Changes Coming

Thornn · 01-25-2007, 06:01 AM

All the posts and complaining paid off for you guys. They are raising the difficulty of the named in MIS. Now start complaining that the avatars are to hard, and not killable. And you can get that changed also. Then after you kill them for a few months complain that they are to easy again, have them changed. You guys are so LEET.

Gungo · 01-25-2007, 06:52 AM

actually the avatar of valor is too easy. He needs to spawn adds alternating between warriors and wizards =P And his loot needs upgrading. Maybe a nice pally mythical. Heck make it random like the SotL event mythical.

Message Edited by Gungo on 01-24-2007 05:53 PM

Pins · 01-25-2007, 07:19 AM

Gungo wrote:Actually the avatar of valor is too easy. He needs to spawn adds alternating between warriors and wizards =P And his loot needs upgrading. Maybe a nice pally mythical. Heck make it random like the SotL event mythical.

He was bugged at the time of everybody killing it. He's probably more approriate difficulty for an Avatar now that the Priest of Valor spawns instead of just having no adds for periods of time.

Gungo · 01-25-2007, 07:49 AM

agh cool, I guess the good thing is people did see the loot. it gives the developers time to actually fix it before it is "REALLY" killed. Somehow i doubt it will be upgraded b then.

Rampagious · 01-25-2007, 08:28 AM

Avatar loot seriously isn't even HALF as good as TFD loot.

Message Edited by Rampagious on 01-24-2007 07:28 PM

whodere · 01-25-2007, 08:36 AM

Congradulations on thinking....

Lets seeeeee...................

In EH you get materials to make your visit to MMIS EASIER!!!... Hmmmm.... But yet, any local [Removed for Content] with the optional Der Der Der hard helmet that can press the autoattack key can kill everything in the zone.. except mayong....

Yes... thats true progression...

I got a better Idea... How about.. . that stupid [I cannot control my vocabulary] gnome in QH just give it away and we call it your weekly welfare check for being stupid...

....Signed.... Some Templar in the witness protection program from the Communist bastages called MIB....

Message Edited by whodere on 01-24-2007 07:53 PM

Gungo · 01-25-2007, 08:55 AM

Agree i think most who saw it agree as well.

What i would like to see is: (if on a global loot table)

2 scimitars- part of a dual wield set
2 peice sword and tower shield set
2 peice jewerly healer set- neck/waist
2 piece caster ring set- spell proc
2 peice bow/ammo bag set- a right clic ammo bag that summons 99 EH arrows 5 min reuse.

(if on individual loot table)
marr- 2 hander 110DR group aoe divine dam proc + 5% chance to atk frontal arc on auto atk
tunare- round shield w 2% heal crit + 100 to heals
quellious- robe w 10% deagro proc 24 sec duration 1.8 ppm + 50 mental dam
innoruk- fabled symbol w power proc/ward spell
cazic- 1 handed wand +5% spell haste
rallos- 2 axes dual wield set (fighter only) stone skin and + 750 aoe hate on atk
sol ro- cloak + 100 to spell damage 2% spell crit
brell- somethign to tired right now

Judist · 01-25-2007, 10:33 AM

whodere wrote:

Congradulations on thinking....

Lets seeeeee...................

In EH you get materials to make your visit to MMIS EASIER!!!... Hmmmm.... But yet, any local [Removed for Content] with the optional Der Der Der hard helmet that can press the autoattack key can kill everything in the zone.. except mayong....

Yes... thats true progression...

I got a better Idea... How about.. . that stupid [I cannot control my vocabulary] gnome in QH just give it away and we call it your weekly welfare check for being stupid...

....Signed.... Some Templar in the witness protection program from the Communist bastages called MIB....

Message Edited by whodere on 01-24-2007 07:53 PM

Uhh...

You you honestly think EH (which will have the best loot table and can take up to 8 hours to fully clear) is supposed to be done before MMIS because you can get a vampire stake that does a whopping 3% in HP damage.

Wow, I cant wait to spend hours getting a stake that will do what a raid does in about 10 seconds.

And no, Tunarian Wolfsbane still does not drop in EH off of Wushi in EH

Dur dur dur ...K Bye.

Message Edited by BeatinGuts on 01-24-2007 09:34 PM

Gungo · 01-25-2007, 10:41 AM

EH also gives an item that prevents mayongs delevel. So there are a few reasons why peopel think this. Furthermore each zone is designed by a different designer so while one may take longer then another it does not mean in progression that the longer one has to be harder. Think of cheldrak an instance mob that is harder then taranix but shorter fight.

