"Would not take effect" during crafting is seriously irritating

[Zelkova]

Is there a workaround to this? I get a huge delay between getting this error and the time I can start the next art, and it throws off my timing, generally causing me to waste a lot of time "recovering" from screwed up sequence. And I thought crafting couldn't possibly get any worse... /sigh

[Calthine]

Sure.  Don't activate the message. You can't queue up an art behind a higher one of the same icon.  So don't do that and you won't get the message.  Also, wait just a half a beat after the higher art clears to use the lower art. However, if you're having a long delay after the message shows, you may be experiencing a performance issue. (PS I think it was a lot more annoying when the same thing occured but we didn't get a message)

[Zelkova]

So this used to happen before? I recall a time where I could queue up any art without any error and the buffs showed up on the bar just fine. Am I just hallucinating? I always alternate between a set of durability arts and progress arts so I'm constantly switching tiers, but I just started noticing this error pretty recently. And yeah I get a delay.. it's about a second but that's a big chunk of a round when it comes to crafting so I usually end up "missing" an art for that round. I mean when I get a critical failure I can't just NOT use that durability art, and the best durability art I have right now is the t2 one. I've tried waiting for the last art to expire completely but that still causes me to fall behind because it's not as fast as queueing. *wishes they would scale all tradeskill arts to the level of the crafter while keeping the effect the same*

[Cathars]

Zelkova wrote:

So this used to happen before? I recall a time where I could queue up any art without any error and the buffs showed up on the bar just fine.

What would happen before was that the lower tier effect's button would be pressed, the recast timer started, and nothing would actually happen.  The 'would not take effect' message was put in as a fix so the recast timer wouldn't start and you had another chance immediately after to press it again when the higher tier effect expired.  I know what you mean about falling behind due to it, but honestly you're caught up two rounds later and its far better than how it used to be when you'd press a counter, nothing would happen except for the recast timer being wasted and just having to take a hit from the station.

[Lord_Quaymar]

Catharsis wrote:

Zelkova wrote:

So this used to happen before? I recall a time where I could queue up any art without any error and the buffs showed up on the bar just fine.

What would happen before was that the lower tier effect's button would be pressed, the recast timer started, and nothing would actually happen.  The 'would not take effect' message was put in as a fix so the recast timer wouldn't start and you had another chance immediately after to press it again when the higher tier effect expired.  I know what you mean about falling behind due to it, but honestly you're caught up two rounds later and its far better than how it used to be when you'd press a counter, nothing would happen except for the recast timer being wasted and just having to take a hit from the station.

Aye...the "Would not take effect" was put in to point out that you're screwing up on the timing.

[Calthine]

The queueing change went in when they changed spell-stacking in the LU 13 combat revamp.  The message got put in GU 24.

[Galeden]

It was much more annoying before the message.  Then, you would hit the lower ability, it would trigger the reuse time, but the buff never took effect, so you completely lost that ability for countering for that round.  At least now if you hit it, and get the message it does not trigger the reuse time, and you can keep hitting it till it takes effect.  I could scream for the times one of the rare events happened, I would hit the right counter, but nothing happened, and I lost the chance.

[Rattfa]

Calthine wrote:

Sure.  Don't activate the message. You can't queue up an art behind a higher one of the same icon.  So don't do that and you won't get the message.  Also, wait just a half a beat after the higher art clears to use the lower art. However, if you're having a long delay after the message shows, you may be experiencing a performance issue. (PS I think it was a lot more annoying when the same thing occured but we didn't get a message)

qfe

[Aaaaaaargh]

You can't queue up an art behind a higher art of the same icon? Interesting.  I get "Would not take effect" sometimes when I press my first counter in making an item.  How could it possibly be generating this "screw up" when that is the first counter I pressed?  I do not double pump the same counter.  I have 3 icons on my hot bar, one icon for each of the different counters (by icon).  (There are 3 different icons on my hotbar for counters.)  For the sake of discussion, I'll describe them as being loaded into hotkey 7, 8 and 9.  I might press 7 then 9, or 8 then 7, or 9 then 7.  Why is it I get this message telling me I screwed up when i never push 7, 8 or 9 two times in a row?  If I did push 7 two times in a row (or 8 or 9 two times in a row) it is the same icon and the same level.  I never get the message when I double pump 9 then 7 followed by 9 then 7 but I WILL get the message 3 or 4 times when making an item when I press 7 then 9 followed by 7 then 9?  7 and 9 are different icons.  The only time I get this message is when I press the counter loaded in 7 whether or not I've pressed any keys or double pumped a pair of keys.  I never get this message after pressing 8 or 9 in any type of key combination.  If I press it (8 or 9) too soon, the counter doesn't take and I don't get a message of any type.  I have even (for example) pressed 7 then 9 and waited a complete cycle after all the counters regenerated and still received the message. I have encountered this "Would not take effect" only with my tailor and my provisioner.  I have never ever ever received this message with any of the other 4 tradeskills on my other chars.  This "phenomenon" is prolific with my provisioner and merely extremely annoying with my tailor. Aaaaaaargh

