buffing them). - Coercers can charm mobs around them.. getting an unstable, but tailor made pet depending on the situation. Often, you can find some very powerful pets... but this comes with a danger involved when it breaks, and won't always be available every zone you go to. This is nothing like the troubadour charm. This one lasts for minutes at a time (5 to 30), and even with a chance to break.. getting higher subjugation and/or AA's to improve the resistability (as well as spell upgrades), means you'll get long lasting pets out of it. And you can simply mez and recharm. Illusionists get a pet too, however it's always the same. It's a "Second You" type thing... and it will randomly cast similar spells that you have. So it will nuke, stun, stifle, daze, etc. It won't break, won't attack you, but will never get any better than it is. Powerful in the lower levels, but nothing compared to a decent charmed pet when it comes to damage. Unreliable for actual crowd control... it just acts as a "slow down damage" while it does DPS. - I think Illusionists have a slightly better ability at mezzing (an extra mez, and not as restricted), while Coercers get longer/more stunning ability (not counting illusionist's unreliable pet stuns). A lvl 70 Coercer can very nearly keep something from doing damage indefinately... and with the AA's to reduce recast timers, can definately maintain this on a single mob. We'll do no damage... but paired up with a nuker or straight DPS we can basically take down any controllable single target creature without even needing a healer. Pray for no resists though, heh. As for playing an enchanter. You'll find that most people won't understand mezzing in the beginning levels. And in actuality, most of the time it will be unecessary. If you pull an encounter, even with multiple mobs in it, it'll be better to use encounter damage and kill it faster. Mez blocks AE's, so you'll just limit damage, and the reduction in incoming damage probably isn't even needed. Mezzing will help greatly for adds, or for when the tank is going to be overwhelmed. Dots and power drains over time will break mez so you may have to resort to stunning in the beginning. But a good enchanter will be able to lock down multiple encounters while the group gets reorganized. Combine power regen (especially channel!) and you can basically say you have the ability to put the game on Pause while people catch a breather and heal up a bit. Lastly... beware of anything that is immune to your crowd control. You are basically a weaker DPS with regen against them, so they need to die first and fast. Against Epics, you'll have limited crowd control, and it can be very helpful to keep the MT from being overwhelmed and let the healers catch up from time to time... but it will be only a very minor part. Regen, buffs, and your little bit of DPS will be the lion's share of what you bring on a raid.