Obviously the designer who made the stake and the 6% aoe ment for the stakes to be used to make the kill posible. He just did not foresee spike damage abilites being as strong as they currently are in EoF. Manaburn, life burn, assasinte, etc.

Message Edited by Gungo on 01-24-2007 09:41 PM

Dogm · 01-25-2007, 10:50 AM

BeatinGuts wrote:

Uhh...

You you honestly think EH (which will have the best loot table and can take up to 8 hours to fully clear) is supposed to be done before MMIS because you can get a vampire stake that does a whopping 3% in HP damage.

Wow, I cant wait to spend hours getting a stake that will do what a raid does in about 10 seconds.

And no, Tunarian Wolfsbane still does not drop in EH off of Wushi in EH

So you honestly think that the Devs planned for you to go through MIS to gear up, so you can do EH and get a stake and a bloom petal, which make the mobs in MIS easier? Doesn't sound right to me. The stake isn't usable on Mayong btw only the earlier vamps, and the bloom petal makes you immune to the delevel that Mayong does. So logic would tell us that the "intended" progression was EH then MIS.

And how do you know EH will have the best loot table? The upgraded items we've seen haven't been too impressive.

Judist · 01-25-2007, 11:11 AM

If you need a stake to do 3% damage to win, I dont know what to tell you bub.

Edited to Add...

And how do you know EH will have the best loot table? The upgraded items we've seen haven't been too impressive.

Do you consider this impressive, and should come from the top raid zone? Definitly looks like a gearup piece to me...
http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=items&message.id=90586#M90586

Message Edited by BeatinGuts on 01-24-2007 10:13 PM

Dogm · 01-25-2007, 11:28 AM

Umm, it's not about "needing" that stake to win, but hell maybe the zone upgrade will make it so you do, but it is about progression. Why would an item that comes from a harder zone, help you out in an easier zone.

And as for that link, hmm yeah it is a gearup piece so you can go do labs trash and get a better BP. Different issue entirely.

Judist · 01-25-2007, 11:44 AM

Why would an item that comes from a harder zone, help you out in an easier zone.

Maybe a dev will respond. Oh wait, didnt one already say that EH was the top raid zone after the NDA was lifted? Many say EH dosent drop that great. Well EH drops better than MMIS from what I've seen.

I look at the big picture when it comes to progression. I cant see an ~8 hour raidzone to be the step "before" a zone that resembles a gearup zone should be. And a stake just dosent "do it" for me. If MM dropped the best of the best AND if Wolfsbane only came from raiding EH then I would think otherwise.

These are just my opionions btw.

Dogm · 01-25-2007, 11:49 AM

Care to share the Dev post that says that EH was the end all raid zone?

What about the bloom petal. It prevents Mayongs de-level. So an item that you get form killing the boss of EH, makes MIS easier. As has already been said, time in the zone means nothing. Cheldrak is harder then DT, yet takes only a few minutes.

Judist · 01-25-2007, 12:07 PM

Were bouncing thread like crazy tonight. SMILEY Hehe.

Cheldrak is an Adventure pack mob. You got no AA tree from that pack, it had nothing to do with T7 progression. It was just an encounter to keep top-end guilds satisfied. On the other end of the spectrum, the x2 crab was there for the smaller guilds.

The bloom petal, this prevents lag. If the devs fix the lag problem the de-level causes (a 5 second zonewide lag spike), anyone can once again complete this mob without it. Like the stakes, its nice to have but not necessary. Granted, EH makes MMIS even easier, but an 8 hour raidzone just to make a couple mobs in MMIS easier? Leave EH for the top-guilds who have that sorta time. Keep EH the #1 zone, because those who complete it SHOULD be the best and deserve ALOT for completing it.

If MMIS becomes harder than EH you accomplished 2 tragedies. Taking EH away from the casual player due to length... and taking away MMIS to the casual player because EH is necessary.

Thank god EH is currently not necessary.

Message Edited by BeatinGuts on 01-24-2007 11:08 PM

Dogm · 01-25-2007, 12:21 PM

So Adventure packs dont count towards progression ? I guess HoS and Lyceum don't count either cause they where later additions.

Have you even fought Mayong? Doesn't seem so, because the lag from his de-level is very minimal.

It seems to all come down to time with you. EH takes too long and you cant give that kind of time, so you think that MMIS should be easier because you can spend 2 hours in there.

I could care less if EH is harder then MMIS, but the looted items from EH shows that the intended progression was EH then MIS, if you can't see that, then you are blind. The reason many people where saying MIS needed to be beefed up, was not because it was easier then EH, but because it was too easy for what it was. The mobs where a joke, there was no strategy other then pull and DPS, with the exception of Tacticians armor which is easy to figure out after a pull or two, and the 2 orange vamps (which is why i said 2 pulls, once you wipe at 6% once you know what to do).