[Ealdiin]

I wouldn't mind the "would not take effect" if all of the arts were consistently "higher". We've been told for a while now that the various counters are situational and newer ones may not be better. But the error message implies that the newer/higher art is 'better' as it can't be overriden by a lower one. I wish they would just fix it so that any of the arts would replace the current one (like using a higher one over a lower one works now). Also interesting is that every tier switches whether progress or durability is 'better'

[Catsy]

The thing is, queuing up a lower-tier art behind a higher-tier one is /not/ "screwing up the timing". It's not a mistake at all. Like a previous poster said, the tiers alternate whether the progress buff or the durability buff is higher, and when I queue up the one from a previous tier it is specifically because I /intend/ to use the progress buff instead of the durability buff, or vice-versa. The game should never be second-guessing my decision to do so; when it does so it actually /hinders/ my effectiveness at crafting. I appreciate the devs adding a message so that we're not left wondering why we have to hit the button twice to make it do what we want, but that was not the correct solution to this problem. The correct solution was to remove this mechanic altogether, so that if you queue up a buff it accepts it regardless of what tier it's from. This game mechanic is a vestigial remnant of adventure spell progression, and it has no relevance whatsoever to the way the crafting buffs progress.

[MadTexan3]

Sotanyavejin@Guk wrote:

The thing is, queuing up a lower-tier art behind a higher-tier one is /not/ "screwing up the timing". It's not a mistake at all. Like a previous poster said, the tiers alternate whether the progress buff or the durability buff is higher, and when I queue up the one from a previous tier it is specifically because I /intend/ to use the progress buff instead of the durability buff, or vice-versa. The game should never be second-guessing my decision to do so; when it does so it actually /hinders/ my effectiveness at crafting. I appreciate the devs adding a message so that we're not left wondering why we have to hit the button twice to make it do what we want, but that was not the correct solution to this problem. The correct solution was to remove this mechanic altogether, so that if you queue up a buff it accepts it regardless of what tier it's from. This game mechanic is a vestigial remnant of adventure spell progression, and it has no relevance whatsoever to the way the crafting buffs progress.

Even though I can live with the system as it is, I have to agree with the above.

[Calthine]

Aaaaaaargh wrote:

You can't queue up an art behind a higher art of the same icon? Interesting.  I get "Would not take effect" sometimes when I press my first counter in making an item.  How could it possibly be generating this "screw up" when that is the first counter I pressed?

Because if you had arts running when you completed your last combine, they're still up there, and finish their timer when you start the next combine. Sotanyavejin@Guk wrote:

The correct solution was to remove this mechanic altogether, so that if you queue up a buff it accepts it regardless of what tier it's from. This game mechanic is a vestigial remnant of adventure spell progression, and it has no relevance whatsoever to the way the crafting buffs progress.

I tend to agree.  I don't know if Ilucide is aware of/has looked at this; from a code standpoint we just might be stuck with it.   Seems to me that if that were easy to do, it would be done.

[Rijacki]

Calthine wrote:

Aaaaaaargh wrote:

You can't queue up an art behind a higher art of the same icon? Interesting.  I get "Would not take effect" sometimes when I press my first counter in making an item.  How could it possibly be generating this "screw up" when that is the first counter I pressed?

Because if you had arts running when you completed your last combine, they're still up there, and finish their timer when you start the next combine. Sotanyavejin@Guk wrote:

The correct solution was to remove this mechanic altogether, so that if you queue up a buff it accepts it regardless of what tier it's from. This game mechanic is a vestigial remnant of adventure spell progression, and it has no relevance whatsoever to the way the crafting buffs progress.

I tend to agree.  I don't know if Ilucide is aware of/has looked at this; from a code standpoint we just might be stuck with it.   Seems to me that if that were easy to do, it would be done.

I think big changes might have to wait for the new guy, when they finally get him.  I just hope that the new dev takes a look at Beghn's system and thinks, as most of the tradeskillers do, that it's a bit daft with the higher level skills "filling in" the reactive arts and not actually getting "better" and how thoroughly frustrating it is to be blocked from using a skill and not have one over-write the other.  The message and block was an improvement over the no information why a skill seemed to be used but really wasn't, it didn't address what the real problem is at all and only adds another frustration.

[Cele]

Calthine wrote:

Sure.  Don't activate the message. You can't queue up an art behind a higher one of the same icon.  So don't do that and you won't get the message.  Also, wait just a half a beat after the higher art clears to use the lower art. However, if you're having a long delay after the message shows, you may be experiencing a performance issue. (PS I think it was a lot more annoying when the same thing occured but we didn't get a message)

WOW, thank you!!!  All this time, I had no clue what was causing that darn message.  LOL, the things you learn after playing forever!