Judist · 01-25-2007, 12:34 PM

but because it was too easy for what it was

What is it? A zone that drops class armor thats a small upgrade over KoS gear. Hardly top-raid material... Who the hell wants the hardest zone or "end zone" for EoF to drop class specific gear? Its a gearup zone, the 3rd hardest but still gearup.

And maybe your server dosent have zone-wide lag problems like other servers. If its not bad on your server then you can see how the de-level isnt hard to deal with. Maybe your lucky, but dont deny the fact MANY players were screaming for the lag fix since day 1. All of them knowing they could beat the guy without the 5 seconds of pure lag.

Gungo · 01-25-2007, 11:13 PM

BeatinGuts wrote:

Were bouncing thread like crazy tonight. Hehe.

Cheldrak is an Adventure pack mob. You got no AA tree from that pack, it had nothing to do with T7 progression. It was just an encounter to keep top-end guilds satisfied. On the other end of the spectrum, the x2 crab was there for the smaller guilds.

The bloom petal, this prevents lag. If the devs fix the lag problem the de-level causes (a 5 second zonewide lag spike), anyone can once again complete this mob without it. Like the stakes, its nice to have but not necessary. Granted, EH makes MMIS even easier, but an 8 hour raidzone just to make a couple mobs in MMIS easier? Leave EH for the top-guilds who have that sorta time. Keep EH the #1 zone, because those who complete it SHOULD be the best and deserve ALOT for completing it.

If MMIS becomes harder than EH you accomplished 2 tragedies. Taking EH away from the casual player due to length... and taking away MMIS to the casual player because EH is necessary.

Thank god EH is currently not necessary.

Message Edited by BeatinGuts on 01-24-2007 11:08 PM

If you seriously think the only reason the bloopetal is to prevent lag. You really need to wake up from that dellusional dream your in. Whether or not you beleive mmis should be easier then EH is not the point. I would agree But that is not the intent of the zone. The Devs never said publicly whether EH or MMIS is the harder zone. While some people may have heard personally from developers they intended MMIS to be harder. The fact is what happens, happens. No point [I cannot control my vocabulary]ing about it.

MMIS was to easy. In fact there was no difficulty no real strategy it was boring... other then the loot you can acquire. The hardest part of the zone was the courtesans charm, which had nothing to do with the named. I know lab rats really didnt have time to fully test MMIS or EH in beta. We tested klaknon and FTH completely. And i think those scripts came out well and required some strategy. The most i was able to test was the trash in MMIS which agro'd on zone in and the first few named. The auto agro was fixed and the trash was made harder. The named needs this upgrade.

Now Eh is long but not horribly so. The lag needs to be fixed on certain aoe's and the rumbler needs to be adjusted. I actually would rather they remove the whole random named concept and leave EVERY named up. I would also like for them to put in a raid save point in EH (but this will not happen). It may hurt me and my guild but i want MMIS to be harder then EH not counting the lag/bugged encounters.

Personally i hope the orange vampire has his 6% timed aoe placed several times in his script. In other words place the aoe at 86%-80%. requiring burst dps to drop him to below 80% to avodi his aoe. Do this at 86%, 46%, and 6%. This will prevent the lifeburn, mana burn, assasinate dps issue from trivilizing the burst dps requiriment.

I hope the yellow vampire aoe becomes a bit stronger and his adds a bit more problematic. Ideally 4 adds that can only be killed by certain archtypes so a fighter mob, scout mob, caster mob, healer mob who must all be killed in a certain time or their respective aoe hits the raid ala cheldrak but all the mobs at once. Have this occur every 45secs.

I hope the gargoyle at the entrance activates the epic gargoyle statues in his room unless they are down. I also hope he has a add summoning x4 heroic mobs + root. The adds should have the nizara fireclaw proc 4k heat damage a tick for 3 ticks unless cured. This could occur at 85, 65, 45 and 25 and 5%.

Tactician armour is fine it just needs to hit a bit harder if its not on a scout. Give him a 3 princes type proc if target doe snot equal a scout.

Dogm · 01-26-2007, 12:08 AM

BeatinGuts wrote:

Who the hell wants the hardest zone or "end zone" for EoF to drop class specific gear? Its a gearup zone, the 3rd hardest but still gearup.

Uhhh, EH drops set gear too. 3 of my pieces drop in EH and only 2 in MIS, so looks to me like I have more "gearing up" to do in EH.

It all seems to come down to, you don't have the time for EH so you think MIS should be easy so you can farm loot, but what you dont understand is that EH is just as much a "gearup" zone as MIS if not more.

Judist · 01-26-2007, 06:29 AM

Yea, I just love "farming" loot in raid zones where I have to kill named. Cuz farming on a 5day lockout is overpowered....

Lab trash is farming friend, dont go making it sound otherwise because it's not gonna work. There is nothing "evil" about running a raid once a week to get geared up. And EVERY gearup zone until now was cake walk, and YOU know it. Farming is a term players use to try and make a point, dosent work in this scenario.

If you read most of my posts, I was pro-EH getting better loot. Because no "gearup" zone (as you claim EH is) has ever been 8 hours long. Are you crazy?

Imagine if you will... Your in EH... your on hour six... you dropped another named... Woot!!! Wait a minute, he dropped the shoulders we got in MMIS!?! [I cannot control my vocabulary]!!! We dont have 2 dirges! All that time spent for a rott...

Is that your idea of a gearup zone? If this stays as it is, who the heck will want to run EH 3-4 months from now if it drops class armor you get in MMIS? In 3-4 months your gonna see alot of wasted drops. This would eliminate EH completly as a worthwhile zone to gearup in.

If you've read my posts you understand that EH loot was a BIG issue, and why its now getting revamped.

Edited: My points are very basic and straightfoward. I hope your rebuttles are not just a grudge against me personally. If you really think about it, MMIS is a perfect gearup zone. Short, to the point, and less risky. EH is just way to long to use to gear up a raidforce. Thats factual.

Spending 8 hours in EH for a drop you may already have from MMIS? Or just complete 4-5 other raidzones within the same time for much more loot. You call on whats considered on "gearing up"

Message Edited by BeatinGuts on 01-25-2007 05:35 PM

Dogm · 01-26-2007, 07:02 AM

It is clear you have never done EH. First off EH loot is not getting revamped, but some of it is getting upgraded. The difference is, the named will continue to drop the set gear, and have a chance at dropping one of these other items. Most of the good items, the ones that are getting upgraded, drop from random spawn named, that you may or may not see. Each floor has 1 guaranteed named, that drops set gear OMG, and can have several other random spawn named, some of which also drop set gear OMG. They will not drop the exact same pieces as the mobs in MIS, an example would be the Pally and SK shoulders drop in MIS, the Templar, inquisiter, conj, and necro shoulders drop in EH. So yes, eventually you will get set gear that will rot in EH, no loot upgrades will change that.

Judist · 01-26-2007, 07:35 AM

Whats the point being made? Everything you said was covered in this thread at one point or another?

Rezikai · 01-26-2007, 09:37 AM

Just putting this out there....

http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=zones&message.id=25629#M25629

Lyndro doesnt say exactly which is which.. although somone just below him maks a progression list... i dont know how accurate...

Gungo · 01-27-2007, 01:30 AM

I actually posted that at the same time lyndro did his post without seeing his post.

Furthermore i made that list based upon raiding in beta and the go-by list posted for EoF beta no names just intended progression by scott. Afterwards i was told mayong is suppose to be the final boss in EoF. There has never been a public post stating MMIS or EH is the final progression instnace zone and truly it does not matter right now.

To be flat honest the reason i gave that list was specifically because of my raiding in beta. During beta i throughly tested Clockwork menance and FTH, and i spent ~3 attempts in MMIS and EH a peice. During that time MMIS was a true joke trash were weaker then the named. and EH had a ton of trash as it does now and the named were weak as well. A week or so before beta was finished MMIS trash was given specials and more hp(like charm). EH trash was upgraded as well and the named in EH was upgraded ALOT. EH turned out well except it was not fully tested. The lag issues didn't appear then. But MMIS didn't catch up to EH named.

To paraphase what i just said. No list of progression was ever released. The list shown was the progression list by difficulty that i had seen in EOF beta. At the time i thought EH was suppose to be the final zone. I have since been told otherwise. But that list is basically the difficulty progression in EOF.

Does it matter right now? not really. The ONLY true way to tell which is this expansions ENDBOSS is to finish this expansions QUESTLINE which begins LU31. If the questlines ends out requiring woushi killed then like darather and taranix before him woushi is this expansions endboss. IF this expansion questline requires killing mayong. Then mayong is the final expansion progressive boss. Now for lore junkies. Mayong in this expansion probably has the 2nd claymore wpn. (yes there are 2 swords).

01-25-2007, 07:19 AM	#3
Pins General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,040	Gungo wrote:Actually the avatar of valor is too easy. He needs to spawn adds alternating between warriors and wizards =P And his loot needs upgrading. Maybe a nice pally mythical. Heck make it random like the SotL event mythical. He was bugged at the time of everybody killing it. He's probably more approriate difficulty for an Avatar now that the Priest of Valor spawns instead of just having no adds for periods of time. __________________ Calaglin, Former Illusionist/Guild Leader of Dissolution on Nektulos Calaglin, Former Illusionist/Guild Leader of Confirmed on Unrest

01-25-2007, 08:28 AM	#5
Rampagious Loremaster Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 188	Avatar loot seriously isn't even HALF as good as TFD loot. Message Edited by Rampagious on 01-24-2007 07:28 PM __________________ Rampagious - Dissolution

01-25-2007, 10:33 AM	#8
Judist Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 432	whodere wrote: Congradulations on thinking.... Lets seeeeee................... In EH you get materials to make your visit to MMIS EASIER!!!... Hmmmm.... But yet, any local [Removed for Content] with the optional Der Der Der hard helmet that can press the autoattack key can kill everything in the zone.. except mayong.... Yes... thats true progression... I got a better Idea... How about.. . that stupid [I cannot control my vocabulary] gnome in QH just give it away and we call it your weekly welfare check for being stupid... ....Signed.... Some Templar in the witness protection program from the Communist bastages called MIB.... Message Edited by whodere on 01-24-2007 07:53 PM Uhh... You you honestly think EH (which will have the best loot table and can take up to 8 hours to fully clear) is supposed to be done before MMIS because you can get a vampire stake that does a whopping 3% in HP damage. Wow, I cant wait to spend hours getting a stake that will do what a raid does in about 10 seconds. And no, Tunarian Wolfsbane still does not drop in EH off of Wushi in EH Dur dur dur ...K Bye. Message Edited by BeatinGuts on 01-24-2007 09:34 PM

01-25-2007, 10:50 AM	#10
Dogm General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 239	BeatinGuts wrote: Uhh... You you honestly think EH (which will have the best loot table and can take up to 8 hours to fully clear) is supposed to be done before MMIS because you can get a vampire stake that does a whopping 3% in HP damage. Wow, I cant wait to spend hours getting a stake that will do what a raid does in about 10 seconds. And no, Tunarian Wolfsbane still does not drop in EH off of Wushi in EH So you honestly think that the Devs planned for you to go through MIS to gear up, so you can do EH and get a stake and a bloom petal, which make the mobs in MIS easier? Doesn't sound right to me. The stake isn't usable on Mayong btw only the earlier vamps, and the bloom petal makes you immune to the delevel that Mayong does. So logic would tell us that the "intended" progression was EH then MIS. And how do you know EH will have the best loot table? The upgraded items we've seen haven't been too impressive. __________________

01-25-2007, 11:28 AM	#12
Dogm General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 239	Umm, it's not about "needing" that stake to win, but hell maybe the zone upgrade will make it so you do, but it is about progression. Why would an item that comes from a harder zone, help you out in an easier zone. And as for that link, hmm yeah it is a gearup piece so you can go do labs trash and get a better BP. Different issue entirely. __________________

01-25-2007, 06:01 AM	#1
Thornn General Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 44	All the posts and complaining paid off for you guys. They are raising the difficulty of the named in MIS. Now start complaining that the avatars are to hard, and not killable. And you can get that changed also. Then after you kill them for a few months complain that they are to easy again, have them changed. You guys are so LEET.

01-25-2007, 06:52 AM	#2
Gungo Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Crushbone Posts: 5,378	actually the avatar of valor is too easy. He needs to spawn adds alternating between warriors and wizards =P And his loot needs upgrading. Maybe a nice pally mythical. Heck make it random like the SotL event mythical. Message Edited by Gungo on 01-24-2007 05:53 PM

01-25-2007, 07:49 AM	#4
Gungo Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Crushbone Posts: 5,378	agh cool, I guess the good thing is people did see the loot. it gives the developers time to actually fix it before it is "REALLY" killed. Somehow i doubt it will be upgraded b then.

01-25-2007, 08:36 AM	#6
whodere Lord Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 1	Congradulations on thinking.... Lets seeeeee................... In EH you get materials to make your visit to MMIS EASIER!!!... Hmmmm.... But yet, any local [Removed for Content] with the optional Der Der Der hard helmet that can press the autoattack key can kill everything in the zone.. except mayong.... Yes... thats true progression... I got a better Idea... How about.. . that stupid [I cannot control my vocabulary] gnome in QH just give it away and we call it your weekly welfare check for being stupid... ....Signed.... Some Templar in the witness protection program from the Communist bastages called MIB.... Message Edited by whodere on 01-24-2007 07:53 PM

01-25-2007, 08:55 AM	#7
Gungo Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Crushbone Posts: 5,378	Agree i think most who saw it agree as well. What i would like to see is: (if on a global loot table) 2 scimitars- part of a dual wield set 2 peice sword and tower shield set 2 peice jewerly healer set- neck/waist 2 piece caster ring set- spell proc 2 peice bow/ammo bag set- a right clic ammo bag that summons 99 EH arrows 5 min reuse. (if on individual loot table) marr- 2 hander 110DR group aoe divine dam proc + 5% chance to atk frontal arc on auto atk tunare- round shield w 2% heal crit + 100 to heals quellious- robe w 10% deagro proc 24 sec duration 1.8 ppm + 50 mental dam innoruk- fabled symbol w power proc/ward spell cazic- 1 handed wand +5% spell haste rallos- 2 axes dual wield set (fighter only) stone skin and + 750 aoe hate on atk sol ro- cloak + 100 to spell damage 2% spell crit brell- somethign to tired right now

01-25-2007, 10:41 AM	#9
Gungo Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Crushbone Posts: 5,378	EH also gives an item that prevents mayongs delevel. So there are a few reasons why peopel think this. Furthermore each zone is designed by a different designer so while one may take longer then another it does not mean in progression that the longer one has to be harder. Think of cheldrak an instance mob that is harder then taranix but shorter fight. Obviously the designer who made the stake and the 6% aoe ment for the stakes to be used to make the kill posible. He just did not foresee spike damage abilites being as strong as they currently are in EoF. Manaburn, life burn, assasinte, etc. Message Edited by Gungo on 01-24-2007 09:41 PM

01-25-2007, 11:11 AM	#11
Judist Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 432	If you need a stake to do 3% damage to win, I dont know what to tell you bub. Edited to Add... And how do you know EH will have the best loot table? The upgraded items we've seen haven't been too impressive. Do you consider this impressive, and should come from the top raid zone? Definitly looks like a gearup piece to me... http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=items&message.id=90586#M90586 Message Edited by BeatinGuts on 01-24-2007 10:13 PM

01-25-2007, 11:44 AM	#13
Judist Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 432	Why would an item that comes from a harder zone, help you out in an easier zone. Maybe a dev will respond. Oh wait, didnt one already say that EH was the top raid zone after the NDA was lifted? Many say EH dosent drop that great. Well EH drops better than MMIS from what I've seen. I look at the big picture when it comes to progression. I cant see an ~8 hour raidzone to be the step "before" a zone that resembles a gearup zone should be. And a stake just dosent "do it" for me. If MM dropped the best of the best AND if Wolfsbane only came from raiding EH then I would think otherwise. These are just my opionions btw.

01-25-2007, 11:49 AM	#14
Dogm General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 239	Care to share the Dev post that says that EH was the end all raid zone? What about the bloom petal. It prevents Mayongs de-level. So an item that you get form killing the boss of EH, makes MIS easier. As has already been said, time in the zone means nothing. Cheldrak is harder then DT, yet takes only a few minutes. __________________

01-25-2007, 12:07 PM	#15
Judist Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 432	Were bouncing thread like crazy tonight. Hehe. Cheldrak is an Adventure pack mob. You got no AA tree from that pack, it had nothing to do with T7 progression. It was just an encounter to keep top-end guilds satisfied. On the other end of the spectrum, the x2 crab was there for the smaller guilds. The bloom petal, this prevents lag. If the devs fix the lag problem the de-level causes (a 5 second zonewide lag spike), anyone can once again complete this mob without it. Like the stakes, its nice to have but not necessary. Granted, EH makes MMIS even easier, but an 8 hour raidzone just to make a couple mobs in MMIS easier? Leave EH for the top-guilds who have that sorta time. Keep EH the #1 zone, because those who complete it SHOULD be the best and deserve ALOT for completing it. If MMIS becomes harder than EH you accomplished 2 tragedies. Taking EH away from the casual player due to length... and taking away MMIS to the casual player because EH is necessary. Thank god EH is currently not necessary. Message Edited by BeatinGuts on 01-24-2007 11:08 PM

01-25-2007, 12:21 PM	#16
Dogm General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 239	So Adventure packs dont count towards progression ? I guess HoS and Lyceum don't count either cause they where later additions. Have you even fought Mayong? Doesn't seem so, because the lag from his de-level is very minimal. It seems to all come down to time with you. EH takes too long and you cant give that kind of time, so you think that MMIS should be easier because you can spend 2 hours in there. I could care less if EH is harder then MMIS, but the looted items from EH shows that the intended progression was EH then MIS, if you can't see that, then you are blind. The reason many people where saying MIS needed to be beefed up, was not because it was easier then EH, but because it was too easy for what it was. The mobs where a joke, there was no strategy other then pull and DPS, with the exception of Tacticians armor which is easy to figure out after a pull or two, and the 2 orange vamps (which is why i said 2 pulls, once you wipe at 6% once you know what to do). __________________

01-25-2007, 12:34 PM	#17
Judist Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 432	but because it was too easy for what it was What is it? A zone that drops class armor thats a small upgrade over KoS gear. Hardly top-raid material... Who the hell wants the hardest zone or "end zone" for EoF to drop class specific gear? Its a gearup zone, the 3rd hardest but still gearup. And maybe your server dosent have zone-wide lag problems like other servers. If its not bad on your server then you can see how the de-level isnt hard to deal with. Maybe your lucky, but dont deny the fact MANY players were screaming for the lag fix since day 1. All of them knowing they could beat the guy without the 5 seconds of pure lag.

01-25-2007, 11:13 PM	#18
Gungo Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Crushbone Posts: 5,378	BeatinGuts wrote: Were bouncing thread like crazy tonight. Hehe. Cheldrak is an Adventure pack mob. You got no AA tree from that pack, it had nothing to do with T7 progression. It was just an encounter to keep top-end guilds satisfied. On the other end of the spectrum, the x2 crab was there for the smaller guilds. The bloom petal, this prevents lag. If the devs fix the lag problem the de-level causes (a 5 second zonewide lag spike), anyone can once again complete this mob without it. Like the stakes, its nice to have but not necessary. Granted, EH makes MMIS even easier, but an 8 hour raidzone just to make a couple mobs in MMIS easier? Leave EH for the top-guilds who have that sorta time. Keep EH the #1 zone, because those who complete it SHOULD be the best and deserve ALOT for completing it. If MMIS becomes harder than EH you accomplished 2 tragedies. Taking EH away from the casual player due to length... and taking away MMIS to the casual player because EH is necessary. Thank god EH is currently not necessary. Message Edited by BeatinGuts on 01-24-2007 11:08 PM If you seriously think the only reason the bloopetal is to prevent lag. You really need to wake up from that dellusional dream your in. Whether or not you beleive mmis should be easier then EH is not the point. I would agree But that is not the intent of the zone. The Devs never said publicly whether EH or MMIS is the harder zone. While some people may have heard personally from developers they intended MMIS to be harder. The fact is what happens, happens. No point [I cannot control my vocabulary]ing about it. MMIS was to easy. In fact there was no difficulty no real strategy it was boring... other then the loot you can acquire. The hardest part of the zone was the courtesans charm, which had nothing to do with the named. I know lab rats really didnt have time to fully test MMIS or EH in beta. We tested klaknon and FTH completely. And i think those scripts came out well and required some strategy. The most i was able to test was the trash in MMIS which agro'd on zone in and the first few named. The auto agro was fixed and the trash was made harder. The named needs this upgrade. Now Eh is long but not horribly so. The lag needs to be fixed on certain aoe's and the rumbler needs to be adjusted. I actually would rather they remove the whole random named concept and leave EVERY named up. I would also like for them to put in a raid save point in EH (but this will not happen). It may hurt me and my guild but i want MMIS to be harder then EH not counting the lag/bugged encounters. Personally i hope the orange vampire has his 6% timed aoe placed several times in his script. In other words place the aoe at 86%-80%. requiring burst dps to drop him to below 80% to avodi his aoe. Do this at 86%, 46%, and 6%. This will prevent the lifeburn, mana burn, assasinate dps issue from trivilizing the burst dps requiriment. I hope the yellow vampire aoe becomes a bit stronger and his adds a bit more problematic. Ideally 4 adds that can only be killed by certain archtypes so a fighter mob, scout mob, caster mob, healer mob who must all be killed in a certain time or their respective aoe hits the raid ala cheldrak but all the mobs at once. Have this occur every 45secs. I hope the gargoyle at the entrance activates the epic gargoyle statues in his room unless they are down. I also hope he has a add summoning x4 heroic mobs + root. The adds should have the nizara fireclaw proc 4k heat damage a tick for 3 ticks unless cured. This could occur at 85, 65, 45 and 25 and 5%. Tactician armour is fine it just needs to hit a bit harder if its not on a scout. Give him a 3 princes type proc if target doe snot equal a scout.

01-26-2007, 12:08 AM	#19
Dogm General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 239	BeatinGuts wrote: Who the hell wants the hardest zone or "end zone" for EoF to drop class specific gear? Its a gearup zone, the 3rd hardest but still gearup. Uhhh, EH drops set gear too. 3 of my pieces drop in EH and only 2 in MIS, so looks to me like I have more "gearing up" to do in EH. It all seems to come down to, you don't have the time for EH so you think MIS should be easy so you can farm loot, but what you dont understand is that EH is just as much a "gearup" zone as MIS if not more. __________________

01-26-2007, 06:29 AM	#20
Judist Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 432	Yea, I just love "farming" loot in raid zones where I have to kill named. Cuz farming on a 5day lockout is overpowered.... Lab trash is farming friend, dont go making it sound otherwise because it's not gonna work. There is nothing "evil" about running a raid once a week to get geared up. And EVERY gearup zone until now was cake walk, and YOU know it. Farming is a term players use to try and make a point, dosent work in this scenario. If you read most of my posts, I was pro-EH getting better loot. Because no "gearup" zone (as you claim EH is) has ever been 8 hours long. Are you crazy? Imagine if you will... Your in EH... your on hour six... you dropped another named... Woot!!! Wait a minute, he dropped the shoulders we got in MMIS!?! [I cannot control my vocabulary]!!! We dont have 2 dirges! All that time spent for a rott... Is that your idea of a gearup zone? If this stays as it is, who the heck will want to run EH 3-4 months from now if it drops class armor you get in MMIS? In 3-4 months your gonna see alot of wasted drops. This would eliminate EH completly as a worthwhile zone to gearup in. If you've read my posts you understand that EH loot was a BIG issue, and why its now getting revamped. Edited: My points are very basic and straightfoward. I hope your rebuttles are not just a grudge against me personally. If you really think about it, MMIS is a perfect gearup zone. Short, to the point, and less risky. EH is just way to long to use to gear up a raidforce. Thats factual. Spending 8 hours in EH for a drop you may already have from MMIS? Or just complete 4-5 other raidzones within the same time for much more loot. You call on whats considered on "gearing up" Message Edited by BeatinGuts on 01-25-2007 05:35 PM

01-26-2007, 07:02 AM	#21
Dogm General Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 239	It is clear you have never done EH. First off EH loot is not getting revamped, but some of it is getting upgraded. The difference is, the named will continue to drop the set gear, and have a chance at dropping one of these other items. Most of the good items, the ones that are getting upgraded, drop from random spawn named, that you may or may not see. Each floor has 1 guaranteed named, that drops set gear OMG, and can have several other random spawn named, some of which also drop set gear OMG. They will not drop the exact same pieces as the mobs in MIS, an example would be the Pally and SK shoulders drop in MIS, the Templar, inquisiter, conj, and necro shoulders drop in EH. So yes, eventually you will get set gear that will rot in EH, no loot upgrades will change that. __________________

01-26-2007, 07:35 AM	#22
Judist Loremaster Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 432	Whats the point being made? Everything you said was covered in this thread at one point or another?

01-26-2007, 09:37 AM	#23
Rezikai Loremaster Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 561	Just putting this out there.... http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=zones&message.id=25629#M25629 Lyndro doesnt say exactly which is which.. although somone just below him maks a progression list... i dont know how accurate... __________________

01-27-2007, 01:30 AM	#24
Gungo Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Crushbone Posts: 5,378	I actually posted that at the same time lyndro did his post without seeing his post. Furthermore i made that list based upon raiding in beta and the go-by list posted for EoF beta no names just intended progression by scott. Afterwards i was told mayong is suppose to be the final boss in EoF. There has never been a public post stating MMIS or EH is the final progression instnace zone and truly it does not matter right now. To be flat honest the reason i gave that list was specifically because of my raiding in beta. During beta i throughly tested Clockwork menance and FTH, and i spent ~3 attempts in MMIS and EH a peice. During that time MMIS was a true joke trash were weaker then the named. and EH had a ton of trash as it does now and the named were weak as well. A week or so before beta was finished MMIS trash was given specials and more hp(like charm). EH trash was upgraded as well and the named in EH was upgraded ALOT. EH turned out well except it was not fully tested. The lag issues didn't appear then. But MMIS didn't catch up to EH named. To paraphase what i just said. No list of progression was ever released. The list shown was the progression list by difficulty that i had seen in EOF beta. At the time i thought EH was suppose to be the final zone. I have since been told otherwise. But that list is basically the difficulty progression in EOF. Does it matter right now? not really. The ONLY true way to tell which is this expansions ENDBOSS is to finish this expansions QUESTLINE which begins LU31. If the questlines ends out requiring woushi killed then like darather and taranix before him woushi is this expansions endboss. IF this expansion questline requires killing mayong. Then mayong is the final expansion progressive boss. Now for lore junkies. Mayong in this expansion probably has the 2nd claymore wpn. (yes there are 2 swords).